Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XL: Bloated Rules

[Cheesegear]

Warhammer 40,000 in the Playground

I'm new to the hobby. How do I start?

Spoiler

Show

The best and most obvious way to start is either a) Dark Imperium, or b) Know No Fear. This will get you a solid and relatively cheap start on either an Adeptus Astartes* army, or a Death Guard army. If you aren't starting the game with a friend, you can almost always offload the 'other side' that you don't want to recoup some of your money back. If you don't want to play Adeptus Astartes or Death Guard, you will almost definitely want to look into Start Collecting! boxes - with a few exceptions.

*Due to how GW uses the same Astartes models across several different Codecies, an 'Astartes' army - in this context - could mean Blood Angels, Dark Angels, Space Marines, Space Wolves, and, at the very outside, you could even start a Deathwatch army with Dark Imperium or KNF. The models found in Dark Imperium/KNF, work best with Dark Angels or Space Marines. But, until you have a Codex (or even just Datacards), you don't have to make that decision.

However, just having the models, isn't really enough to play the game - you will need a rulebook. Dark Imperium comes with a rulebook, whilst Know No Fear, doesn't. That being said, Games Workshop offers the core rules to play the game on their website. So, if you can't afford a rulebook, and you just want to start playing the game with your friends, as long as you're matching Power Rating, you should be mostly okay...Mostly.

Also, you need dice. ~30 is a good number to have. Any excess dice you have can be used for wound counters, or to keep track of Command Points (if you don't know what those are yet, that's fine). But, just as a frame of reference, the Inceptors you get in Dark Imperium/KNF, they roll 18 dice to hit. Additionally, try and have different colours of dice. It will speed up your games.

Also, you'll need Terrain. If you don't have terrain on the board, the game vastly swings to playing a certain way, and all other units that don't play that way, are terrible... You don't want that. But we'll circle back to this.

Additional Resources that you will want:
- Battlescribe; Battlescribe is a free App for Mobile and PC (however, you can pay for it to remove ads). It's incredibly useful as it contains all the rules for all your units - including points costs. This greatly increases your ability to play the Matched Play version of 40K, as all's you need to do is plug the units you have, into the App, and you get given an army list complete with rules. However, do be aware that in the real world, when playing a real game, most people don't want to read rules from your phone - however, running it from a tablet, or printing it out, is almost always accepted. Battlescribe is for you, not for your opponents.

- [Faction] Datacards; If you don't have a Codex, well, Battlescribe doesn't have rules for Stratagems. Your Faction's Datacards provide all the rules you need to run your chosen Factions' Stratagems, while also including all the cards you need to play Maelstrom Missions. Maelstrom is currently the most commonly played format of the game. But, if your playgroup - otherwise known as your 'metagame', or 'meta' - doesn't play Maelstrom, at least you've got all your Stratagems.

- Open War cards; Open War is exceptionally useful for newer players as it gives you rules for Missions you can play, without having to buy the rulebook. Because of the random nature of the cards - like Maelstrom - you can have a variety of experiences depending on how the cards draw. The rules for Open War also allow for what happens when player has more Points or higher Power Rating than their opponent. Which can sometimes act as a balancing factor. However, those 'extra rules' can be very swingy depending on the units or army you have, so the better idea is to simply try and even out the points costs and ignore those rules.
While Open War cards aren't required to play the game (GW offers the Core Rules for free), they will give you a decent experience of the game until you can get your hands on the rulebook and/or the most current edition of Chapter Approved.

- Spin-down Dice; What? Okay, Magic: The Gathering (and others, but M:TG is the most obvious) produces spin-down d20s. These are d20s where the numbered sides are consecutively next to each other, which makes them incredibly useful as wound counters, Victory Point and Command Point trackers, additionally, they can't be accidentally picked up when you need more d6s to roll. They come in several different coloursm, just in case. GW themselves, sells 'Wound Trackers', but, they are in fact, just regular d10s.

...Points? ...Power Rating? What's the difference?

Spoiler

Show

Both units of measurement are ways of keeping the game balanced. If one player's army is vastly superior to their opponent's, that's not a very fair game, is it? If you think that you're just going to 'put down everything you have on the table', well, that might work for smaller games. But once you get larger collections, what you have, and what your opponent has, may be very different collections and just...No.

Power Rating; Power Rating is the easiest method to play the game. Your unit is always Rated the same, regardless of what wargear has. Whether your model has a Chainsword, or Thunder Hammer, still costs the same. This makes it incredibly easy to make army lists because you just put down your unit without regards to wargear. However, if everything costs the same, then the Good Stuff, costs exactly the same as the Bad Stuff, so why isn't everyone taking the Good Stuff all the time? Power Rating is incredibly abusable and all's it takes it a slight desire to start winning games and then the whole thing is ruined. Power Rating is also problematic because the way Games Workshop - allegedly - arrives at a unit's Power Rating makes no sense. Additionally, with the ebb and flow of the meta, with certain units becoming more conducive to winning games than others, no unit in the game's Power Rating has ever been changed.

Points; Points are exclusively found in your Factions' Codecies (and Battlescribe). The way this works, is that everything has a points cost - even wargear. This means that Bad Stuff costs less points, whilst Good Stuff, costs more points. So, if you - or your opponents - want to start winning games, they're even further limited in what they can take. This is vastly more fair than using Power Rating to decide how to build your army. Additionally, Games Workshop releases points cost changes a few times a year, so, depending on your Codex's age, the points in the back may well be totally redundant, and you're going to want to pick up the most recent edition of Chapter Approved, which GW releases annually. Which is the downside. In order to keep it fair, points need to keep being re-balanced.

So, what's a good start then?

Spoiler

Show

Dark Imperium; The Astartes side is 773 Points, with a Power Rating of 41. The Death Guard are 636 Points with a PR of 34.
Know No Fear; Astartes; 481 Points, PR 24. Death Guard; 456 Points, PR 25
(Using the most recent Codex for both Factions, and Chapter Approved 2018)

Know No Fear is a lot more fair. That being said, even in Dark Imperium, they are designed to be a start to an army, they are not an army, in and of themselves.

If you don't want Astartes or Death Guard, you're going to want to look at Start Collecting! with the following exceptions:
- Space Marines, Blood Angels and Primaris Space Wolves; The reason for this is easy. Know No Fear is cheaper, and better (and you can sell off the Death Guard half). The regular Space Wolves SC! box, is...Okay. If it doesn't have Primaris Marines and does have Thunderwolves, get that Space Wolf one.
- Craftworlds; A pile of Elite and Heavy units is not how you start a Craftworlds army. That being said, if your idea of Craftworlds, involves a bunch of <Wraith Construct> units (e.g; Craftworld Iyanden), then you should absolutely buy it. If it's want you want, get it.
- Orks; It's...Not great. While yes, it's a more legitimate start to an Ork army than Wraith-units to a Craftworlds army. It's just not a particularly good start.

Because the Start Collecting! boxes are not fixed models, their points costs and Power Rating is indeterminate at best, because some units are dual kits, and some units have a vast array of wargear available to them. Ask the Thread for optimal builds for particular kits or boxes.

Terrain - you mentioned it before. Talk about it, now.

Spoiler

Show

Terrain...Is good. It slows down Melee armies from destroying you on Turn 1 or 2, and it increases your defense against Shooting attacks so you don't automatically lose on Turn 1 against a gunline. Wargaming terrain is an extremely fun hobby project where you can find hundreds of tutorials online to scratch-build almost anything you want. If you want to be even more creative than that, you can even theme your terrain to your army!

A good rule of thumb is that anywhere between 33% and 50% of your table space should be covered in terrain.
- 4x4' (low point games): You'll want 6-8 pieces of terrain with a combined total of a 1.3 - 2 foot square.
- 6x4': You'll want 8-12 pieces of terrain, combining between 2'x4' and 2x6'.

Not only that, but you'll also want (trust us) terrain that fully blocks Line of Sight. That is, terrain that is a solid mass that you can't see through. Examples might include Buildings or Statues. Small boards want at least one, and large boards want at least two. It's also a good idea to create terrain that partially blocks Line of Sight. That is, some of the terrain, you can't see through, but other parts, you can. A good example of this might be a shelled-out Ruin. Where the foundations of the Building are intact, and thus, built like a wall. While the upper levels of the Building have been hit by explosive attacks like an air raid, and thus the walls are not so intact and you can see through them.

If your community has a gaming hub (such as a gaming store, or club), if those places are any good, they should have enough terrain for all of their gaming tables, and you don't really need to worry about this. If your local hub doesn't have enough terrain for its tables - or its terrain is just...Bad, and for example, doesn't block LoS - see if you can get involved in your community and organise a terrain building hobby day, or a challenge month or something, where terrain made is donated to the hub. More, better and diverse terrain in your hub benefits everybody, and your community manager should be on board for such an idea.

Obviously, you can simply just buy Games Workshop terrain. But then you kind of only get to use what they can sell you. If that's what you want, well, it's less work than making your own terrain, that's for sure.

While we're here, a 4x4' board is typically used for games below 1000 Points (or <50 PR), and a 6x4' board is anything bigger. The rulebook - if you have one - will tell you this.

I've heard about Conquest. What's that about?

Spoiler

Show

Well, first off, it's only available in select countries. If you happen to live in one of those countries...

Conquest Magazine is a subscription service with a total of 80 issues (4 per month). Over the course of almost two years, you will build up solid collections for Space Marines, Death Guard, and you will get a whole load of terrain. Additionally, the Magazine itself, comes with Missions, paints and paint brushes and will literally help you build up your hobby at a reasonable pace without overwhelming you.

Conquest is great for people with limited time and limited funds, but who still want to get into the hobby. The main issues with Conquest is that the models you get are fixed - so here's hoping you like Astartes and/or Death Guard - and that it takes almost two years to finish. So if you're looking to dive right into the hobby, and start playing lots of games within six months with a strong, personalised army...Then Conquest probably isn't for you.

On a personal note, if Conquest had been a Thing when I was a University student, I absolutely would have bought into it.

This is so expensive!

Spoiler

Show

So is buying a gaming console, and a game every month. So is buying a bunch of power tools, buying wood and learning home carpentry. Warhammer is a hobby, same as anything else. If you want to spend a little bit of money, you can. There are game modes where GW attempts to tell you that you don't need to spend a lot of money (but in actual fact you do, if you want to be good at it). If you want to spend a lot of money on the hobby, you can do that, too.

It's not called 'plastic crack' for nothing, and it doesn't make significant others mad for no reason.

Most independent gaming stores will sell GW products at -20%, and of course there's 'Battlescribe & Datacards = A Codex'. But, additionally, you can search internet to see if people are selling their models at a decent price. There are very affordable - and mostly safe - ways to strip paint from models if you see a bad paint job on models you want. That being said, the reason people most often sell their models is 'cause they aren't any good on the table. While that isn't the case all the time, it is the case...A lot. If you see a good deal, just make sure that they're models you actually want.

Wait...So you weren't kidding, there actually is 'Bad Stuff' in the game?

Spoiler

Show

Unfortunately...Yes. The good news is, what's bad or good, depends on your meta. It's always useful to check out what other players are playing, and build to your meta.

Build to my meta?

Spoiler

Show

What works for someone on the other side of the world, or Hell, just 200kms north of you, might not work for you, because their local meta, is different to yours. The only person who truly knows what you need to buy for your army, is you, and you only learn that, by talking and engaging with your other local players. Of course, you can build to the meta, and run some or all of the best units in the game. But, if your meta is even slightly reasonable, there's a good chance that you don't need - or probably even want - to run the best units in the game because your opponents don't play their armies that way.
...But, of course, they might, too.

So what am I here for?

Spoiler

Show

Other perspectives and opinions. A lot of people play the game a certain way that they enjoy - it's a hobby, after all. That means that even if you talk to people in your meta, the advice you get given will only be relevant to their skill ceiling and knowledge base. If no-one in your meta plays Necrons, it's probably fair to say that not many people in your meta have experience playing with or against Necrons, and thus, their advice will be limited. There's a chance that you could ask everyone in your meta for advice, and get no helpful directions.

It's also pretty fair that if you ask your opponents how to beat them, they're not going to tell you - why would they? It's also pretty fair that if you're asking your local store manager how to build an army, that your manager will make recommendations that end up with you spending the most money possible. It's a ****ty thing to do, but it is realistic.

Mostly, the internet is for looking for competitive advice. If you are looking to win games, the internet will tell you how. Mostly, the internet will talk about the meta. That is, objectively, there are units in the game that are more suited to playing to the win conditions of the game, than other units. Internet discussion usually revolves around either taking those units, or taking units that counter those units, sometimes with a third 'meta-buster' build that is reasonably good against the unit and counter-unit.

Now, if your meta, doesn't have people running those units, then talking about the meta, only goes so far. However, even taking 'sub-optimal' units, can still win games. A unit that's rated 8/10 is still pretty good, even if it's not 'the best' and will still cause problems given the chance.

If you're having fun, playing what you want to play...Then talk about that.

So can I take sub-optimal units that I like the look of, and still win games?

Spoiler

Show

That's the elephant in the room...And the answer, at best, is only 'Maybe.'

If having fun and doing hobby is what you care about, no-one can tell you how to have fun. No-one can tell you not to have fun - especially if you don't know them 'cause they're some dude on the internet and who cares what they think anyway? If you're having fun doing whatever it is you're doing, then you keep doing it. If, by some miracle, you're winning games while also taking like, units rated 5/10, 4/10 or worse, then who cares? You're playing with models you want, and you're winning games. Keep doing exactly what you're doing.

If the units or models you like are Not Good, and potentially contributing to you losing every game - and that matters to you. Well, that sucks. The units you like, are bad, they don't perform, and you have to buy new models. What you have doesn't work, you should probably replace it. Or, at the very least start cutting up the models you do have and start giving them new wargear. Everyone understands that this feeling sucks, and it sucks even harder that you've potentially wasted a lot of money. That's why making sure you know what you want to buy, before you buy it, is so important. That being said, GW can just nerf what you like into the ground and then what do you do?

At the end of the day, the important point you should know is that 'I want to have fun,' and 'I want to have fun...And win games,' are quite often different conversations.

So, are some Factions are better overall than others?

Spoiler

Show

As previously mentioned, some units are more or less suited to winning games than other units. The more of these units a Faction has, the better or worse they are at winning games. So, unfortunately, the answer is 'Yes.' While it's certainly possible to win games with any Faction in the game, your ability to win games is dependent on what your opponents are running (i.e; Go back to your meta, see what people are running and how they play). If your meta is full of people who are playing cutting edge, top of the meta lists, there's a pretty good chance that you wont be able to just put down any unit you like and still have a good game...And that sucks.

But, for better or worse, Games Workshop has both officially and unofficially-by-game design stated that allied Factions are an intended part of the game, and that they're not going anywhere:
1. This means that they don't have to write 'complete' Factions that can do everything, all the time, because you - a player/consumer - can plug the holes in your preferred Faction's tactics by adding another Faction that is good at it. This makes game design very forgiving on GW's end, especially for Imperium and Chaos factions.
2. As a business, they sell you a more diverse range of models, so that certain kits don't just stay on the shelf forever and lose money by existing.

If you don't want to include a second or even third Faction in your army (not least in part 'cause it requires spending more money), that's a choice you are fully allowed to make. But, if there's a choice in another Faction that does do what you need a unit to be able to do, and you are choosing not to take it, well...What can be said?

I can't paint.

Spoiler

Show

Like any skill worth having, you get better if you practice. 90% of a good paint job is just brush control - how much paint you put on your brush and where you put it. The other 10% is just colour theory (yeah, it's a thing). The most important tool this author has is a $5 Colour Wheel.

Wraith has put together how you can go about Painting your army without losing your mind.

WarhammerTV (YouTube) has several beginner guides on how to paint almost any model that GW sells. Also, as mentioned, Conquest Magazine is excellent if you want to learn how to paint Ultramarines and/or Death Guard and/or a bunch of GW's terrain features. Other than that, other YouTube channels also do painting tutorials, there are a whole bunch of blogs that also occasionally talk about how they painted their models. If you want to learn how to paint something specific, there's almost definitely a guide for it, somewhere.

If you want to get better at painting, full stop:
a) Make sure you have different sized paint brushes for different tasks - not every brush is useful, all the time.
b) Develop your fine motor skills. It takes practice. You wont be good at it for a while. Don't worry about bad paint jobs. When you get better, just strip them.

GW also has a Contrast Paint range, which is very helpful for getting people who don't want to paint, to paint. If painting for you is too hard, or too time-consuming, then make sure to look those up. Though, there are a number of stories where at the higher end of the painting scale, when you start getting good, Contrast Paints don't actually save you time, and are harder to use than normal paints (e.g; Once you learn drybrushing, it is both quicker and easier than Contrast).

Here are a number of Guides put together by the GitP 40K Community...

Helpful Army Building Guides

Spoiler

Show

9th Ed. is coming. All of these will be out of date.
Adeptus Custodes Out of date
Adeptus Mechanicus Out of date
Astra Militarum by LeSwordfish Out of date
Chaos Space Marines by LeSwordfish Out of date
Craftworlds by Forum Explorer Out of date
Dark Angels Out of date
Death Guard by LeSwordfish Out of date
Deathwatch Out of date
Drukhari by Gauntlet Out of date
Grey Knights Out of date
Necrons by Requizen Out of date
Space Marines Part I - Part II Very Out of Date and Bad.
Thousand Sons by Wraith Out of date

Index: Inquisition (White Dwarf, Nov '19) Out of date
Index: Officio Assassinorum (White Dwarf, Mar '19) Out of date
Index: Sisters of Silence (White Dwarf, Oct '19) Out of date

Previous conversations to search through...

Previous Threads

Spoiler

Show

* Warhammer 40K Tactics
* II: Tactics for the Tactics God
* III: Hats for the Hat Throne
* IV: The Enemy of Your Enemy is Still Your Enemy.
* V: Everyone Is On Fire. Some Moreso Than Others.
* VI: Chaos Bringing Eternal Darkness? I brought my flashlight.
* VII: Common Sense is not RAW.
* VIII: You're Gonna have To Face It, You're Addicted To Maths
* IX: "Mech Is King? I Never Voted For It!"
* X: "Everybody expects the Inquisition!"
* XI: "More Threads than your Tactical Squad has Room for!"
* XII: "Now in Rapid Fire range!"
* XIII: "Ironclads, Furiosos and Soul Grinders, oh my!"
* XIV: "Pray for 6s!"
* XV: "More People Should Be Punched In The Head."
* XV: "Terminator? I hardly know 'er!"
* XVII: "Tyranids Don't Have Friends."
* XVIII: "Fortune Favours the Careless!"
* XIX: Understand the Gravity of the Situation
* XX: Barrage is the new Precision Shot
* XXI: Preferred Enemy (Dice)
* XXII: I C'Tan Has Cheese?
* XXIII: I Do Not Like Green Tides and 'Hann
* XXIV: ...And They Shall Know No Fluff.
* XXV: Friends Are Better Than Wraithknights
* XXVI: Frequently Asked, Frequently Ignored
* XXVII: Tyranids Finally Found a Friend
* XXVIII: Drasius Can't Have Nice Things
* XXIX: Ro, Ro, Ro Your Boute
* XXX: Imperium After Dark
* XXXI: Haters Gonna Burn
* XXXII: I Got 99 Guardsmen and Morale Killed One
* XXXIII: Only in Nerf Does Duty End
* XXXIV: Situation Normal, All FAQ'd Up
* XXXV: 4 Pages of Rules, 46 Pages of Pointless Bickering
* XXXVI: If it Ain't Broke, Nerf It
* XXXVII: Highlighting the Contrasts
* XXXVIII: toy soldiers r srs bsns
* XXXIX: Miracle on 39th Thread

Here's a bunch of Battle Reports for you to read. Plenty of army lists in there.

[Cheesegear]

Previously in the Eternal Darkness...

• 9th Ed. hasn't fixed anything and will be bad.
• 9th Ed. has added a bunch of new rules and will be great.

...We now return you to the Darkness.

[Forum Explorer]

So Aircraft is next. I'm hearing persistent rumors that aircraft will no longer block movement in any way. So will we be able to go on top of the bases of enemy flyers?

[Blackhawk748]

I get why it's 18 wounds, since that's how many Morty and Magnus have. Hurts for the Triumph of Saint Katherine though.

The Triumph is considered Titanic? But it's like 8 Battle Sisters. Walking.

Why isn't this just a Keyword?

[Forum Explorer]

The Triumph is considered Titanic? But it's like 8 Battle Sisters. Walking.

Why isn't this just a Keyword?

Since they went off wound count instead of Keyword the Triumph gets shafted.

[LansXero]

Since they went off wound count instead of Keyword the Triumph gets shafted.

Wonder if it also hits not!Katakros when he comes out.

[Forum Explorer]

Wonder if it also hits not!Katakros when he comes out.

...Who?

[Cheesegear]

...Who?

He means The Silent King. Who is almost guaranteed to look like Katakros from AOS. In the same way that the new C'Tan is obviously a CAD-paste of the Celestant Prime.

[Brookshw]

Oooh, I won a thread title. That's 1 victory point in campaign mode, right?

[Lord Torath]

ION: I'm going to hospital for a few days.

Hope things go well for you!

[LansXero]

He means The Silent King. Who is almost guaranteed to look like Katakros from AOS. In the same way that the new C'Tan is obviously a CAD-paste of the Celestant Prime.

He has a feel that he can be a Triumph-like model, as in, technically infantry but with a boatload of wounds due to his shield thingies

[Forum Explorer]

He means The Silent King. Who is almost guaranteed to look like Katakros from AOS. In the same way that the new C'Tan is obviously a CAD-paste of the Celestant Prime.

Ok. Well I don't think the Silent King is going to be infantry. But I do expect him to be around 18 wounds so I guess he would be hit by the rule as well.

[Turalisj]

I think those of us who like the idea of Crusade have a vastly different group than those who don't.

[Avaris]

He means The Silent King. Who is almost guaranteed to look like Katakros from AOS. In the same way that the new C'Tan is obviously a CAD-paste of the Celestant Prime.

I mean, we’ve seen the model (https://www.warhammer-community.com/...3No8Dh0bD9.jpg) , and it looks quite different from Katakros to me. As for the C’tan, I can see where you’re coming from, but only in the sense that it’s a model hovering over a circle of stuff holding it up. It’s almost as if that’s a good way to make a cool floating model! The actual sculpt looks very different, so calling it CAD-paste just seems very cynical and dismissive: like, MAYBE it used the CP armature right at the start of the process, being something they know works, but so what?

Back on terrain, it’s a little difficult to assess without knowing for sure if TLoS isstill the default. I get the impression it is, given that Armoured Containers are not listed as Obscuring. So the order of operations for determining if you can shoot a model goes (1) can you see it with TLoS? (2) if yes, check if thereis any obscuring terrain that shot would pass over. So if you have astack of armoured containers a knight could still hide behind them if they were tall and wide enough, but if anything is peeking over the edge you can shoot as normal.

Overall, I like the introduction of Obscuring as a principle, but it will take a bit of getting used to.

[LeSwordfish]

He means The Silent King. Who is almost guaranteed to look like Katakros from AOS. In the same way that the new C'Tan is obviously a CAD-paste of the Celestant Prime.

Once again, you're making up things about CAD.

[Blackhawk748]

Since they went off wound count instead of Keyword the Triumph gets shafted.

I honestly can't figure out why they didn't make it a Keyword. Like, what purpose does it serve to just say "model with 18+ wounds X" instead of making a Keyword and putting it in there properly? Becuase if they have any brains, the Triumph will get an exclusion and hats just wasted space.

[Cheesegear]

I honestly can't figure out why they didn't make it a Keyword. Like, what purpose does it serve to just say "model with 18+ wounds X" instead of making a Keyword and putting it in there properly? Becuase if they have any brains, the Triumph will get an exclusion and hats just wasted space.

It feels very Characters with 10+ wounds can be shot at. It has nothing to do with Keywords and everything to do with general game balance. As larger models are typically better models, regardless of what Keywords they do or don't have.

[Wraith]

I honestly can't figure out why they didn't make it a Keyword. Like, what purpose does it serve to just say "model with 18+ wounds X" instead of making a Keyword and putting it in there properly? Becuase if they have any brains, the Triumph will get an exclusion and hats just wasted space.

I honestly suspect it's because they have hobbled themselves with the marketing ploy of "you can still use your codices from last edition".

If they introduce a new <KEYWORD> then they would HAVE to include it in the profiles of existing units in order to ensure consistency between armies. The only way that they could do this would be by either rewriting codex entries and thus requiring new codices, or by publishing another pile of warscrolls like they did at the start of 8th edition and declaring them to take precedent... Which means your codex is now obsolete.

A broad-strokes approach printed in the new MRB means you only need to buy one new book, no matter how badly it hamstrings the game in the process. They fulfill their promise, at the price of making the game convenient and consistent.

[Avaris]

I honestly suspect it's because they have hobbled themselves with the marketing ploy of "you can still use your codices from last edition".

If they introduce a new <KEYWORD> then they would HAVE to include it in the profiles of existing units in order to ensure consistency between armies. The only way that they could do this would be by either rewriting codex entries and thus requiring new codices, or by publishing another pile of warscrolls like they did at the start of 8th edition and declaring them to take precedent... Which means your codex is now obsolete.

A broad-strokes approach printed in the new MRB means you only need to buy one new book, no matter how badly it hamstrings the game in the process. They fulfill their promise, at the price of making the game convenient and consistent.

This is demonstrably a thing they are willing to do though? the new rulebook is going to have a list with all the weapons with ‘Blast’ in an appendix, they could have easily done the same with a new keyword.

[Wraith]

This is demonstrably a thing they are willing to do though? the new rulebook is going to have a list with all the weapons with ‘Blast’ in an appendix, they could have easily done the same with a new keyword.

What can I say? GW are at least consistently inconsistent.

A list of units in the 9e/MRB would be fine. They're not doing that as far as we know, and instead are either introducing a rule that as a blanket will be bad for some armies, or they are otherwise going to have to print retractions for units that do fall under the rule but shouldn't.

Either what we've heard about the rule is wrong, or GW are applying a bad rule in a worse way (And not for the first time.)

[Cheesegear]

What can I say? GW are at least consistently inconsistent.

Either what we've heard about the rule is wrong, or GW are applying a bad rule in a worse way (And not for the first time.)

I lol'd pretty hard.
Posted from phone (the hospital).

[Don Qui Ho Tep]

Anyone else getting a little excited for the War of the Spider? Again, it would have been great if all the CSM upgrades came in a single supplement, but it looks like we're getting some opportunities to be creative. If we end up getting custom chapter tactics (which we might get based on the preview, it looks like there are a few different Legion Traits that can be taken) I'll probably have to pick it up. Now that renegade primaris are official with the Brazen Beasts (part of the dang Black Legion no less!), I'd love to pick up some Intercessors and gribblify them.

Back in 4th and 5th I would always run Fabius with a squad of augmented marines. Now you get a whole detachment. I'm into it.

[Blackhawk748]

It feels very Characters with 10+ wounds can be shot at. It has nothing to do with Keywords and everything to do with general game balance. As larger models are typically better models, regardless of what Keywords they do or don't have.

This is true, but the rule seems to only really make sense for Big Stuff, like Magnus, Mortaion and Knights

The Triumph is literally a box being carried around by Sisters

Obviously this could just them not being terribly informative or the Triumph will have errata at launch giving it a unique rule to avoid this. I don't honestly know which is more likely cuz it's GW

[Renegade Paladin]

Today's preview was Aircraft. Okay cool, whatever, but the article also confirms that Strategic Reserves are going to be a thing for more than just Aircraft leaving the board, though they didn't detail how it will work.

[Brookshw]

Today's preview was Aircraft. Okay cool, whatever, but the article also confirms that Strategic Reserves are going to be a thing for more than just Aircraft leaving the board, though they didn't detail how it will work.

New Keyword, didn't we just talk about them adding keywords?

Kind of annoyed Nid fliers didn't make the cut.

[Renegade Paladin]

New Keyword, didn't we just talk about them adding keywords?

Kind of annoyed Nid fliers didn't make the cut.

From how they describe it, being Aircraft really makes it hard to be in assault. Tyranid flyers might not like it if they did. The Heldrake didn't make the cut either.

Also, this is far from the first time they've added keywords/the equivalent thereof to units in existing codices in errata and then made the armies wait years for a new codex. It happened to Valkyries in the switch to 6th edition.

[Brookshw]

From how they describe it, being Aircraft really makes it hard to be in assault. Tyranid flyers might not like it if they did.

Who knows, they've been pretty worthless in 8th and I was hoping they might become okay in 9th. Seems like they won't change, #youcanuseyouroldcodex.

[Cheesegear]

In 'What's in the Box' news (spoiler alert, it's not Gwen's head);

Yeah...The pics were leaked ages ago.
Space Marine players very clearly get shafted as it's arguably one of the worst 'starter boxes' I've ever seen. You could argue that that the Assault Intercessors can be made as two units of five, but they definitely aren't painted that way. Any Space Marine player 'going halves' in the box, is getting screwed. My guess is that this is why Know No Fear isn't going away. It's too good a box to get rid of. If I played Space Marines, I'd be pretty mad right about now...

The Necrons look great. It feels far more like a a new Necron box, and that the Space Marines just shouldn't be in it.
Isn't that what they did for Sisters? Yeah. They should've done that. Just make it a Necron box.

The price tag is almost assuredly too stupid for words, and I don't think GW-in-Australia is going to sell many boxes. Actually, they'll probably sell a lot...Just not at retail price.

[LeSwordfish]

More details at this link.

Worth noting that:

• It's coming out in July.
• It's not a starter set, it's a "launch box" - so no dice or tape measure, and it won't be around forever.
• It's all push fit.
• The models look to be sensibly separated onto sprues - two sprues of intercessors, one sprue of bladeguard, etc etc - so maybe they'll all be available seperately.
• It's a "more than 50% saving" which probably means it'll be a little more expensive - apparently the contest to win one lists the value of the prize as £125 (£25 more than Dark Imperium), so probably that.

I'm very tempted by it - I like the Eradicators (Gravis-armored with long range meltaguns) and intercessors, might keep the bikes and characters just in case, and could flog the rest.

[Cheesegear]

I'm very tempted by it - I like the Eradicators (Gravis-armored with long range meltaguns) and intercessors, might keep the bikes and characters just in case, and could flog the rest.

I will wait a few months until they come out on sprues. I have no interest in buying the box as-is. Maybe I'll pick up the Eradicators when someone inevitably splits the box 'cause they can't get a return on it.