Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XL: Bloated Rules

[Drasius]

Legion dice going to be available via forgeworld again if that's your jam.

[Cheesegear]

Legion dice going to be available via forgeworld again if that's your jam.

I would've loved some:
If Australia wasn't in recession,
If I was able to play more regularly,
If this was 7 years ago and dunking on scrubs by having using 'exclusive/limited' products was something I still did.
...If I didn't already buy custom dice from a dice-maker years ago.

You know...The usual.

[xroads]

What is the next AdMech unit I should consider?

I'm currently assembling the Adeptus Mechanicus Start Collecting kit with the idea of taking the Martians on combat patrol against some Tau scum. But it looks like I'll still have roughly a 200 point gap before I reach the 500 point cap (assuming minimal war gear changes).

Does anyone have any thoughts on what I should get to supplement the kit? Right now I'm leaning toward some Breachers or Destroyers. But I do have a soft spot for Serberys.

[Mystic Muse]

Legion dice going to be available via forgeworld again if that's your jam.

Oh, thank you for letting me know! I'll probably pick up the Death Guard ones, and one other.

Also let my friends know. I think one will pick up the Space Corgi ones, another the Emperor's Children or White Scars, another Alpha Legion, and the last Thousand Sons.

[Blackhawk748]

What is the next AdMech unit I should consider?

I'm currently assembling the Adeptus Mechanicus Start Collecting kit with the idea of taking the Martians on combat patrol against some Tau scum. But it looks like I'll still have roughly a 200 point gap before I reach the 500 point cap (assuming minimal war gear changes).

Does anyone have any thoughts on what I should get to supplement the kit? Right now I'm leaning toward some Breachers or Destroyers. But I do have a soft spot for Serberys.

Kastellan Robot Maniple. You will use them at all points levels and I doubt 9th ed will make them suck.

[Cheesegear]

Does anyone have any thoughts on what I should get to supplement the kit?

Obviously, you want to avoid actually buying anything like the plague if you aren't playing Space Marines or Necrons...But, if assuming that that's not the case,

It's Combat Patrol, you're skewing heavily towards - no, heavily - towards "Cheaper = Better".
I forgot which is which, but you're really going to want to pick up some Infiltrators or Ruststalkers. For the life of me I can't remember which is the good one, and which one is total trash. But it's one of 'em!

Kastellan Robot Maniple. You will use them at all points levels and I doubt 9th ed will make them suck.

Tech-Priest Enginseer - 35 Points

Skitarii Rangers (x9); - 81 Points

Kastelan Robots (x2); Incendium Combustors (x2), Fists (x2) - 230 Points
Skorpius Disintegrator; Belleros Energy Cannon, Cognis Heavy Stubbers (x3), Disruptor Missile Launcher, Broad-Spectrum Data-Tether - 150 Points

Total: 496 Points

Yeah. That works. Don't like running Robots without the Datasmith. But it works.

[xroads]

Kastellan Robot Maniple. You will use them at all points levels and I doubt 9th ed will make them suck.

I got to admit, the Kastellan's had crossed my mind. They're one of the reasons I chose to play AdMech.

However, Cheesegear has a point. I'd had have to run it lite and without a Datasmith.

Still, it does have it's appeal...

[Blackhawk748]

I got to admit, the Kastellan's had crossed my mind. They're one of the reasons I chose to play AdMech.

However, Cheesegear has a point. I'd had have to run it lite and without a Datasmith.

Still, it does have it's appeal...

Honestly? At that point level you don't really need the Datasmith. Yes you want it, but those Robots are so durable normally at low points they will be difficult to shift

I say go for it

[druid91]

Robots are fairly expensive points wise. Good but also not the greatest especially since you've already got heavy damage via the disintegrator.

You can fit two squads of sterylizors in the same points hole. Or two 5-man units of SulphurHounds Though the main downside to those is expense in money. Robots is one box. Sterylizors is two. And two 5-man Serberys Sulphurhounds is 4 boxes.

[JNAProductions]

Idle modeling question.

How would you make quadrupedal Marines? Chaos or Loyalist, doesn't really matter. Though more fitting for Chaos.

[Grim Portent]

Idle modeling question.

How would you make quadrupedal Marines? Chaos or Loyalist, doesn't really matter. Though more fitting for Chaos.

One option would be to remove the legs and replace them with chaos spawn tentacles, or tyranid scything talons or something, with a corresponding pair for the arms. Getting the heads to look anything close to correct would require altering the back/backpack a lot though, unless you gave it an upwards angled pose.

Another option would be to make them knucklewalkers, which would just require finding reasonably proportioned arms that can be posed such that the marine can adopt an apelike pose.

[JNAProductions]

One option would be to remove the legs and replace them with chaos spawn tentacles, or tyranid scything talons or something, with a corresponding pair for the arms. Getting the heads to look anything close to correct would require altering the back/backpack a lot though, unless you gave it an upwards angled pose.

Another option would be to make them knucklewalkers, which would just require finding reasonably proportioned arms that can be posed such that the marine can adopt an apelike pose.

I'm looking more centaur than ape.

But thanks for the advice!

[Grim Portent]

I'm looking more centaur than ape.

But thanks for the advice!

Ah, when you said Quadruped I assumed you wanted to keep four limbs rather than being a tauric being.

Well the simple thing is to find a cavalry miniature in about the right size and graft the marine torso on the neck joint then cover up the area with sculpted armour, fur, cloth and ammo pouches and grenades. GW horses tend towards being freaking huge, but stuff like Perry Miniatures scale cavalry and similar miniature lines are more reasonable for the purpose. Victrix cavalry might work too.*

For a more cybernetic-centaur look something could probably be crafted from Admech assassin bits.

The melusai from AoS are something I've seen with chaos marine upper bodies quite a bit, though snake tail for legs is not exactly a tauric look.


*The way I can think of making a centaur marine this way requires quite a bit of work, but outside finding someone selling centauroid lower bodies for marines there's no easy way.

Firstly it's nearly impossible to find a good quality horse model with no saddle, so you need to file off or cover up the saddle. In practice this is going to mean filing off the saddle and putting something over the area to hide the file marks. Saddlebags, armour plates, a coat of some kind, there's a few things that would be appropriate to cover the area depending on the intended theme.

The front of the human torso to horse neck join area will generally benefit from something to hide the transition, a gut plate with a tabard, drape or loincloth hanging underneath or around the plate is a good way.

The big problem with centaurs from a sci-fi aesthetic perspective is that making a horse look like it matches power armour is difficult, most models don't have much room to spare for stuff to be added around the limbs/torso by way of armour, so the horse part is generally going to look much less geared up than the human part.

EDIT: Within GW models the chaos marauder horses are probably the easiest ones to work with, at least for chaos themed conversions since all that needs to come off is the saddle, and they're smaller than most other horses in the range.

[Adrastos42]

Idle modeling question.

How would you make quadrupedal Marines? Chaos or Loyalist, doesn't really matter. Though more fitting for Chaos.

This gave me a flashback to this thing I remember seeing years ago:

https://storage.googleapis.com/spike...32298719_n.jpg

Sadly, a quick look doesn't find any original source for it so there's no explanation or better pictures, but it might give you some ideas?

[Killer Angel]

I got to admit, the Kastellan's had crossed my mind. They're one of the reasons I chose to play AdMech.

However, Cheesegear has a point. I'd had have to run it lite and without a Datasmith.

With their basic setting, they'll have 2+/4++, which is pretty strong. And if there's need, you can always use the stratagem to set them as you like.

[Blackhawk748]

And two 5-man Serberys Sulphurhounds is 4 boxes.

Excuse me... what?

[druid91]

Excuse me... what?

Each Box of Serberys is 3 models. For a five man unit, you need two boxes. For two five man units, you need four.

[Blackhawk748]

Each Box of Serberys is 3 models. For a five man unit, you need two boxes. For two five man units, you need four.

I wasn't gonna buy them before because I didn't think they matched the rest of the army, but I ain't gonna buy them now because that is just absurd.

[Forum Explorer]

I wasn't gonna buy them before because I didn't think they matched the rest of the army, but I ain't gonna buy them now because that is just absurd.

Not really. It's pretty common for bikers to come in dividends of 3. Like Shining Spears. You get them in boxes of three. Minimum squad size? 3.

In fact, you can't actually have 10 Sulpherhounds in a squad. Their squad size is 3-9.

[Blackhawk748]

Not really. It's pretty common for bikers to come in dividends of 3. Like Shining Spears. You get them in boxes of three. Minimum squad size? 3.

In fact, you can't actually have 10 Sulpherhounds in a squad. Their squad size is 3-9.

Ah, see, I was counting them like Rough Riders, you know, cavalry. Cuz that's what they are. And cavalry came in 5s.

Silly me.

[Forum Explorer]

Ah, see, I was counting them like Rough Riders, you know, cavalry. Cuz that's what they are. And cavalry came in 5s.

Silly me.

I don't know why you would, they are an infantry guy riding a 1-person machine. Sounds like a biker to me.

[Blackhawk748]

I don't know why you would, they are an infantry guy riding a 1-person machine. Sounds like a biker to me.

And we don't have cavalry in 40k!

Spoiler: *cough*

Show

[Renegade Paladin]

Yeah, but Thunderwolves come three to a box as well.

[Cheesegear]

Once again having a discussion about how 9e isn't worth playing (right now). And, in 8th Ed., I said Math-Hammer was super-reliable. However, in 9th Ed., that's even more the case because top-of-turn scoring means you have to wreck your opponent, hard, to stop them from scoring, because Durability Scores Points. It's not simply enough to move onto an Objective, you have to also stay there through your opponent's turn (hence why Secondaries are the real Primary Objectives, they're way easier).

"Yeah, but units do other things! So Math-Hammer isn't real."
...Kind of.

I said a while back, that if Firstborn move to two Wounds, what's the difference between Primaris Marines and Firstborn, if they're essentially the same? Most units don't do anything, except Shoot and Fight, and get Shot and Fought at.

So, because I live and breathe Space Marines, let's see here:

Librarians; Powers are too varied to discuss points value accurately, without also discussing the army it's a part of.
Techmarines; Repairing Vehicles is as good as the Vehicle being Repaired, and for how many turns.
Apothecaries; Same as Techmarines, but for Infantry.

Phobos Captains and Infiltrators; Omni-Scramblers sometimes do a thing, depending on what your opponent is running, and depending on what they were going to do with their Reserves.
<Phobos> units and Scouts; Concealed Positions is good for board control (goes double for Captains and Infiltrators, because of the aforementioned Omni-Scramblers). But, since Primaries can't be scored on Turn 1, I've gone over the limited effectiveness of Concealed Positions before. It doesn't actually help that much. Maybe you'd be better off with something that's simply just faster and more durable (e.g; Land Speeders, Invader ATVs, etc.)?

Is that it?
Huh.
If I remove those units from my Spreadsheets, where their points cost doesn't necessarily reflect points value. Math-hammer seems pretty accurate. Then I simply use my brain that I have, and work out value judgement based on what I know about the game, and whether increased cost is 'worth' what's being shown (e.g; Infiltrators [Concealed Postions & Omni-Scramblers] are good. But only exactly one unit...Of minimum size...And even that, is replaceable by a Phobos Captain...As a Captain, hands out re-roll 1s [see; Math-Hammer] and provides a mandatory HQ slot).

Maybe that's why it's so easy to build a good Space Marine army, because the points cost and points value, for every unit in the Codex - except the above - is the same. So you just read your Codex and pick out units with better numbers, and you'll get a good army. Easy.

I don't believe most Codecies are more complicated than that. Most units in the game, don't actually do anything*, except what's on the tin.

*Remember kids, a game's Win Conditions determine how the game is played.

[LansXero]

(hence why Secondaries are the real Primary Objectives, they're way easier).

shocking revelation. And by that I mean welcome to 6 weeks ago when it was obvious.

[Cheesegear]

shocking revelation. And by that I mean welcome to 6 weeks ago when it was obvious.

I mean, it's not news. Even places known for 'positive reviews for access' couldn't help but point out Mission designs were poorly designed before Day 1.

How's Crusade working out for everyone?

[Forum Explorer]

I mean, it's not news. Even places known for 'positive reviews for access' couldn't help but point out Mission designs were poorly designed before Day 1.

How's Crusade working out for everyone?

Has anyone even had a chance to try it? I'd love to, but no one in my community actually wants to play right now, for all that restrictions have lifted enough to allow us to do so.

[Wraith]

I've heard several people say that it looks good and that they really want to try it, which is more than I can say for 30k or Aeronautica Imperialis.

I'm not sure if the deafening silence that follows means that they tried it and it was so bad as to be shameful to mention, or if they just don't like the look of it enough to go out of their way to actually play it. I suspect the latter, which is somewhat damning in and of itself.

[LeSwordfish]

In fairness, for a lot of people "out of their way" means a lot further than it did before. Especially for the more casual players Crusade seems to be aimed at.

[peacenlove]

I mean, it's not news. Even places known for 'positive reviews for access' couldn't help but point out Mission designs were poorly designed before Day 1.

How's Crusade working out for everyone?

Pissed off.
Not by the rules themselves, although that mission that you need to kill the opponent's warlord can die in a fire.
Its because we started with 500 pts games, which are very dice dependent.
Also 1st turn matters a lot and losing a 200 pts worth of stuff without retaliation from flying Deathguard princes with 26" threat radius and the abundance of Relics.