A Practical Guide to Evil II: The Last Thread's On Fire, But It's Not Our Fault

[Mith]

And mirror knights single upside is again his use as ammunition.
Cat is not even mentioning him as a meaningful contribution.

**** hadn't even noticed that. Granted I read that as implied with the ideas of soloing the Gates. Wonder if reducing him to a tool was intentional on Cat's part.

[HolyDraconus]

**** hadn't even noticed that. Granted I read that as implied with the ideas of soloing the Gates. Wonder if reducing him to a tool was intentional on Cat's part.

I feel like there's a joke in there.

[tyckspoon]

**** hadn't even noticed that. Granted I read that as implied with the ideas of soloing the Gates. Wonder if reducing him to a tool was intentional on Cat's part.

Eventually Cat finds out she darkflame'd herself in the foot when 'destroys gates' becomes part of Mirror Knight's story and he's no longer able to enter the Twilight Ways, leaving a key strategic asset stuck way out in the middle of enemy territory.

(Mirror Knight shows up a month later having single-handedly carved through literally miles of undead and levies a complaint under the Terms about being used as siege ammunition.)

[Mith]

I feel like there's a joke in there.

Unintentionally, but yes. I try to speak well enough of the character now that we have some sense of his character perspective.

I guess what I find pitiful about Christophe is that he was given incredible power, but not the tools to manage it all.

Yes Cat had a lot of times of using her power as a hammer going after nails, but she also had advisors that enabled her to correct it through specific training, along with support groups. Christophe has none of that training, and instead is expected to be guided by "heroic instincts" to Do The Right Thing.

I hope he has started on the path of embracing the role of a fulcrum rather than a mover. It's not the grandiose position, but it is just as vital as a leader of the charge, and people should acknowledge that.

[Rydiro]

I hope he has started on the path of embracing the role of a fulcrum rather than a mover. It's not the grandiose position, but it is just as vital as a leader of the charge, and people should acknowledge that.

I don't think named can do that.
They have to have ambition, they need to actively impact the world (and if its just simple stuff like having the best possible time). Else they lose their name, see dartwick.

[Mith]

I don't think named can do that.
They have to have ambition, they need to actively impact the world (and if its just simple stuff like having the best possible time). Else they lose their name, see dartwick.

That's fair. I guess my head is looking at what Christophe is actively good at, and it's closer to an Attendant style role (see Page or Adjutant) in that you are not in a leadership role per se, but you make the leadership role easier for who ever is in it by virtue of helping take care of details. In his case that's not as an administrative or management role, but in being a defensive wall where one can draw a line in the sand and say "This attack stops here."

I am not saying there are not limitations to it, but where Lawrence was a Sword, Christophe is a shield. I am not looking for Christophe to be damaged to the degree that Lawrence was where she thought of herself as only a tool, but more to the case of "I am good at standing on the frontline and keeping everyone behind me safe".

Christophe views himself as the flagbearer of Heroics, while I loo at his role and see the shield. Not as symbolic or flashy, but in many cases, more valuable than the standard.

[tyckspoon]

I don't think named can do that.
They have to have ambition, they need to actively impact the world (and if its just simple stuff like having the best possible time). Else they lose their name, see dartwick.

I had more response to this and then I misclicked and closed the wrong window -_-;

Support/advisor/mentor Names are a thing, and they arguably have had more actual influence on the world and the way the stories go than the marquee Named do. But I generally agree with Mith about Mirror Knight - it's not so much that he needs to stop being active, but he does need to learn the humility to understand that he may not always be the best judge of where and what his powers need to be used for.

[McNum]

Spoiler: Signs

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Well that's turning ominous. When every fortune teller is just getting white static for the coming battle, something really big is about to go down.

Not to mention the Woe is back together. The top Band of Five for Team Below is present and accounted for.

On one hand, this looks scary for our protagonists, but on the other, the Dead King is making a mistake if he attacks. This is the kind of fight where Names shine and Fate turns. Exactly what he's been trying to avoid.

[InvisibleBison]

Spoiler: Signs

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the Dead King is making a mistake if he attacks. This is the kind of fight where Names shine and Fate turns. Exactly what he's been trying to avoid.

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I'm not so sure about that. The Dead King hasn't committed anything to this battle, or to the war in general, that he can't afford to lose. The only real danger is a specialized anti-Dead King Name developing, and I think he's smart enough to avoid letting that happen.

[tyckspoon]

Spoiler: Signs

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On one hand, this looks scary for our protagonists, but on the other, the Dead King is making a mistake if he attacks. This is the kind of fight where Names shine and Fate turns. Exactly what he's been trying to avoid.

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But this is also, militarily speaking, a fight the Dead King cannot avoid. If he does not recapture Hainaut, he leaves a fortified city containing a dedicated portal to the Twilight Realms - a logistics and supply route he is unable to attack that will allow the Grand Alliance to safely and rapidly bring troops, goods, and Named to this front from every point in Calernia. Yielding Hainaut is as good as abandoning this front of the war, and gives the Grand Alliance a staging point for advancing into his actual own territory. The Dead King must commit to this attack, as a matter of strategy, and try to do so before Hainaut is invested with unassailable numbers and reinforcements.. and the predictions of the various soothsayers and fortunetellers suggests this is indeed what will happen.

..that said, if his opponents were merely satisfied to drive him out of their lands, he might quit here. As has been commented on before time is on his side - eventually memories will fade, somebody else will be desperate enough to give him an excuse to leave his land, and he can try again. But most of the forces driving the war at this time won't settle for 'claw back our lost land and start trying to make it usable again.' They have nothing less than the destruction of Keter as their war goal.

[Rydiro]

The Dead King declared his final war on the living.
He cant back down, the stories would crush him.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

The Dead King declared his final war on the living.
He cant back down, the stories would crush him.

No he didn't. He was invited in as a co-belligerent ally by a known Villain. He provides the disposable faceless mooks in bulk, they provide the motivation. If this goes badly, the story crushes the person that invited them in.

Grey Wolf

[Rydiro]

No he didn't. He was invited in as a co-belligerent ally by a known Villain. He provides the disposable faceless mooks in bulk, they provide the motivation. If this goes badly, the story crushes the person that invited them in.

Grey Wolf

I misremembered some of it.
Book 5, chapter 84, Declaration.
He declared, that there will be no peace and that he will come.

[Tvtyrant]

I misremembered some of it.
Book 5, chapter 84, Declaration.
He declared, that there will be no peace and that he will come.

I think him offering Cat a peace treaty and her rejecting it gave him the story momentum though. The Crusade/alliance are trying to make this an apocalypse war to get rid of him, but if they had tried to wipe out Malicia instead he would have easily slunk back to the status quo.

KotD is basically being opportunistic here. All of the powers have beaten themselves to death it civil wars and external wars right before he invaded, and he left a back door to get out. Malicia is the one who has broken the continent, all he has to do is turn the story back on her to get out.

[HolyDraconus]

Let's not forget that he still, even at this point, has not fielded the Weapons that he has. Every scuffle at this point has been at a level that the living can compete against, and worse, he's not even leading his armies most of the time. He's evading the story. There's got to be a good reason that the elves, gnomes and dwarves aren't committing to this either. Which leads me to believe that his declaration of war on the living isnt really a declaration. Its starting to look like a simple fact. Plus, we still have no idea if Below favors him, while he uses Below's tools for his benefit.

[Tvtyrant]

Let's not forget that he still, even at this point, has not fielded the Weapons that he has. Every scuffle at this point has been at a level that the living can compete against, and worse, he's not even leading his armies most of the time. He's evading the story. There's got to be a good reason that the elves, gnomes and dwarves aren't committing to this either. Which leads me to believe that his declaration of war on the living isnt really a declaration. Its starting to look like a simple fact. Plus, we still have no idea if Below favors him, while he uses Below's tools for his benefit.

He also seems to be opposed to the cosmological order and the Bard its agent. I have often wondered if he won't end up switching sides and agreeing to sign the Accords, they would benefit him immensely.

[InvisibleBison]

Do we actually know what the Dead King wants out of this war? It's hard to say whether he's winning or losing without knowing what his goal is, after all.

[HolyDraconus]

He also seems to be opposed to the cosmological order and the Bard its agent. I have often wondered if he won't end up switching sides and agreeing to sign the Accords, they would benefit him immensely.

The order is still in flux.

Do we actually know what the Dead King wants out of this war? It's hard to say whether he's winning or losing without knowing what his goal is, after all.

Screw the Bard? Mainly. That's pretty much what I got. Sure, he wants to kill the living, but then, they going to die anyway. so its not really a thing he needs to go out of his way for. Hell, like was said earlier, he can spin this whole thing as a defensive maneuver, as is..

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Sure, he wants to kill the living

Does he even want that? Or is that just PR? The guy has a cozy little private kingdom of his own with living humans in one of the hells. He has no problem with the living, if they stay in line. Like any other tyrant, what he seems to want is to be at the top of the food chain. He is just genre savvy enough to know that if he tried to be at the top of every food chain, the Universe would ensure a quick and painful fall.

(Speaking of which, I suspect that is also the reason why the gnomes can't just come over an nuke him - they too must be wary of becoming too powerful and attracting the wrong sort of attention; nuking those who are about to develop nukes, after ignoring two warnings: yes. Nuking anyone that might, at some point in the future, develop nukes: no)

ETA: pure speculation and gut feeling, but I suspect what he wants out of the war is to prevent the accords. He is probably threatened by the potential end of the clockwork open hostility cycle of the continent.

Grey Wolf

[HolyDraconus]

New chapter

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so thats it. She's free. And she stayed. I cant say im surprised with Cat since faith has been her thing for a bit... but the Folly... man..

[Mith]

New chapter

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so thats it. She's free. And she stayed. I cant say im surprised with Cat since faith has been her thing for a bit... but the Folly... man..

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External chains bind you to a much lesser degree than the ones you anchor directly to your heart. That goes for you bonds to other people as well as your past actions.

I'd say that Cat was always planning on this step, but wasn't sure about Vivienne's reaction to this decision.

A beautiful chapter

[Tvtyrant]

Spoiler: Onward!

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Yeah but that wouldn't be a punishment for her. That's the thing, Akua can't be punished by making her a ghost because it fits with her vision of herself Sticking her in the Mantle forever just makes her the equivalent of Rita Repulsa, sealed evil in a can to be let out later.

But if she is actually redeemed she is effectively tortured beyond anything you could do to her. She will torture herself for eternity. But for that to work she has to have the choice to be free of punishment and then embrace it herself.

Someone better pick up that phone

[Rydiro]

I actually like Akuas ambivalent arc. To give her punishment meaning, you have to make a person out of the tool. But then, when you made her a person, she is no longer the one who she was before. You'd basically be punishing a now good person.
And its a halfway realistic 'redemption' arc, where there is actually no redemption possible for the deeds done. I really like the realism of it all.

And it highlights again Cats hypocrisy. She is only caring about people close to her. In this case her dearest enemy.

Remember all those mages she crucified to the streets? Yeah, Cat probably doesn't. Didn't give them any chance at turning good, even if they probably had an upbringing similar to Akua.

[Mith]

I actually like Akuas ambivalent arc. To give her punishment meaning, you have to make a person out of the tool. But then, when you made her a person, she is no longer the one who she was before. You'd basically be punishing a now good person.
And its a halfway realistic 'redemption' arc, where there is actually no redemption possible for the deeds done. I really like the realism of it all.

And it highlights again Cats hypocrisy. She is only caring about people close to her. In this case her dearest enemy.

Remember all those mages she crucified to the streets? Yeah, Cat probably doesn't. Didn't give them any chance at turning good, even if they probably had an upbringing similar to Akua.

"One person is a tradgedy. A million is a statistic."

I do hope Akua throws those back at Cat in the sense of a sword that cuts both ways.

[Forum Explorer]

I actually like Akuas ambivalent arc. To give her punishment meaning, you have to make a person out of the tool. But then, when you made her a person, she is no longer the one who she was before. You'd basically be punishing a now good person.
And its a halfway realistic 'redemption' arc, where there is actually no redemption possible for the deeds done. I really like the realism of it all.

And it highlights again Cats hypocrisy. She is only caring about people close to her. In this case her dearest enemy.

Remember all those mages she crucified to the streets? Yeah, Cat probably doesn't. Didn't give them any chance at turning good, even if they probably had an upbringing similar to Akua.

Not necessarily. Cat is still bothered by the Folly and still one day intends to bring judgement onto Akua. And it'll be all the more devestating because Akua will accept it as her rightful punishment. Her wrongdoing will actually matter to her.

[Mith]

Not necessarily. Cat is still bothered by the Folly and still one day intends to bring judgement onto Akua. And it'll be all the more devestating because Akua will accept it as her rightful punishment. Her wrongdoing will actually matter to her.

I think it more goes that, what makes Akua more important than those that Cat crucified?

In the end, I think the best way to look at it is the fact that Cat's plan to "make a person out of Akua, then pass judgement" wasn't likely her initial plan as the Winter Queen that tore out her heart. Or at least, the exact driver of Cat's plan was different at the time. The execution of the mages was probably a means of a) carrying a judgement out against those that irreparably harmed Callow, and b) making anyone else think twice before coming after Callow again. It wasn't personal to Cat, just a punishment carried out on the enemy.

Cat wanted to make it personal to Akua, since she was the architect of the Doom of Liesse in a way that no one else who could be connected to it was. I don't think that the plan of a "redemption arc" really came into play until the confrontation with Sve Noc.

Then again, I view the theme of Book 4 as a descent into the pit and crawling back out, with the completion of the arc fully seen in Book 5. Book 6 (and now 7), will be used to see the rise of this new age.

[Rydiro]

Not necessarily. Cat is still bothered by the Folly and still one day intends to bring judgement onto Akua. And it'll be all the more devestating because Akua will accept it as her rightful punishment. Her wrongdoing will actually matter to her.

What was the oath again she swore to viv? She isn't planning on doing that to akua anymore.

Also she abandoned all mastery over akua. I think that includes the right to judge her. The only punishment remaining is akua really becoming a good person and having to live with her sins for the rest of her days.

EDIT: New chapter. Wherein The Barrow Sword learns mad chess skills, Hanno moves and Hierophant reads a book rather than watching the match pairings.

[Mith]

New chapter up! I am liking this slow build up personally. It matters what you do under the darkening sky.

A more community level analysis, does anyone else notice of the fact that people are tending to be very gloom and doom (to the point that if their predictions were right they would break the the structure of the story)? Is that due to some habits of other web serials that have this tendency to just break story threads?

It just irks me that people look at things like Cat sending her staff as a stage prop in order to boost the morale of the army is seen as "the Dead King may switch the staff into a hidden knife because she let it out of her sight". Are there stories written where that sort of mind****ery is commonplace?

[tyckspoon]

It just irks me that people look at things like Cat sending her staff as a stage prop in order to boost the morale of the army is seen as "the Dead King may switch the staff into a hidden knife because she let it out of her sight". Are there stories written where that sort of mind****ery is commonplace?

"Surprise, some anonymous minion you thought was probably trustworthy is actually a well-disguised undead/agent of Malicia/secretly Assassin!" has been a plot beat several times already, so.. yes? Remote agents are actually favored tools of basically all the current antagonists - it's what got Scorched Apostate killed, most recently that I can recall, as well as how Bard was able to organize the attack on the Arsenal. In this particular case the Gigante wardstones are supposed to be providing proof against that sort of shenanigan (when the army has time to stop and set up a proper camp, at least) and we haven't been given any indication that DK has found a way around them or to subvert them. Plus taking the army through the Twilight Ways several times should have burnt out any attempted undead sleepers, so there shouldn't really be anything the DK could do to make that kind of attack short of trying to have one of the Scourges infiltrate the city.

[Mith]

"Surprise, some anonymous minion you thought was probably trustworthy is actually a well-disguised undead/agent of Malicia/secretly Assassin!" has been a plot beat several times already, so.. yes? Remote agents are actually favored tools of basically all the current antagonists - it's what got Scorched Apostate killed, most recently that I can recall, as well as how Bard was able to organize the attack on the Arsenal. In this particular case the Gigante wardstones are supposed to be providing proof against that sort of shenanigan (when the army has time to stop and set up a proper camp, at least) and we haven't been given any indication that DK has found a way around them or to subvert them. Plus taking the army through the Twilight Ways several times should have burnt out any attempted undead sleepers, so there shouldn't really be anything the DK could do to make that kind of attack short of trying to have one of the Scourges infiltrate the city.

I guess my issue isn't so much the idea of remote agents, but literally replacing her walking stick with a bomb because she had it out of sight for an evening in a secure location. That was literally a prediction, on top of everyone being predicted to die because they made plans as part of the planning stages of a war effort.

What I am finding when it comes to looking at discussions of the story is that people just expect that everything will start looking up in order for everyone to get their throat cut because the Dead King/Bard have enough agents to do so without any foreshadowing.

I am just curious if there are other stories out there that seem to just break story threads like that. At least there is mention of Worm and the others that make it sound like a lot of the more popular web serials are significantly more grimdark than the Guide.

The Guide is more fridge horror than actual grim dark.