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  1. - Top - End - #151
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    Default Re: A Practical Guide to Evil II: The Last Thread's On Fire, But It's Not Our Fault

    Quote Originally Posted by Tvtyrant View Post
    I imagine the fact that Drow live very long lives, and need to be killed to collect their Night is a factor. Imagine if Goblins died of old age or accidents regularly and Night just bled out of the system.
    That's a consequence of the night. Not any inherent physiological trait of Drow.

    Lots of Night = Don't age. Rumena was old before Night became a thing.
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    Quote Originally Posted by AvatarZero View Post
    I like the "hobo" in there.
    "Hey, you just got 10000gp! You going to buy a fully staffed mansion or something?"
    "Nah, I'll upgrade my +2 sword to a +3 sword and sleep in my cloak."

    Non est salvatori salvator, neque defensori dominus, nec pater nec mater, nihil supernum.

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  2. - Top - End - #152
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    Default Re: A Practical Guide to Evil II: The Last Thread's On Fire, But It's Not Our Fault

    Quote Originally Posted by Fable Wright View Post
    My theory is that she'll be the named Black Queen
    She's been mentally preparing herself to give up the crown, and I really hope she doesn't buckle on that and kick Vivienne to the curb. Besides, she already is known as the Black Queen so if that was going to be her Name, she'd had taken it up by now, I'd imagine. No, that Name seems all wrong at this point. Maybe the concept will turn out to be correct, but not under that Name.

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    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
    Ceterum autem censeo Hilgya malefica est

  3. - Top - End - #153
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    Default Re: A Practical Guide to Evil II: The Last Thread's On Fire, But It's Not Our Fault

    Quote Originally Posted by druid91 View Post
    That's a consequence of the night. Not any inherent physiological trait of Drow.

    Lots of Night = Don't age. Rumena was old before Night became a thing.
    That makes them an even better fit for the Goblins. Robber as a priest of Night is an easy way out of the aging problem.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Glyphstone View Post
    Vibranium: If it was on the periodic table, its chemical symbol would be "Bs".

  4. - Top - End - #154
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    Default Re: A Practical Guide to Evil II: The Last Thread's On Fire, But It's Not Our Fault

    Latest chapter.... and one inner monologue sums up for me what i was thinking..
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    "And Gods Below, how large would the scope of it be for it to take so long to coalesce?"

  5. - Top - End - #155
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    Default Re: A Practical Guide to Evil II: The Last Thread's On Fire, But It's Not Our Fault

    Thinking about it, can new Names gain a massive power boost from going up against and winning against old, established Names? "A person is defined by their enemies" and all that.

    Well Cat managed to get an entire continent dancing to her tune in a way that not even Triumphant really managed. She has twisted a Crusade into a weapon to suit her own purpose, and while she has paid the price along the way, her cause has always been victorious. She never really used Names the way other Heroes and Villains do. They have really only ever been handholds.

    This Name will fit her perfectly instead.

  6. - Top - End - #156
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    mad Re: A Practical Guide to Evil II: The Last Thread's On Fire, But It's Not Our Fault

    Quote Originally Posted by Grey_Wolf_c View Post
    She's been mentally preparing herself to give up the crown, and I really hope she doesn't buckle on that and kick Vivienne to the curb. Besides, she already is known as the Black Queen so if that was going to be her Name, she'd had taken it up by now, I'd imagine. No, that Name seems all wrong at this point. Maybe the concept will turn out to be correct, but not under that Name.

    Grey Wolf
    Complication: the recent interludes in the Arsenal showed unwavering faith in her from her soldiers. Will Callow ever stop thinking of her as a queen? I'm predicting a situation like the Grey Pilgrim. Wearing no crown and sitting upon no throne, ruler of two nations if she ever cared to claim it, her only subjects in name being the Villains signed to the Liesse Accords.

    And I'm pretty sure that new Roles are Named after the titles given to them by others, not abstract concepts. How else would we get Grey Pilgrim or Mirror Knight?
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  7. - Top - End - #157
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    Default Re: A Practical Guide to Evil II: The Last Thread's On Fire, But It's Not Our Fault

    She could still have the Name of The Arbiter while having the epithet of The Black Queen (similar to how the previous Black Knight was the Carrion Lord).

  8. - Top - End - #158

    Default Re: A Practical Guide to Evil II: The Last Thread's On Fire, But It's Not Our Fault

    Quote Originally Posted by Fable Wright View Post
    And I'm pretty sure that new Roles are Named after the titles given to them by others, not abstract concepts. How else would we get Grey Pilgrim or Mirror Knight?
    Like most things about names, it appears to be somewhat mixed. A lot of the ruling names (like Dread Emperor, or "Warden of the West"/"First Prince" Names Cordelia was offered) seem to be synonymous with the titles given to the local monarch. But on the other end of the scale, you have Names like Scribe and Archer that don't really seem they were personal titles before becoming Names. It's hard to imagine someone calling one particular archer who was really good at archery "Archer". I think Cat's Name is probably going to be for a Role that's pretty divorced from ruling Callow, so I doubt it'll be Black Queen (not to mention that she was offered that after Second Liesse and didn't take it).

    Arbiter seems like a pretty good fit, actually. It's got connotations of being in control, without being explicitly defined as a ruler, and it fits with her desire to formalize rules for Named. It's also a good contrast to the Intercessor. Where the Wandering Bard exercises control by pushing, prodding, and pulling from the shadows, Cat is a lot more direct, though not necessarily unsubtle. And her interactions with angels fit pretty well to a pattern of "they're your damn rules, now follow them".

  9. - Top - End - #159
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    BlackDragon

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    Default Re: A Practical Guide to Evil II: The Last Thread's On Fire, But It's Not Our Fault

    Quote Originally Posted by NigelWalmsley View Post
    Like most things about names, it appears to be somewhat mixed. A lot of the ruling names (like Dread Emperor, or "Warden of the West"/"First Prince" Names Cordelia was offered) seem to be synonymous with the titles given to the local monarch. But on the other end of the scale, you have Names like Scribe and Archer that don't really seem they were personal titles before becoming Names. It's hard to imagine someone calling one particular archer who was really good at archery "Archer". I think Cat's Name is probably going to be for a Role that's pretty divorced from ruling Callow, so I doubt it'll be Black Queen (not to mention that she was offered that after Second Liesse and didn't take it).

    Arbiter seems like a pretty good fit, actually. It's got connotations of being in control, without being explicitly defined as a ruler, and it fits with her desire to formalize rules for Named. It's also a good contrast to the Intercessor. Where the Wandering Bard exercises control by pushing, prodding, and pulling from the shadows, Cat is a lot more direct, though not necessarily unsubtle. And her interactions with angels fit pretty well to a pattern of "they're your damn rules, now follow them".
    The Beast reacted though during the duel. Something about Judgement, so there's that.

  10. - Top - End - #160
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    Default Re: A Practical Guide to Evil II: The Last Thread's On Fire, But It's Not Our Fault

    So here's this giant enemy crab.

    It would be like Cat to attack its weak point for massive damage, too.

  11. - Top - End - #161
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    Default Re: A Practical Guide to Evil II: The Last Thread's On Fire, But It's Not Our Fault

    Spoiler: Chapter 54: King’s Fianchetto
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    I wonder if Hakram will go from Adjutaunt to Warlord (view as a military promotion). His Warlord won't fight for orcs, so he will do so alone.

    He wants to fight to the point that he would learn to fight in prosthetics, and he wants the Orcs to break with the Tower.

    This really screws with the "No Named rulers" clause Cat was trying to get through, though that may fail with the fact that the Tower will likely still stand unless Black tears it down.

  12. - Top - End - #162
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    Default Re: A Practical Guide to Evil II: The Last Thread's On Fire, But It's Not Our Fault

    Several nations are literally defined by having named rulers. Cat has to kill Praes off if she wants to get rid of the Emperor/Empress model for instance.

    And to be honest her entire scheme assumes that imperial borders are legitimate and that nations are real. The issue with that is borders change and nations rise and splinter constantly, for this to work she has to build an international organization devoted to maintaining out of date borders.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Glyphstone View Post
    Vibranium: If it was on the periodic table, its chemical symbol would be "Bs".

  13. - Top - End - #163
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    Default Re: A Practical Guide to Evil II: The Last Thread's On Fire, But It's Not Our Fault

    Quote Originally Posted by Tvtyrant View Post
    Several nations are literally defined by having named rulers. Cat has to kill Praes off if she wants to get rid of the Emperor/Empress model for instance.

    And to be honest her entire scheme assumes that imperial borders are legitimate and that nations are real. The issue with that is borders change and nations rise and splinter constantly, for this to work she has to build an international organization devoted to maintaining out of date borders.
    What if she just says screw borders and have it as a mandate in the Accords, on pain of death? Considering both Sides agreed to them it can stand, and given enough time the common populace will develop their own stigma surrounding it. Hell, Malicia could be the first target if she survived.

  14. - Top - End - #164
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    Default Re: A Practical Guide to Evil II: The Last Thread's On Fire, But It's Not Our Fault

    Quote Originally Posted by Tvtyrant View Post
    Several nations are literally defined by having named rulers. Cat has to kill Praes off if she wants to get rid of the Emperor/Empress model for instance.

    And to be honest her entire scheme assumes that imperial borders are legitimate and that nations are real. The issue with that is borders change and nations rise and splinter constantly, for this to work she has to build an international organization devoted to maintaining out of date borders.
    I'm not saying that the concept doesn't have any problems objectively, but from Cat's perspective, every Named ruler will drag their nations into a conflict that as she sees it they should not be a part of.

    I wonder if there is a method to sign on as constitutional monarch style where Named rulers are recognised as being two different persons under the laws of their state and the Accords? So peacetime functions of a ruler are unchanged, but they are faced with wartime limitations. This probably would be something that could arise out of the Grand Alliance on it's own as well.

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    Default Re: A Practical Guide to Evil II: The Last Thread's On Fire, But It's Not Our Fault

    Spoiler: Queen's Pawn
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    You know, if Catherine is to have a divine miracle named after her, it is entirely fitting that it is a black firestorm. Catherine's Tears, indeed.

    This time, she did start the fire.

  16. - Top - End - #166
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    Default Re: A Practical Guide to Evil II: The Last Thread's On Fire, But It's Not Our Fault

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    Seems like the Drow get night from killing anything, not just Drow by the statements made about the Sigils. That's some busted stuff right there, they just get continously better as a race forever.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Glyphstone View Post
    Vibranium: If it was on the periodic table, its chemical symbol would be "Bs".

  17. - Top - End - #167
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    Default Re: A Practical Guide to Evil II: The Last Thread's On Fire, But It's Not Our Fault

    We always known that the Drow can taken drag anything to the alter of Night. It's why they raided everyone.

    I figure the Drow are really an Evil counter of the Elves, who are are at their peak as a society; they cannot have children, so they cannot grow in number, and seem hyper entrenched in their viewpoints. The Drow, especially if Cat's Reforms refine themselves, are now a culture that grows, adapts and over comes obstacles over time. They are the perfect "bottle cap" to the looming threats provided by the Ratlings and the Dead King (should he only be sealed away). The issue is that they were turned inwards for so much infighting that they couldn't do anything to get ahead.

    They just need to not implode in the mean time.

    ===

    I am curious how many "traditionalists" there are amongst the Drow Sigils. One of the Ten Generals was mentioned to have taken the Everdark army doctrine and made it holy law, so the concept of sharing resources isn't an entirely foreign concept to the Drow nation.

  18. - Top - End - #168
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    Default Re: A Practical Guide to Evil II: The Last Thread's On Fire, But It's Not Our Fault

    Two things have been mentioned so far: Drow can harvest Night from nearly anything they kill in combat. Other races haven't developed that particular ability, nor the more important one of amassing Night to become Mighty, so while yes, slaughtering some undead will garner Night, it´s not on the scale that slaughtering a Mighty will provide.

    That particular general was the one shown in the vision by the Sisters? Did´t really impress me.

  19. - Top - End - #169
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    Default Re: A Practical Guide to Evil II: The Last Thread's On Fire, But It's Not Our Fault

    Quote Originally Posted by Florian View Post
    Two things have been mentioned so far: Drow can harvest Night from nearly anything they kill in combat. Other races haven't developed that particular ability, nor the more important one of amassing Night to become Mighty, so while yes, slaughtering some undead will garner Night, it´s not on the scale that slaughtering a Mighty will provide.

    That particular general was the one shown in the vision by the Sisters? Did´t really impress me.
    I'm not talking about personal ability. Just the fact that that chapter mentioned that while unusual, sigils that train up less powerful Drow were not unheard of prior to the introduction of Oath Night. As such I am wondering if the "traditionalists" are closer to a minority in number/voices, if not in general individual firepower.

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    Default Re: A Practical Guide to Evil II: The Last Thread's On Fire, But It's Not Our Fault

    Quote Originally Posted by Mith View Post
    I'm not talking about personal ability. Just the fact that that chapter mentioned that while unusual, sigils that train up less powerful Drow were not unheard of prior to the introduction of Oath Night. As such I am wondering if the "traditionalists" are closer to a minority in number/voices, if not in general individual firepower.
    Drow once had a civilization, build cities, had a functioning culture and such. So one can assume that they also had stuff like organized city watch and a standing army.

    The general that was shown and talked about a bit structures his sigil more along the line of an army. By the battle that was described, you can easily see that beyond that, it´s all typical drow, with Mighty and such.

  21. - Top - End - #171
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    Default Re: A Practical Guide to Evil II: The Last Thread's On Fire, But It's Not Our Fault

    Quote Originally Posted by Florian View Post
    Drow once had a civilization, build cities, had a functioning culture and such. So one can assume that they also had stuff like organized city watch and a standing army.
    Did anyone get why drow aren't gendered for most of their lifespan, but they have two female godesses?
    Doesn't make much sense to me.

  22. - Top - End - #172
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    Default Re: A Practical Guide to Evil II: The Last Thread's On Fire, But It's Not Our Fault

    Quote Originally Posted by Rydiro View Post
    Did anyone get why drow aren't gendered for most of their lifespan, but they have two female godesses?
    Doesn't make much sense to me.
    I would guess that the pre-Sve Noc drow society had genders, , but after the ascension of Sve Noc and the creation of Night that aspect of drow society was lost. It probably has something to do with the fact that modern drow aren't particularly interested in sex.
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    Default Re: A Practical Guide to Evil II: The Last Thread's On Fire, But It's Not Our Fault

    Quote Originally Posted by Rydiro View Post
    Did anyone get why drow aren't gendered for most of their lifespan, but they have two female godesses?
    Doesn't make much sense to me.
    My impression was that under Empire Underdark, the drow were not quite so agendered, just egalitarian (you do what you want to do within the structure of the society). The agendered portion could have been something that rose after the ascension of Sve Noc. The first memories talk about their "fathers" and "mothers". While that could be a strictly functional label, I think it reflects that the Drow refined to just being goal driven people so gender labels do not define them.

  24. - Top - End - #174

    Default Re: A Practical Guide to Evil II: The Last Thread's On Fire, But It's Not Our Fault

    Quote Originally Posted by Rydiro View Post
    Did anyone get why drow aren't gendered for most of their lifespan, but they have two female godesses?
    The "it" pronoun that gets used for drow is particularly revealing here, I think. The drow spent the past couple hundred (thousand? I forget the exact timescales) years in a culture that was basically an extended blood sacrifice. Anything that wasn't killing other drow for their power was viewed as at best menial and at worst dangerous (because if you learn something cool, your boss kills you and takes your knowledge). The way I understood it, drow basically viewed reproduction as menial labor, and since their "society" wasn't complicated enough to support roles other than "murders other people for power by any means available", they didn't have any real concept of gender roles either. But before the Night, they had a thriving civilization with art and culture and families, which apparently had concepts like "male" and "female".

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    Default Re: A Practical Guide to Evil II: The Last Thread's On Fire, But It's Not Our Fault

    So gods dont seem to be influenced much by their believers, or else the 'sisters' would have eroded into 'siblings'.

  26. - Top - End - #176
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    BlackDragon

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    Default Re: A Practical Guide to Evil II: The Last Thread's On Fire, But It's Not Our Fault

    Quote Originally Posted by Rydiro View Post
    So gods dont seem to be influenced much by their believers, or else the 'sisters' would have eroded into 'siblings'.
    We don't have enough to go off of in that case though: the sisters didn't become full fledged gods until after Cat gave up Winter to them.

  27. - Top - End - #177
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    Default Re: A Practical Guide to Evil II: The Last Thread's On Fire, But It's Not Our Fault

    We also know basically nothing about the Gods as a whole. Besides using the world as a big storybook and evidently imposing a static setting on a limited area (not the underground or other continents, just surface Calernia.)
    Quote Originally Posted by The Glyphstone View Post
    Vibranium: If it was on the periodic table, its chemical symbol would be "Bs".

  28. - Top - End - #178
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    Default Re: A Practical Guide to Evil II: The Last Thread's On Fire, But It's Not Our Fault

    Quote Originally Posted by Tvtyrant View Post
    We also know basically nothing about the Gods as a whole. Besides using the world as a big storybook and evidently imposing a static setting on a limited area (not the underground or other continents, just surface Calernia.)
    Aren't the Gnomes the ones imposing the static setting, not the Gods? Which, of course, would imply that Gnomes (and their equals) are running around with their own Names on whatever Spelljammer-esque shenanigans they get up to!

  29. - Top - End - #179
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    Default Re: A Practical Guide to Evil II: The Last Thread's On Fire, But It's Not Our Fault

    Pretty much for the Drow it's just that their society wasn't always like this. Current Drow are barbarians playing in the ruins of their empire of old, and the current drow culture is nothing like the original, because they were going to go extinct if they didn't completely remake their culture into a giant blood sacrifice because they were borrowing against the future to extend their lives, a future that the dwarves destroyed.

    So, under the all consuming need to have constant bloodshed and sacrifice, their entire original culture broke. I mean just think about the effects that has on people. Even if, originally, you start with a normal, modern human family unit.

    Now imagine your children can be killed at any time, because they learned a skill a Mighty might find useful, or simply because they wanted a little bit more night. Imagine you or your spouse might be killed at any time for the same reasons. But there's always a need for more sacrifices, always a need for more people, so the mighty want you to have children, and petty concepts like 'liking' the person joining you in parenthood are besides the point.

    You're going through nine months of utter misery not because you love someone, or even because you want to have a child you can love and watch grow up and be raised by you, but because some psycho ordered you on pain of death to sleep with someone you don't even like so that at the end of those nine months they have a slave they can sacrifice on a whim to raise up a lesser mighty.

    As for Mighty themselves having children, it would be hard for anyone of a sentimental bent to make it as Mighty. And since being Mighty is the only way you stay alive.... We already see high power corporate types tend not to have families as they put their career over it. Now imagine if instead of business, your daily grind was endless murderous war, both from without and from within.

    A child, if it's to be of value to a mighty would need them to have some level of sentiment. Which they lack, and if they lack the sentiment, what's the difference between them having the kid, or forcing some non-mighty to do it? The result is just more meat for the grinder regardless.
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    Quote Originally Posted by AvatarZero View Post
    I like the "hobo" in there.
    "Hey, you just got 10000gp! You going to buy a fully staffed mansion or something?"
    "Nah, I'll upgrade my +2 sword to a +3 sword and sleep in my cloak."

    Non est salvatori salvator, neque defensori dominus, nec pater nec mater, nihil supernum.

    Torumekian knight Avatar by Licoot.

    Note to self: Never get involved in an ethics thread again...Especially if I'm defending the empire.

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    Default Re: A Practical Guide to Evil II: The Last Thread's On Fire, But It's Not Our Fault

    Quote Originally Posted by MammonAzrael View Post
    Aren't the Gnomes the ones imposing the static setting, not the Gods? Which, of course, would imply that Gnomes (and their equals) are running around with their own Names on whatever Spelljammer-esque shenanigans they get up to!
    The Gnomes mandate a technological stasis, but the whole nature of Narrative and Names is to trap societies in sociological stasis, and those are from the gods. Rationally speaking, Praes should be a peaceful nation that exports gems and magic (of which it has a lot) and imports food (of which it does not have very much). But instead it's been ruled by a litany of crazy tyrants who try to steal their neighbor's weather, create armies of sentient tigers, or otherwise engage in the sort of villainous shenanigans for which they are narratively rewarded, resulting in an endless series of wars with Callow that they most lose.

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