A Practical Guide to Evil II: The Last Thread's On Fire, But It's Not Our Fault

[HolyDraconus]

You know things are serious when

Spoiler: New chapter out if you haven't guessed.

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Zombie is gone. That flying monster will be missed.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Alas, Zombie I III II, we hardly knew ye.

But yeah, the winged one has more personality than the other two, and will be missed.

GW

[Mith]

Alas, Zombie I III II, we hardly knew ye.

But yeah, the winged one has more personality than the other two, and will be missed.

GW

I wonder if she may return yet. Simply because there has been a lot of comments on her personality and evolution over time in Creation, which sounds very similar to the Summoner's own creations.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

I wonder if she may return yet. Simply because there has been a lot of comments on her personality and evolution over time in Creation, which sounds very similar to the Summoner's own creations.

I find that fairly unlikely - this story is not shy about keeping dead characters dead. Cat may still recycle the name, of course, as is her wont, but it won't be this zombie, just the next one.

But that is indeed a connection I had not picked up, thank you for pointing it out - Cat's necromancy does resemble summoning (and presumably, resembles it more than regular necromancy, since it has been pointed out multiple times that normal undead don't develop personalities). Huh. I wonder where the story is going with that.

Grey Wolf

[Forum Explorer]

I find that fairly unlikely - this story is not shy about keeping dead characters dead. Cat may still recycle the name, of course, as is her wont, but it won't be this zombie, just the next one.

But that is indeed a connection I had not picked up, thank you for pointing it out - Cat's necromancy does resemble summoning (and presumably, resembles it more than regular necromancy, since it has been pointed out multiple times that normal undead don't develop personalities). Huh. I wonder where the story is going with that.

Grey Wolf

It actually makes me wonder if the next Zombie will have this Zombie's personality. But I doubt it. I think this Zombie had so much personality because it was originally a Fae creature and was animated by Winter's power.

[Mith]

To be clear, I am fine either way. I just think it would be interesting if Zombie returned in some form or another.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

The herd of goats filled with explosives & goblin fire she's going to sent into those caves to collapse them is going to be a sight to behold.
[/mostly tongue in cheek]
GW

[HolyDraconus]

The herd of goats filled with explosives & goblin fire she's going to sent into those caves to collapse them is going to be a sight to behold.
GW

She wouldn't..... would she? Lol

[Grey_Wolf_c]

She wouldn't..... would she? Lol

I mean, the reason she won't is because she doesn't have enough explosives. But if she was still working for Black and thus had effectively infinite munitions? Oh, it'd be glorious. Baa... Boom

Grey Wolf

[HolyDraconus]

I mean, the reason she won't is because she doesn't have enough explosives. But if she was still working for Black and thus had effectively infinite munitions? Oh, it'd be glorious. Baa... Boom

Grey Wolf

Didnt Pickler come up with a Light fueled alternative though?

[Florian]

The herd of goats filled with explosives & goblin fire she's going to sent into those caves to collapse them is going to be a sight to behold.

Won't happen.

EE makes extensive use of a very classic writing technique: Making a big point of elaborately going into option A and B, then showing that the protagonist is very clever by going for option C, which hasn't been touched on in any way at this point.

The exploding sheep were option C when the story was still about the conflict of two more regular armies.

The current story arc features both, high and low in the sense of armies and Heroes/Villains/Mighty, so the current option C will resolve more around "story power" this time.

[Mith]

Won't happen.

EE makes extensive use of a very classic writing technique: Making a big point of elaborately going into option A and B, then showing that the protagonist is very clever by going for option C, which hasn't been touched on in any way at this point.

The exploding sheep were option C when the story was still about the conflict of two more regular armies.

The current story arc features both, high and low in the sense of armies and Heroes/Villains/Mighty, so the current option C will resolve more around "story power" this time.

Thinking on the subject of "story power".

I know that it's been discussed in similar form before, but since Names arise not just out of personal drive, but also on building a reputation ahead of oneself (all Names are in a sense spiritual successors of their predecessor), I wonder if Heroes are less favoured by "the story" as much because the Heavens pour so much power into them more so that the people want them to win. Heroes don't die when thrown off cliffs because people don't want them to die. Villains don't succeed because no one wants them to succeed. However, when you believe in punitive justice (ironic downfall), you also keep the bogeymen around just long enough to prove your point.

I'm not saying that the Gods Wager doesn't play a role, but more that how civilisation evolves their Names and Roles plays a bigger role than what the Gods want.

The reason this train of thought is interesting to me in this final arc is because Serenity genuinely venerates Nemeshah as a benevolent god. If the above is correct, wouldn't the civilisation of Serenity will give Nemeshah some form of Providence in this instance?

[Florian]

@Mith:

I think you have the basics wrong.

History repeats itself. The concept we are talking about, is that certain stuff repeated so often that it left a mark, a pattern, on reality. These marks/patterns have the habit to happen as part of regular reality, but also follow their own logic, sort of a second level of reality, superseding the basic level.

Basically, you see a difference where there is actually none. The heroic template generally is granted power, while the villainous archetype general takes power. One has been chosen by a choir, the other has opted to bind demons and so on.

Main difference is that the villain generally get to act, while the heroes react, which is the reason why they are better in synch with Story, because they have started the patterns these stories revolve around (band of 5, 3 rounds and so on).

The Dead King has already grown into his own Name, but nothing else beyond that.

[Mith]

@Mith:

I think you have the basics wrong.

History repeats itself. The concept we are talking about, is that certain stuff repeated so often that it left a mark, a pattern, on reality. These marks/patterns have the habit to happen as part of regular reality, but also follow their own logic, sort of a second level of reality, superseding the basic level.

Basically, you see a difference where there is actually none. The heroic template generally is granted power, while the villainous archetype general takes power. One has been chosen by a choir, the other has opted to bind demons and so on.

Main difference is that the villain generally get to act, while the heroes react, which is the reason why they are better in synch with Story, because they have started the patterns these stories revolve around (band of 5, 3 rounds and so on).

The Dead King has already grown into his own Name, but nothing else beyond that.

I guess the reason for my thought in terms of a society reinforcing a Name is the fact that we have Names that fall out of favour (see the tribal Names of the pre Tower Praes or the breaking of the Orc nation by the Meizens), as well as tropes that arise (everyone knows that Heroes don't die from being thrown off cliffs). Similarly, the Dead King does have a society behind him that sees him as a protector against the violence of those outside Serenity. Will the invading Grand Alliance face any risk in trying to take Serenity because from the perspective of those people, their paradise is being invaded unprovoked (they don't even have to know about the current war).

Look at how Kairos was able to flip the story against everyone during the formation of Twilight by being a hammy little ****. If the forces of the story is fickle enough, could a final invasion of Serenity face the Dead King able to invoke similar tropes as well? This is less about the power of a Name itself, and more the belief around them ala Hierarch manifestation of the blind faith of Bellerophon.

I'm fine if I am wrong, but I am just wondering if attempts of complete eradication (and if Nemashah would give the Grand Alliance a way to avoid such a brutal fight) can force the Alliance into a corner.

Then again, that might be mitigated with Cat's idea of gifting the Crown of Autumn to the Dead King.

[tyckspoon]

Didnt Pickler come up with a Light fueled alternative though?

Just artillery pieces so far; we know about the unravelers (for helping take down the biggest monsters that otherwise required large amounts of very limited resources to fight) and the newest one is a stone shot that can be used for field support pieces - I think Cat is hoping that will be the counter to the armor undead and the medium-size monsters, the things that normal soldiers and priest/mage support can fight but they're currently taking unacceptably heavy losses to do it. I don't recall any mention of infantry-deployable munitions alternatives.. I'm sure it's something Cat has a priority research request on, tho, especially after figuring out a workable/sort of mass production formula for the unravelers. Grenades that cause a self-sustaining Lightstorm which eats necromantic magic would put a fairly definite end to the concept of undead armies.

[HolyDraconus]

Just artillery pieces so far; we know about the unravelers (for helping take down the biggest monsters that otherwise required large amounts of very limited resources to fight) and the newest one is a stone shot that can be used for field support pieces - I think Cat is hoping that will be the counter to the armor undead and the medium-size monsters, the things that normal soldiers and priest/mage support can fight but they're currently taking unacceptably heavy losses to do it. I don't recall any mention of infantry-deployable munitions alternatives.. I'm sure it's something Cat has a priority research request on, tho, especially after figuring out a workable/sort of mass production formula for the unravelers. Grenades that cause a self-sustaining Lightstorm which eats necromantic magic would put a fairly definite end to the concept of undead armies.

I can't believe I missed this... Cat's researching the HOLY GRENADE. lmao

[McNum]

Well there's an old favorite revisited. All we need now is goblinfire and we've had the entire Black Queen special.

Sooner or later, she's going to light that green fire intentionally.

[Fable Wright]

Well there's an old favorite revisited. All we need now is goblinfire and we've had the entire Black Queen special.

Sooner or later, she's going to light that green fire intentionally.

Nah, there's not enough goblinfire to go around. The stuff seems useful around Keter to eat wards, but the sappers were mentioned to only have enough to really hammer two fortified positions with it.

...Which naturally means Ol' Bones won't give her the chance to use it intentionally, on her own terms.

[lord_khaine]

Oh god.. Robber and the Page was a work of art.
I laughted so had i ended up with tears in my eyes.

[Tvtyrant]

Oh god.. Robber and the Page was a work of art.
I laughted so had i ended up with tears in my eyes.

One of the few actually funny moments in the series.

Also, gotta love Cat's approach. Fantastic mix of incredibly straightforward and devious.

[Mith]

People are suggesting Abigail to gain the Name of Dauntless General, thinking it would be hilarious as she is not particularly courageous. However, looking at the definition/history of the word from Merriam -Webster:

"The history of the world is peopled with dauntless men and women who refused to be subdued or "tamed" by fear. The word dauntless can be traced back to Latin domare, meaning "to tame" or "to subdue." When our verb daunt (a domare descendant borrowed by way of Anglo-French) was first used in the 14th century, it shared these meanings. The now-obsolete "tame" sense referred to the taming or breaking of wild animals, particularly horses: an undaunted horse was an unbroken horse. Not until the late 16th century did we use undaunted with the meaning "undiscouraged and courageously resolute" to describe people. By then, such lionhearted souls could also be described as undauntable, and finally, in Henry VI, Part 3, Shakespeare gave us dauntless."

So if you look at Abigal's "Dot your i's cross your t's approach to war, along with the Power of Story, she is the dauntless as she is always the one standing on her feet. She really took Cat's point about "use your fear of failure to prevent the on coming disaster" to heart.

[McNum]

Oh my. If Cat can Speak without her Name having found its true form yet, just what kind of power is she working towards?

It is interesting that it manifested when having to put her foot down against Named. That's beginning to become a pattern. Whenever Cat deals with Named, be they dead or living, the beast lurks behind her in satisfaction.

A Name to rule the Named, maybe? That's going to need a lot of power to work. And quite possibly an event like no other for it to finally coalesce. And considering what Cat has been up to so far without it being nailed down... If it doesn't leave a permanent mark on the land, it'd almost be disappointing.

[Forum Explorer]

A more nasty pattern seems to be forming as well: All of Cat's friendships are on the rocks. She's fighting with Archer, Hakrum, Vivi, and the White Knight. The only person she isn't fighting with is Masego. The Wandering Bard might join bands, but is always really seperate. Whatever Cat is becoming is in a band of 5 now, but she might be doomed to stand alone.

[McNum]

The horrible thing there is that the beast especially approves when she's passing judgment on Named.

If she ends up as an arbiter of all Named or something equally grand and preposterous, then she cannot be equals with any Named anymore. Even the Dread Emperors have a Black Knight, but whatever Cat is becoming might have to stand truly alone.

[Tvtyrant]

A more nasty pattern seems to be forming as well: All of Cat's friendships are on the rocks. She's fighting with Archer, Hakrum, Vivi, and the White Knight. The only person she isn't fighting with is Masego. The Wandering Bard might join bands, but is always really seperate. Whatever Cat is becoming is in a band of 5 now, but she might be doomed to stand alone.

That is why Hasenbach turned her name down, because it would remove the equality between her and the other princes and so destroy their oligarchy/aristocracy. In Cat's case being Queen of the Named will likely make her very powerful, but also no one can be close to her as she stands above. Which we already saw was a mistake when she as Winter, she should probably reject the Name.

[Glimbur]

That is why Hasenbach turned her name down, because it would remove the equality between her and the other princes and so destroy their oligarchy/aristocracy. In Cat's case being Queen of the Named will likely make her very powerful, but also no one can be close to her as she stands above. Which we already saw was a mistake when she as Winter, she should probably reject the Name.

But a Name is also power. And it sure would be nice to have power. Need some way to hurt the Grey Legion, though it would be a little off for an Arbiter to have a plot device Aspect for that. Maybe she could have some kind of meta-Name power, like metamagic alters magic. Hard to say.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

If Cat can Speak without her Name

QQ on the topic, where is Speaking explained? I've checked the wiki and tvtropes, but while I find references to it, there isn't a dedicated page I can find or even a reference to where in the book it was expositioned. I'm looking to remind myself of who gets to Speak, who they can affect, etc. In the back of my mind, I was under the misapprehension that it only worked on non-Named, which is obviously not the case.

TvTropes suggests she Spoke early on in her Squire days, but I've not had much luck finding the appropriate chapter.

Thanks,

Grey Wolf

[Mith]

QQ on the topic, where is Speaking explained? I've checked the wiki and tvtropes, but while I find references to it, there isn't a dedicated page I can find or even a reference to where in the book it was expositioned. I'm looking to remind myself of who gets to Speak, who they can affect, etc. In the back of my mind, I was under the misapprehension that it only worked on non-Named, which is obviously not the case.

TvTropes suggests she Spoke early on in her Squire days, but I've not had much luck finding the appropriate chapter.

Thanks,

Grey Wolf

The earliest example I can find is when she yells at the Hall of Eternal Screams for them to shut up, and they do. (About 1/3rd down the page. Look for a bolded Enough

And we know it works on Names, because Black used Speech to command Cat to watch the hangings. It's just a means of enforcing your will over living creatures that you hold power over.

I wonder if the concept of Names, Domains, and Speaking are all interconnected in terms of Names allowing one to impose their will over Creation in terms of how they interact with it, with Speaking and Domains being of similar abilities to that.

[Starlit Dragon]

Alright. Changing the subject here, but I'm theorizing that this is when Nessie is going to put his actual plan into play. Assuming, of course, that Cat doesn't achieve a story-brought victory. Which seems quite likely, actually. Ah, well. I can still hope.

[HolyDraconus]

Alright. Changing the subject here, but I'm theorizing that this is when Nessie is going to put his actual plan into play. Assuming, of course, that Cat doesn't achieve a story-brought victory. Which seems quite likely, actually. Ah, well. I can still hope.

I think both will happen honestly. Cat may get her victory, but the King of Death isn't going to just.. roll over and die. If I was a betting man, I would say that Cat's future plans, the Accords, gets tanked in the process of her taking him out. I wouldn't be surprised that she gains her Role from it either. Hells, her Role could BE the Accords, and will die with her.