Results 31 to 46 of 46
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2020-06-27, 05:44 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2009
- Location
- In my library
Re: Disney "Artemis Fowl" (note the quote, :smallyuk:)
Eh, there was a mistake ('hearing it was a thing made me...' is how the second paragraph should begin), and one thing that's not clear (the Book in the last sentence is the fairy book of rules, not the Artemis Fowl book). I can see how that made it harder to understand.
The thing about the series is that it's a children's to Young Adult series (remember when those weren't all about teenage girls in dystopias trying to decide which hot boy to kiss?), beginning with books that were aimed at roughly the same age range as the Harry Potter books, but had somewhat better writing and plotting (the worldbuilding is a bit meh, although there's some good bits). Taking that into account they're relatively good, I've read both better and worse, and back when I was the target age range I don't remember there being much competition.
But either the second or third book (I think the third, it's been a long time) was so boring when I was the target age that I just skipped most of it. Read all the way up to Lost Colony though before I began focusing my reading on other stuff. So it's not the absolute best series in the world, but I'd argue that it's stood the test of time slightly better than Harry Potter has (if only because it can get me to actually care about the Artemis/Holly relationship in a way that I didn't about any of the HP ones).
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2020-06-27, 06:11 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2007
- Location
- Lemuria
- Gender
Re: Disney "Artemis Fowl" (note the quote, :smallyuk:)
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2020-06-29, 10:37 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2007
- Location
- The Imagination
- Gender
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2020-06-29, 11:22 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2020
Re: Disney "Artemis Fowl" (note the quote, :smallyuk:)
It might have been a studio move, because you probably don't want your white child protagonist referring to the black man acting as his servant (that changed further on in the series, becoming more of a bodyguard) consistently as 'butler' only.
Of course, why Butler was black in the first place instead of 'Eurasian' like he and his family are described as being in the books is a wholly different question, seeing as his place of being raised has a certain importance to his upbringing. I don't claim to fully understand how studio executives go about casting characters, though.I draw, and I write sometimes! Drow paladin avatar by me. They/Them
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2020-06-29, 11:24 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2014
- Gender
Re: Disney "Artemis Fowl" (note the quote, :smallyuk:)
I found a fanfic that posits an explanation for the movie. I haven't seen the movie, but this is still a lot of fun anyway.
https://archiveofourown.org/works/24708697Spoiler: Pixel avatar and Raincloud Durkoala were made by me. The others are the work of Cuthalion.
Cuteness and Magic and Phone Moogles, oh my! Let's Watch Card Captor Sakura!Sadly on asmallhiatus.
Durkoala reads a book! It's about VR and the nineties!
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2020-06-29, 11:50 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2014
- Location
- Avatar By Astral Seal!
Re: Disney "Artemis Fowl" (note the quote, :smallyuk:)
Eh. I'm not that bothered by Butler being black. No, it's not what he was in the books, but that detail? That's unimportant. Changing Butler to a black guy does not affect the story in any significant way.
Now, changing him to use his name, among all the other stuff... That's a whole 'nother kettle of fish.I have a LOT of Homebrew!
Spoiler: Former AvatarsSpoiler: Avatar (Not In Use) By Linkele
Spoiler: Individual Avatar Pics
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2020-06-29, 12:00 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2009
- Location
- In my library
Re: Disney "Artemis Fowl" (note the quote, :smallyuk:)
To be fair, the book makes it clear that Butlers are bodyguards first and servants second.
Of course, why Butler was black in the first place instead of 'Eurasian' like he and his family are described as being in the books is a wholly different question, seeing as his place of being raised has a certain importance to his upbringing. I don't claim to fully understand how studio executives go about casting characters, though.
Honestly, I'm less annoyed at Butler being black and more at Holly being white. We could have had a great role for a South Asian actress and stayed closer to the book without sacrificing on acting ability, but no apparently fairies have to have pale skin.
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2020-06-29, 01:38 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2007
Re: Disney "Artemis Fowl" (note the quote, :smallyuk:)
This kind of scenario and brand swaping happens a lot in movie industry to the point, where Die Hard 4 was the first part in the series to have a script originally written for Die Hard. I do not remember, what the first one was supposed to be, but the second was originally an independent script that got rebranded as Die Hard and the third part was - as far as I remember - supposed to be a part of the Lethal Weapon series.
In a war it doesn't matter who's right, only who's left.
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2020-06-29, 01:39 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2010
- Gender
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2020-06-29, 01:50 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2009
- Location
- In my library
Re: Disney "Artemis Fowl" (note the quote, :smallyuk:)
Thought, would the film have worked with Artemis as Black Irish and Butler as a white servant? I think it would have done, you'd have got some complaints because book Artemis might have been described as white (I honestly don't pay that much attention), but less so than with Butler and the implications he brings to the table.
Especially when you remember that the Butler family's purpose to to provide the Fowl family (and other wealthy individuals) with bodyguards/servants. It's a problematic but workable arrangement with book butler, such a detail is much worse with the film version.
I'll note that Butler's original ethnicity has similar, but not as extreme, connotations, which I think is why the book makes a big deal about the position being named after the family.
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2020-06-29, 01:57 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2008
- Location
- Canada
- Gender
Re: Disney "Artemis Fowl" (note the quote, :smallyuk:)
Artemis is described as white in the books, but it's not a super important detail. It's usually used as a description when he's being overly mature and creeping out adults.
Having Butler being black makes calling him Butler awkward, but calling him Butler is a very important part of his personality and personal arc. So if you are just going for diversity, you shouldn't make him black. Find a different character to take that role.Spoiler: I'm a writer!Spoiler: Check out my fanfiction[URL="https://www.fanfiction.net/u/7493788/Forum-Explorer"here[/URL]
]Fate Stay Nano: Fate Stay Night x Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha
I Fell in Love with a Storm: MLP
Procrastination: MLP
Spoiler: Original FictionThe Lost Dragon: A story about a priest who finds a baby dragon in his church and decides to protect them.
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2020-06-29, 02:15 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2014
Re: Disney "Artemis Fowl" (note the quote, :smallyuk:)
Should've been Holly, with the caveat that it would require the story skew much closer to the first book. The dynamic between Holly and Artemis in later books stems from there.
Artemis is, at heart, a criminal, and clearly thinks of the Laws that bind the fairy folk as ridiculous restrictions to be exploited. The fact that fairies have magic and superior technology, and yet still got driven underground, cemented this fact in his mind. Holly being an officer of the law just makes her doubly-representative of everything he doesn't like about that kind of mindset, and it shows in how he treats her, locking her down, talking down to her, even when the tables are starting to turn he's holding the letter of the law against her as best he can. He doesn't really think of her as lesser, necessarily, but as restricted in ways he isn't, and he's willing and able to exploit that for his own gain.
Holly rejecting that framework by breaking out despite the rules placed on her, regaining her magic, and healing butler for all their sakes, ends up earning Artemis' respect in a roundabout way, and in turn he earns her respect despite his treatment of her by trading away a significant portion of the ransom for his mother's mental health. This is the seed from which their relationship in the coming books grows, and that whole dynamic would be aided by making it more explicitly a race thing. Portraying Artemis as a racist criminal 12 year old who gradually grows into a better person explicitly because he interacts with the people he thinks less of (everyone, sure, but primarily the fairy folk and in particular a fairy cop) is a very solid character arc and would maybe be something actually worth using as modern political commentary if handled properly.
But this is Disney, so of course it's gonna be completely family friendly and not actually have anything to say about it, it's just using casting and tiny insignificant moments to make noises as if they care. It's blatant virtue-signalling.
Currently Recruiting WW/Mafia: Logic's Deathloop Mafia and Book Wombat's A Small Wager - A Practical Guide To Evil
Avatar by AsteriskAmp
My Homebrew
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2020-06-29, 03:22 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2013
- Gender
Re: Disney "Artemis Fowl" (note the quote, :smallyuk:)
I don't think you can really translate the way Artemis looks down on fairy folk and considers them being lesser into something that applies to the real world. His initial motivations for this position aren't baseless, it is simple fact of reality that they lose their magic if they break their laws. The way people look down on real world groups in our world is not based on their literal inability to do certain things.
It is a similar problem to trying to interpret Zootopia as a story about actual racism. Sure, in-universe there are creatures fighting other creatures based on how they are born, but given that that particular fighting is based on an a past prey-predator relationship that does not exist among real word humans you really shouldn't try to read in-movie groups as specific real world groups.
Don't forget that in the first book Artemis his winning strategy is entirely based on fairies having to absolutely follow the rules. He exploits what he sees as their racial failing and gets rewarded for it. Perfectly fine in a story about a human fighting imagined creatures, but may have some unfortunate implications if you try to paint Artemis his view on fairy folk as something akin to what's happening in the real world. Artemis is the protagonist after all, I doubt many readers sided with the fairies against him or judged him based on his believes given that those believes were essential for his victory. So probably best to no make it too much about judging groups and just about not judging individuals. It takes a few books (and so by extension, a few movies) before Artemis decides he was wrong, and people might not get to those,
Then again, I am willing to bet that pretty much anything that requires the story to skew much closer to the first book than this abomination did would be better than what we got.Remember: Offence is taken, not given
Play-by-Post Characters:
Sir Balduin of Buckwood (OOC | IC)
High Priest Azrael (OOC | IC)
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2020-06-29, 04:57 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2013
Re: Disney "Artemis Fowl" (note the quote, :smallyuk:)
I view stuff like that essentially as fan fiction (though the worst stuff where they only take some names probably doesn't deserve to be called fan fiction.) And fan fiction is fine as long as you don't try to sell it to me as the original story. I wish you had to clearly declare that yours is a spin on the original (yes hard to draw a precise line but the wish isn't realistic anyway.)
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2020-06-29, 05:29 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2005
- Location
- Toronto, Canada
- Gender
Re: Disney "Artemis Fowl" (note the quote, :smallyuk:)
Yep, Zootopia is an extremely good story about intersectionality, but if you start trying to map it 1 to 1 you're going to have all sorts of problems.
As for Artemis Fowl and Butler, I would agree that Butler is probably the only person in the whole damned series that absolutely should not be black unless Artemis is, too. It's actual tokenism writ large; they want their key leads to be white, they want one person on screen to be black so that they aren't called out for racism, grab the most prominent person who isn't a main character, call it a day. There's a whole discussion about fantasy settings that exclusively have a single black person and it's always a middle-aged man who is in a role of martial subservience to the actual main character.
It's the same sort of thing that led to "the black dude always dies first" being an action/horror trope; they didn't die first because they were black, they died first because they were the least developed characters. But they were the least developed characters because the most-developed characters were always white, so...If you like my thoughts, you'll love my writing. Visit me at www.mishahandman.com.
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2020-06-30, 02:00 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2007
- Location
- The Imagination
- Gender
Re: Disney "Artemis Fowl" (note the quote, :smallyuk:)
Off topic, but that's actually why Zootopia works so well. If it DID map 1 to 1, it would come across as being preachy and high-handed if it was accurate and offensive if it was inaccurate. The fact that it doesn't means that the movie can make its points without having to be compared to the exact real-world circumstances of specific real-world races.