Classic Paladins

[paladinn]

Hola all,

Still working on my OSR hybrid game. I have a direction for "core" fighters, and I want to go back to paladins, rangers, etc. being sub-classes.

In OD&D, paladins had enhanced saving throws, detect evil, limited healing ("lay on hands"), immunity to disease, and the ability to "dispel evil" at will. I personally think that the dispel evil is too poorly-defined, and could be either very OP or UP, depending on interpretation.

AD&D 1e had all the above, minus the dispel evil. Instead it granted the ability to turn undead and to cast cleric spells (limited). BECMI gave detect evil, turning undead and cleric spells. 3e introduced the "smite evil" mechanic, extra damage against magically-evil opponents.

I'm considering one of two options for my game. Either the BECMI model, where a paladin gets detect evil, enhanced saves, turning undead and cleric spells (at 1/3 level); or the same, giving smite evil and limited healing instead of cleric spells. I personally prefer to leave actual spells to actual spell-casters (i.e. clerics, druids and mages)

Any thoughts?

[LibraryOgre]

I kind of prefer Paladins as simply special... I'd be inclined to give them special abilities that mimic certain spells, rather than spells themselves.

[paladinn]

I kind of prefer Paladins as simply special... I'd be inclined to give them special abilities that mimic certain spells, rather than spells themselves.

I agree. It also helps to distinguish paladins from clerics. I read a lot of posts along the lines of, "Why do we need both?"

[LibraryOgre]

I agree. It also helps to distinguish paladins from clerics. I read a lot of posts along the lines of, "Why do we need both?"

So, it's a bit more "new school" that I know you're aiming for, but my inclination would be to give Paladins a simple "You get this spell as a permanent ability, or with X per day limitations."

One paladin is ALWAYS Blessed. They radiate Bless, giving themselves, and all of their allies, +1 to hit and +1 on saves v. fear."

[paladinn]

So, it's a bit more "new school" that I know you're aiming for, but my inclination would be to give Paladins a simple "You get this spell as a permanent ability, or with X per day limitations."

One paladin is ALWAYS Blessed. They radiate Bless, giving themselves, and all of their allies, +1 to hit and +1 on saves v. fear."

I'm actually more old school than new. But if I don't give paladins actual spells, they do need something to justify the sub-class I think.

I'm giving them the +2 saves and detect evil; probably turning undead (at 1/3 cleric level); and some sort of smite evil, which should be easier to manage than OD&D's dispel evil.

So for a smite attack: 3e and C&C define smite evil as adding the paladin's Cha bonus to an attack role and +1damage/paladin level. It can be used 1/day/5 levels. In Pathfinder, if the target is undead, a fiend, dragon, etc., the extra damage is doubled, and it can be used 1/day/3 levels.

In 5e, a paladin smites by burning spell slots. A 1st level slot gets an extra +2d8 damage, with an extra +1d8 per spell level over 1st, for a max of +5d8, with an extra +1d8 if the target is undead or a fiend.

Since I would not be giving paladins spells, I would need to give "smite points" equal to a paladin's total spell slot levels. In 5e, a 10th level paladin would have 14 "smite points". If I did this, I would just start it out with an extra 1d8/smite point, with a max of 5 points on a given attack.

I wonder which makes more sense

[Duff]

I feel the fear immunity is also iconic

[paladinn]

Not sure if that was part of the original design, but it is a cool ability