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  1. - Top - End - #31
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    Default Re: Baldur's Gate III (2)

    Quote Originally Posted by Kish View Post
    I think you're greatly understating how much of its failure came from things unrelated to how close its design was to D&D, such as "it was a buggy mess that needed to be fixed by fan-patches" and "the writing was godawful."
    As much as I think faithfully translating 3E rules to a video game is a poor idea (and Kingmaker has done a lot to reassure me of that), it really was among the least of ToEE's problems, yes. I distinctly remember wandering around an extensive dungeon and not knowing what I was actually doing there. Or fun things like multiple Rays of Enfeeblement stacking.
    Last edited by Morty; 2020-06-30 at 04:58 AM.
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    Default Re: Baldur's Gate III (2)

    Quote Originally Posted by Morty View Post
    As much as I think faithfully translating 3E rules to a video game is a poor idea (and Kingmaker has done a lot to reassure me of that), it really was among the least of ToEE's problems, yes. I distinctly remember wandering around an extensive dungeon and not knowing what I was actually doing there. Or fun things like multiple Rays of Enfeeblement stacking.
    Uh, Kingmaker was a smash hit, not just as a Kickstarter game but as a AA CRPG in general - and together with DOS2's success is likely the reason we're even getting BG3 to begin with. And for two such franchises (three if you count Pillars) to succeed without D&D's branding juggernaut behind them that's especially impressive.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
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  3. - Top - End - #33
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    Default Re: Baldur's Gate III (2)

    Interesting. I confess that a person who plays BG2+ToB every two or three years, I couldn't finish Kingmaker. I found the combat gameplay underwhelming and the kingdom management just ended up demotivating me, which was disappointing given how excited I had been for the game to come out.

    I agree that Kingmaker and DOS2 were probably important in the interest of WotC to make a new BG game, but my guess would be that teh release of Beamdog's enhanced editions of the original games were the main direct cause. They released an interquel, and hired David Gaider away from Bioware in what everyone interpreted as getting ready to work on BG3.
    Last edited by Clertar; 2020-07-01 at 04:32 AM.
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  4. - Top - End - #34
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    Default Re: Baldur's Gate III (2)

    Quote Originally Posted by Clertar View Post
    Interesting. I confess that a person who plays BG2+ToB every two or three years, I couldn't finish Kingmaker. I found the combat gameplay underwhelming and the kingdom management just ended up demotivating me, which was disappointing given how excited I had been for the game to come out.

    I agree that Kingmaker and DOS2 were probably important in the interest of WotC to make a new BG game, but my guess would be that teh release of Beamdog's enhanced editions of the original games were the main direct cause. They released an interquel, and hired David Gaider away from Bioware in what everyone interpreted as getting ready to work on BG3.
    Im given to understand that the Beamdog remasters were appreciated mostly because they let you play the games on modern systems more than for any of the new stuff they put out, which tended to be mediocre for the most part.
    Last edited by Keltest; 2020-07-01 at 08:12 AM.
    “Evil is evil. Lesser, greater, middling, it's all the same. Proportions are negotiated, boundaries blurred. I'm not a pious hermit, I haven't done only good in my life. But if I'm to choose between one evil and another, then I prefer not to choose at all.”

  5. - Top - End - #35
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    Default Re: Baldur's Gate III (2)

    Quote Originally Posted by Clertar View Post
    Interesting. I confess that a person who plays BG2+ToB every two or three years, I couldn't finish Kingmaker. I found the combat gameplay underwhelming and the kingdom management just ended up demotivating me, which was disappointing given how excited I had been for the game to come out.

    I agree that Kingmaker and DOS2 were probably important in the interest of WotC to make a new BG game, but my guess would be that teh release of Beamdog's enhanced editions of the original games were the main direct cause. They released an interquel, and hired David Gaider away from Bioware in what everyone interpreted as getting ready to work on BG3.
    Worth noting that there are mods that basically play the kingdom management stuff for you, letting you focus on NWN-style hack-and-slash/dungeon-crawling.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
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  6. - Top - End - #36
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    Default Re: Baldur's Gate III (2)

    Kingmaker was, for me, one of the straightest examples of "more of the sum of its parts". Neither the fights, nor the plot/writing/companions, nor the kindgom management were very good (I played with the turn-based mod to make the fights at least somewhat interesting), but the game had just the right balance and variety between all these things to keep me hooked until the end.

    Personally, I would say it succeeds despite its choice to faithfully adapt a tabletop ruleset, and not because of it.

    That said, Divinity: Original Sin 1 and 2 are some of my all-time favorite RPGs, gameplay-wise, so I'm interested in how Larian will approach this challenge.

  7. - Top - End - #37
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    Default Re: Baldur's Gate III (2)

    Quite why so many people seem to like Kingmaker is one of those mysteries of life I'll never be able to plumb. Like people who like raisins. So it goes sometimes.

    I've decided I'll probably play a dwarf bard if I do play BG3. It's probably too much to hope for that fighters, rogues or rangers (my first choices) will be very fun or satisfying, but bards seem to strike a good balance between having skills and spells. And I want a dwarf bard because I like to buck stereotypes, even if the attribute bonus mismatch is annoying. I'll probably also play a half-elf wizard, for old times' sake - it was my most-played character in the original trilogy.
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  8. - Top - End - #38
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    Default Re: Baldur's Gate III (2)

    Quote Originally Posted by Morty View Post
    Quite why so many people seem to like Kingmaker is one of those mysteries of life I'll never be able to plumb. Like people who like raisins. So it goes sometimes.

    I've decided I'll probably play a dwarf bard if I do play BG3. It's probably too much to hope for that fighters, rogues or rangers (my first choices) will be very fun or satisfying, but bards seem to strike a good balance between having skills and spells. And I want a dwarf bard because I like to buck stereotypes, even if the attribute bonus mismatch is annoying. I'll probably also play a half-elf wizard, for old times' sake - it was my most-played character in the original trilogy.
    Assuming they match reasonably close to 5e in terms of stats, a dwarf bard actually has a decent amount of combat potential. Any of the melee bards benefits from extra str or dex, con is nice for everybody, and you can either get some extra HP or medium armor depending on your subrace.

    Its not super minmaxed, but dwarves are tough, and bards can appreciate that.
    “Evil is evil. Lesser, greater, middling, it's all the same. Proportions are negotiated, boundaries blurred. I'm not a pious hermit, I haven't done only good in my life. But if I'm to choose between one evil and another, then I prefer not to choose at all.”

  9. - Top - End - #39
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    Default Re: Baldur's Gate III (2)

    Quote Originally Posted by Keltest View Post
    Assuming they match reasonably close to 5e in terms of stats, a dwarf bard actually has a decent amount of combat potential. Any of the melee bards benefits from extra str or dex, con is nice for everybody, and you can either get some extra HP or medium armor depending on your subrace.

    Its not super minmaxed, but dwarves are tough, and bards can appreciate that.
    I was planning a ranged bard with a bow or crossbow, but I suppose I can make a concession and make a melee one instead.
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  10. - Top - End - #40
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    Default Re: Baldur's Gate III (2)

    Quote Originally Posted by Morty View Post
    I was planning a ranged bard with a bow or crossbow, but I suppose I can make a concession and make a melee one instead.
    Either/or. Everybody appreciates being tough. But there are a few different bard colleges that give you extra attacks and abilities for melee, while i dont think there are any that specifically boost marksmanship.
    “Evil is evil. Lesser, greater, middling, it's all the same. Proportions are negotiated, boundaries blurred. I'm not a pious hermit, I haven't done only good in my life. But if I'm to choose between one evil and another, then I prefer not to choose at all.”

  11. - Top - End - #41
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    Default Re: Baldur's Gate III (2)

    All I really want to know is whether this game will require you to gather your party before venturing forth.

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    Default Re: Baldur's Gate III (2)

    Huh... haven’t really been excited for a AAA game in a long time.

    Edit: lol @ Saintheart. I can hear it...
    Last edited by danzibr; 2020-08-14 at 07:59 AM.

  13. - Top - End - #43
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    Default Re: Baldur's Gate III (2)

    I think any new D&D game will stand or fall on how easy it is for GMs to write their own modules, and/or host their own servers. That was ToEE's biggest failure - it basically wasn't designed to be modded at all, the community patch was a testament to the determination and knowhow of a small number of fan/hackers.

    Conversely, NWN's great strength is the huge library of fan modules and mods that you can still download for it. NWN2 was harder to mod, which was particularly sad because its original campaign also marked an all-time low (so far) in writing quality.
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  14. - Top - End - #44
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    Default Re: Baldur's Gate III (2)

    DOS2, at least, has a fairly thriving modding community and, while i havent explored it, specific infrastructure to support player-made modules with an explicit DM mode in case you feel like antagonizing your friends that day. It is at least something theyre aware of.
    “Evil is evil. Lesser, greater, middling, it's all the same. Proportions are negotiated, boundaries blurred. I'm not a pious hermit, I haven't done only good in my life. But if I'm to choose between one evil and another, then I prefer not to choose at all.”

  15. - Top - End - #45
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    Default Re: Baldur's Gate III (2)

    Quote Originally Posted by veti View Post
    I think any new D&D game will stand or fall on how easy it is for GMs to write their own modules, and/or host their own servers.
    That would make Kingmaker's runaway success as incomprehensible to anyone who holds that position as it apparently is to Morty.

  16. - Top - End - #46
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    Default Re: Baldur's Gate III (2)

    Has anyone played both divinity original sin and baldur's gate? How do they compare?

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    Default Re: Baldur's Gate III (2)

    I've played Divinity Original Sin 1 and Baldur's Gate 1 & 2 (with expansions, but not Dragonspear). They aren't really comparable. They're both RPGs set in Medieval-ish high fantasy, and that's about it.

  18. - Top - End - #48
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    Default Re: Baldur's Gate III (2)

    Baldur's Gate is a timeless classic that's really showing its age by now and I find DOS2 massively overrated. BG3 is visually very similar to DOS2, but using D&D 5E rules means the comparisons only go so far.
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  19. - Top - End - #49
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    Default Re: Baldur's Gate III (2)

    Quote Originally Posted by Morty View Post
    Baldur's Gate is a timeless classic that's really showing its age by now and I find DOS2 massively overrated. BG3 is visually very similar to DOS2, but using D&D 5E rules means the comparisons only go so far.
    In general, my DOS experience has been significantly closer to that of an actual D&D game, mostly because RTWP is just a terrible game mode in general compared to turn based, and i honestly wonder now if significant damage wasnt done to the genre and its accessibility by trying to stick with it over just sucking it up and playing more like the source material.
    “Evil is evil. Lesser, greater, middling, it's all the same. Proportions are negotiated, boundaries blurred. I'm not a pious hermit, I haven't done only good in my life. But if I'm to choose between one evil and another, then I prefer not to choose at all.”

  20. - Top - End - #50
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    Default Re: Baldur's Gate III (2)

    Question: is this game turn-based?
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  21. - Top - End - #51
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    Default Re: Baldur's Gate III (2)

    Quote Originally Posted by danzibr View Post
    Question: is this game turn-based?
    It is, yes.
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  22. - Top - End - #52
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    Default Re: Baldur's Gate III (2)

    Early access is set for September 30: https://www.gameinformer.com/2020/08...tails-revealed
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    Default Re: Baldur's Gate III (2)

    Quote Originally Posted by Clertar View Post
    Early access is set for September 30: https://www.gameinformer.com/2020/08...tails-revealed
    Early access for a year? That's a bummer. But it is what it is.

    I'm looking forward to giving it a whirl. Looks like fun.

  24. - Top - End - #54
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    Default Re: Baldur's Gate III (2)

    If there is a month when I have an extra 60$ for entertainment I will pick it up but I won't play until it is out of EA. I hate playing RPGs in EA.
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    Default Re: Baldur's Gate III (2)

    Quote Originally Posted by Jamin View Post
    If there is a month when I have an extra 60$ for entertainment I will pick it up but I won't play until it is out of EA. I hate playing RPGs in EA.
    I hate playing any game in EA. I really don't see the appeal.

    But I'm a special case. I consider most games to be in "Early Access" up and until the last DLC/content update is released. I like to play my games in a finished state, thank you very much.

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    Default Re: Baldur's Gate III (2)

    Quote Originally Posted by Jamin View Post
    If there is a month when I have an extra 60$ for entertainment I will pick it up but I won't play until it is out of EA. I hate playing RPGs in EA.
    I typically don't play EA either. But my wife has me playing Grounded with her, which is only 20% complete right now. So I figure what the heck, I'll give Baldur's Gate a try.

  27. - Top - End - #57
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    Default Re: Baldur's Gate III (2)

    In a recent panel they also revealed that the game will start in Avernus, in the middle of the Blood War, before moving back to Faerūn, in the area near Balgur's Gate that we had seen. So far, I like how they lean into FR lore for the plot, rather than using it as a generic fantasy setting sprinkled with FR details.
    Last edited by Clertar; 2020-09-05 at 04:49 AM.
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  28. - Top - End - #58
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    Default Re: Baldur's Gate III (2)

    Quote Originally Posted by Clertar View Post
    In a recent panel they also revealed that the game will start in Avernus, in the middle of the Blood War, before moving back to Faerūn, in the area near Balgur's Gate that we had seen. So far, I like how they lean into FR lore for the plot, rather than using it as a generic fantasy setting sprinkled with FR details.
    Avernus was one of the evil Planes, right?
    And the Blood War?

    That really doesn't sound like good place* to start a adventure. Unless you're starting on a higher level/with very good gear/powers or in one of the few safe-ish places, with the clashing fiends being closer to background noise this sounds like a bad time for the MC/party- more so than usual on the lower planes.
    With the running and the screaming and the gruesome deaths.

    *Pun not intended.
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  29. - Top - End - #59
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    Default Re: Baldur's Gate III (2)

    Quote Originally Posted by Kantaki View Post
    Avernus was one of the evil Planes, right?
    And the Blood War?

    That really doesn't sound like good place* to start a adventure. Unless you're starting on a higher level/with very good gear/powers or in one of the few safe-ish places, with the clashing fiends being closer to background noise this sounds like a bad time for the MC/party- more so than usual on the lower planes.
    With the running and the screaming and the gruesome deaths.

    *Pun not intended.
    Yep, Avernus is the first layer of the nine hells . And it is where much of the of Blood War takes place.

    I'm running Descent into Avernus for my players, which is apparently the prelude to Baldur's Gate III. In it, players go to Avernus as early as 5th or 6th level. And also in Avernus there are numerous low level NPC civilians hiding out trying to survive until the heroes can rescue them.

    So low level people can survive in hell. If only by the skin of their teeth.
    Last edited by xroads; 2020-09-05 at 02:38 PM.

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    Default Re: Baldur's Gate III (2)

    Quote Originally Posted by Clertar View Post
    In a recent panel they also revealed that the game will start in Avernus, in the middle of the Blood War, before moving back to Faerūn, in the area near Balgur's Gate that we had seen. So far, I like how they lean into FR lore for the plot, rather than using it as a generic fantasy setting sprinkled with FR details.
    The gameplay video they showed earlier this year contradicts this. It showed the first couple hours of the game, and the Nine Hells were nowhere in sight. I took their reference to Avernus to mean that the game would follow the events of Descent into Avernus like the previous games followed the Time of Troubles, not that it'd actually start there.
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