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  1. - Top - End - #61
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    Default Re: Baldur's Gate III (2)

    Quote Originally Posted by Narkis View Post
    The gameplay video they showed earlier this year contradicts this. It showed the first couple hours of the game, and the Nine Hells were nowhere in sight. I took their reference to Avernus to mean that the game would follow the events of Descent into Avernus like the previous games followed the Time of Troubles, not that it'd actually start there.
    You are right, the reveal that I mention was unvelied at a very recent panel, just a few weeks ago (watch the trailer, now with a modified ending; they also discuss the details later). Maybe it was a slight diversion, waiting to reveal more plot details later on, or maybe they were considering different orders of areas for the start of the game.

    From what I've gathered, the attacked illithid ship will plane shift to Avernus trying to evade the chase. That's where the game will start, before the party is able to gain some control of the ship and move back to Faerûn, which I suppose will be the area near Baldur's Gate where we saw the gameplay showcase start.
    Last edited by Clertar; 2020-09-05 at 04:02 PM.
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  2. - Top - End - #62
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    Default Re: Baldur's Gate III (2)

    Ah, so it's gonna be Avernus when you look outside the windows in the tutorial before the ship crashes. Then this doesn't contradict the earlier video that started after the ship crashed. Though I think it counts as the game starting in Avernus only on a technicality.
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  3. - Top - End - #63
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    Default Re: Baldur's Gate III (2)

    The EA release is just a couple of days away. I think I'll pick it up at some point during the Fall, I'm nostalgic and invested enough that I even see it as something interesting that the game will improve and grow after a the first few times of playing it.

    Ahead of that we got some pretty interesting information about character creation released, PC races (quite a few!) and classes for the EA stage. This is looking pretty good to me, I can't help but get a little excited about the game.

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    Last edited by Clertar; 2020-10-04 at 10:22 AM.
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  4. - Top - End - #64
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    Default Re: Baldur's Gate III (2)

    Im super hyped. I dont normally buy into EA games, but i may make an exception here. Larian has done good by me so far, i think theyve earned a bit of trust.
    “Evil is evil. Lesser, greater, middling, it's all the same. Proportions are negotiated, boundaries blurred. I'm not a pious hermit, I haven't done only good in my life. But if I'm to choose between one evil and another, then I prefer not to choose at all.”

  5. - Top - End - #65
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    Default Re: Baldur's Gate III (2)

    Early Access isn't bad, as long as everything is open and transparent, as seems to be the case here. I won't be getting into it myself, but I will watch others' impressions closely. I'm interested but sceptical (5E D&D isn't exactly a stellar ruleset and I don't trust Larian), so that should help me decide.
    Last edited by Morty; 2020-10-04 at 10:38 AM.
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  6. - Top - End - #66
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    Default Re: Baldur's Gate III (2)

    Quote Originally Posted by Morty View Post
    Early Access isn't bad, as long as everything is open and transparent, as seems to be the case here. I won't be getting into it myself, but I will watch others' impressions closely. I'm interested but sceptical (5E D&D isn't exactly a stellar ruleset and I don't trust Larian), so that should help me decide.
    As in Larian has done some shady ****, or as n you do not like their games?

  7. - Top - End - #67
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    Default Re: Baldur's Gate III (2)

    Quote Originally Posted by Dienekes View Post
    As in Larian has done some shady ****, or as n you do not like their games?
    I don't like their games after bouncing pretty hard off Divinity: Original Sin 2.
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  8. - Top - End - #68
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    Default Re: Baldur's Gate III (2)

    Quote Originally Posted by Morty View Post
    I don't like their games after bouncing pretty hard off Divinity: Original Sin 2.
    Ahh fair enough. I personally enjoyed dos2 but with all the crap coming up in the news about the game industry wanted to be certain before giving them any money.

  9. - Top - End - #69
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    Default Re: Baldur's Gate III (2)

    Quote Originally Posted by Morty View Post
    I don't like their games after bouncing pretty hard off Divinity: Original Sin 2.
    Not sure what that has to do with trust. If you just dont like the style of game, that sounds like a personal issue, not a problem with the company.
    “Evil is evil. Lesser, greater, middling, it's all the same. Proportions are negotiated, boundaries blurred. I'm not a pious hermit, I haven't done only good in my life. But if I'm to choose between one evil and another, then I prefer not to choose at all.”

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    Default Re: Baldur's Gate III (2)

    Quote Originally Posted by Keltest View Post
    Not sure what that has to do with trust. If you just dont like the style of game, that sounds like a personal issue, not a problem with the company.
    This sounds needlessly hostile. And I'm not Morty, but I know I don't trust Larian to make a proper, serious RPG that does not descend into self-parody like D:OS.
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    Default Re: Baldur's Gate III (2)

    Quote Originally Posted by Narkis View Post
    This sounds needlessly hostile. And I'm not Morty, but I know I don't trust Larian to make a proper, serious RPG that does not descend into self-parody like D:OS.
    Yeah, I do apologize. That was about as non-hostile as i could think of at the time, but I'm not in a good headspace right now and am on mobile. But if you dont like it then... you just dont like it. That doesnt mean it's bad or that they can't do it differently.

    I'm also a little unclear on how serious the series that brought us minsc and boo is expected to be. BG 1 was pretty lighthearted, all things considered.
    “Evil is evil. Lesser, greater, middling, it's all the same. Proportions are negotiated, boundaries blurred. I'm not a pious hermit, I haven't done only good in my life. But if I'm to choose between one evil and another, then I prefer not to choose at all.”

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    Default Re: Baldur's Gate III (2)

    Quote Originally Posted by Narkis View Post
    This sounds needlessly hostile. And I'm not Morty, but I know I don't trust Larian to make a proper, serious RPG that does not descend into self-parody like D:OS.
    Don’t you fight a group of low level adventurers in the original Baldur’s Gate only for you to beat them and they save scum to try and talk to you again peacefully?

    Can’t really get more self parody than that.

    But regardless, I agree with you that it’s pretty clear Morty meant he did not trust them to make a good game he would enjoy. No reason to get up in arms about it.

  13. - Top - End - #73
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    Default Re: Baldur's Gate III (2)

    "Goofiness" and less-serious elements of a story can take many different forms and be pretty subjective. Baldur's Gate had such elements for sure and so did Divinity. But it's not unreasonable to accept them in one but not the other, since the style was pretty different. And I think Divinity leans on them a lot more.
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  14. - Top - End - #74
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    Default Re: Baldur's Gate III (2)

    Quote Originally Posted by Morty View Post
    "Goofiness" and less-serious elements of a story can take many different forms and be pretty subjective. Baldur's Gate had such elements for sure and so did Divinity. But it's not unreasonable to accept them in one but not the other, since the style was pretty different. And I think Divinity leans on them a lot more.
    I'm not sure I agree. My main takeaway from most of the quests and such in Divinity was "wow, living in this world sucks. " I hate talking to the animals because almost all of them with anything meaningful to say are super depressing, and not in a way that's played for laughs. Your main buddy Gareth has to either murder a childhood friend or bury his parents. In the endings, the level of personal prize you choose is inverse to how well you're able to leverage it for real positive change, to the point where you literally have to give up your personality to fully save the world.

    If there are goofball elements and meta humor, it's because the story really needs it to avoid being unbearable heavy and dark.
    Last edited by Keltest; 2020-10-04 at 06:39 PM.

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    Default Re: Baldur's Gate III (2)

    Quote Originally Posted by Keltest View Post
    I'm not sure I agree. My main takeaway from most of the quests and such in Divinity was "wow, living in this world sucks. " I hate talking to the animals because almost all of them with anything meaningful to say are super depressing, and not in a way that's played for laughs. Your main buddy Gareth has to either murder a childhood friend or bury his parents. In the endings, the level of personal prize you choose is inverse to how well you're able to leverage it for real positive change, to the point where you literally have to give up your personality to fully save the world.

    If there are goofball elements and meta humor, it's because the story really needs it to avoid being unbearable heavy and dark.
    The combination of goofball and bleak as hell has been Larian's writing style for a while now, since at least Divinity 2. Divine Divinity is pretty much just bleak, in a sort of low key way. Dragon Commander is I guess less bleak, but it's also so fundamentally weird at all levels (strafe these dudes in a third person dragon action game inside an RTS inside a TBS inside a geopolitical dating sim) it's honestly sort of difficult to pin down to anything.

    That said, goofy but bleak is in some ways, a pretty good structural fit for the basic assumptions of this sort of cRPG. To wit:
    1) You should be allowed to murder people who irritate you.
    2) You should be materially rewarded for every decision.
    3) You are super special and will save the world via the medium of killing 95% of the people, and 99% of the wildlife, you encounter.

    Basically the fate of the universe rests in the blood-soaked hand of a psychotic mass murderer who's main claim to fame is being a better mass murderer than everybody else, and since about 60% of the sapient population in most RPGs seems to be sadistic bandits, there's a lot of competition. The concept is, at a foundational level, both goofy and incredibly depressing.

    Really, in a lot of ways Doomguy is a lot more pro-social of a protagonist than your standard RPG hero.
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    Down like a dog on the highway,
    And he lay in his blood on the highway, with the bunch of lace at his throat.


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  16. - Top - End - #76
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    Default Re: Baldur's Gate III (2)

    I'm going to wait until there's a DLC to increase the level cap, hopefully up to level 15.
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    Default Re: Baldur's Gate III (2)

    Quote Originally Posted by warty goblin View Post
    That said, goofy but bleak is in some ways, a pretty good structural fit for the basic assumptions of this sort of cRPG. To wit:
    1) You should be allowed to murder people who irritate you.
    2) You should be materially rewarded for every decision.
    3) You are super special and will save the world via the medium of killing 95% of the people, and 99% of the wildlife, you encounter.

    Basically the fate of the universe rests in the blood-soaked hand of a psychotic mass murderer who's main claim to fame is being a better mass murderer than everybody else, and since about 60% of the sapient population in most RPGs seems to be sadistic bandits, there's a lot of competition. The concept is, at a foundational level, both goofy and incredibly depressing.

    Really, in a lot of ways Doomguy is a lot more pro-social of a protagonist than your standard RPG hero.
    Huh. On reflection, it's somewhat concerning just how on the nose this really is.

  18. - Top - End - #78
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    Default Re: Baldur's Gate III (2)

    Quote Originally Posted by warty goblin View Post
    The combination of goofball and bleak as hell has been Larian's writing style for a while now, since at least Divinity 2. Divine Divinity is pretty much just bleak, in a sort of low key way. Dragon Commander is I guess less bleak, but it's also so fundamentally weird at all levels (strafe these dudes in a third person dragon action game inside an RTS inside a TBS inside a geopolitical dating sim) it's honestly sort of difficult to pin down to anything.

    That said, goofy but bleak is in some ways, a pretty good structural fit for the basic assumptions of this sort of cRPG. To wit:
    1) You should be allowed to murder people who irritate you.
    2) You should be materially rewarded for every decision.
    3) You are super special and will save the world via the medium of killing 95% of the people, and 99% of the wildlife, you encounter.

    Basically the fate of the universe rests in the blood-soaked hand of a psychotic mass murderer who's main claim to fame is being a better mass murderer than everybody else, and since about 60% of the sapient population in most RPGs seems to be sadistic bandits, there's a lot of competition. The concept is, at a foundational level, both goofy and incredibly depressing.

    Really, in a lot of ways Doomguy is a lot more pro-social of a protagonist than your standard RPG hero.
    "Hahaha, aren't cRPG universes so silly" deconstructions got old for me a while ago, honestly. Yes, the average cRPG world doesn't make a lot of sense; I accept that when I start playing. So I'd rather have characters I can invest in.

    Quote Originally Posted by DarthArminius View Post
    I'm going to wait until there's a DLC to increase the level cap, hopefully up to level 15.
    I certainly hope they don't do that. No D&D game has ever functioned terribly well past level 10.
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    Default Re: Baldur's Gate III (2)

    Quote Originally Posted by Morty View Post
    "Hahaha, aren't cRPG universes so silly" deconstructions got old for me a while ago, honestly. Yes, the average cRPG world doesn't make a lot of sense; I accept that when I start playing. So I'd rather have characters I can invest in.
    I’m guessing you might just not like this game franchise then. Hell everything Warty brought up is referenced or eluded to in Baldur’s Gate already. There’s a reason you’re the child of the literal God of Murder and you can ascend to become the new God of Murder which you accomplish by murdering people.

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    Default Re: Baldur's Gate III (2)

    Quote Originally Posted by Dienekes View Post
    I’m guessing you might just not like this game franchise then. Hell everything Warty brought up is referenced or eluded to in Baldur’s Gate already. There’s a reason you’re the child of the literal God of Murder and you can ascend to become the new God of Murder which you accomplish by murdering people.
    I never got this kind of experience from the original Baldur's Gate at all.
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  21. - Top - End - #81
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    Default Re: Baldur's Gate III (2)

    Quote Originally Posted by Morty View Post
    I never got this kind of experience from the original Baldur's Gate at all.
    Out of curiosity, how long has it been since the last time you played? Because the trail of blood and gore you leave in your wake is kind of a central theme, especially of the second one.
    “Evil is evil. Lesser, greater, middling, it's all the same. Proportions are negotiated, boundaries blurred. I'm not a pious hermit, I haven't done only good in my life. But if I'm to choose between one evil and another, then I prefer not to choose at all.”

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    Default Re: Baldur's Gate III (2)

    Quote Originally Posted by Keltest View Post
    Out of curiosity, how long has it been since the last time you played? Because the trail of blood and gore you leave in your wake is kind of a central theme, especially of the second one.
    I'm not sure where I claimed you don't kill many people in Baldur's Gate.
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    Default Re: Baldur's Gate III (2)

    Quote Originally Posted by Morty View Post
    I'm not sure where I claimed you don't kill many people in Baldur's Gate.
    I never said you did? But having a high body count and the game making that body count a central theme are different things.
    “Evil is evil. Lesser, greater, middling, it's all the same. Proportions are negotiated, boundaries blurred. I'm not a pious hermit, I haven't done only good in my life. But if I'm to choose between one evil and another, then I prefer not to choose at all.”

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    Default Re: Baldur's Gate III (2)

    Quote Originally Posted by Keltest View Post
    making that body count a central theme
    It's not really particularly reinforced by anything other than ominous talks from the big bads and some talks about greater destiny even if your character has only "murdered" in self-defense (so, like, half of BG1) or killed the generally acceptable targets like, well, monsters. Even when people in your party go like "aren't you worried about your taint influencing you to murder things?", they don't really mind participating in yet another standard issue D&D slaughter.

    Hence why I can imagine it was missable. And while I don't necessarily agree with Morty, I can certainly understand the point of view that says "Larian's brand of humour is still a degree more absurd than the appearances of Noober, Tiax, Minsc or Larry/Darryl/Darryl".
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    Default Re: Baldur's Gate III (2)

    Quote Originally Posted by Dienekes View Post
    I’m guessing you might just not like this game franchise then. Hell everything Warty brought up is referenced or eluded to in Baldur’s Gate already.
    Tosh.

    I don't even know what you're talking about with 1 and 2, unless it's "the game lets you act like a murderous mercenary thug if you choose, instead of putting you on you're-the-hero rails like some much older CRPGs." For 3, the game does try to hard-sell you "the fact that you've killed all these people proves you're the inherently evil child of the God of Murder," but unless you've been choosing to act like a murderous mercenary thug (hmm...), you can look back at everyone you've killed and know that, just like in the significantly-higher-body-count Icewind Dale games, they all attacked you or someone else first, making the case better that they were all "children of the literal God of Murder" and thus driven to murder, than that you are. And then, for all Throne of Bhaal's failings, you can become a god of pure good based on your choices*, and you're not tilted toward becoming a god of evil if you choose to ascend.

    *Again--unless you've been clicking the "I am a murderous mercenary thug" dialogue options. Hm, I might know why you described the game the way you did, after all...
    Last edited by Kish; 2020-10-05 at 04:04 PM.

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    Default Re: Baldur's Gate III (2)

    Quote Originally Posted by Kish View Post
    Tosh.

    I don't even know what you're talking about with 1 and 2, unless it's "the game lets you act like a murderous mercenary thug if you choose, instead of putting you on you're-the-hero rails like some much older CRPGs." For 3, the game does try to hard-sell you "the fact that you've killed all these people proves you're the inherently evil child of the God of Murder," but unless you've been choosing to act like a murderous mercenary thug (hmm...), you can look back at everyone you've killed and know that, just like in the significantly-higher-body-count Icewind Dale games, they all attacked you or someone else first, making the case better that they were all "children of the literal God of Murder" and thus driven to murder, than that you are.
    I never mentioned whether you were or were not justified in said murders. Some folks need to be eliminated. But I am saying the narrative and the world follow Warty’s model of a cRPG directly and what’s more the game recognizes and comments upon how this method of gaining power is kinda horrifying. And it’s not all that subtle about it.

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    Default Re: Baldur's Gate III (2)

    Quote Originally Posted by Winthur View Post
    Hence why I can imagine it was missable. And while I don't necessarily agree with Morty, I can certainly understand the point of view that says "Larian's brand of humour is still a degree more absurd than the appearances of Noober, Tiax, Minsc or Larry/Darryl/Darryl".
    Larian's brand of humor honestly doesn't bother me, or it wouldn't if I didn't find their games janky and annoying regardless of that. But I do certainly find it different than Baldur's Gate goofy humor, for better or worse. I hesitate to say I prefer Baldur's Gate's, because I know it's tinged by nostalgia. I was mostly protesting what I felt was aimlessly edgy commentary from warty goblin.
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    Default Re: Baldur's Gate III (2)

    Early access is out, and I watched Quill go through the tutorial. And I'm really surprised to say it, but it actually looks good? The section within the Nautiloid reminded me of KOTOR's Endar Spire, and the few dialogues I saw were very much free of the Larian humour that turned me off the D:OS games. I think I've updated my outlook from "cautiously pessimistic" to "somewhat excited". It'll never be worthy of that "3" in its title, of course, but it might actually be a good game if the quality of writing doesn't dip later on.
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    Default Re: Baldur's Gate III (2)

    So far its matched my tabletop experience. Failed the first perception check and got a natural 1 on my very first active roll. Its great!
    “Evil is evil. Lesser, greater, middling, it's all the same. Proportions are negotiated, boundaries blurred. I'm not a pious hermit, I haven't done only good in my life. But if I'm to choose between one evil and another, then I prefer not to choose at all.”

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    Default Re: Baldur's Gate III (2)

    Quote Originally Posted by Morty View Post
    Larian's brand of humor honestly doesn't bother me, or it wouldn't if I didn't find their games janky and annoying regardless of that. But I do certainly find it different than Baldur's Gate goofy humor, for better or worse. I hesitate to say I prefer Baldur's Gate's, because I know it's tinged by nostalgia. I was mostly protesting what I felt was aimlessly edgy commentary from warty goblin.
    I have to say, aimlessly edgy is the best piece of shade anybody has ever thrown my way, thanks!

    (Not even joking, it's genuinely fantastic. Excellent name for a punk rock band made up entirely of upper class suburban kids as well.)

    For the sake of clarity, I'm not even really holding that bit of rather pedestrian analysis against fantasy RPGs. I like fantasy RPGs, but at some point I realized taking them 100% seriously was a mistake that led to tremendous joylessness. You can probably excise most of the grimness*, but the goofiness is rather baked in. And if nothing else, stacking the grim and the goofy in close proximity gives things a certain tonal unpredictability I rather enjoy. For instance there's a cave somewhere in Divinity 2, where you cut from a rather miserable story about a dying dragon, to a ridiculously horny treasure chest in the space of about 45 seconds. Keeps things lively.

    *And in a lot of cases I wish developers would. I'm honestly a bit weary of it. Yes it's good in the Witcher, and I like it there, but not everything needs to be the Witcher.

    Also, now I have a vague urge to play Divinity 2 again. More games should let you turn into dragons on the regular.
    Blood-red were his spurs i' the golden noon; wine-red was his velvet coat,
    When they shot him down on the highway,
    Down like a dog on the highway,
    And he lay in his blood on the highway, with the bunch of lace at his throat.


    Alfred Noyes, The Highwayman, 1906.

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