Baldur's Gate III (2)

[Morty]

Keeping the level 10 cap is a good idea and one I hope they don't walk back on. No D&D game has ever done particularly well past that level.

Also, thinking about it, perhaps rogues being superfluous is just how Larian are trying to invoke the atmosphere of the original games. Though for that, they'd need to be generally superfluous but necessary for locks and traps... so really, the current state of affairs is actually an improvement.

[Calemyr]

Keeping the level 10 cap is a good idea and one I hope they don't walk back on. No D&D game has ever done particularly well past that level.

Also, thinking about it, perhaps rogues being superfluous is just how Larian are trying to invoke the atmosphere of the original games. Though for that, they'd need to be generally superfluous but necessary for locks and traps... so really, the current state of affairs is actually an improvement.

It'll probably be 15. The impression I got was that the pacing on levels for the story they wanted to tell was too low. They either had to cut content or add extra levels to keep the flow right.

[Cespenar]

Keeping the level 10 cap is a good idea and one I hope they don't walk back on. No D&D game has ever done particularly well past that level.

Eh, BG2, ToB and IWD2 still exist. But I agree with the principle of your argument, yeah.

[Calemyr]

Out of curiosity, does anyone have any tips? You know, things you're kinda surprised you missed on the first pass?

Here are a few of mine:

* Eating food recovers health, with more "filling" foods healing more. This is a wonderful little thing to know to reduce your reliance on potions, spells, and resting. Keep food handy, and use them when your between fights to top folks off. They're also a bonus action to eat so they're an inexpensive (though heavy) alternative to potions mid-combat.

* You have knockout and help actions in the bar to the left of your portrait. Knockout does pathetic damage, but if it "kills" the target they'll be left unconscious at 1 HP, which can be welcome if you don't feel right butchering some farmers who go hostile because a mindflayer has screwed with their head.

* Help can cure the "Down" status, restoring a person to 1 HP. You do not need to heal an ally to keep them from bleeding out. This can save a lot of healing spells that could be put to better use.

* Concentration spells are really handy. Do not be afraid to keep the Guidance cantrip applied to your primary explorer, for instance, while spells like Speak with Animals can be held for long periods of time to talk to a dog on one side of the map and then stroll back to the other to argue with a squirrel.

* Charisma is a big deal when bartering. Let high charisma characters do your business for you, and don't be afraid to cast guidance on them before doing so to get just the slightest extra edge on prices. Wyll is a great merchant, given his 16 Charisma, though his strength sucks so he'll be encumbered trying to carry the stuff you're hoping to sell.

Spoiler: Minor spoiler

Show

The Shrine of Jergal[ can be found in the heart of the ruins Shadowheart is found trying to enter. There is a good bit of treasure here, but two particular treasures are hidden behind a button you need perception to find (in the left alcove behind the statue). You will need to fight the dead clerics once you push the button, but it will open a door to a hidden compartment. Inside you can find a necklace that allows you to cast Speak with Dead once per long rest, which is a handy ability for finding extra information and alternate solutions to problems. The second is inside the sarcophagus.: a non-hostile undead who will ask a curious question and then wander off. You can later find this undead at your camp, where he'll be able to resurrect dead allies for coin (200g when I spoke to him). This can be useful if you run out of scrolls of Vivify.

Any others I missed?

[Morty]

Eh, BG2, ToB and IWD2 still exist. But I agree with the principle of your argument, yeah.

Yeah, and their mechanics progressively stop functioning as you go up in levels. AD&D 2E really wasn't meant to go where ToB takes it. And it's not like IWD2 mechanics ever work, precisely speaking, but still. BG3 will probably do better because 5E is generally more stable on high levels.

* Charisma is a big deal when bartering. Let high charisma characters do your business for you, and don't be afraid to cast guidance on them before doing so to get just the slightest extra edge on prices. Wyll is a great merchant, given his 16 Charisma, though his strength sucks so he'll be encumbered trying to carry the stuff you're hoping to sell.

I've heard about this one and it sounds really annoying.

[Cespenar]

Yeah, and their mechanics progressively stop functioning as you go up in levels. AD&D 2E really wasn't meant to go where ToB takes it. And it's not like IWD2 mechanics ever work, precisely speaking, but still. BG3 will probably do better because 5E is generally more stable on high levels.

They work pretty well, actually, more so than the systems of most games out there. If you're talking about all the things you can do to "break" the game, those are part of the fun of playing a complex enough single-player RPG.

I can go even further and posit that if you can't make an overpowered build in a single-player (the distinction is key) RPG, your system probably isn't interesting enough. It doesn't work in reverse, though.

[Calemyr]

I've heard about this one and it sounds really annoying.

Nah, the annoying part is how BRUTAL the markup is on items bought from a merchant with an attitude of 0. A magic staff with a sticker price of 100g sells to Wyll for 220g. That's pretty much all of the weapons I'd collected combined to that point in trade for the weakest uncommon weapon I could find. It's not even a +1, it just allows the spell Create Water once per short rest.

I've tried to find ways to lower the price, but Charm is considered a criminal act so that's out. The old Divinity trick of giving a bunch of minor crap away to build up Attitude and lower the markup doesn't work.

In short, the store setup is horribly unbalanced at this point.

[Winthur]

Yeah, and their mechanics progressively stop functioning as you go up in levels. AD&D 2E really wasn't meant to go where ToB takes it.

I might have my perspective painted by being an obsessive veteran with expertise in difficulty increasing mods, but at high levels each class combination feels like it has a powerful niche all of its own and the game actually offers multiple characters to become exceptionally strong. Even with what a Wizard can do, Fighters still remain kings of no-nonsense single-target DPS while the HLAs for Thieves rescue them from being a forced utility pick, although perhaps Spike Traps are utterly broken.

I can understand a few common complaints like how AC ends up giving you increasingly terrible returns to the point you have to either go big on it or completely ignore it by the late game, or how arcanists (or rather arcanist hybrids) are the strongest tanks in the game, but I'm not sure what mechanics "stop functioning" otherwise. HLAs at least fill the void that comes from non-caster characters having a lot of mostly dead levels.

As for IWD2's lategame, I don't know what's so bad about it other than that IWD2 really is a caster-leaning game and the most powerful builds will be some sort of an elaborate caster or caster hybrid, which might be annoying if you're not a fan of caster parties.

[Fred V]

Out of curiosity, does anyone have any tips? You know, things you're kinda surprised you missed on the first pass?

Here are a few of mine:

* Eating food recovers health, with more "filling" foods healing more. This is a wonderful little thing to know to reduce your reliance on potions, spells, and resting. Keep food handy, and use them when your between fights to top folks off. They're also a bonus action to eat so they're an inexpensive (though heavy) alternative to potions mid-combat.

* You have knockout and help actions in the bar to the left of your portrait. Knockout does pathetic damage, but if it "kills" the target they'll be left unconscious at 1 HP, which can be welcome if you don't feel right butchering some farmers who go hostile because a mindflayer has screwed with their head.

* Help can cure the "Down" status, restoring a person to 1 HP. You do not need to heal an ally to keep them from bleeding out. This can save a lot of healing spells that could be put to better use.

* Concentration spells are really handy. Do not be afraid to keep the Guidance cantrip applied to your primary explorer, for instance, while spells like Speak with Animals can be held for long periods of time to talk to a dog on one side of the map and then stroll back to the other to argue with a squirrel.

* Charisma is a big deal when bartering. Let high charisma characters do your business for you, and don't be afraid to cast guidance on them before doing so to get just the slightest extra edge on prices. Wyll is a great merchant, given his 16 Charisma, though his strength sucks so he'll be encumbered trying to carry the stuff you're hoping to sell.

Spoiler: Minor spoiler

Show

The Shrine of Jergal[ can be found in the heart of the ruins Shadowheart is found trying to enter. There is a good bit of treasure here, but two particular treasures are hidden behind a button you need perception to find (in the left alcove behind the statue). You will need to fight the dead clerics once you push the button, but it will open a door to a hidden compartment. Inside you can find a necklace that allows you to cast Speak with Dead once per long rest, which is a handy ability for finding extra information and alternate solutions to problems. The second is inside the sarcophagus.: a non-hostile undead who will ask a curious question and then wander off. You can later find this undead at your camp, where he'll be able to resurrect dead allies for coin (200g when I spoke to him). This can be useful if you run out of scrolls of Vivify.

Any others I missed?

To your point, i just finished my second playthrough of the earlyaccess and i can agree on all you said BUT

The undead guy in your camp is extremely abusable, you can steal scrolls without any punishment and without savescumming even using Astharion guy or whatever his name is each time u camp.
Also stealth is extremely busted, its kinda obvious that eldritch blast is supposed to hit extremely hard, but if u roll a cha dex something something that max stealth and have 15+dex u basically shred through with no punishment. First time i played it i was a thief, but being a stealth warlock is WAY better.
Btw speaking of high CHA i expected that but i found no difference in price between 10cha and 17cha characters, probably the price diff isnt that high. Anyway, u can end up having about 10k g if u buy nothing and salvage everything on your way in early access content.

Spoiler: nothing special i guess

Show

Btw, havent you tried knocking off guys with the masks in the hag's cave? When you wear a hag's mask it mindcontrols you, but had no opportunity to take the mask off somebody else but my party.

[Inarius]

Keeping the level 10 cap is a good idea and one I hope they don't walk back on. No D&D game has ever done particularly well past that level.

Also, thinking about it, perhaps rogues being superfluous is just how Larian are trying to invoke the atmosphere of the original games. Though for that, they'd need to be generally superfluous but necessary for locks and traps... so really, the current state of affairs is actually an improvement.

For me, my personal taste has been to around level 15 or so. I hate the first 5 levels and the last 5-15 (depending on edition) tend to just be me steamrolling things but level 5-15 is the sweetspot in my opinion. From a CRPG perspective, Shadows of Amn was perfect with its level range while the first half of bg1 was annoying and ToB was just a slog of enemies designed to try and make casters less op by giving everything 50% MR (it didnt work)

[Corvus]

Picked the game up - and are getting a lot of crashes. Three by the first fight against the imps. My system specs are at recommended so not sure what is going on. But it is EA so to be expected. Will play around with settings to see if that can get it to work.

Given what is being said I'm going to have Gale and Wynn in the team so that is magic taken care of. I rolled up a gold dwarf life cleric so they can tank and heal. Still pondering who the 4th team member would be.

I must say that female dwarves without beards are remarkably good looking. Not at all what I was expecting.

[Keltest]

Picked the game up - and are getting a lot of crashes. Three by the first fight against the imps. My system specs are at recommended so not sure what is going on. But it is EA so to be expected. Will play around with settings to see if that can get it to work.

Given what is being said I'm going to have Gale and Wynn in the team so that is magic taken care of. I rolled up a gold dwarf life cleric so they can tank and heal. Still pondering who the 4th team member would be.

I must say that female dwarves without beards are remarkably good looking. Not at all what I was expecting.

I had that issue too. Updating my video drivers fixed it for me.

[Clertar]

I had that issue as well, gorgeous female dwarves.

[Dragonus45]

Wait there is a level cap! Gross, I hope I can find a mod to get rid of it.

[Dienekes]

Wait there is a level cap! Gross, I hope I can find a mod to get rid of it.

I mean it may be a little hard to go over the total number of levels the creators programmed into a game. Like, if 6th levels spells don't even exist in the game modding to get to Wizard level 11 won't really do anything.

[huttj509]

Picked the game up - and are getting a lot of crashes. Three by the first fight against the imps. My system specs are at recommended so not sure what is going on. But it is EA so to be expected. Will play around with settings to see if that can get it to work.

The usual suspects generally worked for me.

Video Drivers
Switch to DirectX 11 instead of Vulkan on startup screen.
Try lowest video settings see if it helps crashes, then tweak to find issue and report to Larian (though OMG hair looks REALLY bad an lowest settings, and I'm someone who generally doesn't mind lowest settings at all).

[Dragonus45]

I mean it may be a little hard to go over the total number of levels the creators programmed into a game. Like, if 6th levels spells don't even exist in the game modding to get to Wizard level 11 won't really do anything.

All it would really mean is adding custom spells, already something that will be popular for modding. Custom class features will likely be a solved thing fairly early as well for modding purposes. From there you just take off the level cap and bam you have fixed the game.

[Morty]

Once again, the lure of high levels eludes me. I can see the appeal of levels above 10, maybe, but level 15 seems like it has everything I'd ever want and then some. And before level 15 you can still pretend non-casters have a practical use.

Though it's honestly not even my griping about D&D this time; even games with other mechanics often get really bloated and/or unbalanced as you go up in levels, XP or whatever else.

[Dragonus45]

Once again, the lure of high levels eludes me. I can see the appeal of levels above 10, maybe, but level 15 seems like it has everything I'd ever want and then some. And before level 15 you can still pretend non-casters have a practical use.

I actual tabletop I rarely run them for long, in pathfinder I start accelerating stuff, around 14 or so and for 5e I do it around 15, so as to not sit for to long in the "universe is broken by your awesome phase". But if I have a longer campaign planned I always feel like just stopping before then is kind of rude, people deserve a chance to play their characters through to that peak of power and experience it once they have put the time in to get to that point which can be years in games I run sometimes. In a crpg though? Not having the higher levels is awful. Most of the stuff that really truly breaks the game doesn't properly show up anyways since it doesn't translate and I wouldn't play any game that tries it without mods to fix it. Not to mention, assuming the game has proper mod support, it destroys people trying to do any variety of custom campaign super hard. I can only describe it as a flaw on a fundamental level.

[Babale]

So here's my dilemma. Ready the non spoiler posts here has really, really hyped me for this game! But I'm worried about spoiling things for myself while the game is rough and ruining my enjoyment of the finished product.

On the other hand... if this is the sort of game that I'm definitely gonna play a dozen times, rolling a completely different character and taking totally different quest paths each time -- then maybe that's not so bad.

So.... what's everyone's recommendation? Get it now or wait a year?

[Dienekes]

So here's my dilemma. Ready the non spoiler posts here has really, really hyped me for this game! But I'm worried about spoiling things for myself while the game is rough and ruining my enjoyment of the finished product.

On the other hand... if this is the sort of game that I'm definitely gonna play a dozen times, rolling a completely different character and taking totally different quest paths each time -- then maybe that's not so bad.

So.... what's everyone's recommendation? Get it now or wait a year?

If you can wait, wait. Personally, I don't plan on buying it until it goes on sale and I believe I'll enjoy the story more playing it through. But if you're that impatient, or you have money burning a hole in your pocket the game seems certainly interesting.

[Dragonus45]

So here's my dilemma. Ready the non spoiler posts here has really, really hyped me for this game! But I'm worried about spoiling things for myself while the game is rough and ruining my enjoyment of the finished product.

On the other hand... if this is the sort of game that I'm definitely gonna play a dozen times, rolling a completely different character and taking totally different quest paths each time -- then maybe that's not so bad.

So.... what's everyone's recommendation? Get it now or wait a year?

I would give it a wait, I intended too before someone gifted me a copy and while I have greatly enjoyed the first act it's been a bit marred by various glitches, crashes, and a lack of some of classes that might interest me most.

[Keltest]

If you aren't actively interested in helping to test features and give feedback, I would wait. It's not a finished product, and that will spoil the experience if you dont like the testing aspect.

[Bunny Commando]

So here's my dilemma. Ready the non spoiler posts here has really, really hyped me for this game! But I'm worried about spoiling things for myself while the game is rough and ruining my enjoyment of the finished product.

On the other hand... if this is the sort of game that I'm definitely gonna play a dozen times, rolling a completely different character and taking totally different quest paths each time -- then maybe that's not so bad.

So.... what's everyone's recommendation? Get it now or wait a year?

BG3, right now, is a mess. If you have time and money to spend on an unfinished product and really want to help the developers, get it now.
In a month CP2077 will come out, however - and it will be a finished product with a lot of replay value so if you're into that kind of game it could be a better investment of your money and time at the moment.

[Calemyr]

So here's my dilemma. Ready the non spoiler posts here has really, really hyped me for this game! But I'm worried about spoiling things for myself while the game is rough and ruining my enjoyment of the finished product.

On the other hand... if this is the sort of game that I'm definitely gonna play a dozen times, rolling a completely different character and taking totally different quest paths each time -- then maybe that's not so bad.

So.... what's everyone's recommendation? Get it now or wait a year?

Wait. This game is extremely good, but still painfully incomplete. Missing animations, missing scenes, balance issues, limited class and character customization options, a whole slew of missing quest paths, minimal gear options, and limited to Level 4 and one act playable. If you aren't sure, wait and enjoy this gem when it's polished, the experience will be far better if you do. It is, you might say, the difference between having a fantastic steak and meeting the cow first.

If, however, you are too curious to pass up the chance, and willing to endure a long painful slog through some rough spots and a fair number of crashes, and willing to help the dev team with good, useful messages when the game crashes on you and fill their reddit/etc, and contribute to the work they're doing, the gem might just shine a little brighter when all is said and done. And, for all its current flaws, this sucker has the skeleton to make an unrivaled experience when the flesh is finished. I've really enjoyed the game immensely, but I can live with fact that this is just a rough draft of the first third of the game.

[huttj509]

So here's my dilemma. Ready the non spoiler posts here has really, really hyped me for this game! But I'm worried about spoiling things for myself while the game is rough and ruining my enjoyment of the finished product.

On the other hand... if this is the sort of game that I'm definitely gonna play a dozen times, rolling a completely different character and taking totally different quest paths each time -- then maybe that's not so bad.

So.... what's everyone's recommendation? Get it now or wait a year?

I'll quote the store page:

You should not buy Baldur’s Gate 3 in Early Access if you want a polished experience.

Early Access gives you a chance at an early taste of what the gameplay will be like but we still have a lot of work ahead of us. While we did our best to remove the most annoying bugs and optimize the game as much as we could, there are still plenty of issues and it will take us time to fix them. Only buy the game now if you want an early look or if you want to participate in community feedback. Otherwise, you’re probably best off waiting until version 1.0 releases.”

Even the developers say "Wait. It's fine, we won't mind."

I mean, I literally had a "hey this is awesome! Aaaaand it led to a bug which crashed the game and I had last saved 2 hours ago... Stupid created item being a blank void with quantity zero that the game choked on."

Literally the next day the bug was fixed in a hotfix, but yeah, that hurt.

[Clertar]

I might get it in the next few months. On the one hand, as the developers say playing it in early access robs you of a polished first experience of the game. On the other hand, reading about it here and there for a year has the potential of spoiling the surprise some of the plot and game surprises of the first part of the game when I finally come around to playing it.

[Babale]

I totally understand it isn't polished yet and that my first few runs of the game will be harmed for it. I guess my question for those who have played more (and it may or may not be possible to answer yet, based on how much is out) is whether this will be a game like The Witcher 3 which was very central narrative/character driven, and which I've only seriously played once (because I'm happy with the narrative I saw for Geralt and am finished with his story) compared to something like Skyrim, which I've played a dozen times with a bunch of different characters, sometimes ignoring the main story entirely and still experiencing a rich narrative, or approaching it a totally different way.

I'd have been really upset if my first playthrough of the Witcher (or of, say, Subnautica, which is why I'm sitting out that beta) was rough. Not so much with Skyrim or Fallout.

[Dragonus45]

I totally understand it isn't polished yet and that my first few runs of the game will be harmed for it. I guess my question for those who have played more (and it may or may not be possible to answer yet, based on how much is out) is whether this will be a game like The Witcher 3 which was very central narrative/character driven, and which I've only seriously played once (because I'm happy with the narrative I saw for Geralt and am finished with his story) compared to something like Skyrim, which I've played a dozen times with a bunch of different characters, sometimes ignoring the main story entirely and still experiencing a rich narrative, or approaching it a totally different way.

I'd have been really upset if my first playthrough of the Witcher (or of, say, Subnautica, which is why I'm sitting out that beta) was rough. Not so much with Skyrim or Fallout.

So I would say it is very narrative and character drive, but the final game will have an option to play through from the perspective of an NPC companion as opposed to your OC which I think is going to add in tons of re-playability, and even in this first act there are a lot of options for how to handle problems that I hope don't turn out to be skin deep and have real effects as things go on.

[Calemyr]

I totally understand it isn't polished yet and that my first few runs of the game will be harmed for it. I guess my question for those who have played more (and it may or may not be possible to answer yet, based on how much is out) is whether this will be a game like The Witcher 3 which was very central narrative/character driven, and which I've only seriously played once (because I'm happy with the narrative I saw for Geralt and am finished with his story) compared to something like Skyrim, which I've played a dozen times with a bunch of different characters, sometimes ignoring the main story entirely and still experiencing a rich narrative, or approaching it a totally different way.

I'd have been really upset if my first playthrough of the Witcher (or of, say, Subnautica, which is why I'm sitting out that beta) was rough. Not so much with Skyrim or Fallout.

Okay, with caveats in place:

The story isn't exactly MC focused, but rather party focused. You and the rest of the party are a group suffering through a shared condition with a shared fate lingering in the infuriatingly indeterminant future. When something happens to you, everyone has a similar experience, and everyone gets their rep modification whether they're in the active party or not. (Say something nice about Selune and Shadowheart will disapprove regardless of whether she's there to state her distaste.) The main character is definitely the leader of the party, but the story isn't about *you*, exactly.

Most of the misadventures you can get into are only tangentially about you. For example, the fate of the druid grove is a fairly big element in the existing story, but your stake in it is whether the MIA head druid can save your party or whether the forces arrayed to take it are more likely to actually help you. There's a LOT going on there, a whole Gordian knot of plot threads, agendas, and perspectives, but you're an outsider whose influence can be the thumb on the scales.

Time is a definite issue with consequences. If you see a girl surrounded by goblins and in immediate danger, but don't get close enough to trigger the event and go off on a different adventure instead (such as hanging with a sweet but an eccentric old lady), odds are good you'll return to the corpse of a girl. I don't know the exact details, but trying to metagame like a classic RPG isn't going to go well for you. I saw a couple bad outcomes because I felt I wasn't ready to deal with a situation, only for things to go south while I was working on other problems.

One of the more unique factors in the game are the Tadpoles, which give the party a form of group telepathy as well as psychic abilities they should not have. Using these powers can solve problems quickly and easily, and using them often leads your situation to worsen while giving you even more abilities and unique plot within the party. If you go the safe route like I did and rely purely on your natural skills, you can get by effectively and all but ignore the timebomb behind your eye, but there's a lot of content hidden behind letting your little friend out to play. (For example, your dream mate never comes into play if you stay on the straight and narrow. I needed YouTube to figure out what I was missing.)

Tactical thought is an extremely big factor in the combat system. One smartly placed arrow before the fight even begins can turn a difficult fight into a triviality. A little scouting can reveal alternate routes to turn bloody raids into covert assassinations. It's a game that strongly encourages out of the box thinking and, let's be frank, flat out dirty play to get ahead. I mean, what's the point of fair play when the opponent is actively trying to kill you?

Well, that's my take, anyway. Others may disagree.