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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    Kobold

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    Default Can someone explain to me Crafts?

    I'm working on leveling my character up for the first time, and I'm wondering how the craft system works. The http://www.d20srd.org/ has been my main source of information so far. What I know is:

    Crafting is not a skill, it is a placeholder. When you want to learn some sort of crafting, erase/delete/scribble out crafting and put in "craft: decorative cake frosting" or whatever skill it is you want. There are rules that govern end value base cost time spent on it etc.

    What I don't know is:

    What skills are good for crafting? How broad can crafting be? I mean, why go with "craft: bow-making" when you could have "craft: Woodworking" or even "craft: weaponmaking."

    What can you make in crafting? How do you know what odd items are worth? What would be cost-effective for the party?
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    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Can someone explain to me Crafts?

    The more narrow a craft you take, the easier your DCs.
    A master blacksmith can make weapons as well as a reasonably competent weaponsmith... but not so well as a master weaponsmith.

    As to economics... well, the DMG-suggested treasure for adventuring renders crafting entirely inefficient from a financial standpoint. If your DM plays with different standards of wealth, then alchemy is a fine moneymaker.
    Of course, certain skills are useful "on the road". Trapmaking or cooking are inherently useful to any adventurer. If you want to foment revolution, it could be convenient to know how to craft seige engines. If your city bans weapons, you might want to know how to make bows, polearms, or shivs...

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    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    SamuraiGuy

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    Default Re: Can someone explain to me Crafts?

    Quote Originally Posted by shadow_archmagi View Post
    What can you make in crafting?
    You can theoretically make anything, if you have the resources and the time.

    The important part here is the time. Crafting is SLOW unless you're really trying to optimise around it. Unless you've got a lot of downtime, it's not really worth it.

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    de-trick's Avatar

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    Default Re: Can someone explain to me Crafts?

    Quote Originally Posted by goat View Post
    The important part here is the time. Crafting is SLOW unless you're really trying to optimize around it. Unless you've got a lot of downtime, it's not really worth it.

    one guy in my group made a huge mercurial admintine greatsword for a npc took him a year in character to make, had to get a filler characters in so we could adventure
    Last edited by de-trick; 2007-10-28 at 10:08 AM.
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    Barbarian in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Can someone explain to me Crafts?

    In my experience, only two Crafts are worth taking: Trapmaking and Alchemy. Alchemy lets you make interesting quasi-magical concoctions in your down time, and Trapmaking lets you set lures, tripwires, those classic traps where they start swinging upside-down by their ankles...the list can go on. You could also use them both together. Someone tries to open your spellbook without the special key? Spray alchemist's fire on them!
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  6. - Top - End - #6
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    Planetar

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    Default Re: Can someone explain to me Crafts?

    Craft has very little benefit as a direct moneymaker or combat skill. What it's really for is for fluff - rounding your character out, making them more interesting, and giving you something to do when you've got some free time.

    I like the art ones, personally - Craft (painting), Craft (drawing), Craft (sculpture), and so on. A high-level character can easily have a Craft skill to rival Shakespeare or Leonardo da Vinci, and there are lots of ways to make use of that if you're creative. :)

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    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    Kobold

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    Default Re: Can someone explain to me Crafts?

    Ah. So then perhaps Alchemy and Art would be good choices.. that way I can use my nice fat +4 int modifier to help them out. Aah.. alchemy and art can go together in fun ways too...

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  8. - Top - End - #8
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Can someone explain to me Crafts?

    Quote Originally Posted by shadow_archmagi View Post
    What skills are good for crafting? How broad can crafting be? I mean, why go with "craft: bow-making" when you could have "craft: Woodworking" or even "craft: weaponmaking."
    That depends. A person that builds closets, houses, and carriages may have no idea on how to build a bow or arrows, that are weapons.
    Likewise, the weapon making works for mostly mellee weapons, like a blacksmith specialized in weapons. Normal backsmithing is good to build metal tools, but you need to know how to makes weapons.
    A rule some DMs use is to allow synergy bonuses. If you have 5 ranks in leather working, for example, you get a +2 bonus when using armor making to build leather armors.
    Likewise, you need bowmaking to make bows. If you have ranks in weapon making, you get a synergy bonus in it.

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    Orc in the Playground
     
    NecromancerGuy

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    Default Re: Can someone explain to me Crafts?

    obviously, everyone here is forgetting the valuable Artificer, and the fact that he is completely based around making stuff...namely constructs that do require some amount of craft skills...
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    Default Re: Can someone explain to me Crafts?

    The most specialised Craft skill in the world is Craft: Fletching. It lets you make one type of item. Arrows.

    Woo.

    Even Craft: Bowyering can make two types of bows (or four if you include splatbooks).
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    Titan in the Playground
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    Default Re: Can someone explain to me Crafts?

    The other place where the Craft skills can be useful is in combination with spells like Minor Creation and Fabricate. If you're planning on using those spells a lot, I'd recommend putting a smattering of points into Carpentry and Masonry (wood and stone being the most common raw materials you're going to encounter).

    Some DMs might also rule that you need the appropriate Craft skill (in addition to the feats) to make magic items. Under the rules as written, though, it's probably easier to just hire a blacksmith or whatever to make the base item, which you then enchant.
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  12. - Top - End - #12
    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: Can someone explain to me Crafts?

    I love craft skills! They're completely useless in our campaign because we're almost always moving about, but they're great fun anyways, just for the character. As an example, I have a heavily armed character, and I gave him a bunch of ranks in craft: armor smithing. Now, I just easily fit this into his fluff saying how he only trusts armor he makes himself.

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    Citizen Joe's Avatar

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    Default Re: Can someone explain to me Crafts?

    If fletcher is most specific, what would be the broadest craft? Craft: Martha Stewart?

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    Orc in the Playground
     
    NecromancerGuy

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    Default Re: Can someone explain to me Crafts?

    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen Joe View Post
    If fletcher is most specific, what would be the broadest craft? Craft: Martha Stewart?
    that would probably be a profession skill...or do you have plans of creating martha stewart dummies?
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    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: Can someone explain to me Crafts?

    The real value in crafting skills is for starting characters, preferably dwarven warrior-types. Get your Breastplate at 1/3rd price for taking 10 several times before even starting the game
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    Default Re: Can someone explain to me Crafts?

    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen Joe View Post
    If fletcher is most specific, what would be the broadest craft? Craft: Martha Stewart?
    Craft(Objects)?
    Craft(Stuff)?
    Craft(Nouns)?
    Craft(Everything)?

  17. - Top - End - #17
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    Kobold

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    Default Re: Can someone explain to me Crafts?

    No its

    "Craft: Universe" and it takes 7 days, but one of them you get to sleep.
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  18. - Top - End - #18
    Titan in the Playground
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    Default Re: Can someone explain to me Crafts?

    No its

    "Craft: Universe" and it takes 7 days, but one of them you get to sleep.
    Good luck finding the raw materials, though.
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    Ettin in the Playground
     
    MonkGuy

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    Default Re: Can someone explain to me Crafts?

    Quote Originally Posted by Doresain View Post
    that would probably be a profession skill...or do you have plans of creating martha stewart dummies?
    Who said anything about dummies?
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    Default Re: Can someone explain to me Crafts?

    If you're ever interested in making constructs it seems like Craft (sculpting) is the way to go. Every single construct I've seen requires a sculpting check, and while you could just hire the level 4 expert NPC to make the body of your homunculus since magic users are extremely (and rightly so) paranoid it may be better to do it yourself.
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    Default Re: Can someone explain to me Crafts?

    Actually, flesh golems and colossi don't rquire sculpting. They're the exception.

  22. - Top - End - #22
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    Kobold

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    Default Re: Can someone explain to me Crafts?

    Ah.. interesting.

    Currently, my character is a Lawful Evil Evoker. I'm currently imagining him as your sterotypical sort of oily-greasy noble type. I figured he ought to know some sort of silly aristocratic upperclass craft so it'd all fit...
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  23. - Top - End - #23
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    SamuraiGuy

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    Default Re: Can someone explain to me Crafts?

    Craft(Bad poetry) would probably be appropriate then. He can send it to the women he's woo-ing.

  24. - Top - End - #24
    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: Can someone explain to me Crafts?

    Actually, I just remembered that most of the bards that have been played in my group have at least some ranks in Craft(Songs) or something to that effect. For, you know, writing songs.
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    Orc in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Can someone explain to me Crafts?

    a lot of prestige classes require a craft ranks, or even worse, profession ranks, so thats pretty much all its good for.

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    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    Kobold

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    Default Re: Can someone explain to me Crafts?

    What can I make with Alchemy anyway? My understanding is

    Acid
    Fire
    Liquid Ice
    Instant Water-Just add water
    Glue
    Superglue

    I was wondering if any other unique substances could be made. Also, is poison counted under Alchemy?
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    Default Re: Can someone explain to me Crafts?

    Quote Originally Posted by shadow_archmagi View Post
    I was wondering if any other unique substances could be made. Also, is poison counted under Alchemy?
    Yes, but not to the same degree that it is under Craft(Poison)

  28. - Top - End - #28
    Titan in the Playground
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    Default Re: Can someone explain to me Crafts?

    a lot of prestige classes require a craft ranks, or even worse, profession ranks, so thats pretty much all its good for.
    Correction: So that's one thing it's good for. That doesn't rule out other uses, like the ones we're giving.

    Alchemy also gives you thunderstones, sunrods, tindertwigs, and tanglefoot bags.
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    Default Re: Can someone explain to me Crafts?

    Quote Originally Posted by goat View Post
    Craft(Bad poetry) would probably be appropriate then. He can send it to the women he's woo-ing.
    Hey, if you get truly prodigious with that one, you might even be able to rival Ped-Xing.

  30. - Top - End - #30
    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: Can someone explain to me Crafts?

    Crafting is useful to wizards who like to create things. This sounds obvious, but who would think you'd want craft: oragami?

    Paper Golem! You can make these bad boys at level 5 on the cheap if you can succeed your craft: oragami check.

    Want a simulacrum? Make sure you have craft: sculpting or nobody's going the believe the ruse (that is if you care. This spell is powerful enough. Who cares if your Balor's head is lopsided?)

    Fabricate is probably the spell that is most likely to actually need you to have ranks. Take woodworking, smithing, and earthworks and I think you're covered for most practical situations.

    Someone mentioned flavor and I think that's really what it boils down to. From an optimization standpoint, it's not really worth the ranks. I mean, my fighter's tower shield took a heavy hit from an ogre. I went to a smithy and began to repair it and the cleric spends a 'mending' spell to fix the damage that would have -- by the RAW -- taken me several hours.
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