Help me Name Deities

[Composer99]

I've got a fairly fleshed-out D&D 5e setting which is going live this week (as it were). The characters will be adventuring in an edge-of-the-Wild kind of place.

However, one thing I could do with fleshing out a bit better are the setting's deities. These come in three sorts:
- The Elder Gods, only one of which is known to mortals. These came along and found the world of the setting and tweaked it to suit their purposes. They created the Younger Gods, who are the primary deities of the setting.
- The Younger Gods, who usurped their creators' positions, thanks to extra power they gained from worshipers. (Most of the Elder Gods liked to tinker and experiment, and some of their experiments risked destroying, if not the world, than the souls that the Younger Gods drew power from as well as living mortals.)
- A handful of minor divinities, who might actually be holdovers from the long years before the coming of the Elder Gods.

I'm not terribly satisfied with the names I've assigned to most of them, so I've only included names I am satisfied with. Any suggestions for names, details, or new deities to fill particular gaps would be much appreciated. One thing I'm not sure about is whether I should include race-specific deities (such as elven, orcish, or goblin deities). I'm inclined not to, save for the ones that are already included. Maybe an elvish deity, an orcish deity, and a goblinoid deity?

I have included a brief description of each deity and their place in the world. In the Appearance description, I only include specific preferences of each deity. Generally, when manifesting in a humanoid form, deities appear as the heritage/race and ethnicity of the follower(s) to whom they are appearing. When describing each of the deities individually, I use "god" for those that present or are defined as male, "goddess" for those that present or are defined as "female", and "deity" for those that present or as defined as non-binary, indeterminate, or for whom concepts of gender do not apply.

A Note on Locations: Most deities can be found in the Divine Realms, which are a bit like the Great Wheel of Outer Planes, only smaller (as it were) and containing only the realms of the Younger Gods. In that respect, it's kind of a compromise between the Great Wheel and the World Axis views of divine realms.

---

Elder Gods
Of the Elder Gods, only one is known to mortals:

Spoiler: Elder Gods

Show

Gea, the Earthmother (N) [Named Deity]
Followers are usually druids or rangers, with a smattering of clerics and paladins. Gea is a primal goddess of nature and of living things.
- Summary: A primal nature-goddess.
- Appearance: Gea does not manifest among mortals in a discernable form, preferring to manifest as signs or omens, or as a “presence”.
- Location: Beneath the fabled World Tree, somewhere in the world.
- Holy Symbol: An oak tree.
- Spiritual Weapon: Club.
- Domains: Grave, Life, Nature.

The Other Elder Gods
The other Elder Gods, who are not known to mortals, are as follows. They are imprisoned, and not in contact with mortals (save perhaps through fragments of telepathic speech). [Could do with some name suggestions.]
- A sky-god
- An earth-god
- A water-god
- A death-god
- A blood-goddess
- A mind-god

---

Younger Gods - Good Gods
The Younger Gods are the primary deities of the setting.

Spoiler: Good Younger Gods

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The Golden Sun, Dawnbringer (LG)
A deity of the sun, of light, of life, justice, and of community. Followers are often community leaders and organisers, or healers. More adventurous ones set out to fight undead. Apart from being gender-neutral, reminiscent of core D&D Pelor.
- Summary: A sun deity.
- Appearance: The Dawnbringer tends to appear as a humanoid with radiant golden skin, literally fiery hair, and brilliant silver eyes.
- Location: The Divine Realms.
- Holy Symbol: A yellow or golden sun.
- Spiritual Weapon: Morningstar.
- Domains: Life, Light, Order.

The Life-Giver, The Bounteous (NG)
A goddess of fertility, agriculture, hearth and health. Followers are often rangers or midwives. Can be fiercely protective, even vengeful.
- Summary: A fertility goddess.
- Appearance: The Life-Giver tends appear as a female humanoid, taking a variety of ages, usually of great beauty or former beauty. When appearing as a younger being, she often appears to be with child. One of her favourite animal forms is a wolf.
- Location: The Divine Realms.
- Holy Symbol: A filled cornucopia.
- Spiritual Weapon: Quarterstaff.
- Domains: Life, Nature.

The Muse, The Wayfarer, The Red Rose (CG)
A goddess of music and the arts, of beauty, love, sensation, and of travel. Followers run performance halls, festhalls, hostels, and (in some surreptitious cases), underground fighting clubs or brothels.
- Summary: A goddess of art and travel.
- Appearance: The Muse tends to favour the appearance of a dusky-skinned female humanoid with black hair and eyes, dressed either for performance (as a musician or dancer depending on the situation), or dressed as a traveler or wayfarer.
- Location: The Divine Realms.
- Holy Symbol: A silver harp and a red rose.
- Spiritual Weapon: Scimitar.
- Domains: Arcana, Trickery.

The Watchful Moon, The Huntress, The Dream-Weaver (NG)
A goddess of the moon, of the sea, of dreams, of guardianship, and of the hunt. Does not monitor dreams as such, save to watch for baleful influences from far realms, the Abyss, and the like. (She's a bit of a mash-up of Greek goddess Artemis and My Little Pony's Luna.)
- Summary: A moon goddess.
- Appearance: The Watchful Moon tends to appear as a lithe, athletic woman; whatever the heritage or ethnicity she appears as, she has raven-black hair.
- Location: The Divine Realms.
- Holy Symbol: A crescent moon.
- Spiritual Weapon: Longsword.
- Domains: Tempest, Trickery, [UA Protection, Twilight].

---

Younger Gods - Neutral Gods
The Younger Gods are the primary deities of the setting.

Spoiler: Neutral Younger Gods

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The Lawgiver (LN)
A goddess of laws, order, rulership, judgement. The Lawgiver’s followers are often lawyers, judges, and advisors. More adventurous ones might be bounty hunters or inquisitors.
- Summary: A ruler goddess.
- Appearance: The Lawgiver usually appears as a stern female, blindfolded, bearing a crown, and sporting a sceptre in one hand and scales of judgement in the other.
- Location: The Divine Realms.
- Holy Symbol: A set of scales superimposed over a golden crown.
- Spiritual Weapon: Mace
- Domains: Knowledge, Order, War.

The Worldshaper, The Forge-Father (N)
A god of crafting, artisanry, and especially of smithing. Also a patron of engineering and architecture. Despite the name, was not involved in creating the world as such, but once altered some of its form in the past, and is responsible for maintaining the Planar Veil. Credited with fashioning both giants and dwarves. (This is the only Younger God directly credited with creating existing peoples.)
- Summary: A god of the forge.
- Appearance: The Forge-Father appears as either a male giant or a male dwarf. In either form, he is thickset, with metallic bronze hair and beard, and shining eyes glowing in the same manner of red-hot iron.
- Location: The Divine Realms.
- Holy Symbol: A hammer atop an anvil.
- Spiritual Weapon: Warhammer
- Domains: Forge, Knowledge.

The Wealbringer (LN)
A god of trade, of wealth, of contracts. Followers are often bankers and brokers. Has a streak of avarice that sometimes leads him to have shades of evil alignment, which is sometimes counteracted by a magnaminous generosity, depending on his mood.
- Summary: A trade god.
- Appearance: The Wealbringer tends to appear as a finely-dressed, portly and balding male of middle years.
- Location: The Divine Realms.
- Holy Symbol: A golden, silver, and bronze coin in a row.
- Spiritual Weapon: Mace.
- Domains: Knowledge, Order, Trickery.

Zenon, the Magician (N) [Named Deity]
A deity of magic. Said to be responsible for maintaining the Arcanum, an energy field in the world that allows for magic to exist.
- Summary: A magic deity.
- Appearance: Zenon appears as a slender humanoid. Its only facial features are glowing blue eyes.
- Location: The Divine Realms.
- Holy Symbol: A purple starburst, which is more or less a universal symbol of arcane magic.
- Spiritual Weapon: Staff.
- Domains: Arcana.

Lady Luck, The Lady (CN) [Named Deity (her name is "Lady Luck")]
A goddess of luck, fortune and misfortune, fate and destiny, of trickery, secrets, and mystery. Worshiped by gamblers, spies, criminals, scoundrels. Homage to Pratchett.
- Summary: A fortune goddess.
- Appearance: Almost always appears wearing red, preferably a dress. Whatever the other aspects of her appearance, her eyes always appear to be identical to the night sky: blackness filled with a starfield.
- Location: The Divine Realms.
- Holy Symbol: A pair of cubic dice; each either appears with three sides visible or with one side visible. In the former case, all six sides are shown between the two dice; in the latter case, only the one and six sides are shown.
- Spiritual Weapon: Dagger.
- Domains: Knowledge, Trickery.

The Warrior (N)
The god of battle, wars, tactics, might, strength, valour, and strife.
- Summary: A war god.
- Appearance: The Warrior appears as a tall, mighty male, either dressed in impressive plate armour, or dressed only in a thick kilt. When his face is visible, he sports impressive facial hair. His blood-red eyes shine from his face or through the slits of his helmet.
- Location: The Divine Realms.
- Holy Symbol: A sword crossed over a spear.
- Spiritual Weapon: Any martial weapon (chosen by the caster).
- Domains: War

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Younger Gods - Evil Gods
The Younger Gods are the primary deities of the setting.

Spoiler: Evil Younger Gods

Show

The Dark Lady (LE)
The goddess of tyranny, slavery, fear, strength, and strategy.
- Summary: A tyrant goddess.
- Appearance: The Dark Lady wears black, whether in the form of black plate armour or in the form of black fine clothing. She sports shoulder-length black hair and glowing yellow eyes, no matter her humanoid form.
- Location: The Divine Realms.
- Holy Symbol: A set of shackles beneath a crown.
- Spiritual Weapon: A flail.
- Domains: Forge, Order, War

Mourlothe, The Ravener (NE) [Named Deity]
Mourlothe is a god of disease, decay, doom, curses, rot, insects and pests, pestilence, and famine. He is worshipped by few, but appeased by many – offerings and sacrifices are made in his name to prevent the disasters he can cause from befalling communities.
- Summary: A disease god.
- Appearance: Mourlothe is always a gaunt albino male with a sickly pallor, stringy black hair, and mournful, solid grey eyes. He usually wears a dark brown robe.
- Location: The Divine Realms.
- Holy Symbol: A humanoid skull, with a notch taken out of the skull’s right side and a scarab beetle emerging from its left eye socket.
- Spiritual Weapon: A spear.
- Domains: Grave, Nature, [DMG Death]

The Wrathful Storm, Vengeance-Bringer (CE)
A goddess of storms, violence, wrath, natural disaster, floods, hatred, and destruction. Like Mourlocke, the Vengeance-Bringer is not worshipped so much as she is appeased. Her temper burns bright and her moods are fickle.
- Summary: A storm goddess.
- Appearance: The Wrathful Storm tends to sport wild red hair and eyes that glow blue-white, crackling and sizzling, whatever the rest of her appearance may be. She favours simple clothes and sports two scimitars and a bow.
- Location: The Divine Realms.
- Holy Symbol: A jagged yellow lightning bolt.
- Spiritual Weapon: A scimitar.
- Domains: Tempest, War

Lord of the Dead (NE)
A god of death and of the dead, whose servants are tomb guardians, psychopomps and, so rumour has it, assassins. The Lord of the Dead, together with the Lawgiver, judges the souls of mortals and sends them to their proper afterlives.
- Summary: A death god.
- Appearance: The Lord of the Dead appears shrouded in a great hooded black robe. His head and face can never be seen, but skeletal arms emerge from the sleeves.
- Location: The Divine Realms.
- Holy Symbol: A skull superimposed over a black starburst.
- Spiritual Weapon: A scythe.
- Domains: Grave, [DMG Death]

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Minor Deities
These entities may predate the coming of the Elder Gods. [Some of them miiiiight be familiar.]

Spoiler: Minor Deities

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The Great Mother (NG)
A mysterious, beneficent minor divine being of unknown provenance.
- Summary: A guardian goddess.
- Appearance: The Great Mother does not appear in humanoid form, appearing only in visions, dreams, and omens to those who follow her.
- Location: Unknown
- Holy Symbol: None
- Spiritual Weapon: A staff.
- Domains: Life, Light

Spoiler: Design Note

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This character may not appear in every campaign in this setting. She is a nod to the deity of the same name in the Tortall books by Tamora Pierce, since my wife is playing what amounts to an Alanna port.

Tiamat, the Dagon Queen (CE)
The Dragon Queen is a minor divine being who is said to be the mother of chromatic dragons.
- Summary: A dragon goddess
- Appearance: The Dragon Queen appears as a mighty five-headed dragon. Her five heads are each the colour of a chromatic dragon.
- Location: The Abyss. [All the Lower Planes that aren't divine realms are effectively merged into the Abyss in this setting.]
- Holy Symbol: Five prongs, each of one of which is one of the colours of her heads.
- Spiritual Weapon: A glaive.
- Domains: None; the Dragon Queen does not grant power to clerical worshippers.

Bahamut, the Platinum Dragon (LG)
Bahamut is, according to legend, the progenitor of metallic dragons.
- Summary: A dragon god.
- Appearance: Bahamut usually appears either as a resplendent and mighty platinum dragon, or as an old humanoid male, cloaked and wearing a hat.
- Location: Unknown.
- Holy Symbol: The shape of a dragon tooth, usually platinum.
- Spiritual Weapon: A dragon claw.
- Domains: None; the Platinum Dragon does not grant power to clerical worshippers.

The Lord of Seasons (N)
The Lord of Seasons is a divine being of very fey nature.
- Summary: A seasons god.
- Location: The Lord of Seasons maintains a home in a remote valley of the Spine of Vistrym mountains. The home changes form with the passing of the seasons, just as the Lord's appearance does.
- Appearance: The Lord of Seasons tends to appear as a robust male, whose hair and clothes vary with the seasons. He usually sports antlers reminiscent of red deer, which begin growing in the spring, are full-size by summer, and which shed at the end of the fall.
- Holy Symbol: Varies by season – spring: a green plant shoot growing from the ground; summer: a golden sheaf of wheat; autumn: a red maple leaf; winter: a white or silver snowflake.
- Spiritual Weapon: A battleaxe.
- Domains: Life, Grave, Nature, Tempest

Spoiler: Design Note

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An homage to Brian Patterson's d20Monkey webcomic.

[Wizard_Lizard]

The warrior appears to have the most boring name so maybe change it to
Bloodlust, Slayer of Kings
I like the epithet style of naming that some of the other deities have and reflected that.

[brian 333]

I like the idea of nameless older gods. Mortals need names, not supergenius beings of whom the mortals are unaware.

Koron, the dawn herald, and Aie, the herald of the night are servants of Usarian, the sun god. You can see them as the first star or the last star of the night, who shine in the daylight as the sun rises and sets.

[Composer99]

The warrior appears to have the most boring name so maybe change it to
Bloodlust, Slayer of Kings
I like the epithet style of naming that some of the other deities have and reflected that.

I hear you. What about, "The Foe-Reaper"?

I like the idea of nameless older gods. Mortals need names, not supergenius beings of whom the mortals are unaware.

Koron, the dawn herald, and Aie, the herald of the night are servants of Usarian, the sun god. You can see them as the first star or the last star of the night, who shine in the daylight as the sun rises and sets.

Re: the unnamed Elder Gods, that's a really good point.

And I like the evocative nature of that sentence describing the heralds of the Sun. Done and done!

[Wizard_Lizard]

Foereaper sounds really cool actually!

[RedFred]

When deciding on a name, a good portion of the time, I find an online dictionary for a language I feel is close thematically to the god in question, put in a handful of words, get the translations then roll them around on the tongue until they feel better. Other times, I start with sounds (heavy glottal stops, rolling r's etc.) that fit the character and then do the same thing. The first fictional character I ever named was a dragon, and I wanted something rough and heavy on the tongue, that could be bitten/spat and said in the back of the throat. Combing "grs" and "ns" and what not gave Menglon Grange Intermongot. Which I'm still kinda fond of but likely due to nostalgia.
I would also recommend reading some older works, especially European tales are full in poetic references and metaphors. For instance, in Walfram von Eschenbach's Parzival (thank you Matt Colville), one of the characters is described as becoming a "wood-waster", because he is really good at tourneys/jousting (and shattering lances) which I stole shamelessly.
Finally, what religious devotions do these god's demand? Mayan people where said to have made a pact offering "their armpits and waists" to the gods in exchange for fire (those being where the ritualistic incisions in human sacrifice are made). Building on that, you could expand the idea of a god's name as "The receiver of tongues" for a god of secrets/language (or similar).

In reference to the elder god names you asked for input on:
- A sky-god - Saluss, Wulalus, Taker and Giver of Breath, Lord Long Lungs
- An earth-god - Klak, Grummal, Earth Bones, Wood Wyrded One, Body Rotter
- A water-god - Blu'Ga'lug'uk, River Plougher and Farm Feeder
- A death-god - Old Friend, Clattle, Wolf Feeder, Raven Gladdener, Liar
- A blood-goddess - Saguis, Lady Life,
- A mind-god - Book, Wyrd, The Good Counselor

[brian 333]

"I seek the power and wisdom to rule forever."

"Then you must be forever blind, for even the wisest are swayed by a comely face and form, and even the most honest are prone to mistake style for substance. I can grant the power to hear falsehood in a spoken word, but when you can see the speaker you will form your opinions with what you see and make excuses for what you hear."

Though virtually all knowing, the creator did not forsee what Hallastre did next: she plucked her eyeballs out and she placed them at its feet, and the goddess said,"Teach me."

Some say Hallastrae's eyes are still out there, being used like magic items. None know for certain, though there are mamy legends of what became of them.

Her clerics wear blindfolds and use Blindness spells. Only the most fanatic actually have their eyes removed.

[the_david]

Before I go on a rant on how to build pantheons, is this all the information on the deities? Would you present this information to your players in this form?

[Composer99]

Before I go on a rant on how to build pantheons, is this all the information on the deities? Would you present this information to your players in this form?

Well, they won't know about the elder gods, except for the named one, and they'll likely know names, holy symbols, and portfolios off the top of their heads, along with maybe one or two ways deities might manifest themselves or send omens, with clerics and characters proficient in Religion knowing more overall.

And, sorry if I come across as rude here, but if I were looking for broad advice on pantheon-building, I'd have asked for it. I can't say I'm much concerned whether or not this pantheon meets the standards of a Stranger on the Internet (TM).

[Nifft]

It looks like you have three very similar nature-mother deities, one at each age category.

If (some or all) minor gods are supposed to predate the elder gods, then "elder" seems like the wrong word. Eldritch? Fallen? Titanic?

Are the Young Gods supposed to be a pantheon?

I see an LN god of Trickery and a CN god of Trickery. That's weird. NG also has Trickery, but nobody Evil (they're too honest?)

Only Neutral gods can give Knowledge? Hmm.

There are no Neutral young gods of Nature? Just one Good and one Evil. Odd.

[the_david]

And, sorry if I come across as rude here, but if I were looking for broad advice on pantheon-building, I'd have asked for it. I can't say I'm much concerned whether or not this pantheon meets the standards of a Stranger on the Internet (TM).

No worries, I probably overstepped my boundaries here. Is it okay if I leave this video that has been seen 100,000 times that was made by 2 Strangers on the Internet (TM) that have 180,000 subscribers here? It has some great insight on pantheons in the first 3 minutes that I think applies to your pantheon. (And everyone else's pantheon.)

Edit: For the record, I'm not saying your wrong. WotC presented the pantheons pretty much in the same way in the PHB. When Paizo first presented the Golarion core pantheon they did it this way. I'm just saying pantheons can be more interesting, with less effort.

[Composer99]

Finally, what religious devotions do these god's demand? Mayan people where said to have made a pact offering "their armpits and waists" to the gods in exchange for fire (those being where the ritualistic incisions in human sacrifice are made). Building on that, you could expand the idea of a god's name as "The receiver of tongues" for a god of secrets/language (or similar).

In reference to the elder god names you asked for input on:
- A sky-god - Saluss, Wulalus, Taker and Giver of Breath, Lord Long Lungs
- An earth-god - Klak, Grummal, Earth Bones, Wood Wyrded One, Body Rotter
- A water-god - Blu'Ga'lug'uk, River Plougher and Farm Feeder
- A death-god - Old Friend, Clattle, Wolf Feeder, Raven Gladdener, Liar
- A blood-goddess - Saguis, Lady Life,
- A mind-god - Book, Wyrd, The Good Counselor

Gea wouldn't be very demanding in terms of devotions. The minor deities would also not much concern themselves with such things (except for Tiamat, for whom the show of devotion is mostly about loyalty). The Younger Gods gain at least some portion of their divine power from the belief of mortals (consistent with Discworld, Forgotten Realms, and OOTS deities), which they would demand in various ways. Adding ritualistic elements or sacrifices could be a vessel through which the power of this belief is carried (or is thought to be carried) from the world into the Divine Realms.

For instance:
- The Wealbringer requires offerings of wealth - money or trade goods. Some of this, he allows the temples, while some of it would be taken by the Wealbringer himself, by being placed in holy braziers. The divine power of the Wealbringer would evaporate even metals.
- Mourlothe (the Ravener) desires either the misery and suffering of mortals laid low by pestilence or who suffer ruin at the hands of pests (locusts eating crops, that sort of thing), or, failing that, offerings of crops, fungus, or other things valued by petitioners, to appease him and stay his hand. Particularly cruel worshippers will occasionally try to offer sacrifices of sentient beings, say, by ritualistically killing a captive with hungry rats, though this practice is hard to carry out in most settled lands.
- The Muse is fond of people offering tokens of their journeys at her shrines, and is especially fond of offerings of live performances, or of such things as sketches, small paintings, musical scores, scripts, sculptures or carvings, that sort of thing.

Most people who aren't specific followers of any given deity will offer prayers, offerings, and devotions to any or all of the Younger Gods and to Gea, and many communities that aren't big enough for temples or holy sites will have an "allfaith" shrine, where offerings may be made to the pantheon as a whole or to any individual deity at need. For instance, a farmer who is planting might visit such a shrine and give offerings and devotions to Gea, to the Bounteous, to the Ravener, and to the Wrathful Storm, in a mixture of petitions for good growing conditions and propitiation to avoid destruction by pests or storms. Since the Younger Gods don't permit worship of the "minor deities" at their shrines, that same farmer might, once he is home, burn a small share of last year's crop as an offering to the Lord of Seasons, as well.

Thanks also for the name suggestions (and the snipped procedure you use to develop names)!

---

"I seek the power and wisdom to rule forever."

"Then you must be forever blind, for even the wisest are swayed by a comely face and form, and even the most honest are prone to mistake style for substance. I can grant the power to hear falsehood in a spoken word, but when you can see the speaker you will form your opinions with what you see and make excuses for what you hear."

Though virtually all knowing, the creator did not forsee what Hallastre did next: she plucked her eyeballs out and she placed them at its feet, and the goddess said,"Teach me."

Some say Hallastrae's eyes are still out there, being used like magic items. None know for certain, though there are mamy legends of what became of them.

Her clerics wear blindfolds and use Blindness spells. Only the most fanatic actually have their eyes removed.

Hah! Love that story.

---

It looks like you have three very similar nature-mother deities, one at each age category.

If (some or all) minor gods are supposed to predate the elder gods, then "elder" seems like the wrong word. Eldritch? Fallen? Titanic?

Are the Young Gods supposed to be a pantheon?

I see an LN god of Trickery and a CN god of Trickery. That's weird. NG also has Trickery, but nobody Evil (they're too honest?)

Only Neutral gods can give Knowledge? Hmm.

There are no Neutral young gods of Nature? Just one Good and one Evil. Odd.

That's an interesting coincidence. I do like the "maiden/mother/crone" triad, though, so it might have just leaked out into the pantheon.

The Elder Gods are so named on account of their relationship with the "Younger" Gods. They created or begat them. The details are hazy, since the only Elder God mortals know of is Gea. As far as the vast majority of mortals know, Gea created the world, and is somehow responsible for the existence of the Younger Gods along with other living things. A few learned sages have speculated that the world itself might predate Gea, and that she modified it somehow in a way to make it more suitable for life as it is known, possibly substantially so. Gea herself is silent on the topic, so there isn't a contradicting mythos that is defended by druids or other devoted followers; rather, most folk just assume she is a creator deity in the full capacity of term.

As for the minor deities themselves, it might be said that they count as "deities" because they do not satisfactorily belong to other categories of beings of similar capability or nature, which are:
- archfiends (in this setting, all fiends dwell in The Abyss, though of course there is a great variety of them)
- Royal Fey (the rulers of the Courts that control the Realm of Faerie)
- Primordials (exceptionally powerful elemental beings)
- The Nameless (these would have been responsible for eldritch and aberrant beings such as aboleths, mind flayers, beholders; they have associations with the Far Realms, and are meant to be kind of vague; an inkblot in which DMs and players can project their own ideas; these would be Great Old One patrons for warlocks)

Re: your pantheon question, the Younger Gods were actually originally structured into different, somewhat more organised factions (Gods of Good, of Law, of Chaos), a structure I only recently abandoned. They are meant to be a more or less coherent pantheon, but their older structure may mean they come across in a much more fragmented manner - in their factional form they could be said to have been a set of mini-pantheons.

For clerical domains:
- Since the neutral Younger Gods are broadly associated with "concepts you generally find in large settled societies with extensive social and economic specialisation because of their population base and specialisation", there didn't seem to be much room for a deity with the Nature domain in there; in any event Gea, being neutral, probably fits the bill closely enough?
- The Wealbringer gets Trickery because, sometimes, part of making a deal or agreement involves getting the better of the other party through less than forthright means. However, now I think about it, as you say, it really doesn't fit a LN deity. So I think I will dispense with that domain for that deity.
- An evil deity should probably have Trickery. None of them really seem to have... I don't know... the "personality" for it? The Dark Lady goes in for open tyranny, the Wrathful Storm just flaunts being destructive, Mourlothe the Ravener probably just... doesn't care. It doesn't quite feel right for the Lord of the Dead; on the other hand the whole "assassins" angle might make Trickery fit. Or maybe I could come up with a fifth evil deity.
- Good and evil clerics can worship neutral deities, so it's probably okay if they're the only ones with Knowledge; on the other hand, it's not a bad idea for each of those alignment tranches to cover most domains. The Golden Sun or the Muse (or both) might be suitable Knowledge deities among the good deities, and the Dark Lady would fit for evil.

---

No worries, I probably overstepped my boundaries here. Is it okay if I leave this video that has been seen 100,000 times that was made by 2 Strangers on the Internet (TM) that have 180,000 subscribers here? It has some great insight on pantheons in the first 3 minutes that I think applies to your pantheon. (And everyone else's pantheon.)

Edit: For the record, I'm not saying your wrong. WotC presented the pantheons pretty much in the same way in the PHB. When Paizo first presented the Golarion core pantheon they did it this way. I'm just saying pantheons can be more interesting, with less effort.

I mean, it's good advice to suggest that setting designers should have myths, stories, and lore that ties deities into the setting. I didn't really don't care for the way the video framed that advice, however. In fact, I found the opening section came across as a little bit patronising and insulting. That may just be me, however.

With respect to this particular thread, I admittedly did not pick up that you were looking at things from the angle of folklore & myths. I wonder if perhaps you would have been better served explicitly asking about it?

[Nifft]

Most people who aren't specific followers of any given deity will offer prayers, offerings, and devotions to any or all of the Younger Gods and to Gea, and many communities that aren't big enough for temples or holy sites will have an "allfaith" shrine, where offerings may be made to the pantheon as a whole or to any individual deity at need. For instance, a farmer who is planting might visit such a shrine and give offerings and devotions to Gea, to the Bounteous, to the Ravener, and to the Wrathful Storm, in a mixture of petitions for good growing conditions and propitiation to avoid destruction by pests or storms. Since the Younger Gods don't permit worship of the "minor deities" at their shrines, that same farmer might, once he is home, burn a small share of last year's crop as an offering to the Lord of Seasons, as well.

Cool. That sounds a lot more interesting than picking just one deity.

It'd be neat if each god had certain holy days, and you saw different communities coming together around their common holidays (because their pantheonic subsets intersect at that point).

It'd be super-neat if the PCs had to relate to NPC power blocks by appealing to those commonalities. Like: "Hail good farmers, you know that I am a berserker who walks a different path from the furrows you plow, but I know that we hold common reverence for Gea. Come, let us spill a skull of season's ale on the good earth, and let us speak for a while."

This also means you can assign Domains to sub-pantheons instead of individual gods, which might be more useful, given how few Domains there are in 5e.

That's an interesting coincidence. I do like the "maiden/mother/crone" triad, though, so it might have just leaked out into the pantheon.

It's possible to do that triad with fewer gods -- here's an example, from my own games: https://forums.giantitp.com/showthre...x-God-Pantheon

Three gods, three goddesses, one per alignment (no evil gods)

The Elder Gods are so named on account of their relationship with the "Younger" Gods. They created or begat them. The details are hazy, since the only Elder God mortals know of is Gea. As far as the vast majority of mortals know, Gea created the world, and is somehow responsible for the existence of the Younger Gods along with other living things. A few learned sages have speculated that the world itself might predate Gea, and that she modified it somehow in a way to make it more suitable for life as it is known, possibly substantially so. Gea herself is silent on the topic, so there isn't a contradicting mythos that is defended by druids or other devoted followers; rather, most folk just assume she is a creator deity in the full capacity of term.

In that case, you may want to re-name the Elder Gods. Many people seeing "Elder Gods" will think of Cthulhu and other such "Eldritch" connotations, and that's a separate category of entity in your world.

Ideas:
- Old Gods -- similar meaning, different connotation
- Lost Gods -- actually "the gods who lost" but they're also missing
- Chthonians -- a good old word
- Antexalt -- combo of "ante" and "exalt"
- Ogdos -- nonsense word but apparently Google thinks it's related to Crowley or witchcraft

As for the minor deities themselves, it might be said that they count as "deities" because they do not satisfactorily belong to other categories of beings of similar capability or nature, which are:
- archfiends (in this setting, all fiends dwell in The Abyss, though of course there is a great variety of them)
- Royal Fey (the rulers of the Courts that control the Realm of Faerie)
- Primordials (exceptionally powerful elemental beings)
- The Nameless (these would have been responsible for eldritch and aberrant beings such as aboleths, mind flayers, beholders; they have associations with the Far Realms, and are meant to be kind of vague; an inkblot in which DMs and players can project their own ideas; these would be Great Old One patrons for warlocks)

You could call these non-pantheonic gods Spirits, that word isn't used for much in D&D right now.

Or just "No-Pant Gods", since they're not in a pantheon. They'd like that.

Re: your pantheon question, the Younger Gods were actually originally structured into different, somewhat more organised factions (Gods of Good, of Law, of Chaos), a structure I only recently abandoned. They are meant to be a more or less coherent pantheon, but their older structure may mean they come across in a much more fragmented manner - in their factional form they could be said to have been a set of mini-pantheons.

For clerical domains:
- Since the neutral Younger Gods are broadly associated with "concepts you generally find in large settled societies with extensive social and economic specialisation because of their population base and specialisation", there didn't seem to be much room for a deity with the Nature domain in there; in any event Gea, being neutral, probably fits the bill closely enough?
- The Wealbringer gets Trickery because, sometimes, part of making a deal or agreement involves getting the better of the other party through less than forthright means. However, now I think about it, as you say, it really doesn't fit a LN deity. So I think I will dispense with that domain for that deity.
- An evil deity should probably have Trickery. None of them really seem to have... I don't know... the "personality" for it? The Dark Lady goes in for open tyranny, the Wrathful Storm just flaunts being destructive, Mourlothe the Ravener probably just... doesn't care. It doesn't quite feel right for the Lord of the Dead; on the other hand the whole "assassins" angle might make Trickery fit. Or maybe I could come up with a fifth evil deity.
- Good and evil clerics can worship neutral deities, so it's probably okay if they're the only ones with Knowledge; on the other hand, it's not a bad idea for each of those alignment tranches to cover most domains. The Golden Sun or the Muse (or both) might be suitable Knowledge deities among the good deities, and the Dark Lady would fit for evil.

I don't think universal availability makes for a better campaign.

For example, if Trickery is the Domain of the oppressor who uses misdirection to maintain the status quo, then Chaotic gods should not have Trickery. In that case, Chaotic gods would represent truth and revelation (and damn the consequences). Chaos priests would be the plucky journalists who take down the empire because the people deserve to know.

On the other hand, if Trickery is the Domain of the rebel who uses misdirection to disrupt the status quo, then Lawful gods should not have Trickery. In that case, Chaotic gods would not care so much about truth. They might be entertainers, caring about bringing joy to the people, and not journalists at all.

That's a broad-strokes example of just two possible consequences from a SINGLE domain choice -- you have a lot more choices to make, and even within this choice there are more ways to look at it.


(You might also have different sub-pantheons in different regions, so in a different geographical area Trickery means something else, but that seems like it could get complicated fast.)

[Composer99]

Cool. That sounds a lot more interesting than picking just one deity.

It'd be neat if each god had certain holy days, and you saw different communities coming together around their common holidays (because their pantheonic subsets intersect at that point).

It'd be super-neat if the PCs had to relate to NPC power blocks by appealing to those commonalities. Like: "Hail good farmers, you know that I am a berserker who walks a different path from the furrows you plow, but I know that we hold common reverence for Gea. Come, let us spill a skull of season's ale on the good earth, and let us speak for a while."

This also means you can assign Domains to sub-pantheons instead of individual gods, which might be more useful, given how few Domains there are in 5e.

I like that.

For instance, the Dawnbringer, the Earthmother, and the Lord of the Dead would, in some lands, have joint services/celebrations/commemorations on the winter solstice. In tropical regions, there might not be such an observance at all, while in polar/arctic regions in which the sun doesn't shine at all, the Dawnbringer's role might be smaller.

And, yes, that does seem a good way for PCs to relate to NPCs.

---

In that case, you may want to re-name the Elder Gods. Many people seeing "Elder Gods" will think of Cthulhu and other such "Eldritch" connotations, and that's a separate category of entity in your world.

Ideas:
- Old Gods -- similar meaning, different connotation
- Lost Gods -- actually "the gods who lost" but they're also missing
- Chthonians -- a good old word
- Antexalt -- combo of "ante" and "exalt"
- Ogdos -- nonsense word but apparently Google thinks it's related to Crowley or witchcraft


You could call these non-pantheonic gods Spirits, that word isn't used for much in D&D right now.

Or just "No-Pant Gods", since they're not in a pantheon. They'd like that.

In-setting, folk refer to the Younger Gods and the Earthmother; Gea isn't referred to as an "Elder" God.

I think I'll stick with "Elder Gods": the players don't know they exist (save for Gea), and, in the event that their existence becomes important in a game, it's because they're breaking out of their prisons and looking for revenge against the usurpers. In that case, as campaign antagonists it's probably okay if players associate them with eldritch horrors. (Also, in order to gain the power to break out, they have likely tapped into the essence of the Far Realm, so the association with tentacular monstrosities from beyond space and time is even more apt.)

In fact, the term ends up being more like a sorting term used by us, rather than a term used in-setting.

As far as the "minor"/not-quite deities goes, that's a possibility. That said, they'd probably end up being called gods in-setting, despite not being members of the pantheon, because they tend to have similar relationships with mortals (people offer prayers, offerings, or sacrifices to them, and they can bestow magic upon mortals). Well, okay, the dragon-gods don't do that (although, being dragons, they'll gladly accept offerings), but I do get to call them dragon-gods.

---

I don't think universal availability makes for a better campaign.

For example, if Trickery is the Domain of the oppressor who uses misdirection to maintain the status quo, then Chaotic gods should not have Trickery. In that case, Chaotic gods would represent truth and revelation (and damn the consequences). Chaos priests would be the plucky journalists who take down the empire because the people deserve to know.

On the other hand, if Trickery is the Domain of the rebel who uses misdirection to disrupt the status quo, then Lawful gods should not have Trickery. In that case, Chaotic gods would not care so much about truth. They might be entertainers, caring about bringing joy to the people, and not journalists at all.

That's a broad-strokes example of just two possible consequences from a SINGLE domain choice -- you have a lot more choices to make, and even within this choice there are more ways to look at it.

(You might also have different sub-pantheons in different regions, so in a different geographical area Trickery means something else, but that seems like it could get complicated fast.)

You're not wrong, it's not necessary for every tranch/faction/set of deities to possess every domain in the game; I don't know that I'd agree with the examples used (in that there's no reason you couldn't have lawful deities supporting subterfuge and espionage and at the same time chaotic deities who use misdirection to disrupt the status quo), but I agree with the principle.

Actually, your idea of an oppressive lawful deity with Trickery is great - so great, in fact that the Dark Lady will have that domain. ("The forces that work against the Dark Lady's rightful order and might often work in the shadows, using trickery and guile. The Dark Lady teaches us that oftentimes, order can be most ably defended against such forces through similar methods, by spying on and monitoring potential threats, establishing networks of informants, and swiftly and secretly discrediting or seizing popular enemies before they can organise effective networks of dissent or resistance."

At the same time, I think the Wealbringer will ditch Trickery. I don't think his personality really calls for it. Rather, there is disagreement among his servants as to how much the principle of "buyer/seller/investor/lender/borrower/employer/labourer/etc. beware" applies, and the Wealbringer generally accepts many shades of that principle without necessarily encouraging trickery. An agreement or contract must be abided by, but there's no consensus on how much skullduggery is allowed in the process of fashioning that agreement or contract. (In those regions where the Wealbringer's servants form larger organisations, the attitudes of the highest-ranking or most influential sets the tone for the rest of the organisation.)

[brian 333]

Tallemant, Lord of Seasons

The Four Daughters of Tallemant are Hyspiria In White, Elandre The Wise, Falays, Giver of Gifts, and Sarran The Dancer.

They are not goddesses, but form elements of Tallemant's mythos. They do not grant spells or benefit from the prayers of mortals, but as servants of Tallemant they may be sent to do his bidding.

Hysperia (NE) was the first mortal, and thus the first to die. As an undead she embodies death and decay as a part of nature.

Ellandre (LN) is an elderly woman in whom the beauty of youth lingers as a mockery. Her smile has left deep wrinkles in her face and her strong shoulders slump with weariness. She embodies the reaping of the sown crop in the autumn.

Falays (NG) is a mature woman who always appears pregnant. She embodies the hard work that summer demands in preparation for less bountiful times.

Sarran (CN) is the impetuous youth of strong passion. She embodies the warm breath of spring and the violent thunderstorms that herald the comming heat.

[the_david]

I mean, it's good advice to suggest that setting designers should have myths, stories, and lore that ties deities into the setting. I didn't really don't care for the way the video framed that advice, however. In fact, I found the opening section came across as a little bit patronising and insulting. That may just be me, however.

With respect to this particular thread, I admittedly did not pick up that you were looking at things from the angle of folklore & myths. I wonder if perhaps you would have been better served explicitly asking about it?

No, I really meant that a spreadsheet pantheon wouldn't inspire me to play a cleric. I'm not going to pick a deity based on who has the coolest holy symbol.
The minimum information I'd need to pick a deity for a cleric would be its dogma and common religious practices. The things you would expect a follower of a religion to know. It's what makes the difference between playing a cleric of St Cuthbert and playing a cleric of Pholtus. Because you're just not playing a cleric of St. Cuthbert unless you wack the stupid out of someone.

You're handing out very little info on 19 deities that is of very little use to the players. To me that seems like a waste of time. I'd say it's better to write twice as much on half as many deities.
Even better than that is just not making a pantheon. You only need to flesh out the gods that play a role in the campaign. In other words, the evil ones. Ask your players to come up with their own deities. They should come up with something that interests them, and you can then integrate it into your campaign.

Most of my contempt comes from War of the Burning Sky. (Which did teach me that you can probably get away with only 3 religions.) Compared to that campaign your spreadsheet pantheon is actually pretty decent. At least you seem to know more about your pantheon when people start asking questions.

Edit: Also, I disagree with the idea that a pantheon has to resemble the pantheons on Earth. The olympian pantheon was a fictional pantheon from a real place. The pantheons in D&D are real in a fictional place.

[Composer99]

No, I really meant that a spreadsheet pantheon wouldn't inspire me to play a cleric. I'm not going to pick a deity based on who has the coolest holy symbol.
The minimum information I'd need to pick a deity for a cleric would be its dogma and common religious practices. The things you would expect a follower of a religion to know. It's what makes the difference between playing a cleric of St Cuthbert and playing a cleric of Pholtus. Because you're just not playing a cleric of St. Cuthbert unless you wack the stupid out of someone.

You're handing out very little info on 19 deities that is of very little use to the players. To me that seems like a waste of time. I'd say it's better to write twice as much on half as many deities.
Even better than that is just not making a pantheon. You only need to flesh out the gods that play a role in the campaign. In other words, the evil ones. Ask your players to come up with their own deities. They should come up with something that interests them, and you can then integrate it into your campaign.

Most of my contempt comes from War of the Burning Sky. (Which did teach me that you can probably get away with only 3 religions.) Compared to that campaign your spreadsheet pantheon is actually pretty decent. At least you seem to know more about your pantheon when people start asking questions.

Oh, for crying out loud.

I presented the least amount of information that I thought people would need with respect to the specific things I was asking after:

I'm not terribly satisfied with the names I've assigned to most of them, so I've only included names I am satisfied with. Any suggestions for names, details, or new deities to fill particular gaps would be much appreciated. One thing I'm not sure about is whether I should include race-specific deities (such as elven, orcish, or goblin deities). I'm inclined not to, save for the ones that are already included. Maybe an elvish deity, an orcish deity, and a goblinoid deity?

If in your view, more information is/was needed for you to provide suggestions, you could have, you know, just asked for it, specifically in the context of the topic at hand. ("Hey, I'm not sure this is enough information to go on, could you tell me one or two more things about [deity X] or the pantheon as a whole?") If you wanted to assert the principle of letting players decide, you could simply have, you know, just said so. ("Hey, why not let your players decide some of that stuff you're asking about?")

If you have any suggestions germane to the original enquiry, or would like any information about specific deities or pantheonic history in order to provide such suggestions, feel free to suggest or ask.

Otherwise, I'm entirely uninterested in being lectured at on topics I didn't ask for help for. I really don't care whether or not my pantheon meets your standards for quality.

[the_david]

I did ask what the players know about the gods. This was your response.

Well, they won't know about the elder gods, except for the named one, and they'll likely know names, holy symbols, and portfolios off the top of their heads, along with maybe one or two ways deities might manifest themselves or send omens, with clerics and characters proficient in Religion knowing more overall.

Based on this I said the players should know about the dogma and religious practices of their religions. Whether you like it or not, that's advice on details that you've missed based on the information you've given me.

The other stuff was just my opinion. You can hate me all you want for that.

[brian 333]

A proposal:
Surash
Younger God
Neutral aligmment
Storm-eyed, The Bountiful

S/he appears as a giant cyclops when taking humanoid form. Otherwise s/he appears as a giant sea creature with only one eye.

When one looks into the eye of Surash one does not see an iris and pupil. Instead, one sees a miniature storm with roiling clouds above, tossing waves below, and lightening flashes between. When angered hir eye will blaze with electricity, and bolts of lightening will flash unerringly from hir eye to hir target.

Sailors and fishermen sacrifice to Surash for safety, but are more likely to worship hir through one of hir saints. Intelligent sea creatures are likely to worship hir directly though the avatar they worship will appear to be their own kind in a giant idealized form.

Land dwellers sacrifice bronze objects, coins, and treasure, and beg one of the pantheon of saints to deliver their petition to the deity. Sea dwellers petition hir with food

Cyclopses are hir children, though only they know if s/he is mother or father. (Or both. Or neither.) One who has killed a cyclops would be wise to avoid venturing on the sea.


Some Saints

Myamm
The Good Captain
LG
Female with black hair, blue eyes, and permanently sunburned pale skin. Her face is heavily wrinkled and she is known to smile often, even in the face of danger.

The Good Captain believes in a shipshape crew and a vessel which operates on a schedule. Orderliness is her passion, and a well-trained crew is the key to a well-run ship.

Vidor
The Fisher
NG
Very thin elderly male with white hair cut short and ragged, and never combed. His face and all his exposed skin is heavily wrinkled so that his once brown, (now covered with cataracts,) eyes can hardly be seen as he squints. His skin is the color of old polished wood, though it is difficult to tell if that is just a very dark tan on pale skin or if he is naturally dark skinned.

The Fisher believes that to study fish is the key to catching fish. Tides, moons, and currents are important data in determining the best way to catch fish.

Kandaia Akanya
The Explorer, The Adventurer, The Navigator
CN
Kandaia Akanya has black hair that is almost always being blown in the wind. Indeed, he married the South Wind, and she is usually depicted as a female face in a windblown cloud above his left shoulder as he sails his outrigger canoe back and forth around the oceans of the world. He is youthful and strong, and while he is doing anything his eyes are always on the horizon, as if there is somewhere else he'd like to be.

Those who follow him believe that Surash writes messages to them in the stars.

Querion Ironhand
The Reaver, Rotten Heart
NE
The tall captain is depicted wearing an eyepatch, though it switches sides. Some say he wears it in reverence of Surash, (but the truth is that squinting in the glare of the sea all day gives one a headache and can be harmful to the eyes. A patch allows one to rest the eyes one at a time from the glare and to avoid the headaches from squinting. Also, the covered eye can more rapidly adjust to darkness if one must fight below decks.) Ironhand wears flambuoyant clothes, but his magical metal hand is his most notable feature.
The metal hand is rigid and its fingers cannot flex. However, it can alter shape. It can be a pike, cutlass, or axe, or it can assume the shape of a key.
Those who wish The Reaver's favor, or to avoid his displeasure, pour blood on saltwater.


Weddai
Beachcomber, Castaway
N
This wild-eyed man wears mismatched rags and carries a crude fishing spear. His salt and pepper beard and hair has never seen a comb or scissors, and his pale eyes are some indeterminate color between grey and green. He is unwashed and sunburned, and while his manners are crude he is not unkind.
He appears to have difficulty speaking, as if he's forgotten how, but he makes nonsense noises as he goes about his business.
If a person is kind to him despite his rude behavior he might invite him to his shack just behind the dunes where he will offer tea. The shack is small and made of random flotsam and driftwood, and its floor is sand. It is as dirty and as untidy as its owner, but the tea is good, and served in fine porcelain bowls. Like much of the shack's contents, it appears to be salvage from a shipwreck.

Those who venerate Surash through Saint Weddai typically prefer to live in harmony with the natural sea, and thus they make offerings of crafted or manufactured objects they then vow to live without. One might offer a fork, for example, and eat with his fingers thereafter, (at least until he finds one on a beach or in a shipwreck!)

These are samples of the many saints of Surash.
The given examples are venerated along the coast of one nation. Elsewhere other saints are venerated. Lerak The Slaver, LE, whose followers sign their name in blood in her book, Dozodavka The Merciless, CE, who leads the war galleys of the Blood Sea fleets on their murderous rampages, Eagle Eyed Tullinde, CG, who steers the fleets of reeugees to islands in the vast empty ocean where they can live free of oppression are each venerated elsewhere in the world as intercessors for Surash.