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  1. - Top - End - #331
    Dragon in the Playground Moderator
     
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    Default Re: What new words have you learned recently?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    Okay, you English-speakers have got to be doing this on purpose at this point.
    A handy guide to the differences between British English and American English:


    What the British say What the Americans understand What the British mean
    That's quite good. That's pretty nice. That's disappointing.
    That's not bad. That's acceptable. That's terrible.
    That's not too bad. That's disappointing. That's good.
    That's not too bad at all. That's disappointing. This is the single greatest thing ever.
    I'm going for a stroll to walk off that dinner. I'm going for light exercise. I'm going to the pub.
    I'm going to take the dog for a walk. I am a responsible dog owner. I'm going to the pub.
    I love you. This is a meaningful connection. I'm going to the pub.
    We should do that sometime. We should make plans later. I'm going to the pub.
    You should come over. They want to have me over. You should never, ever come over.
    Flat. Apartment. Apartment.
    Lift. Elevator. Elevator.
    Lorry. Truck. Truck.
    Rubbish. Garbage. Manchester United.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rrmcklin View Post
    "Other people also have it bad" is not a good argument for the status quo. It's just an argument that more people need help.

  2. - Top - End - #332
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    Default Re: What new words have you learned recently?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    Rubbish. Garbage. Manchester United.
    That's not bad. You should come over and watch some football.

  3. - Top - End - #333
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    Default Re: What new words have you learned recently?

    Quote Originally Posted by CheesePirate View Post
    That's not bad. You should come over and watch some football.
    I've seen what you did do football. I don't think I would enjoy watching it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wardog View Post
    Rockphed said it well.
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  4. - Top - End - #334
    Dragon in the Playground Moderator
     
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    Default Re: What new words have you learned recently?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rockphed View Post
    I've seen what you did do football. I don't think I would enjoy watching it.
    Their football? That's quite good.
    Quote Originally Posted by CheesePirate View Post
    That's not bad. You should come over and watch some football.
    We should do that sometime.
    Last edited by Peelee; 2020-12-31 at 12:28 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rrmcklin View Post
    "Other people also have it bad" is not a good argument for the status quo. It's just an argument that more people need help.

  5. - Top - End - #335
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    Default Re: What new words have you learned recently?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rockphed View Post
    I've seen what you did do football. I don't think I would enjoy watching it.
    What have I done to football?

    I don't remember inviting you, but you should come over.
    Last edited by CheesePirate; 2020-12-31 at 01:43 AM.

  6. - Top - End - #336
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: What new words have you learned recently?

    schwa: the "uh" sound that many unstressed vowels make. For example, the i in pencil or the e in taken. Written ə when writing out a word phonetically (\pen-səl\).

  7. - Top - End - #337
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    Default Re: What new words have you learned recently?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    Okay, you English-speakers have got to be doing this on purpose at this point.
    A more worryingly plausible explanation is that they in fact aren't and that's just how muddled they are.


    Consider.

    Football, a game widely considered in it's modern form to be "invented" by the British
    British American
    A game using a round spherical object called a ball. I'm not even sure what that is. A dried and cured dinosaur egg?
    A game using primarily your feet and absolutely not your hands. 1 exception apply. A game using primarily your hands and absolutely not your feet. 2 exceptions applies.

    At this point we should probably be glad icecream doesn't mean a very hot type of chili sause in one of those places.

  8. - Top - End - #338
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    Default Re: What new words have you learned recently?

    I believe theyre both called football because you play with the ball while on foot, ie running. As opposed to, say, Polo.
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  9. - Top - End - #339
    Dwarf in the Playground
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    Default Re: What new words have you learned recently?

    Quote Originally Posted by Keltest View Post
    I believe theyre both called football because you play with the ball while on foot, ie running. As opposed to, say, Polo.
    Yes. Also they both evolved from the same group of informalized medieval football games, which then got codified, focusing on different aspects, largely so different schools could play against each other with the same rules. In the British public school system we got Rugby and association football, whereas gridiron football came out of New England colleges.

  10. - Top - End - #340
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    Default Re: What new words have you learned recently?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ajustusdaniel View Post
    Yes... In the British public school system we got Rugby and association football, whereas gridiron football came out of New England colleges.
    I protest, good sir! The first college football game was the Rutgers Scarlet Knights vs the Princeton "If I can't win, I'm going Homes" in 1869...which was also the last time we were national champions.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ajustusdaniel View Post
    Not a new word, but a clearing up of some confusion- Moot apparently has two different meaning depending on whether it's being used in British or American English, though in both cases it refers to an unsettled point (initially of law).

    In American English, moot point is one that hasn't necessarily been settled, but where the circumstances have changed such that resolving it doesn't meaningfully affect whatever larger issue is under debate, so you might as well move on and stop arguing about it.

    In British English, a moot point is one that's still up for debate.
    Well, now "Entmoot" makes more sense.

    Colophon: a note describing the printing and typography of the book.

    "Usually the colophon appears in the endpapers; sometimes you'll find them squeezed into the copyright page at the front. A basic colophon will identify the fonts used."
    Last edited by Scarlet Knight; 2020-12-31 at 10:09 AM.
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  11. - Top - End - #341
    Dragon in the Playground Moderator
     
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    Default Re: What new words have you learned recently?

    Oh, that reminds me, I forgot one.

    What the British say. What the Americans understand. What the British mean.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rrmcklin View Post
    "Other people also have it bad" is not a good argument for the status quo. It's just an argument that more people need help.

  12. - Top - End - #342
    Dwarf in the Playground
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    Default Re: What new words have you learned recently?

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarlet Knight View Post
    I protest, good sir! The first college football game was the Rutgers Scarlet Knights vs the Princeton "If I can't win, I'm going Homes" in 1869...which was also the last time we were national champions.
    Fine. New England and NewChannelIsland.

  13. - Top - End - #343
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    Yea, but why is polo called polo?
    Quote Originally Posted by J.R.R. Tolkien, 1955
    I thought Tom Bombadil dreadful — but worse still was the announcer's preliminary remarks that Goldberry was his daughter (!), and that Willowman was an ally of Mordor (!!).

  14. - Top - End - #344
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    Default Re: What new words have you learned recently?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vinyadan View Post
    Yea, but why is polo called polo?
    Because of the shirts they wear while playing.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rrmcklin View Post
    "Other people also have it bad" is not a good argument for the status quo. It's just an argument that more people need help.

  15. - Top - End - #345
    Dwarf in the Playground
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    Default Re: What new words have you learned recently?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vinyadan View Post
    Yea, but why is polo called polo?
    I'm told it originated as "Chovgan," in what's now Iran, and was popular enough (folks with the wealth and time to learn how to ride horses love showing off how well they can ride horses) that it spread across Asia. 'Polo," is from the Balti word for 'ball.' Balti is spoken in some parts of India, and it was in India that the British picked up polo.

  16. - Top - End - #346
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vinyadan View Post
    Yea, but why is polo called polo?
    Because the goal sort of resembles a polo mint.
    NB: While I never mean to offend anybody, sometimes the unfortunate combination of Aspergersism and the inherent difficulty of reading a situation through uninflected text over the internet get in the way of that goal. Please feel free to point out any social faux pas, inappropriate joke timing, etc.

  17. - Top - End - #347
    Dwarf in the Playground
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    Default Re: What new words have you learned recently?

    On a related topic, soccer is apparently soccer from "Association Football," shortened to "Assoc," with the er added and the a dropped because that's just what the British did to words at the time, apparently.

  18. - Top - End - #348
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: What new words have you learned recently?

    "Soccer" is obviously a British word. No American would have abbreviated "association" as "socca" and then spelled it with an "-er".
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  19. - Top - End - #349
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xuc Xac View Post
    "Soccer" is obviously a British word. No American would have abbreviated "association" as "socca" and then spelled it with an "-er".
    Almost False: Bostonians would have spelled it "-ar". Then again, going from "association" to "socca" is not an americanism. We would have called it "sosy".
    Quote Originally Posted by Wardog View Post
    Rockphed said it well.
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  20. - Top - End - #350
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    Default Re: What new words have you learned recently?

    Quote Originally Posted by Xuc Xac View Post
    "Soccer" is obviously a British word. No American would have abbreviated "association" as "socca" and then spelled it with an "-er".
    Technically true, but it's specifically the abbreviation public* schoolboys from wealthy families created (from "Association Football"; they tended to add a double consonant and an -er; e.g. rugger for rugby) to sound a bit posher. Not something your average British football fan would use non-mockingly.

    *What a US English speaker would call private, just to confuse things
    Last edited by BisectedBrioche; 2021-01-03 at 03:52 AM.
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  21. - Top - End - #351
    Ettin in the Playground
     
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    A handy guide to the differences between British English and American English:


    What the British say What the Americans understand What the British mean
    Flat. Apartment. Apartment.
    Lift. Elevator. Elevator.
    Lorry. Truck. Truck.
    Rubbish. Garbage. Manchester United.
    (also 'fanny', which seriously Brits ~90%+ of Americans do not realize that's what you think it means because for some reason this gets left out of the 'watch out for...' lists most of the time)
    There are some (like rubbish) where we Americans actually have the word, it is just not the most prevalent. Others (like flat), are a case of 'equally as good' words -- a single unit of multi-unit housing is most likely both single-level and apart from the rest of the building, so either flat or apartment makes sense (another favorite is the boot/trunk of a car -- it's both the thing at the end and a storage compartment). Others where you need specific context, especially if it is place or brand based (mackintoshes, wellies, hoovering). Did the British call rain gear boots galoshes before Arthur Wellesley? Galoshes is such a weird word for Americans to have landed on, that I suspect it's a case of 'we're using the original British term, you just changed how you did things after we splintered away' situation.

  22. - Top - End - #352
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    Quote Originally Posted by Willie the Duck View Post
    [I] Did the British call rain gear boots galoshes before Arthur Wellesley? Galoshes is such a weird word for Americans to have landed on, that I suspect it's a case of 'we're using the original British term, you just changed how you did things after we splintered away' situation.
    Since galoche is French for a type of shoe, I suspect you are on to something here.
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  23. - Top - End - #353
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    Since galoche is French for a type of shoe, I suspect you are on to something here.
    That or the word was introduced by French immigrants. Like how Americans have kindergartens instead of nurseries due to German influence.
    NB: While I never mean to offend anybody, sometimes the unfortunate combination of Aspergersism and the inherent difficulty of reading a situation through uninflected text over the internet get in the way of that goal. Please feel free to point out any social faux pas, inappropriate joke timing, etc.

  24. - Top - End - #354
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    So long as we're doing it, Rugby is Rugby from Rugby School, which played football by a set of rules that evolved into modern Rugby. The notion that it was called this from it's traditionally being played in the carpeted front halls of wealthy aristocratic madmen is entirely fabulous, and just made up by me right now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ajustusdaniel View Post
    I'm told it originated as "Chovgan," in what's now Iran, and was popular enough (folks with the wealth and time to learn how to ride horses love showing off how well they can ride horses) that it spread across Asia. 'Polo," is from the Balti word for 'ball.' Balti is spoken in some parts of India, and it was in India that the British picked up polo.
    Thanks, that's a much more interesting explanation than the one I had made up for myself (from "pole on a horse", like how "golf" was originally the name of the stick).
    Quote Originally Posted by J.R.R. Tolkien, 1955
    I thought Tom Bombadil dreadful — but worse still was the announcer's preliminary remarks that Goldberry was his daughter (!), and that Willowman was an ally of Mordor (!!).

  26. - Top - End - #356
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vinyadan View Post
    Thanks, that's a much more interesting explanation than the one I had made up for myself (from "pole on a horse", like how "golf" was originally the name of the stick).
    Keep in mind, this is fairly surface level research, Wiktionary and Wikipedia- I wouldn't pin anything important on it being accurate without some further fact-checking.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SZbNAhL View Post
    That or the word was introduced by French immigrants. Like how Americans have kindergartens instead of nurseries due to German influence.
    We have nurseries. It's just that our nurseries are the bedrooms/playroom for babies.

    And also buildings for growing saplings or selling plants.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rrmcklin View Post
    "Other people also have it bad" is not a good argument for the status quo. It's just an argument that more people need help.

  28. - Top - End - #358
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    Galoshes is such a weird word for Americans to have landed on, that I suspect it's a case of 'we're using the original British term, you just changed how you did things after we splintered away' situation.
    If that's the case, it could be an example of the wave model; fundamentally, the idea is that the place with most influence generates new words, which then expand like circular waves to the more peripheral areas. So the more peripheral areas end up using older words, while the more influential one uses and propagates new ones. The process can break down once the influential area loses its influence, and sometimes you can see the now immobile circular waves around a certain area.

    The typical examples are with Latin, with central areas like Italian and French using words derived from more recent inventions in Latin, e.g. derivatives of "plus", which means, well, plus, while Spanish, Portuguese and Romanian say plus using words coming from the older "magis". The switch from magis to plus happened in Rome; Italy and Gaul could be reached by the innovation in Roman speech, but it didn't have time to reach more peripheral areas on both sides of the Latin-speaking empire before Rome lost its influence.

    Something similar happened with words meaning "cheese", where both Italian and French use words from the more recent "formaticum" while Spanish and Portuguese (and also English and German, although I'm not sure why) use words derived from the older word "caseus" (also meaning cheese).

    I don't really know when UK English lost its charm over America, but Lovecraft wrote with a British spelling because it was still considered more prestigious (The Colour Out of Space). Maybe the British switched to the new word too late for the Americans to acquire it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    We have nurseries. It's just that our nurseries are the bedrooms/playroom for babies.
    I think there's a Tolkien letter in which he says "we have no nursery" with this meaning. (letter 15).
    Quote Originally Posted by J.R.R. Tolkien, 1955
    I thought Tom Bombadil dreadful — but worse still was the announcer's preliminary remarks that Goldberry was his daughter (!), and that Willowman was an ally of Mordor (!!).

  29. - Top - End - #359
    Ettin in the Playground
     
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vinyadan View Post
    If that's the case, it could be an example of the wave model; fundamentally, the idea is that the place with most influence generates new words, which then expand like circular waves to the more peripheral areas. So the more peripheral areas end up using older words, while the more influential one uses and propagates new ones. The process can break down once the influential area loses its influence, and sometimes you can see the now immobile circular waves around a certain area.

    The typical examples are with Latin, with central areas like Italian and French using words derived from more recent inventions in Latin, e.g. derivatives of "plus", which means, well, plus, while Spanish, Portuguese and Romanian say plus using words coming from the older "magis". The switch from magis to plus happened in Rome; Italy and Gaul could be reached by the innovation in Roman speech, but it didn't have time to reach more peripheral areas on both sides of the Latin-speaking empire before Rome lost its influence.

    Something similar happened with words meaning "cheese", where both Italian and French use words from the more recent "formaticum" while Spanish and Portuguese (and also English and German, although I'm not sure why) use words derived from the older word "caseus" (also meaning cheese).

    I don't really know when UK English lost its charm over America, but Lovecraft wrote with a British spelling because it was still considered more prestigious (The Colour Out of Space). Maybe the British switched to the new word too late for the Americans to acquire it.
    The Revolution seems like a good time (with some exceptions for Anglophiles, which is how I would explain Lovecraft). This would make sense if Wellington Boots became a culturally distinct thing after Wellesley's Napoleonic War service. We have other examples (not limiting myself to words) -- Brits used to use a knife and fork in the manner than Americans do, and then changed habits after we had already left their sphere of influence (leading to almost as many pointless internet arguments as whether Association or Gridiron have a better claim to the name 'football' ).

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    We have nurseries. It's just that our nurseries are the bedrooms/playroom for babies.
    And also buildings for growing saplings or selling plants.
    We also have 'nursery school's -- they are where you go when you are too young for kindergartens.
    Last edited by Willie the Duck; 2021-01-05 at 12:48 PM.

  30. - Top - End - #360

    Default Re: What new words have you learned recently?

    If I had to guess, galoshes is artificial rather than natural adaptation. Someone decided to use the French word in advertising them because of the mental connection between France and fashion.

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