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  1. - Top - End - #91
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    Default Re: What new words have you learned recently?

    Quote Originally Posted by Florian View Post
    No, you don't.

    It´s better to acknowledge that there are a few countries able to form their "inland empire", most often based on population density.

    Iran, Turkey, Germany, Japan and HK fit that bill, former empires like Austria or the UK don't.
    How many Germans does it take to screw in a light bulb?

    One. They are very efficient and do not enjoy jokes.
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  2. - Top - End - #92
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    Default Re: What new words have you learned recently?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    How many Germans does it take to screw in a light bulb?

    One. They are very efficient and do not enjoy jokes.
    You are evading a serious answer, Genosse Lee.

  3. - Top - End - #93
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    Default Re: What new words have you learned recently?

    Quote Originally Posted by Florian View Post
    You are evading a serious answer, Genosse Lee.
    Genau! Though I have to note, I evaded a serious answer with that joke about the Austrians to begin with, so it's a bit late to be throwing that accusation around.
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  4. - Top - End - #94
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    Default Re: What new words have you learned recently?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    Genau! Though I have to note, I evaded a serious answer with that joke about the Austrians to begin with, so it's a bit late to be throwing that accusation around.
    Care to have a serious discussion?

  5. - Top - End - #95
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    Default Re: What new words have you learned recently?

    Quote Originally Posted by Florian View Post
    Care to have a serious discussion?
    About German/inland imperial world pain/world weariness? Nah. I'd just end up cracking more jokes about deferring to my Austrian brethren.
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  6. - Top - End - #96
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    Default Re: What new words have you learned recently?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    About German/inland imperial world pain/world weariness? Nah. I'd just end up cracking more jokes about deferring to my Austrian brethren.
    You don't have those.

    I don´t know what is wrong with you over in the States. What you call your roots and and our local reality seldom meet on a workable level.

  7. - Top - End - #97
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    Default Re: What new words have you learned recently?

    Quote Originally Posted by Florian View Post
    You don't have those.

    I don´t know what is wrong with you over in the States. What you call your roots and and our local reality seldom meet on a workable level.
    Our national identity is short a zero in age compared to you folks on the other side of the pond, so we have a tendency to look back at anything beyond that time and wonder why we dont have as legitimate a claim to that heritage as you guys do just because we happen to not live there anymore. If a German moves to England, does he suddenly become English and stop being German? What about his children, who are being raised by a German family? Wheres the cutoff?
    “Evil is evil. Lesser, greater, middling, it's all the same. Proportions are negotiated, boundaries blurred. I'm not a pious hermit, I haven't done only good in my life. But if I'm to choose between one evil and another, then I prefer not to choose at all.”

  8. - Top - End - #98
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    Default Re: What new words have you learned recently?

    Quote Originally Posted by Florian View Post
    You don't have those.

    I don´t know what is wrong with you over in the States. What you call your roots and and our local reality seldom meet on a workable level.
    I'm half Austrian and do not care for petty gatekeeping about my roots, especially from people who have little to no idea what my roots actually are (such as how close I am to my Austrian family).

    But hey, maybe it's different in Germany. Maybe as soon as someone moves away and has a kid, you completely shun them. Don't know, since I have virtually no interest in Germany. All I can say is I'm happy that my family is Austrian. Good people, I like them a lot, and it seems to be mutual.
    Last edited by Peelee; 2020-08-29 at 04:25 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by truemane
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  9. - Top - End - #99
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    Default Re: What new words have you learned recently?

    Especially considering that those of us in the United States keeps a lot of what was brought with us close. I grew up between a Russian family, second generation, and they spoke Russian and English and cooked mostly Russian dishes with substitutes when and where they were needed and if you told them they weren't Russian they'd probably kick you out of their house and never speak to you again. That's indicative of a lot of families. Most American families are only fifth or sixth generation and with the increase in how long people live, lots of them have family members that are old enough to remember coming to the country or living with someone who was an immigrant where the culture is retained in a higher density that what you might see on television or in the media. The cultural landscape of the United States is complex and way beyond something we can discuss on this particular forum.

    Also keep in mind that as far as ancestry goes, 50 million Americans claim some ancestry back to Germanic roots. That's maybe a drop in the bucket for a country with 382 million people but it's the single largest ethnic group in the country. In the entire country. Sixteen of the fifteen states has German as the second most spoken language of their states. Which is down quite a lot and it wasn't until two very messy bumps in history we're not allowed to discuss here that many Americans had it as a second languge. Especially in the Heartland. You can still find German Villages all across Pennsylvania and Ohio even though anything related to that went westward 100 years ago. Likewise above, if you'd told those Americans they weren't German because they didn't live in the German Empire I think you'd have rather a cold reception.

    Both my mother and my father are second Generation Americans and while I really don't care about being German or Welsh or English, I also don't really care about being an American either as it pertains to the larger country as a whole. The culture I grew up in had nothing whatsoever to do with the East Coast and its culture or the West Coast and its culture. Nor the South and its culture. American culture isn't a monolith from start to finish, just regional cultures connected by a shared history and some basic cultural mores that transcend the evolution regional cultures have undergone and a lot of that has to do with who immigrated there and when.

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    I'm half Austrian and do not care for petty gatekeeping about my roots, especially from people who have little to no idea what my roots actually are (such as how close I am to my Austrian family).

    But hey maybe it's different in Germany. Maybe as soon as someone moves away and has a kid, you completely shun them. Don't know, since I have virtually interest in Germany. All I can say is I'm happy that my family is Austrian. Good people, I like them a lot, and it seems to be mutual.
    Case meets point.
    Last edited by Razade; 2020-08-29 at 06:58 PM.

  10. - Top - End - #100
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    Default Re: What new words have you learned recently?

    Then there’s me vibing in nz with no clue of my heritage except.. United Kingdom... maybe?
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  11. - Top - End - #101
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    Default Re: What new words have you learned recently?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wizard_Lizard View Post
    Then there’s me vibing in nz with no clue of my heritage except.. United Kingdom... maybe?
    That's something that often surprises me about Americans, they frequently seem to know or have researched or have been taught their family history from the foundation of Jamestown.

    Quote Originally Posted by Florian View Post
    No, you don't.
    Quote Originally Posted by Florian View Post

    It´s better to acknowledge that there are a few countries able to form their "inland empire", most often based on population density.

    Iran, Turkey, Germany, Japan and HK fit that bill, former empires like Austria or the UK don't.


    OK, I lost the rationale for this jump from Weltschmerz to contemporary inland empires (a qualification whose meaning I also miss for multiple reasons). Especially since Weltschmerz was coined between 1823 and 1825 by a Franconian (Jean Paul) living in the Kingdom of Bavaria, at a time in which Austria, Prussia and Bavaria all belonged to the same German Confederation. It's also that the term first described an Englishman, Byron.

    For what I understand, Weltschmerz describes the suffering due to the constant, unavoidable contradiction between man's subjectivity and freedom vs nature and reality.
    Last edited by Vinyadan; 2020-08-29 at 08:26 PM.
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  12. - Top - End - #102
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    Default Re: What new words have you learned recently?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vinyadan View Post
    That's something that often surprises me about Americans, they frequently seem to know or have researched or have been taught their family history from the foundation of Jamestown.
    Being able to trace our family history to the founding of our country/cultural group is one of the few time based things we can feasibly do that Europeans generally cannot.
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  13. - Top - End - #103
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    Default Re: What new words have you learned recently?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vinyadan View Post
    That's something that often surprises me about Americans, they frequently seem to know or have researched or have been taught their family history from the foundation of Jamestown.
    I don't know about to the founding of Jamestown but it goes back to the fact that most Americans haven't been here that long. The country has had a number of immigrant waves, each one successively larger than the last and the majority of those are during 1918 to 1950 and after. In the grand scheme of things that's not really that long of a time to track. Given that the lifespan of people have been increasing, there are people still born in 1918 alive today. The number is dwindling but consider that they have had children who were born in the 1930s who then had children born in the 1950s and that suddenly includes my father. So his family, who can trace their heritage back to Germany, spoke German and were German living in another country pressed that on to him. The line from when our family wasn't American and when it suddenly was American isn't that long. I live close to one of his cousins who is 20ish years older than him, and she still speaks German more than English and can tell me all about how her mother smuggled her over to America illegally and then claimed she was born in the U.S so that she could be a citizen without any paperwork outside figging her date of birth.

    It doesn't take a lot of research for a lot of us, is my point. We know where we come from because it wasn't that long ago that we were the very people Florian wants to tell us we have no connection to or right to claim familial bonds to.
    Last edited by Razade; 2020-08-29 at 08:19 PM.

  14. - Top - End - #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vinyadan View Post
    For what I understand, Weltschmerz describes the suffering due to the constant, unavoidable contradiction between man's subjectivity and freedom vs nature and reality.
    Not correct.

    For Weltschmerz to happen, you must first have given thought about the ideal state of something, then found that something to be imperfect/flawed/broken, therefore everything you do in regard to that something is also imperfect/flawed/broken.

    For example, there's the philosophical concept of the "end of history". At one point, everything has been said and done, every conflict has been resolved, an ideal state has been reached and nothing new will develop from that point on, as nothing new will be needed. History, in the sense of a constant series of conflicts, is over at that point. (Hegel, Marx)

    Now consider Popper and Kant. "Zero tolerance towards the intolerant" and the inherent self-constraint imposed by the Categorical Imperative point towards a paradox: An open, liberal society must be quite illiberal to sustain itself. When you go by the notion that "Your freedom ends at the point that you infringe upon the freedom of another", or "Act upon others as you want others to act upon you", you acknowledge the paradox that true freedom does not exist, or rather, that boundaries actually shape freedom.

    There's a bleak example for this. The German Constitution holds an "Eternity Clause". The only thing that is exempt from democratic vote is democracy itself. The Bundeswehr (german army) and secret service have the standing task of toppling any nondemocratic government in Germany by force, no matter if that government was empowered by democratic vote.

    So, taken together, at one point, democracy will "resolve itself". For a democratic, this is a major source of Weltschmerz.

  15. - Top - End - #105
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    Default Re: What new words have you learned recently?

    Quote Originally Posted by Keltest View Post
    Our national identity is short a zero in age compared to you folks on the other side of the pond, so we have a tendency to look back at anything beyond that time and wonder why we dont have as legitimate a claim to that heritage as you guys do just because we happen to not live there anymore. If a German moves to England, does he suddenly become English and stop being German? What about his children, who are being raised by a German family? Wheres the cutoff?
    *Shrugs*

    Europe is less about nation and more about culture.

    I think this is the main point that you guys over in "the colonies" don't understand, despite Canada, the States, Australia and New Seeland being way more stable than anything that we experienced in continental Europe.

    For example, consider Belgium and Germany. Basically, there is no "Belgium Culture". The country is evenly split between "French Culture" and "Netherlands Culture". Germany is the opposite. "German Culture" extends way beyond the borders of the actual nation, way down to the Alto Aldige region of Italy.

    Maybe you are the one asking the question wrong?

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    Default Re: What new words have you learned recently?

    Quote Originally Posted by Keltest View Post
    Our national identity is short a zero in age compared to you folks on the other side of the pond, so we have a tendency to look back at anything beyond that time and wonder why we dont have as legitimate a claim to that heritage as you guys do just because we happen to not live there anymore. If a German moves to England, does he suddenly become English and stop being German? What about his children, who are being raised by a German family? Wheres the cutoff?
    My grandfather was born in France of Italian immigrants. He died back when I was starting to figure out how sentences work, so I never got to ask him the question but I know that neither my father my aunt, my siblings, my cousin or myself consider ourselves Italians.

    I think this is a question of integration. In European countries, immigrant are encouraged to integrate themselves into the local culture/identity meaning that second generation immigrants generally think of themselves as being part this and part that and third generation think of themselves as members of their nation of birth with an heritage, heritage that becomes less and less important as generations go.

    Of course this process is slower if a first generation immigrant has children with another immigrant of the same country than if they do the same with a native.

    The United States, if my understanding is correct, see itself as a melting pot, where immigrants all bring their own cultures/identities and can retain them while being Americans. I would guess that this is due to the nation’s history: being founded by immigrants. As there weren’t an already established majority to absorb them, each community passed down its own identity/culture to its children.

    Edit: keep in mind that I am absolutely not an expert in any of this and this is just my own musings. I wouldn’t be surprised if I as completely off the mark.
    Last edited by Fyraltari; 2020-08-30 at 08:40 AM.

  17. - Top - End - #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by Florian View Post
    *Shrugs*

    Europe is less about nation and more about culture.

    I think this is the main point that you guys over in "the colonies" don't understand, despite Canada, the States, Australia and New Seeland being way more stable than anything that we experienced in continental Europe.

    For example, consider Belgium and Germany. Basically, there is no "Belgium Culture". The country is evenly split between "French Culture" and "Netherlands Culture". Germany is the opposite. "German Culture" extends way beyond the borders of the actual nation, way down to the Alto Aldige region of Italy.

    Maybe you are the one asking the question wrong?
    Knowing some Belgians, I think they'd disagree with your assessment that there is no "Belgian Culture" outside the French and Netherlands identity.

    We're not the one asking any question. You told Peelee that they didn't have Austrian brethren and we've pushed back on your concept that just because we're Americans we don't have cultural ties back to where we came from. I think most of us here understand that Euope and its culture is way more complicated than sociopolitical boarders.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    As there weren’t an already established majority to absorb them, each community passed down its own identity/culture to its children.
    The First Nations would like to have a word with you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Razade View Post
    The First Nations would like to have a word with you.
    I thought about mentionning them but I wasn't sure about how I could explain the reasons the American settlers did not integrate into the native american societies they encountered. I decided not to try because I assumed everyone would know. Apparently I needed to, so here goes: Invaders and immigrants aren't the same thing.
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  19. - Top - End - #109
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    Default Re: What new words have you learned recently?

    I learned one watching an elder scrolls lore video:

    sinistral: a fancy word for being left-handed.
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    Default Re: What new words have you learned recently?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    I thought about mentionning them but I wasn't sure about how I could explain the reasons the American settlers did not integrate into the native american societies they encountered. I decided not to try because I assumed everyone would know. Apparently I needed to, so here goes: Invaders and immigrants aren't the same thing.
    There were some immigrants who integrated into various native cultures. One of the biggest sources of same was that Cherokee (I think) would buy africans as slaves, but the children of slaves were both free and members of the group that had enslaved their parents. I mostly know about this because I knew a guy who was descended from same, so I am sorry I can't give more details.

    The other reason that there wasn't much integration into native culture is that, thanks to diseases brought by Europeans, the native cultures were often either fragmented or destroyed before the Europeans tried to settle in the area.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rockphed View Post
    The other reason that there wasn't much integration into native culture is that, thanks to diseases brought by Europeans, the native cultures were often either fragmented or destroyed before the Europeans tried to settle in the area.
    And that if I understand it right, comes back to Fyraltari's point. There was no established majority to absorb them. Due to deceases, conflicts and so on, most american native cultures were pushed off and declined. Trying to just make a neutral argument the demographic equation did not favour the natives.

    In places like India and China invaders would come in, conquer and then eventually get absorbed by the local populace. Sometimes forming cultural hybrids or new cultures (i.e. to say even the majority changes somewhat in the contact) Even in South America the native to newcomer ratio seems to me slighlty more even keeled.

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    Default Re: What new words have you learned recently?

    Here is a new one to me: Concision - using only the words necessary to convey an idea.

    "His admirable effort at concision gets the better of him as many important players barely make a cameo."
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    Default Re: What new words have you learned recently?

    It's not a word, but I recently learnt the term "I've got milk on the stove", meaning "sorry, I've got something that absolutely needs my undivided attention, so I can't hear you out this second!". From the way milk suddenly boils over if you don't keep an eye on it.

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    Yesterday I finally learnt that an ornithopter is a flaying machine that uses flapping wings, I have known the term for decades, but did not know how they differed from other flying machines.
    Last edited by Khedrac; 2020-09-01 at 03:00 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Khedrac View Post
    Yesterday I finally learnt that an ornithopter is a flaying machine that uses flapping wings, I have known the term for decades, but did not know how they differed from other flying machines.
    And it automatically plays "ride of the valkyries" as you fly it.

    I figured it out from a combination of Dune 2000 and playing Magic: the Gathering.
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    Rockphed said it well.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Khedrac View Post
    Yesterday I finally learnt that an ornithopter is a flaying machine that uses flapping wings, I have known the term for decades, but did not know how they differed from other flying machines.
    I presume you meant flying machine, a flaying machine would be a lot different.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wizard_Lizard View Post
    I presume you meant flying machine, a flaying machine would be a lot different.
    Unless you dive low over a crowd, in which case the difference is rather academic.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wizard_Lizard View Post
    I presume you meant flying machine, a flaying machine would be a lot different.
    Oopsie - that's a rather Freudian typo. On the other hand, there's an idea for a new horror-genre monster, presumably the wings would have to be covered in something rather like sharkskin.

    OK - freebie word for people who may not already know it - gibbous.

    With reference to the moon it is simply between half-full and full (or full and half-full depending on direction). HP Lovecraft liked using words with very prosaic meanings that were unfamiliar to hint at something much darker.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Khedrac View Post
    Oopsie - that's a rather Freudian typo. On the other hand, there's an idea for a new horror-genre monster, presumably the wings would have to be covered in something rather like sharkskin.

    OK - freebie word for people who may not already know it - gibbous.

    With reference to the moon it is simply between half-full and full (or full and half-full depending on direction). HP Lovecraft liked using words with very prosaic meanings that were unfamiliar to hint at something much darker.
    I like gibbous moons.
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  30. - Top - End - #120
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    Scarlet Knight's Avatar

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    Default Re: What new words have you learned recently?

    abseil : descend a rock face or other near-vertical surface by using a doubled rope coiled round the body and fixed at a higher point; rappel.

    "The commandos had to abseil down sheer cliffs to reach the hostage."
    “A long surcote of pers upon he hade, / And by his syde he baar a rusty blade.” - Chaucer

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