What's your favorite headcanon? 3: The mods must be crazy

[Fyraltari]

Water is surprisingly heavy, after all.

Dunno, I've always thought "1 litre = 1 kilogram" very easy to remember.

[EggKookoo]

From what I understand, canonically Anakin was created by the Living Force as a kind of immune response to the extensive meddling of (mainly) Plagueis and (to a lesser extent) Sidious. He was literally the Force birthing itself in flesh form, using Shmi as a conduit. My headcanon is that he's not really a normal human. The Force created him to serve a specific, finite purpose, after which he was supposed to pass on in one way or another. But by having kids, he messed something up. The offspring of a Vergence isn't really natural. A mortal mother can't carry them to term. And remember that Qui Gon told us that life can't exist without midichlorians, meaning even mundanes have some in their system.

1. Padme died after giving birth because the twins consumed all of her midichlorians. That's why the medical droid couldn't explain it.
2. Palpatine knew this would happen but deliberately kept it hidden from Anakin, which is why he told him that he (Anakin) did it.
3. Vader gradually worked this out in the years leading up to Return of the Jedi, but never really knew for sure. Killing Palpatine at the end was as much for Padme as it was for Luke.

[Peelee]

Dunno, I've always thought "1 litre = 1 kilogram" very easy to remember.

What's a "leader-a-cola"?

[Morgaln]

What's a "leader-a-cola"?

It is an arcane incantation, handed down through the ages in Europe, using a dark and mystical codex called the "metric system." You certainly wouldn't want to have anything to do with that kind of devilry.

[Rater202]

From what I understand, canonically Anakin was created by the Living Force as a kind of immune response to the extensive meddling of (mainly) Plagueis and (to a lesser extent) Sidious. He was literally the Force birthing itself in flesh form, using Shmi as a conduit. My headcanon is that he's not really a normal human. The Force created him to serve a specific, finite purpose, after which he was supposed to pass on in one way or another. But by having kids, he messed something up. The offspring of a Vergence isn't really natural. A mortal mother can't carry them to term. And remember that Qui Gon told us that life can't exist without midichlorians, meaning even mundanes have some in their system.

1. Padme died after giving birth because the twins consumed all of her midichlorians. That's why the medical droid couldn't explain it.
2. Palpatine knew this would happen but deliberately kept it hidden from Anakin, which is why he told him that he (Anakin) did it.
3. Vader gradually worked this out in the years leading up to Return of the Jedi, but never really knew for sure. Killing Palpatine at the end was as much for Padme as it was for Luke.

The problem is that midichlorians are subcellular symbiotes. Like mitochondria or chloroplasts.

So the twins couldn't "consume" Padme's midichlorians like that.

...Honestly, considering that sperm cells only have DNA, no major organelles and that in real life your mitochondrial DNA comes exclusively from your mother becuase you're just inheriting some of her mitochondria, that would suggest that either Padme was a force prodigy on the same level as Anakin bu never achieved that potential... Or

It's been said, I can't remember where that Midichlorians can reproduce themselves within your cells and that regular use of the force will result in a steady increase of your midichlorian count over time*. It's possible that the traits that Anakin passed on to his children that let them by such powerful force users were that he's just... A very, very good host of Midichlorians allowing them to reproduce themselves far more easily within his system.

*Which would explain why Anakin having a higher midichlorian count than Yoda is such a big deal. Yoda's the oldest living force user on record at this point in time.

[Peelee]

It is an arcane incantation, handed down through the ages in Europe, using a dark and mystical codex called the "metric system." You certainly wouldn't want to have anything to do with that kind of devilry.

Excuse me, we most certainly do use metric. Bottled cokes come in various sizes, but the two most common by far are the 20 oz and the 2 liter.

Dont ask me why.

[Fyraltari]

What's a "leader-a-cola"?

I don't get it.

[Peelee]

I don't get it.

And all this time I thought the French embraced culture.

[Fyraltari]

And all this time I thought the French embraced culture.

This clarifies nothing.

[Peelee]

This clarifies nothing.

Well I can't link the scene due to forum rules, so that's the best you're going to get. You could always go to YouTube and look up "Super troopers liter of cola".

[Grim Portent]

Spoiler: Quote spoilered for length

Show

From what I understand, canonically Anakin was created by the Living Force as a kind of immune response to the extensive meddling of (mainly) Plagueis and (to a lesser extent) Sidious. He was literally the Force birthing itself in flesh form, using Shmi as a conduit. My headcanon is that he's not really a normal human. The Force created him to serve a specific, finite purpose, after which he was supposed to pass on in one way or another. But by having kids, he messed something up. The offspring of a Vergence isn't really natural. A mortal mother can't carry them to term. And remember that Qui Gon told us that life can't exist without midichlorians, meaning even mundanes have some in their system.

1. Padme died after giving birth because the twins consumed all of her midichlorians. That's why the medical droid couldn't explain it.
2. Palpatine knew this would happen but deliberately kept it hidden from Anakin, which is why he told him that he (Anakin) did it.
3. Vader gradually worked this out in the years leading up to Return of the Jedi, but never really knew for sure. Killing Palpatine at the end was as much for Padme as it was for Luke.

Spoiler: Quote spoilered for length

Show

The problem is that midichlorians are subcellular symbiotes. Like mitochondria or chloroplasts.

So the twins couldn't "consume" Padme's midichlorians like that.

...Honestly, considering that sperm cells only have DNA, no major organelles and that in real life your mitochondrial DNA comes exclusively from your mother becuase you're just inheriting some of her mitochondria, that would suggest that either Padme was a force prodigy on the same level as Anakin bu never achieved that potential... Or

It's been said, I can't remember where that Midichlorians can reproduce themselves within your cells and that regular use of the force will result in a steady increase of your midichlorian count over time*. It's possible that the traits that Anakin passed on to his children that let them by such powerful force users were that he's just... A very, very good host of Midichlorians allowing them to reproduce themselves far more easily within his system.

*Which would explain why Anakin having a higher midichlorian count than Yoda is such a big deal. Yoda's the oldest living force user on record at this point in time.

My understanding of current canon is that the midichlorians are the physical manifestation of the Force, or it's purest manifestation at any rate given that everything alive is a manifestation of the Force in a sense. Everything alive in Star Wars is implied to be alive only because of the Midichlorians, who themselves are spontaneously generated on a world called the Wellspring of Life*, and then spread throughout the Galaxy. They cluster around and inside things, like people and animals but also locations, that are strongly linked to the Force.

Fundamentally they seem to be the source of the Star Wars equivalent of a soul, acting as a conduit through which the Force can endow a living thing with life itself, and in turn linking that life to the Force. They gather in numbers sufficient to grant force sensitivity according to their own, or rather the Force's own purposes.


*A world upon which there are plants and animals, but they cease to exist when taken off the planet as they are manifestations of the Force. The native flora and fauna do not need water, sunlight or food, only the Force.

[EggKookoo]

...Honestly, considering that sperm cells only have DNA, no major organelles and that in real life your mitochondrial DNA comes exclusively from your mother becuase you're just inheriting some of her mitochondria, that would suggest that either Padme was a force prodigy on the same level as Anakin bu never achieved that potential... Or

I admit I'm not an expert on the Star Wars EU, but I don't think midichlorians actually are mitochondria or anything like that. They live in peoples' cells, but they're not necessarily cellular components. I can imagine they can move if they need to.

[Peelee]

I admit I'm not an expert on the Star Wars EU, but I don't think midichlorians actually are mitochondria or anything like that. They live in peoples' cells, but they're not necessarily cellular components.

I think I can safely lay claim to being an expert on Star Wars EU, and this is correct. Midi-chlorians were microscopic life forms that symbiotically coexisted with existing cells.

[Rater202]

I think I can safely lay claim to being an expert on Star Wars EU, and this is correct. Midi-chlorians were microscopic life forms that symbiotically coexisted with existing cells.

Okay, yeah, but that would still raise the question of how Anakin would be able to pas his midi-chlorian count down to his children.

Unless it's just "he's a particularly good host of them" and that's a heritable genetic factor.

[Lord Raziere]

I think I can safely lay claim to being an expert on Star Wars EU, and this is correct. Midi-chlorians were microscopic life forms that symbiotically coexisted with existing cells.

......I can't believe I'm saying this, but I think liked it better when that is what they were.

the current canon makes the Force too close to being something demiurgic/creator-like for my tastes.

[Peelee]

Okay, yeah, but that would still raise the question of how Anakin would be able to pas his midi-chlorian count down to his children.

He didn't. Luke's was lower. Also, they don't work like straight genetics - it's more like how being magical works in Harry Potter. There are magical bloodlines but you can also be born into a non magical bloodline as magical.

And frankly, screw all series for incorporating elements like that. God forbid that they not create a separate class of people who are better than "normal" people.

......I can't believe I'm saying this, but I think liked it better when that is what they were.

the current canon makes the Force too close to being something demiurgic/creator-like for my tastes.

I liked it better when Midi-chlorians weren't a thing at all, if we're going to go that route.

[EggKookoo]

Okay, yeah, but that would still raise the question of how Anakin would be able to pas his midi-chlorian count down to his children.

Unless it's just "he's a particularly good host of them" and that's a heritable genetic factor.

I would imagine it's something like that. It's pretty clear that sensitivity to the Force is (or appears to be) inheritable. Something causes the little guys to flock to Skywalkers. Just add in some weirdness due to Anakin being a vergence. His kids basically suck the midichlorians out of the mother (if she's not also a vergence).

Anyway, I like it better than she just nopes out.

[Lord Raziere]

I liked it better when Midi-chlorians weren't a thing at all, if we're going to go that route.

Yeah that too, I guess. Midichlorians were a mistake. there is no saving them.

[Rater202]

@Peelee: I mean, they did a "seperate class" of people the second it was established that only some people are sensative to the force enough to use it, regardless of the explanation.

I would imagine it's something like that. It's pretty clear that sensitivity to the Force is (or appears to be) inheritable. Something causes the little guys to flock to Skywalkers. Just add in some weirdness due to Anakin being a vergence. His kids basically suck the midichlorians out of the mother (if she's not also a vergence).

Anyway, I like it better than she just nopes out.

I mean, she didn't just note out.

She got strangled and then immediately went into a difficult labor with less than optimal medical conditions. And lost the will to live after seeing Anakin fall completly to the Dark Side, try to kill her in a fit of rage, and then presumably finding out that he died horribly (as Obi-wan thought at the time.)

and... IRC the Labor was somewhat premature. She was still at a point where she could hide the pregnancy given enough prep time in getting dressed.

The idea that she was on the cusp of death, or even just flat out dying, due to the combination of stress and damage from the strangulation and from the labor in and of itself would be enough to justify her dying even before taking in the psychosomatic effects of losing the will to carry on while in a physically fragile state.

No need to make up something about the twins being parasites.

[Peelee]

@Peelee: I mean, they did a "seperate class" of people the second it was established that only some people are sensative to the force enough to use it, regardless of the explanation.

This was established at the same time. Regardless, even if one of the movie novelizations has it start during ESB instead of RotJ, I have great distaste for it.

[Rater202]

This was established at the same time. Regardless, even if one of the movie novelizations has it start during ESB instead of RotJ, I have great distaste for it.

I'm pretty sure it was established in New Hope when two unrelated people dismissed the existence of The Force as just "ancient/hokey" religion instead of a known, tangible phenomenon?

[Peelee]

I'm pretty sure it was established in New Hope when two unrelated people dismissed the existence of The Force as just "ancient/hokey" religion instead of a known, tangible phenomenon?

To the best of my knowledge, anyone can join a religion. If someone made a religion based around kung fu, would you say that one needed to be born as a martial artist to learn kung fu? Or simply that it required great discipline and a teacher, and the art had died out since there were very few practitioners left alive?

[Rater202]

To the best of my knowledge, anyone can join a religion. If someone made a religion based around kung fu, would you say that one needed to be born as a martial artist to learn kung fu? Or simply that it required great discipline and a teacher, and the art had died out since there were very few practitioners left alive?

...Instead of responding to that I'm just going to explain mylogic.

If literally, everyone had the potential to use the Force, or even just a significant minority... Force users would be relatively common, becuase people would eventually stumble into at least minor applications. There would be hard evidence that the Force is real.

Like, my exposure to the expanded universe is almost certainly less than yours but I never got the implication that using the Force was particularly difficult. Big things maybe, but not force use in general. If Force sensitivity was common you'd be seeing children levitating marbles as just a game.

The simple fact that it is possible for someone to be so sure that the Force doesn't exist that he implies it's non-existance so while talking down to a Dark Lord of the Sith would strongly suggest that Force use isn't common enough for there to be proof of its existance.

This would in turn strongly suggest that there's some limiting factor on how many people can use The Force, keeping them a small minority of the population.

[Peelee]

All of this reply assumes information only in the original movie.

Okay I clearly explained my logic poorly.

If literally, everyone had the potential to use the Force, or even just a significant minority... Force users would be relatively common

No, you explain your logic fine. It's just that your logic is faulty. You make great assumptions here. Literally anybody (or even just a significant minority) has the potential to be, say, a professional golfer, and yet there are statistically very, very, very few professional golfers out there. Because it's really hard, it requires an enormous amount of time and effort, and you need a teacher to be able to learn it.

Except, with the Force, all of that is ramped up significantly and you also need belief and trust in yourself, and to let go.

Let me give an example. You have the potential to be a business owner. I'm willing to bet that owning your own business would improve your life considerably. You do not own a business. There are a myriad of reasons for this, I'm sure. But you don't own a business because of those reasons. Just like people didn't become Force users because of those reasons. Now, you might say, "But Peelee, that's not fair! Business owners are relatively common!" Well, so were Force users. There were Jedi for a thousand generations. They are not common now because they were all killed.

None of this in any way necessitates or even hints at the idea that Force use is restricted to only a certain class of people. Heck, Tarkin even calls it a religion after seeing Vader use the Force to choke Motti, which doesn't faze Tarkin one bit, which makes your line of thought as "religion means they don't believe in it" incorrect.

Think of it like a kung fu movie. Anyone can learn kung fu, so why don't the poor villagers use their own kung fu against the evil villain? Because they had other things to do instead of learning kung fu, and they need the hero who did learn kung fu to help. Despite the fact that the entire village could have learned it.

[Rynjin]

All of this reply assumes information only in the original movie.


No, you explain your logic fine. It's just that your logic is faulty. You make great assumptions here. Literally anybody (or even just a significant minority) has the potential to be, say, a professional golfer, and yet there are statistically very, very, very few professional golfers out there. Because it's really hard, it requires an enormous amount of time and effort, and you need a teacher to be able to learn it.

There might not be a ton of professional golfers, but there sure are a bajillion amateur ones.

Going by your same logic, there should be an equal bajillion of "Force dabblers", or "Force hobbyists". Perhaps even "Force enthusiasts" who self-teach themselves how to be more than halfway competent at it.

But there aren't. They are also a rarity.

If the ability to use the Force even at a minor level was present in everyone, it would be used by almost everyone to some extent.

[Peelee]

There might not be a ton of professional golfers, but there sure are a bajillion amateur ones.

Going by your same logic, there should be an equal bajillion of "Force dabblers", or "Force hobbyists". Perhaps even "Force enthusiasts" who self-teach themselves how to be more than halfway competent at it.

But there aren't. They are also a rarity.

If the ability to use the Force even at a minor level was present in everyone, it would be used by almost everyone to some extent.

You're right. I probably should have added something like "Except, with the Force, all of that is ramped up significantly and you also need belief and trust in yourself, and to let go."

[Rater202]

But being a Force User isn't like being a professional golfer or a business owner.

It's literally an extra sense. Obi-Wan can literally feel Alderan exploding and everyone on it dying from lightyears away. If Force use was universal than when he's training Luke to use the Force he doesn't start with levitating objects or mind tricks, he has Luke put on a helmet with an opaque blast shield so that his sight won't distract him from what he detects with the Force and has him deflect blaster shots from a training droid...

This strongly suggests that sensing things through the force isn't a trained skill but just an inherent aspect of being able to use the Force.

If this was universal, or even common, people would notice. It would become common knowledge that people can be aware of things that they didn't perceive with their physical senses. People would be taught about it in schools.

[Peelee]

But being a Force User isn't like being a professional golfer or a business owner.

It's literally an extra sense. Obi-Wan can literally feel Alderan exploding and everyone on it dying from lightyears away. If Force use was universal than when he's training Luke to use the Force he doesn't start with levitating objects or mind tricks, he has Luke put on a helmet with an opaque blast shield so that his sight won't distract him from what he detects with the Force and has him deflect blaster shots from a training droid...

This strongly suggests that sensing things through the force isn't a trained skill but just an inherent aspect of being able to use the Force.

If this was universal, or even common, people would notice. It would become common knowledge that people can be aware of things that they didn't perceive with their physical senses. People would be taught about it in schools.

Let's take that Alderaan exploding bit. Luke, quite notably, felt nothing. Luke, also notably, just began his training. Do you think this is some crazy coincidence? Perhaps Luke felt it and just thought it was that blue milk coming back on him?

[Rynjin]

You're right. I probably should have added something like "Except, with the Force, all of that is ramped up significantly and you also need belief and trust in yourself, and to let go."

Which also doesn't make any sense, because it would imply that every over-confident prick with a Death Star sized ego would be slinging around Force lightning, which is clearly not the case.

There is never any indication that every creature in the universe has the capability to use the Force.

[Peelee]

Which also doesn't make any sense, because it would imply that every over-confident prick with a Death Star sized ego would be slinging around Force lightning, which is clearly not the case.

With what teacher? This needs to be taught, remember?