What's your favorite headcanon? 3: The mods must be crazy

[Rynjin]

With what teacher? This needs to be taught, remember?

Except for all the people who clearly didn't need to be taught, eh?

[Rater202]

Let's take that Alderaan exploding bit. Luke, quite notably, felt nothing. Luke, also notably, just began his training. Do you think this is some crazy coincidence? Perhaps Luke felt it and just thought it was that blue milk coming back on him?

Yes, obviously Luke didn't have a reaction...

...But he was still depicted as being able to see things without seeing them. He very noticeably did not get shot by the training droid. As far as we know this was his first lesson.

"I'm going to blindfold you so you can learn to rely on your extrasensory perception rather than your vision" makes much more sense than "I'm going to blindfold you and have this floating robot shoot at you until learn how to see without eyes."

A natural aptitude becoming stronger with training does not preclude people having an inherent base level.\

Edit: Should we start a Star Wars discussion thread?

Edit 2: Neve rmind I drastically misremembered that scene.

[Peelee]

Yes, obviously Luke didn't have a reaction...

...But he was still depicted as being able to see things without seeing them. He very noticeably did not get shot by the training droid. As far as we know this was his first lesson.

Yes. After explicitly being told what to do by a teacher, which seemed entirely counterintuitive.

Except for all the people who clearly didn't need to be taught, eh?

I'm sorry, who in the first movie didn't need to be taught?

[Rynjin]

You're the one who decided to arbitrarily limit the discussion to just one movie out of 9 (not counting EU stuff), not me.

[Rater202]

Yes. After explicitly being told what to do by a teacher, which seemed entirely counterintuitive.


I'm sorry, who in the first movie didn't need to be taught?

Gonna admit that double-checking I misremembered that scene, but...

It's also counterintuitive for humans to rely on hearing instead of sight. From context, Luke is being taught to rely on his extrasensory perception instead of his vision.

Which would require him to have extrasensory perception in the first place.

I mean, try to teach someone to use a sense that they don't have. They're not even going to be able to understand what you're talking about. And you might not even be able to put it in words they can understand.

[Peelee]

You're the one who decided to arbitrarily limit the discussion to just one movie out of 9 (not counting EU stuff), not me.

It wasn't arbitrary. It was literally the basis for this entire discussion - that the "family lineage/only certain people can use the force" was not present before RotJ. If you want to talk about the sequel trilogy when the entire discussion is based around just the first movie, that's your own thing.

Gonna admit that double-checking I misremembered that scene, but...

It's also counterintuitive for humans to rely on hearing instead of sight. From context, Luke is being taught to rely on his extrasensory perception instead of his vision.

Which would require him to have extrasensory perception in the first place.

I mean, try to teach someone to use a sense that they don't have. They're not even going to be able to understand what you're talking about. And you might not even be able to put it in words they can understand.

... And how does this preclude anyone else from having it and being taught it? You've made an excellent case that Luke could be taught to use the Force, but I don't know how that makes the case of "only Luke and a few others could be taught that".

[Rynjin]

It wasn't arbitrary. It was literally the basis for this entire discussion - that the "family lineage/only certain people can use the force" was not present before RotJ. If you want to talk about the sequel trilogy when the entire discussion is based around just the first movie, that's your own thing.

It seemed pretty apparent in the prequels as well, which is what kicked this discussion off. That's where midichlorians were introduced.

[Peelee]

It seemed pretty apparent in the prequels as well, which is what kicked this discussion off. That's where midichlorians were introduced.

Yes, and then I made an assertion which took the discussion in a new direction. If you want to talk about the prequels, then I have no idea why you are quoting my posts, because it should have been readily apparent for some time now that I'm not talking about that.

ETA: Or, to put it another way, what you're talking about has exactly as much relevance as if someone came in to rebut my arguments by bringing up Super Troopers. Sure, it was talked about before, but it's not being talked about now, and acting like it is and saying it's my fault for talking about Star Wars is an odd take.

[Rater202]

I'm gonna ask again if we should start a general Star Wars discussion thread.

... And how does this preclude anyone else from having it and being taught it? You've made an excellent case that Luke could be taught to use the Force, but I don't know how that makes the case of "only Luke and a few others could be taught that".

Because if literally everyone, or even a significant minority, had the basic level of ESP needed for that training to do anything at all people would have noticed. It would be something taught about in schools along with the other senses.

[Peelee]

I'm gonna ask again if we should start a general Star Wars discussion thread.

Because if literally everyone, or even a significant minority, had the basic level of ESP needed for that training to do anything at all people would have noticed. It would be something taught about in schools along with the other senses.

In Rater World, perhaps. In Star Wars world, apparently not.

Not everything works like you think it should, or would.

[Rynjin]

Yes, and then I made an assertion which took the discussion in a new direction. If you want to talk about the prequels, then I have no idea why you are quoting my posts, because it should have been readily apparent for some time now that I'm not talking about that.

ETA: Or, to put it another way, what you're talking about has exactly as much relevance as if someone came in to rebut my arguments by bringing up Super Troopers. Sure, it was talked about before, but it's not being talked about now, and acting like it is and saying it's my fault for talking about Star Wars is an odd take.

This is such an odd take on how discussions work in open forums; one person doesn't just get to decide "this is what the conversation is about now and everything else is irrelevant".

So yes, I suppose I will bow out of this conversation since there's no way to have a rational one anymore.

Anyway, this is now a Spider-man thread.

My headcanon is the entire Marvel universe is just a hell crafted to torture Peter Parker specifically. He is only allowed to progress in life so it may be brutally torn down.

[Peelee]

This is such an odd take on how discussions work in open forums; one person doesn't just get to decide "this is what the conversation is about now and everything else is irrelevant".

So yes, I suppose I will bow out of this conversation since there's no way to have a rational one anymore.

Anyway, this is now a Spider-man thread.

My headcanon is the entire Marvel universe is just a hell crafted to torture Peter Parker specifically. He is only allowed to progress in life so it may be brutally torn down.

Imean, I made a claim about one thing, and you responded about a different thing as if it was relevant.

If you started to talk about Spider-Man, and I said "no, that's wrong, because X happened in Star Wars," then even though I'm acting as if I'm responding to what you wrote, I'm really not. And no amount of "well YOU'RE the one who arbitrarily changed the topic to Spider-Man" will make my response relevant.

[Rater202]

Anyway, this is now a Spider-man thread.

My headcanon is the entire Marvel universe is just a hell crafted to torture Peter Parker specifically. He is only allowed to progress in life so it may be brutally torn down.

So you're honestly not that fair off.

It's been implied for the last couple of years and then finally outright confirmed recently that Mephisto is actively scheming to destroy Peter Parker and people associated with him and that a lot of situations where the universe just seems to kick Peter in the teeth are Mephisto's doing.

In short, Mephisto possesses the power to see his own destiny, his own future, and how it changes.

He foresees himself, one day, Unleashing Hell on Earth and creating a Kingdom of the Damned that puts him above and beyond any other Hell-Lord... And then it all comes crashing down due to the work of Spider-Man...

...Or his daughter.

Or someone that Spider-Man mentored...

Or influenced.

We see the same scene twice, once with Peter swinging into action despite clearly having been through Hell, and once with what looks like Mayday Parker(MC2 Spider-Girl) or maybe an older Anna-May with shorter hair(Renew Your Vows) or some other hypothetical Parker child.

Etc.

Mephisto wants to such Peter and destroy his allies in order to prevent such futures from happening... But no matter what Mephisto does, what hell and torture PEter experiences, no matter how close he comes to breaking... He just... Won't... Stop. He just gets back up, works through the pain and truama, and keeps going. More dedicated than ever.

[Lord Raziere]

He just... Won't... Stop. He just gets back up, works through the pain and truama, and keeps going. More dedicated than ever.

Indeed, the "I'm a marvel and I'm a DC" arc where the Joker tries break all the heroes by using mind control to make them think their loved ones died was one of the best, because Joker did all he could to Spiderman....and it didn't change anything. he was still Spiderman. he didn't turn evil, no matter how great the pain done to him. It was probably one of the best stories one could do to crossover Marvel and Dc universes because it shows just why Spiderman is iconic as Batman or Superman: he embodies someone who doesn't become corrupt or twisted no matter what pain the world throws at him.

[Rater202]

Indeed, the "I'm a marvel and I'm a DC" arc where the Joker tries break all the heroes by using mind control to make them think their loved ones died was one of the best, because Joker did all he could to Spiderman....and it didn't change anything. he was still Spiderman. he didn't turn evil, no matter how great the pain done to him. It was probably one of the best stories one could do to crossover Marvel and Dc universes because it shows just why Spiderman is iconic as Batman or Superman: he embodies someone who doesn't become corrupt or twisted no matter what pain the world throws at him.

Honestly, all of the BEst Heroes in the Marvel Universe could be defined by the phrase "keep getting up."

Whenever Marvel does a "hero" moment its in the context of a someone persisting in the face of prolonged physical or emotional anguish or pushing past their limits or just flat out refusing to die becuase they know that bad things will happen to innocent people if they don't.

[EggKookoo]

The idea that she was on the cusp of death, or even just flat out dying, due to the combination of stress and damage from the strangulation and from the labor in and of itself would be enough to justify her dying even before taking in the psychosomatic effects of losing the will to carry on while in a physically fragile state.

No need to make up something about the twins being parasites.

People survive far worse in SW. I mean sure, he kinda crushed her windpipe a bit. But she was still breathing for hours(?) afterward. What damage could he do to her that they couldn't repair? Especially considering the damage Anakin survives (among others). Watch the birthing scene again. She's breathing very well and talking clearly. There's nothing wrong with that trachea.



Also, didn't the droid say she shouldn't have died, and that she was perfectly healthy? I'm not disputing that a person can die from a "broken heart," although IRL that usually means some actual issue like a stroke brought on by emotional stress. I'm saying even in the fiction, no one could explain her death.

[Rater202]

In Zero Lap Thirty, an episode of Bob's Burgers, the elder Belchers win seats in a Larp event based on a drama that Linda likes, advertised as being a chance to live the life of the main characters, a group of wealthy people with servants in the early 20th century.

They get there... And are assigned the roles of servants.

They are then treated far more harshly, alongside with the majority of the people in th eLARP, leaving only a handful of people to actually get the advertized experience.

As in, on call 24/7, expected to do a bunch of pointless chores in addition to their stated duties(most of which have no bearing on the LARP) and being fed nothing but gruel which is... Not historically accurate. Servants in this time period would have at a bare minimum gotten bread and meat and would often get the leftovers of the big fancy meals like the ones that the handful of people who were actually getting what they won/paid for were getting at every meal.

My headcanon is that the people running the LARP did this on purpose. They didn't want to pay for servants... Or knew that it would be illegal to treat employees that way, so they deliberately set up their LARP so that most of the participants would be paying them for the privilege of doing all the grunt work.

[Peelee]

In My headcanon is that the people running the LARP did this on purpose. They didn't want to pay for servants... Or knew that it would be illegal to treat employees that way,

You would be surprised.

[Rater202]

You would be surprised.

I don't think it's legal to make someone work for 72 hours straight with little to no sleep on a diet of gruel.

[Bohandas]

In Dune, Yueh's attempt on the Baron's life was planned deliberately by Piter De Vries without the Baron;s knowledge. That is the real secret to how he broke Yueh's conditioning. The conditioning would not have such a reputation for inviolability if it could br broken by something as simple as holding a man's wife hostage, anybody could have thought of that. It was actually broken by suggesting a way to get revenge for the kidnapping that happened to also involve giving into the kidnapper's demands. It also explains why Piter was so quick to kill Yueh; he didn't want him to give the game away and get him in trouble for coming up with a plan that endangered his employer (or possibly he was even deliberately trying to get the Baron killed because of the Baron's constant threats and belittlement)

I admit however that this theory does have one flaw, which is Piter's apparent lack of an exit strategy when the attack actually came.

[Eldan]

I don't think it's legal to make someone work for 72 hours straight with little to no sleep on a diet of gruel.

There are actually LARPs like that. Like, you fly to somewhere in Eastern Europe and live as the population of a manor house in the 19th century for a weekend, including being given costumes, jobs and a backstory. Some people do indeed sign up as servants.

I've actually watched a documentary on one that ended with half the men being drafted for world war I, too.

[Rater202]

There are actually LARPs like that. Like, you fly to somewhere in Eastern Europe and live as the population of a manor house in the 19th century for a weekend, including being given costumes, jobs and a backstory. Some people do indeed sign up as servants.

Yeah... But 1: Servants back then weren't treated this badly.

2: an experience you're paying for is different from an experience you're being paid to do. My headcanon is that this scheme was an attempt to get out of paying for servants... Or you know, not being able to get people who'd agree to work for 72 hours straight on no sleep and a diet of gruel.

3: The characters were assigned by the staff and the players who were assigned servant roles were made to carry everyone else's luggage from the gate to the manor instead of driving up in the car before the game started with the justifications that "oh, no, you're poor servants. You're lucky just to see an automobile."

In the show, people signed on expecting they'd be pretending to be 1900s rich people only for most of them to be forced into what amounts to slave labor.

[Fyraltari]

In Dune, Yueh's attempt on the Baron's life was planned deliberately by Piter De Vries without the Baron;s knowledge. That is the real secret to how he broke Yueh's conditioning. The conditioning would not have such a reputation for inviolability if it could br broken by something as simple as holding a man's wife hostage, anybody could have thought of that. It was actually broken by suggesting a way to get revenge for the kidnapping that happened to also involve giving into the kidnapper's demands. It also explains why Piter was so quick to kill Yueh; he didn't want him to give the game away and get him in trouble for coming up with a plan that endangered his employer (or possibly he was even deliberately trying to get the Baron killed because of the Baron's constant threats and belittlement)

I admit however that this theory does have one flaw, which is Piter's apparent lack of an exit strategy when the attack actually came.

Yueh does say that it is his hatred for the Baron, rather than his love for Wanna that broke his conditionning (however, one can of Wanna's Bene Gesserit mind whammy didn't interfere with the Suk School's mind whammy) and Jessica seems to believe that Piter is much more dangerous than the Baron suspects. However, I am not sure Yueh would agree to a plan given to him by Piter and this seems like a very dangerous gamble for the Mentat to hinge both betrayals on one man.

In the end, I just prefer the notion that Yueh was his own man rather than Piter's puppet. It seems more satisfying this way.

[Cikomyr2]

Yueh does say that it is his hatred for the Baron, rather than his love for Wanna that broke his conditionning (however, one can of Wanna's Bene Gesserit mind whammy didn't interfere with the Suk School's mind whammy) and Jessica seems to believe that Piter is much more dangerous than the Baron suspects. However, I am not sure Yueh would agree to a plan given to him by Piter and this seems like a very dangerous gamble for the Mentat to hinge both betrayals on one man.

In the end, I just prefer the notion that Yueh was his own man rather than Piter's puppet. It seems more satisfying this way.

I like the idea that what broke the conditioning was a loophole in the conditioning. The plan to destroy the Baron would still "serve House Atreides" in a way.

I also like the idea that the Baron/Pietr only managed to *accidentally* break the conditioning. They pulled some strings, and they ended up with a result they couldnt foresee but thought of themselves as the Real Geniuses.

In all of that, it was Yueh himself who managed to break the conditioning. Baron/Pietr just gave him the incentive to do so. Yueh then proceeded to **** with them and their objectives at every possible moment by doing their best to help Jessica and Paul escape.

[Bohandas]

Another Dune related headcanon of mine is that the spice breaks down the collagen in people's eyes. This results in the blue sclera characteristic both of prolonged melange use and of real life collagen disorders such as osteogenesis imperfecta

Spoiler

Show

[Rater202]

Simpsons headcanon: Marge needs Homer more tha homer needs Marge.

Evidence 1: Several episodes show marge casting moral judgement on homer, or groups that include homer, that are... Really not okay. This ranges from relatively benign things like trying to get "Ultimate Punching," an MMA ring based in Springfield, banned becuase "this is not to my taste,therefore no one should be allowed to enjoy it." (Granted,t he guy running it is a real jerk, but that just means evil for evil's sake) to thinks that are actively harmful to her family like saying that Bart should feel sorry for Lisa after she accidentally crippled him instead of pointing out that he had nothing to feel guilty about, reuslting in Bart forsaking his only chance to get the experimental surgery needed to fix his arm in order to have an animal sanctuary named after Lisa...

2: Ranging off of the first, Marge often does what she feels is right... To the detriment of her family. My go to example is Bart Gets Hit By a Car.

Now, to preface this: I am not condoning frivolous lawsuits or lying in court. But it was Lionel Hutz who put the idea of sewing Burns for a hard million and being dirty about it in Homer's head(honestly, just telling the truth from the beginning would have cinched the trial) and Marge... doesn't seem to think they need any compensation at all. Homer only went to Hutz because Mr. Burns offered him an insultingly low settlement and when Homer, quite timidly, began to explain that that didn't even come close to Bart's medical bills, Burns retracted the settlement and angrily threatened to destroy the Simpsons in court.

In the climax of the trial, marge... Says that the only damage they suffered was that Bart wasn't able to take out the trash that week and so didn't get his five-dollar allowance.

Not the medical bills that Homer alluded to, which the Simpsons apparently had to cover out of pocket. Not any pain and suffering compensation for... Bart Died from his injuries for fricks sake. He died, he went to Hell, and then he was resuscitated at the hospital after SAtan sent him back after his record keeper said Bart wasn't supposed to be dead yet.

Lying about the extent of Bart's injuries was wrong, but Marge... drastically undervalued her own son here.

(This gets worse over time, as later episodes establish that Mr. Burns is a cartoonishly evil figure who frequently gets away with far more horrible things, that he's a multibillionaire who can easily afford to lose a million dollars, various episodes showing the Simpsons suffering from financial hardships, and the fact that in real life the cost of healthcare in the United States has skyrocketed since the episode aired making Homer's comment about Bart's medical bills sting a lot more than it did at the time.)

3: While there have been several episodes showing MArge feeling frustrated with Homer's boorishness and tendency to wind up on adventures while she's at home doing housework... There's an entire episode where Homer mends his reckless ways and Marge gets so stir crazy that she impulsively enters a demolition derby and almost dies. She essentially needs to live vicariously through Homer's shennanigans to avoid putting herself in life-threatening danger.

4: While there are several jokes about Homer being an alcoholic... He's not. An alcoholic is someone who, for whatever reason, cannot regulate their drinking. Whether they drink often or rarely, once they start drinking, they have trouble stopping. Often they are addicted to alcohol, have some chemical or emotional dependency on the substance, a need to drink just to get through the day.

While Homer is often shown drinking in excess and turning to alcohol to ease his pain... Multiple episodes establish that he actually can give it up any time he likes. While he would often very much like a Duff to help him through the day, he doesn't need it. He can have one beer and then stop, and when he has to give up beer cold turkey he never shows withdrawal symptoms. He's just kind of upset that he can't drink, so not only is he not an alcoholic, he's not even an addict. At the end of the day, he drinks because he likes beer.

Marge on the other hand... In no particular order:

• She gets hooked on adrenaline after beating up a mugger, impulsively joins the police force to get her to fix.
• Is a confirmed gambling addict with an entire episode about it and several episodes calling back to it establishing that she... Doesn't quite have a lid on it.
• Outdrinks homer at a wine tasting, leading to her going out drinking with him and repeatedly getting drink off her ass, once with very little temptation needed to make her drink copious amounts of alcohol when she said she wouldn't.
• Gets drunk on power and engages in multiple road rage incidents after getting a Canyonero, rage issues are addressed but not resolved in the episode.
• Gets hooked on feelings of power after she takes up body building and finds herself confident enough to go outside again after being mugged and beating the absoluste **** out of her mugger, turns to pro body building gets hooked on steroids.
• Not only is she shown to be a screen addict(Binging articles on multiple devices while locked in the closet for god's sake) but she projects it on the family, claiming that they all are addicted as wel when... Other than a false start its's shown that no they're not.

5: homer is really the only person who 1: Knows what Marge is like, 2: Loves her despite her flaws, 3: Treats her like a person instead of an object.

All together: Marge is terribly prone to self-destructive behaviors and it's really only dealing with Homer's nonsense that keeps her from doing it all the time. Homer is probably the only person in the world who will put up with her self-righteous behavior.

Meanwhile, mulitble epsidoes have established that Homer has an almost supernatural ability to land on his feat and bounce back, so to speak.

She needs him more than he needs her.

[Bohandas]

Gonna admit that double-checking I misremembered that scene, but...

It's also counterintuitive for humans to rely on hearing instead of sight. From context, Luke is being taught to rely on his extrasensory perception instead of his vision.

Which would require him to have extrasensory perception in the first place.

I mean, try to teach someone to use a sense that they don't have. They're not even going to be able to understand what you're talking about. And you might not even be able to put it in words they can understand.

There's a middle ground here. I think it might be more akin to trying to teach a human to do something entirely by smell

Marge on the other hand... In no particular order:

• She gets hooked on adrenaline after beating up a mugger, impulsively joins the police force to get her to fix.
• Is a confirmed gambling addict with an entire episode about it and several episodes calling back to it establishing that she... Doesn't quite have a lid on it.
• Outdrinks homer at a wine tasting, leading to her going out drinking with him and repeatedly getting drink off her ass, once with very little temptation needed to make her drink copious amounts of alcohol when she said she wouldn't.
• Gets drunk on power and engages in multiple road rage incidents after getting a Canyonero, rage issues are addressed but not resolved in the episode.
• Gets hooked on feelings of power after she takes up body building and finds herself confident enough to go outside again after being mugged and beating the absoluste **** out of her mugger, turns to pro body building gets hooked on steroids.
• Not only is she shown to be a screen addict(Binging articles on multiple devices while locked in the closet for god's sake) but she projects it on the family, claiming that they all are addicted as wel when... Other than a false start its's shown that no they're not.

Don't forget the various episodes where she drinks an excessive number of Long Island Iced Teas

4: While there are several jokes about Homer being an alcoholic... He's not. An alcoholic is someone who, for whatever reason, cannot regulate their drinking. Whether they drink often or rarely, once they start drinking, they have trouble stopping. Often they are addicted to alcohol, have some chemical or emotional dependency on the substance, a need to drink just to get through the day.

While Homer is often shown drinking in excess and turning to alcohol to ease his pain... Multiple episodes establish that he actually can give it up any time he likes. While he would often very much like a Duff to help him through the day, he doesn't need it. He can have one beer and then stop, and when he has to give up beer cold turkey he never shows withdrawal symptoms. He's just kind of upset that he can't drink, so not only is he not an alcoholic, he's not even an addict. At the end of the day, he drinks because he likes beer.

Homer's actual addiction is food, like in the episode where he gets kicked out of the buffet and then spends several hours looking for another buffet.

EDIT:
And if we count the Halloween episodes the compulsive eating is REALLY extreme, including at least two episodes where he can't stop eating parts of his own body (in "MMM... Homer" and the end of "The Devil and Homer Simpson")

[Gnoman]

You can't really count the Halloween episodes, as those are primarily pop-culture parodies with the Simpsons cast stuck in.


Homer's food issues do come across as more of an addiction than his drinking, but there's been a few episodes where he gets even that under control, IIRC.


In older seasons, the notion that Marge and Lisa are just as bad as Homer and Bart, but just repressing it, seems pretty intended.

[Dargaron]

In one of the Harry Potter books (I think it was Prisoner of Azkaban?) Harry and co. go shopping in Diagonally together, and we get to meet Hermione's parents exchanging money at Gringotts so that she can buy her school gear. They're presumably exchanging British Pounds for Wizard coins.

Now, money exchanges generally don't go only one way. If a financial institution is willing to "buy" your money, they must be expecting to be able to sell it at some point. And there are only so many Muggle aficionados like Arthur Weasley who'll buy it for the novelty (it's clear the one time he did use Muggle money onscreen that he has a very poor grasp of how it works, and this is a man whose main job is "interacting with Muggles").

So who in the Wizarding World is spending Muggle money? My theory: Goblins. They're forbidden from using wands by the British Ministry, but as a species, they're known for metallurgy and technical prowess. Unlike Wizards, Goblins have very good reason to invest in Muggle technology because they can't use traditional magic themselves.

Sure, maybe the ancient sword of Goderic Griffindor is made of "Goblin Steel," but nowadays, fashionable Goblins wouldn't be caught dead without their Goblin Space-Age Ceramic Polymer Blades. The abacuses and analog scales at Gringotts are just for show: they've got computer terminals with Microsoft Excel on them in the back rooms where the actual accounting takes place.

EDIT: My "Star Wars Force" headcanon is that an untrained Force user can use the Force to do improbable things. A trained Force user can use the Force to do impossible things. Things like correctly "guessing" a randomized image on a datapad, "unconsciously" making all the right split-second decisions in a podrace, or "just happening" to successfully land a shot on a 2 metre exhaust port without a targeting computer. All of these things could theoretically happen by chance: an untrained Force User does these things and chalks it up to "luck" or "hunches."

But what training does is let you do things that are actually impossible. Force Jump, Force Pull, Force Push etc. are flat-out supernatural powers. Normal people cannot do these things. As Yoda said, "Do or Do Not, there is no Try." In order to do these things, you need to believe with utmost certainty that they're possible, which means either an altered state of mind (like, say, hypothermia-induced delirium while hanging upside-down from the roof of a Wampa Cave) or training from someone who already knows these things are possible.

In D&D terms, an untrained Force user can get Advantage on their rolls. A trained Force user can cast spells.

[Peelee]

EDIT: My "Star Wars Force" headcanon is that an untrained Force user can use the Force to do improbable things. A trained Force user can use the Force to do impossible things. Things like correctly "guessing" a randomized image on a datapad, "unconsciously" making all the right split-second decisions in a podrace, or "just happening" to successfully land a shot on a 2 metre exhaust port without a targeting computer. All of these things could theoretically happen by chance: an untrained Force User does these things and chalks it up to "luck" or "hunches."

But what training does is let you do things that are actually impossible. Force Jump, Force Pull, Force Push etc. are flat-out supernatural powers. Normal people cannot do these things. As Yoda said, "Do or Do Not, there is no Try." In order to do these things, you need to believe with utmost certainty that they're possible, which means either an altered state of mind (like, say, hypothermia-induced delirium while hanging upside-down from the roof of a Wampa Cave) or training from someone who already knows these things are possible.

In D&D terms, an untrained Force user can get Advantage on their rolls. A trained Force user can cast spells.

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