do these spellbook tricks work?

[newguydude1]

get animals
tattoo spells onto them. they are now a tattoo spellbook.
if they die i remove their tattoo hide and continue using it as a spellbook.
if i lose the tattoo hide, i create a simulacrum of that animal and continue using it as a spellbook.

if this works then i cannot "lose" my spellbook as long as i can cast simulacrum.

---

get a spellbook
cast animate object on it

and thats it. if i can cast simulacrum i create a simulacrum of that animated object even though its no longer "alive" or "animated". if this works then i cannot "lose" my spellbook as long as i can cast simulacrum.

do these tricks work? or is there a problem?

[Khedrac]

Looking carefully at the simulacrum spell, this can actually be simplified to the following question:

Can I use the illusion of a spellbook as a spellbook?

Personally I think the answer is "no" (and for me the same goes for secret page). The illusion can show what looks like the text for casting a spell, but that is not the same thing as being the text and when you try to prepare a spell from it you will then realise that it is an illusion and not the real spell text.

[Uncle Pine]

Simulacrum creates an illusory duplicate of any creature. The duplicate creature is partially real and formed from ice or snow. [...] You must make a Disguise check when you cast the spell to determine how good the likeness is. A creature familiar with the original might detect the ruse with a successful Spot check (opposed by the caster’s Disguise check) or a DC 20 Sense Motive check.

The simulacrum of an animated spellbook isn't really a spellbook, it's a ruse. Any sufficiently skilled character will recognise it's as fake as a pamphlet covered in gibberish symbols with a crude drawing of a robed half-orc throwing a fireball in the front - it only looks more realistic. As such, even assuming you do fail the Spot/Sence Motive check to realise the spellbook is fake, I'd rule trying to prepare any spell from a simulacrum would simply result in 1 hour of wasted time.

I don't see much of a reason for tattooed hides not to work, but your "raw or die" DM might disagree:

Tattoos
By the use of tattoos, some wizards turn their own bodies into spellbooks,

This might mean you'd be required to use some really long duration method of possession to make the animal's body count as your own for the 24 hours + 8 hours per spell level necessary to scribe a spell on a tattoo spellbook.

Luckily for you, there are other far easier methods to not require a spellbook:
- Eidetic Spellcaster ACF (Dragon #357): give up your familiar*, your spellbook, and Scribe Scroll* to be able to store spells in your mind by burning herbs and incenses. *Note that these can be reacquired later as feats.
- Lucid Dreaming (Manual of the Planes): as long as you can succeed a DC 15 Lucid Dreaming skill check, you can prepare any spell you want by creating arcane architectures within Dream and studying them. Check this thread starting from the 21st post for more detailed explanations of why it works by RAW, as well as a bunch of other suggestions to overcome a "wizard's spellbook weakness".

[Gavinfoxx]

Tattoos are the basic go-to way to get your important 'self protection and spellbook retrieval' spells on yourself.

Here are some 'BEST PRACTICES' spellbook protection techniques

This is best done when the player character has access to a few thousand spare gp (for getting the useful spells, buying the components, etc. etc.)

BASICE PREMISE: HAVE MULTIPLE SPELLBOOKS. Make backup copies. Use different strategies in different books. Always have at least one on your person.

Choose either a very durable or a very hideable spellbook, for particular spellbooks

Very Durable options (generally use under wizard 5 spells):

-Just get a really durable book, made to be fire/water resistant, durable materials, etc. (rules in complete arcane & planar handbook)
-Make it magically durable based on those same rules
-Make it magically durable using Hardening
-Get a very high quality metal lock on it, of a durable metal (at least 12 hardness, one of the magical steels or mithral, at least), and trap the lock mundanely
-Arcane Mark (Sor/Wiz 0, Universal) it as yours (you will likely want to do this on a hidden one as well)
-Arcane Lock (Sor/Wiz 2, 25 gp, Abjuration) the lock
-Dragoneye Rune (Sor/Wiz 2, Dragon Magic, Universal) the book, asap -- this is very useful!
-Cast several casting of Explosive Runes on various pages and parts of the book (Sor/Wiz 3, Evocation)
-Put several Fire Traps (Sor/Wiz 4, Abjuration, 25 gp each) on it
-Put at least one phantom Trap (Sor/Wiz 2, 50 gp, Illusion) on it
-Put an Alarm spell (Sor/Wiz1, Abjuration) with Permanency (Sor/Wiz5, Universal, 500 xp) on it
-Put several alarming Magic Mouths (Sor/Wiz2, Illusion, 10 gp each) on various pages to shout that someone other than you opens the book
-Put Symbols of Sleep (Sor/Wiz5, Ench, 1000 gp), Pain (Sor/Wiz5, Nec, 1000 gp), Spell Loss (Sor/Wiz 5, Abj, Spell Compendium, 1000 gp) on different parts of the book
-Put Sepia Snake Sigil (Conjuration, Sor/Wiz5, 500 gp) on it
-Use Secret Page (Sor/Wiz3, Transmutation) on various pages to make it more difficult to read
-Put Watchware (Sor/Wiz 5, Abjuration, Unapproachable East, 500 gp) on it
-Use Alarm (and some of these other spells, watchware, dragoneye rune, arcane mark, etc.) on the container that holds the book
-Add castings of Magic Mouth at minimum caster level on things so that those are dispelled first, as sacrificial dispellings

-Find a Stone of Weight (DMG, SRD, 1000 gp, cursed item), and pay a Wizard to cast Polymorph Any Object on it twice, to make it a spellbook. Use the spell 'Mount' (Sor/Wiz1) or Phantom Steed (Sor/Wiz3) when you need to move somewhere. Suck up the movement penalty. Or have someone custom enchant a normal spellbook as a Stone of Weight.


Methods of Hiding the book:
-Make it not magical at all, if possible, and hide magic auras with the Magic Aura (Sor/Wiz 1, Illusion) spell
-Use Shrink Item (Sor/Wiz 3, Transmutation) regularly to hide it, probably in a Hidden Pocket (Complete Scoundrel) that is also in a Lead Lined (Complete Scoundrel) pouch, or in a Smuggler's Boot (Arms & Equipment Guide)
-Hide it with Gloves of the Master Strategist (Ghostwalk, 3600 gp)
-Make it seem like some other kind of book with Secret Page... AND put it in with other books, and make sure at least some of them are Secret Page'd too
-Make it able to be rolled up, and use the spell 'Hoard Gullet' (Sor/Wiz 1, Transmutation, Dragon Magic) to swallow it and regurgitate it when needed, with a Lesser Rod of Extend Spell, if necessary
-Put some of your spells on your clothing, or in the linings of other items that stay with you. Some of the most durable clothing materials are Earthsilk (Races of Stone)
-Have decoy spellbooks! Add magic auras with the Magic Aura spell as needed
-Use a few Spell Gems (Magic Item Compendium) for small versions of useful spells, especially ones that can help you find your main spellbook
-Put it in a Familiar Pocket (Sor/Wiz1, universal, Spell Compendium) every day, possibly as a Shrunk Item
-Put it in a Possum Pouch item (Song and Silence, 1800 gp) every day, possibly as a Shrunk Item. If possible, make the Possum Pouch a Handy Haversack

-Tattoo some of your most useful spells, especially for 'finding your spellbook' and 'protecting yourself when it is lost' on you, using the rules in Complete Arcane.

[newguydude1]

Looking carefully at the simulacrum spell, this can actually be simplified to the following question:

Can I use the illusion of a spellbook as a spellbook?

Personally I think the answer is "no" (and for me the same goes for secret page). The illusion can show what looks like the text for casting a spell, but that is not the same thing as being the text and when you try to prepare a spell from it you will then realise that it is an illusion and not the real spell text.

thats not really accurate. its not just an illusion. its a shadow creature. it is real. what your saying is shadow creatures made by shadow conjuration is just an illusion and cant use any of its abilities because its an illusion.

if shadow creatures slas, natural weapons, supernatural abilitiesm etc. work i dont see why mundane tattoos wont either. spellbooks are explicitly mundane.

I don't see much of a reason for tattooed hides not to work, but your "raw or die" DM might disagree:

spells on a spellbook page or tattood on a creature body should be the same thing. if a disguise check makes you fail one then it would make the other fail too. so either the spell accurately copies intricate details automatically for you or you have to do all of that yourself.

tattoo spellbook rules lets anyone scribe a tattoo on other creatures as long as they can make the skill check. and there are rules of using other peoples spellbooks. so by raw i am covered if the disguise check thing doesnt make tattoos a failstate.

Luckily for you, there are other far easier methods to not require a spellbook:
- Eidetic Spellcaster ACF (Dragon #357): give up your familiar*, your spellbook, and Scribe Scroll* to be able to store spells in your mind by burning herbs and incenses. *Note that these can be reacquired later as feats.

dm doesnt allow dragon, and i need my familiar for the build im planning. but thanks anyways.

- Lucid Dreaming (Manual of the Planes): as long as you can succeed a DC 15 Lucid Dreaming skill check, you can prepare any spell you want by creating arcane architectures within Dream and studying them. Check this thread starting from the 21st post for more detailed explanations of why it works by RAW, as well as a bunch of other suggestions to overcome a "wizard's spellbook weakness".

two problems.
i dont think you can create a architecture of a spell you dont know. its like saying casting silent image of a spellbook gives you the exact details you need of the spell and you just copy that into your spellbook. or saying you can make a spellbook with spells you dont know using major creation. so the only way this works is if dreamscapes are permanent so you can scribe it into your dreamscape upon level up.

anything you gain in a dreamscape is lost when you leave the dreamscape. so prepared spells could be lost when you leave the dreamscape.

snip

i want my character to be independent of things. when she is true resurrected i want her to be at full power shortly after. tattoo spellbooks can be thwarted by the erase spell so when she is true resurrected she could be spellbookless.

edit:
"Spells cannot truly be cast or learned" so yeah, lucid dreaming spellbook doesnt work. dreamscapes are also destroyed upon waking.

edit2:
ok thanks. i think im gonna stick with sorcerer instead of wizard unless someone tells me a method of making spellbooks that doesnt involve wish. cant blame me for trying. wizards get 5 more feats than sorcerers and multiple higher level spells 1 level earlier.

[Vaern]

edit2:
ok thanks. i think im gonna stick with sorcerer instead of wizard unless someone tells me a method of making spellbooks that doesnt involve wish. cant blame me for trying. wizards get 5 more feats than sorcerers and multiple higher level spells 1 level earlier.

Not gonna lie, I had a character die once and decided to try replacing him with a wizard starting at level 7 and trying to decide what spells I needed, what defenses I needed to have on my spellbook, backup plans in case I somehow lost my spellbook, what spells I should prepare scrolls of in case they were needed when I didn't have them prepared, figuring out how much all of that would cost, and then trying to decide what I could live without so I could free up some gold for actual equipment was such a hassle that I scrapped the character and just made a rogue instead.

[Malphegor]

Nautical spellbooks in the alternative spellbook options include knots in ropes of the right size and type and distance from each other to convey complex information.

Guess what a lot of wizards have? Hair.

Yes, wizard, stroking your tangled and knotted beard can be a perfectly valid way of checking through your spellbook.

[newguydude1]

actually i will go wizard.

spell mastery lets me cast spells without a spellbook. i only care about like less than 5 spells. so the only problem i have is that if i lose a spellbook, i need to wait a few levels until i can get spell mastery. there is this window of unhappiness. i dont like it.

but then i realized in this worst case scenario, my wizard is equal to my sorcerer. for example, my wizard gets a thing online at level 10 but need to wait until 12 for spell mastery if spellbook gets lost. my sorcerer gets the same thing online at level 12. so in all cases wizard still comes out ahead lol.

so yeah, wizard it is.

sorcerer seriously needs a buff........ it either needs bonus feats, undo its spell level acquisition delay, or both. because... like, theres no advantage!

[Gavinfoxx]

actually i will go wizard.

spell mastery lets me cast spells without a spellbook. i only care about like less than 5 spells. so the only problem i have is that if i lose a spellbook, i need to wait a few levels until i can get spell mastery. there is this window of unhappiness. i dont like it.

but then i realized in this worst case scenario, my wizard is equal to my sorcerer. for example, my wizard gets a thing online at level 10 but need to wait until 12 for spell mastery if spellbook gets lost. my sorcerer gets the same thing online at level 12. so in all cases wizard still comes out ahead lol.

so yeah, wizard it is.

sorcerer seriously needs a buff........ it either needs bonus feats, undo its spell level acquisition delay, or both. because... like, theres no advantage!

I believe the Stone of Weight trick will work even after resurrection.

[Nifft]

Tattoos are the basic go-to way to get your important 'self protection and spellbook retrieval' spells on yourself.

If this were a popular tactic, it would justify the widespread adoption of the Flensing spell.

[magicalmagicman]

actually i will go wizard.

spell mastery lets me cast spells without a spellbook. i only care about like less than 5 spells. so the only problem i have is that if i lose a spellbook, i need to wait a few levels until i can get spell mastery. there is this window of unhappiness. i dont like it.

but then i realized in this worst case scenario, my wizard is equal to my sorcerer. for example, my wizard gets a thing online at level 10 but need to wait until 12 for spell mastery if spellbook gets lost. my sorcerer gets the same thing online at level 12. so in all cases wizard still comes out ahead lol.

so yeah, wizard it is.

sorcerer seriously needs a buff........ it either needs bonus feats, undo its spell level acquisition delay, or both. because... like, theres no advantage!

Actually, you forgot about the wizard's bonus feat at 11 (assuming you are talking about your 1 Dread Necromancer/10 Wizard Build). So even your worst case scenario Wizard would be superior to the Sorcerer.

[newguydude1]

Actually, you forgot about the wizard's bonus feat at 11 (assuming you are talking about your 1 Dread Necromancer/10 Wizard Build). So even your worst case scenario Wizard would be superior to the Sorcerer.

lol

i did forget about it. haha sorcerer needs buffs badly.

I believe the Stone of Weight trick will work even after resurrection.

if the enemies are erasing all tattoos before murdering me, i think theyd also cast remove curse on the stone of weight once they notice it never leaves my side even when destroyed.

but that is a very smart strategy! kudos man. brilliant!

[Maat Mons]

If questionable shenanigans are what you're after, you could acquire a psi-like ability, take the Psicrystal Affinity feat, argue that you can enchant your psicrystal as an Aureon's Spellshard, and then argue that any new psicrystal you form retains the same benefits as the old one.

What's the Stone of Weight trick? Is it another one where you double-up an Aureon's Spellshard as something else?

Psion has some of the nice things of being a Sorcerer, and also some of the nice things of being a Wizard. Your spells are all in your head, but you can always add more for a price. Admittedly, the price is over 5,000 gp per level of the power added, assuming you can find an NPC to pay for a casting of Psychic Chiurgery.

Or there's the Erudite, if you don't want to be reliant on friendly NPCs of much higher level than you. Though that Unique Powers per Day limit is annoying.

[newguydude1]

If questionable shenanigans are what you're after, you could acquire a psi-like ability, take the Psicrystal Affinity feat, argue that you can enchant your psicrystal as an Aureon's Spellshard, and then argue that any new psicrystal you form retains the same benefits as the old one.

nope. creatures are not objects including constructs. my dm is raw or die. this fails.

What's the Stone of Weight trick? Is it another one where you double-up an Aureon's Spellshard as something else?

its a cursed item that can never leave your side. even when destroyed it reforms back onto you. and it halves your move speed. so the trick is to turn it into a spellbook so if it gets destroyed, stolen, misplaced, it will automatically come back to you.

but a simple remove curse spell can stop it from coming back to you.

[Vaern]

spell mastery lets me cast spells without a spellbook. i only care about like less than 5 spells. so the only problem i have is that if i lose a spellbook, i need to wait a few levels until i can get spell mastery. there is this window of unhappiness. i dont like it.

You shouldn't need to worry about losing your spellbook for so long that you need to take spell mastery to regain access to a portion of your spells. I'm pretty sure the common wizard's spellbook is treated to be resistant to anything it's likely to be exposed to, though I don't remember exactly where this is mentioned (complete arcane, perhaps?)... Unless your DM is particularly brutal you shouldn't have to worry about your spellbook being destroyed, and I'd expect that the worst thing you should have to worry about is being captured somehow and having your spellbook separated from you along with the rest of your equipment for a couple of sessions before you can reclaim it.

And if it's only 5 or less spells that you actually care about, you could just tattoo them on yourself instead of animals. And also carve them into your staff. And embroider them into your robes. There's nothing saying that you can't just have multiple copies of the same spell scribed into multiple "spellbooks" just in case one goes missing. For that matter, just have a second spellbook - maybe even fully stocked with all of your spells rather than just the five you want - in a safe deposit box at your home town's bank or something. Keeping a backup to fall back on in the event that you lose your original could end up being cheaper and more practical than placing literally all of the defenses on a single spellbook.

[Zanos]

If you're worried about losing your spellbook there are a couple of tricks that should help:
Take the Eidetic Wizard variant, which loses the familiar and scribe scroll, but has a spellbook in their brain that they memorize by smoking some kind of rad memory incense. Now you can justify your wizard always smoking a pipe.
Store it in a hoard gullet, which is an extradimensional space in your throat.
Store it in a secret chest.
If you're a sufficiently high level, just wish for a spellbook containing every wizard spell, or wish to teleport your spellbook back into your hands.
Take spontaneous divination and versatile spellcaster. You can now expend two spell slots to cast any spell you know that is one level higher. Fortunately a spell known for a wizard just means that it's in a spellbook that is 'yours', so as long as nobody else attunes to your spellbook or destroys it, you're good to go.
Take Spell Mastery->Uncanny Forethought, which is similar to the above but way more RAI.
Adventure via astral projection, either cast by a nightmare conjured with lesser planar binding, or by yourself if you're 17+. Your real spellbook is now never in any danger as your real body and equipment hangs out in a demiplane or portable hole or rope trick or whatever.

I see no reason your second simalcrum trick wouldn't work. Simalcrums are partially real. No amount of will saving throws or 'recognizing that it's fake' is going to save someone from being ripped in half by a simulacrum of a pit fiend, although someone screaming to their friends that it's 'just an illusion' as their spine is torn out is amusing. That said there's a certain degree of DM adjudication for what exactly it means for a creature to have it's HD and corresponding special abilities halved. An animated spellbook should have the same 'special abilities' regardless of Hit Dice. A DM out for your blood might rule that the simulacrum has half of your spells, or worse.

I don't think tattoo spellbooks work on other creatures. But you can tattoo yourself and make a simulacrum of yourself.

Despite knowing and having used some of these tricks, I can say with honesty I have never had my spellbook stolen in a real game, other than one where the DM had me start as being a prisoner, so I didn't get it back until the end of my first session.

[newguydude1]

If you're a sufficiently high level, just wish for a spellbook containing every wizard spell, or wish to teleport your spellbook back into your hands.
Take spontaneous divination and versatile spellcaster. You can now expend two spell slots to cast any spell you know that is one level higher. Fortunately a spell known for a wizard just means that it's in a spellbook that is 'yours', so as long as nobody else attunes to your spellbook or destroys it, you're good to go.
Take Spell Mastery->Uncanny Forethought, which is similar to the above but way more RAI.
Adventure via astral projection, either cast by a nightmare conjured with lesser planar binding, or by yourself if you're 17+. Your real spellbook is now never in any danger as your real body and equipment hangs out in a demiplane or portable hole or rope trick or whatever.

its the disguise check. if whether the tattoos are accurate or just complete gibberish depends on the disguise check, then that means i have to manually make the tattoos on the simulacrum which means the spell doesnt create the tattoos automatically for me. it just lets me do a disguise check. and if it doesnt make the tattoos automatically then that means im making them manually which means i need to know how the tattoos look like in order to do it which means i cant because spellbook memory erasing stuff.

[Yael]

So I came up with the idea of how to hide my spellbooks (there are four of them because Elven Generalist + Collegiate Wizard), in the Quintessential Wizard 3rd party sourcebook there's a 125 page spellbook variant, which I used (although a normal spellbook works).

• Cast Fabricate on some cheap metal (for cheap-looking jewelry), to create simple, cheap-looking earrings, you will need two sets, and they will have to be hollow.
• Cast Shrink Item on each spellbook, and them make them Permanent (1.5k XP).
• Swap one earring of the set for the other's opposite, so you will have one earring from 1 set and one earring from the other, which will be a perfectly nice focus for a future scrying spell in case of them getting lost.
• Close your earrings with an Arcane Lock spell, and then cast Magic Aura over that to prevent aura reading.
• Now, your spellbooks are of a fine size, inside your earrings, enclosed in cheap-looking earrings to avoid attention (as they would look to have no value at all), protected from emanations and damage, very difficult to be targeteed by the rogue and the ocassional thief searching through your belongings, and because of the effect of Shrink Item's Permanency, you can change their size at will.

Other ideas are great, too, the Dragoneye Rune spell is great to enhance these protections.
In case of anything going really wrong, be sure to keep a backup Blessed Book with all your spells in case of it being neccesary (because it costs no gp to copy spells, it makes an excelent backup).

At least that's what I came up with, other ideas may be less expensive and more efficient~

[Maat Mons]

I like the Shrink Item idea.

Spell Shards (Eberron Campaign Setting, p122) are variant spell books that store 20 pages each. They're fist-sized gems, so when shrunk they'd be quarter-inch gems.

Gems are easier to conceal in jewelry than tiny books. In fact, you don't even need to conceal the gems. They don't look at all out of place on jewelry.

[Toliudar]

I gotta say this:

From this and several other threads on here, it sounds like you're engaged in some kind of arms race with your DM, in which you're afraid that they're going to look for every opportunity to screw over your character. If so, are they doing this to just your character, or everyone at the table? If the latter, then how are other folks coping with this.

My solution, frankly, would be to go the opposite direction an ultra-protective approach. You can't win an arms race with the DM, RAW-or-die (whatever that means) or otherwise, because they have unlimited resources. Instead, create fun characters that do what you want them to do NOW, and if they're killed off in the first fight, you're back with another fun character for the next chapter, and so on. All of this scheming to protect your s*** is only encouraging behaviour to take away your s***, instead of focusing on the actual objectives of the game.

Sorry. I know that this is off topic.

[newguydude1]

I gotta say this:

From this and several other threads on here, it sounds like you're engaged in some kind of arms race with your DM, in which you're afraid that they're going to look for every opportunity to screw over your character. If so, are they doing this to just your character, or everyone at the table? If the latter, then how are other folks coping with this.

My solution, frankly, would be to go the opposite direction an ultra-protective approach. You can't win an arms race with the DM, RAW-or-die (whatever that means) or otherwise, because they have unlimited resources. Instead, create fun characters that do what you want them to do NOW, and if they're killed off in the first fight, you're back with another fun character for the next chapter, and so on. All of this scheming to protect your s*** is only encouraging behaviour to take away your s***, instead of focusing on the actual objectives of the game.

Sorry. I know that this is off topic.

you missed one of my threads then. the no wealth thing is a personal thing not a dm thing. he gives us wealth and shops so if i lose a spellbook im pretty sure i can just buy a new one. i just dont like playing a character who is 100% reliant on wealth. its a personal obsession. so even if the situation never arises it will forever bother me.

i hate playing characters that cant function without an entire civilization backing him up with spell components, magical materials, and magic items.

[Gavinfoxx]

So... why do you feel that way?

I don't think this personal obsession is very healthy. What got you so pissed at a character needing wealth in a game where characters are designed to need wealth, and a civilization backing them for basic competence?

[newguydude1]

i dont like being completely dependent on other people. if you dont function without wealth then you cant do anything without an entire nations supply chain helping you. if you function without wealth then you dont need anybody but yourself.

its also so my character is viable in all campaigns instead of only the ones that give shops with expensive stuff. stranded at sea and then shipwrecked and then trapped on a hostile uninhabited island? yeah, good luck playing a wizard who didnt pick spell mastery and uncanny forethought.

and this game doesnt need wealth. my no wealth psion was the strongest character in my party.

[Gavinfoxx]

You do know that the archetype of the KNIGHT is one which only functions with an entire supply chain and society and culture behind them? That it's necessary for that kind of warrior class whose only job is to fight? Otherwise, your character would be farming all the time.

And how most of this edition implies that the people with these sorts of abilities are the elites of the elites?

Sure, even a wbl-less Druid or Erudite Psion or Sorcerer or Cleric doesn't need wealth to function, once their abilities start working. But they sure as hell needed the output of a bunch of farmers with surplus food, and an economy to deliver that to them, to get them where they were!

[Maat Mons]

I, too, like the idea of equipment-optional characters.

And by "equipment-optional," I mean that they can do all their stuff butt-naked in an empty, sealed room, but they can also not prevented for using magic items and things if they happen to have them. So none of this Vow of Poverty crap.



Psions are indeed, completely equipment optional. But I don't think there's any other class that can work as well without equipment.

Druid comes close. But they still need a divine focus to cast many of their spells. I assume Druids who live in areas that don't natively have holy or mistletoe plants can use something else. But can any Druid use plants from any environment? Or do you have to pick a divine focus at 1st level, the same way a Cleric of a Good deity presumably can't use the holy symbol of an Evil deity as a divine focus for his spells?

Eschew Materials can make a Sorcerer gear-optional. Assuming none of the spells he took have a focus... or a material component that costs more than 1 gp.

Cleric can do pretty well, since they can take the Worldly Focus feat to be able to cast Cleric spells without a divine focus. Oddly, that feat doesn't let you Turn Undead without a holy symbol, but fortunately feats that let you expend Turn Undead uses for other effect don't require one, as far as I can tell. But while Druids have the natural armor of their Wild Shape forms, and Psions have Inertial Armor, Clerics are supposed to be getting their AC from armor. Without gear, you've either got to go with Dragonscale Husk or Warforged. Those options work, but are kind of limiting. Not sure what to do about weapons though.

It's all downhill from there. ... No, wait! Psychic Warriors can summon weapons! There's a power for it, and an ACF that makes it better. They'll still need to be Warforged or take Dragonscale Husk, but add them to the list.

Did I miss any others?



Spell Mastery doesn't fully get around the need for a spellbook. You can only take Spell Mastery for spells you already know. You only "know" a spell if it's in your spellbook. So you still have to acquire parchment and special inks (or whatever) at some point. After that, you can take Spell Mastery and do stuff without the spellbook, but the spellbook has to exist for at least a little while.

Interestingly, even Eidetic Wizard is reliant on special incense to learn new spells above and beyond the ones he gets for free when leveling up. And you'd still need some else's spellbook to look at, or a scroll. So if you can't get your hands on anything, you're only ever getting 2 new spells per level. ... Or maybe 5 if you combine Collegiate Wizard and Elven Generalist.

[Gavinfoxx]

There's a few more things you can add to Eidetic Wizard beyond Collegiate Wizard and Elven Generalist that help it.

[Vizzerdrix]

Just tossing out an idea. Cast minor servator on your spell book. Give it hidden talent: minor creation. If anyone takes it, it can cover itself in poison.

[newguydude1]

You do know that the archetype of the KNIGHT is one which only functions with an entire supply chain and society and culture behind them? That it's necessary for that kind of warrior class whose only job is to fight?

that is precisely why i will never play a knight in this game.

Spell Mastery doesn't fully get around the need for a spellbook. You can only take Spell Mastery for spells you already know. You only "know" a spell if it's in your spellbook. So you still have to acquire parchment and special inks (or whatever) at some point. After that, you can take Spell Mastery and do stuff without the spellbook, but the spellbook has to exist for at least a little while.

Interestingly, even Eidetic Wizard is reliant on special incense to learn new spells above and beyond the ones he gets for free when leveling up. And you'd still need some else's spellbook to look at, or a scroll. So if you can't get your hands on anything, you're only ever getting 2 new spells per level. ... Or maybe 5 if you combine Collegiate Wizard and Elven Generalist.

you get spells for free on level up. no paper or ink or tattoo ink required. you can say the spells magically appear on your skin or your level up made your finger able to write spells magically but only two spells. whatever you want. but one thing for sure is requiring any form of writing material or utensils betrays raw.

eidetic is dragon magazine. my dm banned dragon magazine.

uncanny forethought lets you cast any spell you know (a spell you have recorded into a spellbook at some point in your life) so wizards like me who use only out of combat spells to create minions instead of direct bfc spells, uncanny forethought is enough to get around the need for a spellbook.

[Gavinfoxx]

that is precisely why i will never play a knight in this game.

Whoosh. You utterly miss my point.

The level of training and equipment required for any of these heroic type classes requires a support economy to exist!

[newguydude1]

Whoosh. You utterly miss my point.

The level of training and equipment required for any of these heroic type classes requires a support economy to exist!

theres a difference between needing a supply chain to come into being, and needing a supply chain as life support.

im ok with a warforged despite needing a supply chain to exist. im not ok with a warforged knight that cannot function without magic shops arming him to the teeth with gear that costs more than an entire kingdom. and flopping around like a dead fish out of water if the dm doesnt give him the money, the shops, or both.