Magic item prices from XGtE

[heavyfuel]

So, in the core books, you're led to believe that magic items are invaluable relics that cannot be bought.

Then along came Xanathar and his guide to all things.

One of the things the book brought us was magic item prices, and they seem... Super cheap.

Especially uncommon items, which can often be pretty strong (Cloak of Elvenkind is strictly better than the Thief's Lv 9 Ability and it costs less than mundane armors)

What are your experiences with these pricing guidelines?

[Vegan Squirrel]

The process and prices given in Xanathar's Guide are really quite similar to what's already in the core books. DMG p. 135 gives values of magic items based on rarity, and while the prices are not identical to those in Xanathar's, they're similar (e.g., for those Uncommon items, the DMG says they're worth 101–500 gp, while Xanathar's 1d6 × 100 gp yields 100–600 gp. The rules also suggest doubling the prices if you're aiming for a low magic campaign.

From the DMG:

In a large city with an academy of magic or a major temple, buying and selling magic items might be possible, at your discretion. If your world includes a large number of adventurers engaged in retrieving ancient magic items, trade in these items might be more common. Even so, it's likely to remain similar to the market for fine art in the real world, with invitation-only auctions and a tendency to attract thieves.

I'd argue the newer rules in Xanathar's align with that spirit, as they require one to spend downtime and 110+ gp just to find a seller, claiming that "a buyer must impress potential business partners." That sure sounds like mechanics for "invitation-only auctions" to me, with a similar pricing scheme built as dice formulas to create a mechanic for the somewhat unpredictable prices.

Having said that, my players haven't gone looking to buy any magic items beyond potions, so I don't have any experiences actually using those prices to impart. As for particularly potent items, I'd recommend sticking to the upper range of prices for those items, or just ruling that those items are actually rare instead of uncommon, for instance, in your world. I think the best part of these rules are that they give you a way to come up with a price range when you really don't know what to do, but they're generic enough that you don't feel like you're beholden to a single printed price when you want to rule that a certain item costs more than, say, a suit of plate armor.

[Yakk]

Simply treat which items are for sale as limited and beyond the PC's control.

Use level appropriate treasure parcel rolls to seed the items for sale.

Sure, players will get lucky and find some underpriced items. So long as they aren't avaliable on-demand, it is little different than finding an awesome item in a treasure horde.

This also means random prices are great. After one adventure, a +1 hand axe is avaliable for 2000 gp, the next adventure a +2 greatsword for 2200 gp. Those prices are not "fair", but they don't have to be. Players who need magic armor more than gold can pay, or do without.

So long as it isn't a magic mart, where players can cherry pick the lowest price best items, mispricing doesn't matter that much.

Customize the items for sale as much as you do treasure on adventures to your party.

[Tanarii]

I'd argue the newer rules in Xanathar's align with that spirit, as they require one to spend downtime and 110+ gp just to find a seller, claiming that "a buyer must impress potential business partners." That sure sounds like mechanics for "invitation-only auctions" to me, with a similar pricing scheme built as dice formulas to create a mechanic for the somewhat unpredictable prices.

In many games, the real cost will be the downtime.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

I think you missed the part in Xanathar's on p126 detailing just how difficult it is to find a seller of a given magic item. On top of that, the item could turn out to be a fake, or get stolen before you can buy it, or the seller could turn up dead or disappear, or any number of other complications. They may be priced cheap, but you can't go pick the ones you want off a shelf in a store or order them from a catalog.

[Willie the Duck]

One of the things the book brought us was magic item prices, and they seem... Super cheap.
Especially uncommon items, which can often be pretty strong (Cloak of Elvenkind is strictly better than the Thief's Lv 9 Ability and it costs less than mundane armors)
What are your experiences with these pricing guidelines?

Super cheap seems kind of hard to gauge because I don't feel that everyone is on the same page on how much money PCs have when, but simply using heavy armor as a guide, yes, there are lots of things that XGtE says costs less than 1300 gp that are more useful than moving your armor from Splint Mail to Plate Mail. By that metric, a lot of magic items are cheap.

Magic item pricing by rarity is certainly an inexact science.

All in all, I think it is exactly what I expected -- lots of complaints about the magic item treadmill and Christmas tree ornament characters and magic-items-as-part-of-build-logic made the designers scale back how readily one could get magic items (certainly select and choosing them), but then they create the option of doing so, but in a very low-granularity system.

My personal experience is that we tend not to do much magic item purchasing, kind of enjoy the discovery/work-with-what-you-get experience that engenders, but also recognize that people who want a rigorous magic item economic system really aren't being well served.

[heavyfuel]

Super cheap seems kind of hard to gauge because I don't feel that everyone is on the same page on how much money PCs have when.

Aye. I really miss the Wealth by level guidelines of 3.5, and I say that as a DM more than as a player

[DeadMech]

Aye. I really miss the Wealth by level guidelines of 3.5, and I say that as a DM more than as a player

Same. Wealth in 5e is pants on head stupid.

Page 38 of the DMG. It's broken up into tiers rather than levels so it's already barely better than useless out of the gate. And still no one has thought "Hey maybe this should be in the players handbook as well so that players making characters above first level will have access to it without bothering their DM."

Of the three Dm's I've played with all three of them forgot all about it when we were starting campaigns at higher levels anyway.

While I was writing this post by chance I was looking through Volo's and the cost to scribe spell scrolls was a kick the teeth. Compare the starting gold characters get to the cost of scribing a scroll of a caster's highest level. Above a 3rd level spell you can't. It takes 48 weeks and a quarter of a million gold to MAKE a 9th level scroll. That's bonkers. Who the hell came up with this?

One of my Dm's gave our party 4 caps of water breathing as a quest reward once for saving a town from sahuagin and I remember how unhappy we were. Like first off you made us fight a baron, priestess and almost a half dozen regular guys at like like 3 or 4 and you gave the priestess healing word so the fight took forever and was reduced to pop up healing on both sides. And that was on the beach. We are NEVER going into the water thank you very much. More encounters like that but with half movement and disadvantage on all our attacks, no thanks. Second. I'm playing a wizard. If you just gave me a single scroll of water breathing IF we were ever going in the water again I could learn it and be able to use it as a ritual forever and I wouldn't have to worry about someone drowning me by snatching something off the top of my head.

Why do single use items cost as much as or more than a magic item that can permanently give similar effects. Potion of flying vs every other magic item that grants flight.

Why does a potion that grants you enough hp that you still won't even survive someone looking at you sternly the same cost as a magic shield? Maybe the DM wouldn't have to keep handing out potions so that we could pop up heal the paladin and fighter if they had a decent AC.

So in my experience buying magic items it's been relatively fine. Some people whine about magic marts but I spent the sahuagin fight trapped in a hold person spell and a ghost fight possessed. And if I had failed a paralyze save to a revenant it would have been a TPK so when I asked to buy a cloak of protection the DM let me. It's not as if that alone was going to make me immune to the constant save DC screw overs. But if I had to continue spending every other fight not participating I can't imagine ever playing another game of 5e ever again. At 600gp it sure didn't feel cheap. In fact the moment I bought it I ran into allot of trouble procuring enough gold to continue duplicating my back up spellbook.

Basically the only time I ever run into issues with money so far in 5e is when I'm playing a wizard or a heavy armor wearer. Scrolls and spellbooks are non-existent as loot. I always spend every copper I make duplicating my spellbook just in case my DM decides to be a jackhole and do something to my primary book. I can't imagine what I would do though if one actually pulled that trigger. I'd have to start all over again making a new backup book and I've never had enough gold on hand to finish that process from scratch. I don't imagine the party would be very fond of me insisting on staying put somewhere for the downtime it would take either. It would probably just be a sign to walk away.

Initially playing a heavy armor wearing character you also run into the full plate hurdle but generally once you get passed that it's been smooth sailing. As a cleric I'd had issues buying spell focuses and material components but at least the party is often willing to chip in for the diamonds. Since it helps them more than it helps me.

My current character is a moon druid. Not needing armor or a magic weapon to be effective and not having my entire life savings printed into books has been nice. It's generally not until later on that spells start asking for expensive focuses and components. For now I can buy some posh furniture or whatnot without breaking the bank which is what I'd prefer gold be for.

I generally want in DnD to be able to pick or create my own magic items so that they actually end up being things that I want and have use for. (Also it's nicer that way so that they don't end up clashing with whatever aesthetic I was planning for a a character as well. Just say no to lime green boots of elvenkind)

6e or 5.5 should move towards some alternative currency or more player driven seeding of loot in my opinion. Also it needs to have someone with more than 2 brain cells determine the worth of single use items.

[Willie the Duck]

Aye. I really miss the Wealth by level guidelines of 3.5, and I say that as a DM more than as a player

Fundamentally, this is a case of a battle of wills (/influence over the game developers) between those who agree with you and those who thought that having an actual, relatively concrete formula for how much treasure a party should accumulate by a certain point was to the detriment of the game. In short the later group prevailed (with a bone thrown to the former in the form of an unsatisfactory optional system). All I can say is that those of us who would have loved to have seen an optional gp=xp system got even more shafted.

Some people whine about magic marts but...

You can certainly call it whining if you want to, and I'm sure there are indeed people who did whine, but for the most part (or at least the people who would have had more influence on the developers) would have been people who calmly explained that this (magic marts and the like) isn't that for which what they signed up.

[MaxWilson]

So, in the core books, you're led to believe that magic items are invaluable relics that cannot be bought.

Then along came Xanathar and his guide to all things.

One of the things the book brought us was magic item prices, and they seem... Super cheap.

Especially uncommon items, which can often be pretty strong (Cloak of Elvenkind is strictly better than the Thief's Lv 9 Ability and it costs less than mundane armors)

What are your experiences with these pricing guidelines?

I think that magic item economies just don't make any sense in non-gamist terms: so what if your Longsword +3 Flametongue is theoretically a Legendary item? Why would an ordinary person who wasn't a 20th level Fighter or something be willing to pay 150,000 gp for it? A rich 0th level merchant with a Flametongue +3 still dies like a chump to a weretiger or a troll, so unlike real-world weaponry it's not really useful for personal defense. A rich 0th level merchant with a 9th level Cavalier bodyguard can appreciate a Longsword +3 Flametongue, but it's not actually that much better than a 9th level bodyguard with a Longsword +1, and it's definitely worse than two 9th level bodyguards and two Longswords +1. So the value of extremely rare magic items is bottlenecked by the supply of available high-level individuals available to leverage them, which at least in my games must be low in friendly territory (otherwise the PCs don't have much to do since NPCs have already done it), therefore the real-world economy should be more of a barter economy than a cash economy.

But magic stores are fun for players--so what you do? You put the gamist elements with the other gamist elements: in dungeons, specifically the Mythic Underworld type of dungeon that doesn't even pretend to make Gygaxian Naturalist sense. You may only have one or two Mythic Underworld megadungeons in a campaign, but in this magical place where the laws of reality seem suspended and magical predators and treasure seem to appear from nowhere, sometimes you will meet a hag or a giant or a dragon who offers to make a deal with you for a magic item. "This sword," says the giant, "is most puissant. It was forged in the fires of Mount Doom, and those fires were sealed within the blade itself, to ravage and burn whatever flesh the blade cleaves. If you cross my palm with gold you may have it, for fifty bags of gold (50,000 gp), else it shall never be thine." This being a Mythic Underworld, if you kill the giant/hag/dragon instead of paying fair gold for it, you will find that the blade is merely a cheap forgery made of tin, but if you pay for it it turns out to be a Flametongue (+0), and the giant goes back to its forge, perhaps to someday offer you a different item at its pleasure.

Untrustworthy creatures like hags sometimes lie and attempt to sell you cursed or half-cursed items instead of useful items. You can potentially detect their lies via normal avenues (Insight, Detect Thoughts, Zone of Truth, etc.) even though you still can't get the items without paying.

Some creatures charge a favor as well as a gold payment.

TL;DR I believe that buying and selling magic items should take place primarily in dungeons, not downtime, and there should be an element of surprise and potentially even risk to the transaction. Buying a cool magic item from a dungeon vendor should feel exciting in a similar way to finding that same item in the lair of a foul beast.

[Tanarii]

Page 38 of the DMG. It's broken up into tiers rather than levels so it's already barely better than useless out of the gate. And still no one has thought "Hey maybe this should be in the players handbook as well so that players making characters above first level will have access to it without bothering their DM."

Of the three Dm's I've played with all three of them forgot all about it when we were starting campaigns at higher levels anyway.

Definitely not. Magic items are firmly DM territory. If they want to give far less, far more, pick specific ones, roll on a table, start you start higher level with nothing more than level 1 equipment, allow them for sale at whatever price they choose, use the xtge selling rules, or disallow sales completely. Whatever it may be.

Regardless, if a DM really feels the need, XTGE has some table for magic items by tier they might find useful.

[8wGremlin]

A log time ago there was this thread

https://forums.giantitp.com/showthre...ic-Item-Prices

it produced this pdf. https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8X...BicmpmUDg/view

many people use it and think it good, may be you will too.

[heavyfuel]

Fundamentally, this is a case of a battle of wills (/influence over the game developers) between those who agree with you and those who thought that having an actual, relatively concrete formula for how much treasure a party should accumulate by a certain point was to the detriment of the game.

This is always a problem that could be solved with a table and the headline "Variant Rule: Wealth by Level Guidelines"

Same goes for skill DCs. Not everything needs to be set in stone like it was in 3e, but not everything needs to be insanely loose. There is a middle ground, and it would've taken them maybe a couple of extra pages in the DMG to make it work.

I think that magic item economies just don't make any sense in non-gamist terms: so what if your Longsword +3 Flametongue is theoretically a Legendary item? Why would an ordinary person who wasn't a 20th level Fighter or something be willing to pay 150,000 gp for it? A rich 0th level merchant with a Flametongue +3 still dies like a chump to a weretiger or a troll, so unlike real-world weaponry it's not really useful for personal defense. A rich 0th level merchant with a 9th level Cavalier bodyguard can appreciate a Longsword +3 Flametongue, but it's not actually that much better than a 9th level bodyguard with a Longsword +1, and it's definitely worse than two 9th level bodyguards and two Longswords +1. So the value of extremely rare magic items is bottlenecked by the supply of available high-level individuals available to leverage them, which at least in my games must be low in friendly territory (otherwise the PCs don't have much to do since NPCs have already done it), therefore the real-world economy should be more of a barter economy than a cash economy.

I don't think it's as impossible to work as you make it out to be. Sure, if it costs 150k gp, then I agree. But at reduced cost as well as reduced wealth by level (compared to 3.5 where adventurers had a nation's GDP worth of wealth), it can work. A merchant might not want the +3 Flametongue, but he can definitely make use of a Helm of Teleport, for instance, especially if it costs 10k instead of 150k.

This would, however, require more work than the devs are willing to do.

A log time ago there was this thread

https://forums.giantitp.com/showthre...ic-Item-Prices

it produced this pdf. https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8X...BicmpmUDg/view

many people use it and think it good, may be you will too.

Looks interesting. Thanks!

[MaxWilson]

I don't think it's as impossible to work as you make it out to be. Sure, if it costs 150k gp, then I agree. But at reduced cost as well as reduced wealth by level (compared to 3.5 where adventurers had a nation's GDP worth of wealth), it can work. A merchant might not want the +3 Flametongue, but he can definitely make use of a Helm of Teleport, for instance, especially if it costs 10k instead of 150k.

This would, however, require more work than the devs are willing to do.

I agree that WotC isn't willing to do more work than they have already done, and if they were willing, the work they've done so far attests that they would do it poorly. But even a well-balanced magic item economy (from the gamist perspective which wants powerful combat enchantments to be expensive) makes no sense as an real component of a non-murderhobo-centric market economy.

Do you really want to play in a gameworld where items are priced according to their utility for commerce and unskilled defense, where a Vorpal Holy Avenger or Plate Armor +3 sells for less than a Helm of Teleportation or a Wand of Magic Missiles? I don't. It makes sense but it isn't fun, and it also leads to hoarding by powerful organizations and other unfun behaviors. To have fun buying and selling items, move the magic item economy into an place where making sense isn't a requirement and where sane people don't go: the Mythic Underworld dungeon of your campaign, if you have one. Make the opportunity to buy powerful items something unusual and exciting that happens during the adventure, not between them.

[Yakk]

I have problems being short of gold when I spend it all on a really expensive backup spellbook that, if I ever had to use, I would have to quit the game because I couldn't afford a second backup?

Man, I think I spotted your problem.

[DeadMech]

I have problems being short of gold when I spend it all on a really expensive backup spellbook that, if I ever had to use, I would have to quit the game because I couldn't afford a second backup?

Man, I think I spotted your problem.

If a DM is going to target your spellbook and not hand out enough treasure to make that sustainable then there is no point playing a wizard in their campaign is there?

[Xetheral]

So the value of extremely rare magic items is bottlenecked by the supply of available high-level individuals available to leverage them, which at least in my games must be low in friendly territory (otherwise the PCs don't have much to do since NPCs have already done it)...

Interesting. I tend to prefer having the PCs be comparatively small fish, even at the regional level, let alone the national level. I find having higher-level NPCs around gives the PCs more to do, since the number of potential high-level intrigues increases (roughly) on the order of the square of the number of high-level characters.

With a plethora of high-level characters running around, most of whom have comparatively easy access to large amount of gold, it makes sense in-universe for combat items to get bid up, and thus to be extremely valuable. Even the low level merchant wants to buy the legendary sword if he can get a good price (and if he can afford it, anyway) because he knows the resale market is strong.

It's always interesting how opposite world-building preferences can lead to such diametrically opposite conclusions regarding which gameplay mechanics make sense. :)

[Yakk]

A power doesn't have to be a high level adventurer to support intrigue.

Queen Elizabeth was the most powerful person on the planet. She wasn't super strong, couldn't cast spells, etc. She did have a navy, an army, a government and an entire society backing her.

Within her court there where plenty of other powerful people. Their interactions had plenty of intrigue.

[MaxWilson]

Interesting. I tend to prefer having the PCs be comparatively small fish, even at the regional level, let alone the national level. I find having higher-level NPCs around gives the PCs more to do, since the number of potential high-level intrigues increases (roughly) on the order of the square of the number of high-level characters.

With a plethora of high-level characters running around, most of whom have comparatively easy access to large amount of gold, it makes sense in-universe for combat items to get bid up, and thus to be extremely valuable. Even the low level merchant wants to buy the legendary sword if he can get a good price (and if he can afford it, anyway) because he knows the resale market is strong.

It's always interesting how opposite world-building preferences can lead to such diametrically opposite conclusions regarding which gameplay mechanics make sense. :)

This is one way to do it, but I suspect I'd characterize the high-intrigue setting you describe as "friendly territory does not exist, everything is intrigue and everyone has their own agenda". When PCs break out of groundling play into Spelljamming, this is the type of universe I tend to have them discover--but the intrigues themselves don't lend themselves well to a stable magic item cash economy either. That is, if you find a Vorpal Holy Avenger in that setting, the Order of the Chalice might be happy to pay you a finder's fee of 100,000 gp for the prize (and the Long Knives might be happy to pay assassins 50,000 gp to prevent you from delivering it), but you probably can't take that 100,000 and turn it around to buy twenty Wands of Magic Missile, even if 5000 gp is what someone would pay you for a Wand if you found one. The economic exchange there is probably closer to a government paying 5% in prize money for a captured enemy warship than to a commercial sale.

It's also hard for me to run these types of settings well, given how much has to happen offscreen where players can't see it, and I am not really satisfied with how well I do it. It sounds like you are much more comfortable than I am with that and if so I wish I had your skills. : )

[The_Glen]

That's one problem with 5E is it's so Forgotten Realms based. Doesn't take into account settings where magic items are common and sold on the street link in Glantri for example.

[DarknessEternal]

A log time ago there was this thread

https://forums.giantitp.com/showthre...ic-Item-Prices

it produced this pdf. https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8X...BicmpmUDg/view

many people use it and think it good, may be you will too.

So mithril and adamantine armor are cheaper than steel armor?

[DeadMech]

So mithril and adamantine armor are cheaper than steel armor?

No you add the cost of the base item as well as the material cost.

[Satori01]

Aye. I really miss the Wealth by level guidelines of 3.5, and I say that as a DM more than as a player

I feel the opposite. While 3e gave an abundance of guidance for a DM,(which was great), that guidance often times was not optional.

If one did not follow the Wealth by Level tables in 3e the party was hampered, especially in high powered..."This Amp Goes to Eleven" style games...(Spinal Tap folks, the movie is worth a view).

If one as a DM objected to the sheer amount of coinage the 3e game assumed was minted, (an amount more akin to modern currency that does not have metal coins as the principle means to expand the money supply), then creating treasure hoards and balancing the expected wealth the game assumed was tedious and laborious.

4e pre the cycle of endless errata was worse, in my opinion....you had to have players upgrade to better materials etc...thus every 10 levels or so all character items were replaced.

The Awarding Magic Item tables of XGE, (pg 135), are concise and easy to use.

I do wish, there was more guidance for DMs for encounter balance changes based off these factors: Higher then normal stats, Wealth, and number of Magic Items.

Alas, WotC/Hasbro seems wedded to using primarily freelancers, with few full time designers....which means products like this don't get made.

[Willie the Duck]

I feel the opposite. While 3e gave an abundance of guidance for a DM,(which was great), that guidance often times was not optional.

If one did not follow the Wealth by Level tables in 3e the party was hampered, especially in high powered..."This Amp Goes to Eleven" style games...(Spinal Tap folks, the movie is worth a view).

Much like when people opine that they want 3e-style guidance on skills, my opinion on this is "I like the concept and the aim, but the implementation was pretty shaky and I think a 'good' version of it would have drifted pretty far afield of what people consider D&D."

The idea that each type of magical effect could be codified into a very very formulaic value is probably a false assumption, at least if you then include it in a formula of characters of X level will get a distribution of Y funds and thus funds should be used to outfit them with Z magical gear, and there will then be a level of balance between them seems predicated on all the other components of the game to be balanced (and balanced in a codified way). I'm not even talking about the 3e class balance, I mean things like skills. We have a formula for what a +X to a skill is worth, but then there are skills like Decipher Script or Handle Animal alongside skills like Tumble (which can eliminate opportunity attacks) or Use Magic Item (effectively obviating class requirements).

For that reason, while I do think that those wanting a return to 3e style WBL did get screwed over pretty hard, I don't actually think it worked all that well in the edition in which it was introduced.

I do wish, there was more guidance for DMs for encounter balance changes based off these factors: Higher then normal stats, Wealth, and number of Magic Items.

Alas, WotC/Hasbro seems wedded to using primarily freelancers, with few full time designers....which means products like this don't get made.

Honestly, that's my main beef with 5e. It needed more guidance (especially for new players/DMs, who in all honesty are the only ones who really need rules at all) on how to modify the game to achieve various goals.

[MaxWilson]

Honestly, that's my main beef with 5e. It needed more guidance (especially for new players/DMs, who in all honesty are the only ones who really need rules at all) on how to modify the game to achieve various goals.

I wish UA focused more on this kind of thing (experimental rule variants, plus explanations of the design intent behind them) and less on adding subclasses.

E.g. "if you find that warriors are struggling in your games, try tightening the restrictions on spellcasting. In this rule variant, you cannot spend movement on any round where you cast a spell, and neither can your mount if you are mounted. Furthermore, casting a spell while within melee reach of an enemy triggers an opportunity attack from each enemy, which occurs before your spell takes effect (and can disrupt a concentration spell before it does anything if the caster fails a Con save). A caster with Warcaster is an exception and does not trigger opportunity attacks. This replaces the third benefit of Warcaster (spellcasting on an opportunity attack)." This rule is designed to in increase the need for teamwork by making it more important to keep enemies away from spellcasters, and harder for the spellcasters to keep themselves away.

[Satori01]

I wish UA focused more on this kind of thing (experimental rule variants, plus explanations of the design intent behind them) and less on adding subclasses.

I agree with this completely. I don't use the Chase rules often, but it is nice to have this guidance when you need it.

Encouraging groups to try out new experiences and environments like zero g rules is a good thing. Zero G rules are something I could imagine saving for just in case moments, or to just inject some vim to a campaign.

[Baptor]

I agree the "prices" given in both the DMG and Xanathar's are borked.

That said, I really don't understand why there are only two schools of thought here:
1. Magic items are super rare and you can only find them in dank dungeons at the DM's whim.
2. Magic items can be bought in your local magic shop.

All of the debates I see are between these two ideologies, but more exist. This isn't black/white.

For example, in my 3.5e games back in the day, I never had magic item shops. I detested the idea you could just buy these things. However I did give my players free reign to either craft magic items themselves or commission items from an NPC. Making them yourself cost half the market price and commissioning them cost the full market price.

Practically, this isn't any different than buying it from a shop, but immersion-wise it was much better.

My problem with this in 5e is the "rules" for crafting are as bad as everything else regarding magic items. Mainly the insane crafting times. As I've said many times it's almost as if the developers wanted to put something in the game so they could "say" there was an option for it but make it so hard to use no one would ever use it.

Don't we have a saying for that around here? Grod's Law I believe?

[heavyfuel]

I agree the "prices" given in both the DMG and Xanathar's are borked.

That said, I really don't understand why there are only two schools of thought here:
1. Magic items are super rare and you can only find them in dank dungeons at the DM's whim.
2. Magic items can be bought in your local magic shop.

All of the debates I see are between these two ideologies, but more exist. This isn't black/white.

For example, in my 3.5e games back in the day, I never had magic item shops. I detested the idea you could just buy these things. However I did give my players free reign to either craft magic items themselves or commission items from an NPC. Making them yourself cost half the market price and commissioning them cost the full market price.

Practically, this isn't any different than buying it from a shop, but immersion-wise it was much better.

My problem with this in 5e is the "rules" for crafting are as bad as everything else regarding magic items. Mainly the insane crafting times. As I've said many times it's almost as if the developers wanted to put something in the game so they could "say" there was an option for it but make it so hard to use no one would ever use it.

Don't we have a saying for that around here? Grod's Law I believe?

If you can commission any item, that's a magic mart.

I think very few people have ever argued that there should a magic-Wallmart equivalent where you pick any item from a nearly endless list off a shelf and pay at the cashier.

Magic marts is simply the idea that players (or anyone, really) can have any item they want by spending money. If they have to commission and wait a couple of days, it doesn't change the basic premisse.

[Baptor]

If you can commission any item, that's a magic mart.

I think very few people have ever argued that there should a magic-Wallmart equivalent where you pick any item from a nearly endless list off a shelf and pay at the cashier.

Magic marts is simply the idea that players (or anyone, really) can have any item they want by spending money. If they have to commission and wait a couple of days, it doesn't change the basic premisse.

1. I don't think I said "any" item.

2. I also said in my post that it practically didn't change anything but that immersion-wise it was helpful because there weren't literal stores on the street selling these things - only powerful adventurers could make them.

3. "Anyone" doesn't have 150,000 gold pieces (or even 1,000 tbh). True, this would mean people like kings and great nobles could commission items...but can't they? I play in the Forgotten Realms and rich people certainly can and DO commission magic items. (or at least they did, I am playing RAW 5e right now and no one can commission or make items reasonably)

I'm not sure what your reply said that I didn't already say or admit to in my own post. /shrug

My point was that some people didn't like the effect magic item shops had on immersion and I wanted to provide an alternative. It mechanically changes nothing but immersion-wise it helped my table.

[MaxWilson]

1. I don't think I said "any" item.

2. I also said in my post that it practically didn't change anything but that immersion-wise it was helpful because there weren't literal stores on the street selling these things - only powerful adventurers could make them.

3. "Anyone" doesn't have 150,000 gold pieces (or even 1,000 tbh). True, this would mean people like kings and great nobles could commission items...but can't they? I play in the Forgotten Realms and rich people certainly can and DO commission magic items. (or at least they did, I am playing RAW 5e right now and no one can commission or make items reasonably)

FR is its own thing (and it actually predates D&D). It's a high-magic setting.