PrCs that advance Mystic Ranger spellcasting

[Curelomosaurus]

I've been toying with the idea of playing a Sword of the Arcane Order + Trap Expert + Skilled City-Dweller + Wildshape variant + Mystic Ranger jack-of-all-trades type character, but although 6+Int skill points, nerfed wildshape, full BAB, trapfinding, and psuedo-wizard casting are great, the spells top out at 5th level around ECL 10, and I can't find any PrCs that are remotely worth it (except maybe dipping Heartfire Fanner), since the base class advances so many things at once. So:

- Are there any prcs that do a decent job of advancing some combination of skills, casting, BAB, and wildshape?

- Are there any PrCs that could advance Mystic Ranger casting beyond level 5 spells? Sublime chord could sorta work, but it gives a lot up and the charisma-based casting adds a lot of MADness to a class that already needs decent Dex, Con, Int, and Wis.

EDIT: Also, would a druid dip (for an animal companion) be worth it? My understanding is that mystic ranger levels wouldn't advance it, since it was given up, but there are still tons of ranger ACFs that boost your companion (planar ranger makes it Celestial, Fangshields ranger adds 2 to your effective druid level, various racial subs give more powerful companions) and you can trade other level 1 druid abilities for useful, if situational, stuff like Spontaneous Affliction or Spiritual Connection. No room in the build.

Current build: Mystic Ranger (Trap Expert/Shooting Star variant)/9 Prestige Bard/1 Sublime Chord/1 Fochulhan Lyrist/9, for +18 BAB, great saves, ranger casting (levels 0-5), bard casting (levels 4-6), all 9 levels of wizard casting, CL 21 for spells, 6+Int skill points for 19 levels, wild shape as a Druid/9, and bardic knowledge/music as a Bard/15.

Feats so far (with flaws as needed):
1- Magical Training, plus Nymm Ascendant (and Wedded to History (throwback) if going Necropolitan or immunity to "______ Person" is needed).

3- Leadership, cuz why not? (Nymm Ascendant lets you take it early)

6- Sword of the Arcane Order for wizard-esque casting with ranger slots

[liquidformat]

So you are for the most part going to have to pick and choose what you want to progress. Taking Nature's warrior will increase caster level on two levels give you a choice of a few different abilities to boost your wild shape and increases bab, geomancer increases caster level gives you some silly abilities and does a bit to combine arcane and divine casting, Lion of Talisid is a pretty good mix of everything you are looking for and you can meet the requirements pretty easily, arcane heirophant would be a good choice if you can get trackless step somewhere, Planar Shepherd is another cool choice if you can figure out a way to meet the feat requirement.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Curelomesaurus
Are there any prcs that do a decent job of advancing some combination of skills, casting, BAB, and wildshape?

It may not cover everything you want, but the Swanmay (BoED p. 76) advances BAB, casting, moderate skills and its own specialized form of wildshape. The Swanmay's wildshape is limited to a single form, but it gives you flight, and DR 5/cold iron is usually good to have.

[Rebel7284]

If you want to advance all of the things, there is nothing wrong with taking more levels of Mystic Ranger. With that said, it does become a little lacklaster at the higher levels.

Some thoughts:
1. Fochlucan Lyrist advances most things. Typically it's a pain to enter, but you get Evasion and can cast both arcane and divine spells. Something like Hellbred(Druid in your past life for language) Mystic Ranger 9/Heartfire Fanner 1/Sublime Chord 1/Fochlucan Lyrist 9. You end up with 18 BAB, a ton of utility with Ranger/Bard/Sorcerer/Wizard lists and amazing skills for all 20 levels. Warrior Skald brings that to 19BAB but isn't as good at Heartfire Fanner as far as class features. Clearly need a feat to give yourself Perform as a class skill. (Apprentice is probably best)

2. Master of Many forms makes your wildshape good again.

[liquidformat]

It may not cover everything you want, but the Swanmay (BoED p. 76) advances BAB, casting, moderate skills and its own specialized form of wildshape. The Swanmay's wildshape is limited to a single form, but it gives you flight, and DR 5/cold iron is usually good to have.

Lion of Talisid is still probably a better choice...

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

If you want a companion, take Wild Cohort or dip Beastmaster.

You won't find many prestige classes that advance casting and are equal to the Ranger chassis, as any would be a direct upgrade in BAB and skills from taking Cleric or Druid or similar full casting classes.

Maybe dip Suel Arcanamach 2 and include Wildrunner 1 for Trackless Step, and go into Arcane Hierophant. That gets 4 base skill points/level and 3/4 BAB, while advancing arcane and divine casting plus wild shape plus animal companion plus adds familiar benefits to your animal companion. If you traded out the animal companion also dip Beastmaster, and be sure to get Natural Bond.

[Curelomosaurus]

It may not cover everything you want, but the Swanmay (BoED p. 76) advances BAB, casting, moderate skills and its own specialized form of wildshape. The Swanmay's wildshape is limited to a single form, but it gives you flight, and DR 5/cold iron is usually good to have.

It's a cool class, but it doesn't actually stack with wild shape, and given that I could wildshape into a Small animal with a fly speed and only really miss out on a bit of DR without taking any Swanmay levels... I'll pass.

Some thoughts:
1. Fochlucan Lyrist advances most things. Typically it's a pain to enter, but you get Evasion and can cast both arcane and divine spells. Something like Hellbred(Druid in your past life for language) Mystic Ranger 9/Heartfire Fanner 1/Sublime Chord 1/Fochlucan Lyrist 9. You end up with 18 BAB, a ton of utility with Ranger/Bard/Sorcerer/Wizard lists and amazing skills for all 20 levels. Warrior Skald brings that to 19BAB but isn't as good at Heartfire Fanner as far as class features. Clearly need a feat to give yourself Perform as a class skill. (Apprentice is probably best)

I've already been looking at Heartfire Fanner + Sublime Chord, but that raises the problem of adding Charisma-based casting onto a class that's already trying to be decent at combat and cast with Wisdom (for ranger spells) and Intelligence (for wizard spells)... though wisdom would be a fairly easy dump.

Let's see... Heartfire Fanner requires 10 ranks in Diplomacy (qualify with Skilled City-Dweller ACF) and 3 garbage feats... Sublime Chord basically just requires a few class skills... and Fochlucan Lyrist requires a ton of garbage skills. That's not too bad for 3 PrCs that give 4 extra spell levels.

[Nifft]

Abolisher (Lords of Madness) advances wild shape and spellcasting, but it's not full BAB. You need Wild Empathy to get in -- I think you keep that as a Mystic Wildshape Ranger, but if you do then it's no good.

Still, there's not as much point in taking a PrC when your base class is as good as Mystic Wildshape Ranger.

[GrayDeath]

Well, depending on how fixxed you are to advancing ALL of that, you could alternate Legacy Champion (for BAB and casting) and Bard (for Skills and extra stuff) into Sublime Chord, then continue sublime chord and Mytic Ranger alternatinglyx via legacy Champion.

Cheesy though, I think your best bet is either ti choose 2 of the 4 to advance, or make a Homebrew Prestige class (though ebvven then youll likely loose some stuff, as, lets be honest, ALL of that IS quite OP^^).

[Vizzerdrix]

Wildshape ranger can make decent use of Daggerspell shaper. Going to 4th will get you large sizes and only cost 1 cl. 2 good saves and med bab. You also get the nifty ability to enhance your natural attacks with enchanted daggers.

Cyran Avenger is easy to get into, has 1 good save, full bab, and some fun abilities. You loose a cl at first, but get spell progression for the other 4 levels.

[Curelomosaurus]

Well, depending on how fixxed you are to advancing ALL of that, you could alternate Legacy Champion (for BAB and casting) and Bard (for Skills and extra stuff) into Sublime Chord, then continue sublime chord and Mytic Ranger alternatinglyx via legacy Champion.

Losing all those caster levels is gonna hurt though... maybe Mystic Ranger/9 (base class) + Prestige bard/1 + Sublime Chord/1 + FL/9? You lose out on a level of spellcasting advancement and get -2 CL for evocation/necromancy, but get +2 CL for illusions, enchantments, and divinations, and only have to take one garbage feat (to get Perform as a class skill) rather than 3.

That gives 19 casting levels, 9 levels of ranger/wizard/bard spells, 6 +Int skills/level for 19 levels, +18 BAB, 11 levels of bardic music, and bardic knowledge, at the cost of really nerfing wildshape, 3 feats, and some wasted skill ranks. I'll take it.

[Nifft]

Thinking about this a bit.

Mystic Wildshape Rangers are pretty much T1 right up to level 10, after which they start to fall off. Advancing your spellcasting past level 10 won't help you much. So, what if you just got off the ride after level 10?


(human or changeling) Mystic Wildshape Ranger 10 / Chameleon 10. You'll end up with BAB +17, level 5 Ranger spells + level 6 everything spells, 2 favored enemies, a pretty good skill list, fast movement +10ft.,

Level 1 - Able Learner (plus maybe human bonus feat & flaws, if you can get away with them)
Level 3 - _____
Level 6 - Natural Spell
Level 9 - Extra Wildshape
Level 12 - Dragon Wildshape
Level 15 - _____
Level 18 - _____

You'll need a way to get Bluff and Disguise as class skills. In terms of feats, if you have room at level 1, Academy Graduate (Savage Tide AP) can get you those two + one more Cha or Int skill of your choice. Flexible Mind [chaotic] (Dr#326) can get you both at level 1 or 3. For races, being a Silverbrow Human (Dragon Magic) can get you Disguise.

10th level is a good breakpoint for Wild Shape -- you get it 4/day, and the next few levels would grant perks which don't apply to you (tiny size, plant type). Being able to turn into Small and Medium dragons is already quite HD constrained, so being cut off at 10 HD might not cost you much. Most options are still on the table.

Your Chameleon floating bonus feat is backed up with 10 genuine caster levels, so you can [Item Creation] fruitfully during your downtime.


This is probably on par with the Master of Many Forms build.

[Curelomosaurus]

Thinking about this a bit.

Mystic Wildshape Rangers are pretty much T1 right up to level 10, after which they start to fall off. Advancing your spellcasting past level 10 won't help you much. So, what if you just got off the ride after level 10?

Mystic Ranger with a few ACFs grants 0-5th level ranger and wizard spells, while sublime chord grants 4-6th level bard spells and 6th-9th level wizard spells, which should keep the build in tier 1 at high levels as well when combined with limited wildshape, 18 levels of full BAB, and 19 levels of 6+Int skill points.

EDIT: Although Chameleon is an excellent jack-of-all trades PrC. Thanks for the suggestion.

Besides Hellbred, Tibbit (can get any language as a bonus language, with no clause prohibiting secret languages), or 4 levels in Loremaster, how could one get Druidic as a language?

[Bruh_moment]

as was said before if you are okay with cheese planar Shepard is really nice
picking dual quor or the far realms for your planar bubble can give you a lot of action economy, however this will probably get a book thrown at you

[Curelomosaurus]

as was said before if you are okay with cheese planar Shepard is really nice
picking dual quor or the far realms for your planar bubble can give you a lot of action economy, however this will probably get a book thrown at you

I'm going for a powerful jack-of-all-trades, not a tier 0 stinky cheese nightmare.

[Bruh_moment]

I'm going for a powerful jack-of-all-trades, not a tier 0 stinky cheese nightmare.

first of all I'm stealing stinky cheese nightmare

second going planar shepard with something like hell, the abyss, neg. energy plane,Mt. celestia, or any of the elemental planes (also, the far realms but you'll never get to use planar bubble without getting drop-kicked by the dm) etc. you can wildshape into some powerful outsiders, undead, elementals, or abberations

[Curelomosaurus]

you'll never get to use planar bubble without getting drop-kicked by the dm

...turn into a Colossal pseudonatural whatever. You'll be too big for the DM to even lift.

EDIT: Wait a sec. A planar shepherd and their animal companion

ignore any harmful effects derived from the chosen plane's elemental or energy traits, as well as any natural environmental effects associated with the plane.

So if a planar shepherd picks a plane with gravity, do they stop being affected by gravity?

[Psyren]

If Pathfinder is on the table, Evangelist is 9/10 casting, all base class features, 6+Int skills and 3/4 BAB. In exchange you must worship a specific deity and perform Obediences for them each day, but you get boons for doing so (usually SLAs)

[Curelomosaurus]

If Pathfinder is on the table, Evangelist is 9/10 casting, all base class features, 6+Int skills and 3/4 BAB. In exchange you must worship a specific deity and perform Obediences for them each day, but you get boons for doing so (usually SLAs)

My regular DMs and I only do 3.5, 5e, and occasionally d20 modern. So no PF.

But thanks anyways!

[PoeticallyPsyco]

Not technically advancing Ranger spells for much of it, but a Shifter Mystic Ranger 7/ Divine Crusader 1/ Moonspeaker 12 makes for a fantastic build. 9th level spells, plus full Mystic Ranger casting (just about), advances Wild Shape (or gives it to you if you didn't have it already), and all the other fantastic class features of Moonspeaker (including but not limited to gate).

Moonspeaker is intended to be entered at 8th level for Rangers (and Druids, for that matter), but Mystic Ranger gets 2nd level divine spells early, meaning you can spend the levels in between on whatever you want. Divine Crusader is a fast-progression divine spellcasting class that requires BAB +7 to enter; Ranger gets you there pretty easily. Moonspeaker then advances that casting for the next 9 levels (giving you a 9th level spell at a nice ECL 16th) before switching back to Mystic Ranger spellcasting for 4th and 5th level Ranger spells and a few more spell slots, or you could go the other way around if you prefer. Either way, you're also getting class features typically considered a strict upgrade over taking straight Druid. It locks your race into Shifter, but honestly that's not at all bad for a Mystic Ranger anyway; Dreamsight gives you a bonus to Wis while shifting, or you could go for a combat subrace (e.g. Longtooth) and gish it up, and either the Extra Shifter Trait feat or Moonspeaker 9 will let you do both.

[Curelomosaurus]

Not technically advancing Ranger spells for much of it, but a Shifter Mystic Ranger 7/ Divine Crusader 1/ Moonspeaker 12 makes for a fantastic build. 9th level spells, plus full Mystic Ranger casting (just about), advances Wild Shape (or gives it to you if you didn't have it already), and all the other fantastic class features of Moonspeaker (including but not limited to gate).

The only problem is, Divine Crusader + Moonspeaker only gives up to 9th level spells from one domain, while Sublime Chord + Folhucan Lyrist gives up to 9th level spells from the whole wizard list, plus up to 5th level from the mystic ranger list and 4-6th level from the bard list.

I can't help but notice that this build still gets full sublime chord casting as long as you take a level in prestige bard/Heartfire Fanner before 10th and spend levels 11-20 on Sublime Chord/FL. This gives some wiggle room for levels 6-10. Would it be worth it to dip master of masks (all EWPs and +2 CL), swordsage (maneuvers), or cloistered cleric (devotion feats)? Nope, you need all 9 levels in mystic ranger to get evasion.

EDIT: I've been looking over the X stat to Y bonus, and I'm fairly stumped as to reducing the MADness of this build. At minimum, you need Int and Wis 15 to get full mystic ranger casting, plus Charisma 19 and decent Dex and Con. To qualify for FL's Druidic prereq, you have to be a Hellbred or a Tibbit, which means no Faerie Mysteries Initiate. Necropolitan/Silveraith + Human Heritage/Wedded to History (throwback) helps remove the need for Con, of course, but you still can't mess too much with ageing to boost mental stats, since you need Dex for Initiative, to-hit, and skills.

[Rebel7284]

Re: Druidic
- Shad from Planescape can explicitly learn Druidic. However, their flavor is pretty meh. Short-lived prey.
- Pearl of speech [MIC p. 118] doesn't make an exception for secret languages. If your DM allows magic items to qualify, it's only 600gp.
- Spellscale [RoD p. 21] mentions something about retaining any languages you knew before becoming a spellscale. It's not clear exactly how that works, but might be useful as well. I am thinking: Mystic Ranger X/Druid 1/ -> become spellscale, level drain the druid level away. Keep Druidic because of race.
- If you just don't like any of those races, you can always transform them into Dragonborn for 100GP and get very useful class features and +2 Con, -2 Dex

Re: Multiple Attribute Dependency (MAD)
- If you free up your race choices, Illumians have some nice sigils

• Aeshkrau: The illumian can use her Strength score to determine the bonus spells she gains for a high ability score, instead of the normal ability score used by her class to determine this feature. If she has more than one spellcasting class, she may use her Strength score in place of any or all of the ability scores used by those classes for this purpose.
• Uurkrau: The illumian can use her Dexterity score to determine the bonus spells she gains for a high ability score, instead of the normal ability score used by her class to determine this feature. If she has more than one spellcasting class, she may use her Dexterity score in place of any or all of the ability scores used by her classes for this purpose.

- In addition, if your race is free, you could of course go for an old or venerable Dragonwrought Kobold for +2/+3 to all mental stats.
- Academic Priest/Dynamic Priest feats can help a bit, but they don't give you higher DCs
- Geomancer would fix all your concerns, but sadly would mean giving up all of Fochlucan Lyrist.
- Pick up Craft Wondrous Item feat in order to make a belt of magnificence as soon as possible.

[Sutr]

Stalker of Kharesh does advance ranger casting. I do like two levels for favored enemy evil and nemesis evil so a really good sense as well as giving an extra 1d6 damage to evil opponents. that and three levels of scout seems worthwhile.

[Curelomosaurus]

Re: Druidic
- Shad from Planescape can explicitly learn Druidic. However, their flavor is pretty meh. Short-lived prey.
- Pearl of speech [MIC p. 118] doesn't make an exception for secret languages. If your DM allows magic items to qualify, it's only 600gp.
- Spellscale [RoD p. 21] mentions something about retaining any languages you knew before becoming a spellscale. It's not clear exactly how that works, but might be useful as well. I am thinking: Mystic Ranger X/Druid 1/ -> become spellscale, level drain the druid level away. Keep Druidic because of race.
- If you just don't like any of those races, you can always transform them into Dragonborn for 100GP and get very useful class features and +2 Con, -2 Dex

Re: Multiple Attribute Dependency (MAD)
- If you free up your race choices, Illumians have some nice sigils

• Aeshkrau: The illumian can use her Strength score to determine the bonus spells she gains for a high ability score, instead of the normal ability score used by her class to determine this feature. If she has more than one spellcasting class, she may use her Strength score in place of any or all of the ability scores used by those classes for this purpose.
• Uurkrau: The illumian can use her Dexterity score to determine the bonus spells she gains for a high ability score, instead of the normal ability score used by her class to determine this feature. If she has more than one spellcasting class, she may use her Dexterity score in place of any or all of the ability scores used by her classes for this purpose.

- In addition, if your race is free, you could of course go for an old or venerable Dragonwrought Kobold for +2/+3 to all mental stats.
- Academic Priest/Dynamic Priest feats can help a bit, but they don't give you higher DCs
- Geomancer would fix all your concerns, but sadly would mean giving up all of Fochlucan Lyrist.
- Pick up Craft Wondrous Item feat in order to make a belt of magnificence as soon as possible.

I'm gonna avoid the Pearl of Speech due to the possible loss of class features if it's lost. That means my race can basically be:

Hellbred (+2 Con/-2 Cha or +2 Cha/-2 Con)
Tibbit (+2 Dex, -2 Str)
Former Hellbred/Tibbit Spellscale (+2 Cha/-2 Con)
Dragonborn Hellbred/Tibbit

Hellbred and Spellscale have nice Charisma bonuses, but the rest of their features are lacking. Tibbit isn't that great with wildshape, but I do like tibbits...

[Rebel7284]

I'm gonna avoid the Pearl of Speech due to the possible loss of class features if it's lost.

That's a valid concern, however, I would like to point out that this item is particularly difficult to lose

When you place a pearl of speech upon your tongue (a standard action), it is absorbed into your mouth until you speak the proper command word to release it.

I mean someone else can probably pretend to speak on your behalf with a high enough UMD check? It's debatable if things like dispel magic even work since it's not a separate item, but is now absorbed into you. Also has cover if your mouth is closed. Anyway, it requires some DM ruling, but overall, it seems about as secure as most grafts.

Also it's so cheap by the level you have it, that you can have backups really easily.

It seems way easier to lose your spellbook than the pearl though and that doesn't stop everyone here saying "play a wizard" to a good half of the posted threads.

[Curelomosaurus]

Stalker of Kharesh does advance ranger casting. I do like two levels for favored enemy evil and nemesis evil so a really good sense as well as giving an extra 1d6 damage to evil opponents. that and three levels of scout seems worthwhile.

Sadly, there's not room for this, full BAB, and the PrCs that advance to 9th-level casting in the build. Mystic ranger already gets 2 favored enemies by 9th level, luckily.

[Ruethgar]

You should read over SotAO carefully. It only allows you to prepare wizard spells, not cast them. You would need Magical Training(iffy) or a Wizard level to actually be able to cast them. Without that, it is near useless unless you're feeding a Spellthief or ignoring text and going with the common house ruling on the feat.

[TotallyNotEvil]

You should read over SotAO carefully. It only allows you to prepare wizard spells, not cast them. You would need Magical Training(iffy) or a Wizard level to actually be able to cast them. Without that, it is near useless unless you're feeding a Spellthief or ignoring text and going with the common house ruling on the feat.

Yeah, and Monks aren't proficient with unarmed attacks.

[ThanatosZero]

You should read over SotAO carefully. It only allows you to prepare wizard spells, not cast them. You would need Magical Training(iffy) or a Wizard level to actually be able to cast them. Without that, it is near useless unless you're feeding a Spellthief or ignoring text and going with the common house ruling on the feat.

If that was the case, why does the RAW mention this bit?
If you also have levels in wizard, your wizard caster level is treated as the sum of your wizard, paladin, and ranger class levels.

If SotAO required levels in wizard and or magical training, it would have been in the requirements.
A spell you have prepared, is a spell you can cast.

Also from the glossary from the PHB

spell preparation: Part of the spellcasting process for wizards, clerics, paladins, rangers, and druids. Preparing a spell requires careful reading from a spellbook (for wizards) or devout prayers or meditation (for divine spellcasters). The character actually casts the first and lengthiest part of the spell during the preparation phase, leaving only the very end for completion at another time. To use a prepared spell, the character finishes the casting with the appropriate spell components a few special words, some complex gestures, a specific item, or a combination of the three. A prepared spell is used up once cast and cannot be cast again until the spellcaster prepares it again. Sorcerers and bards need not prepare their spells.

spell slot: The “space” in a spellcaster’s mind dedicated to holding a spell of a particular spell level. A spellcaster has enough spell slots to accommodate an entire day’s allotment of spells. Spellcasters who must prepare their spells in advance generally fill their spell slots during the preparation period, though a few slots can be left open for spells prepared later in the day. A spellcaster can always opt to fill a higher-level spell slot with a lower-level spell, if desired.

[Ruethgar]

The only thing that by default allows you to fully cast spells is the Spell class feature with some feat and other exceptions that are explicit like Magical Training. The Ranger Spells class feature only includes Ranger spells. Spell preparation may allow you to cast most of the spell, but to fully cast a spell requires that last bit which neither SotAO or Ranger allow you to do. The feat was probably intended to be similar to other theurgic feats that make a couple classes more compatible for multiclassing, which it does well.

SotAO doesn't require levels in wizard, only requires them to get significant use out of the feat. AFB but technically I think you could still use the spells for crafting, mindset spells, and to fuel Reserve feats.