Evil Join Forces With Evil. Is That Even Possible?

[Bartmanhomer]

Is it possible that an evil character join forces with another evil character? For example, the Cleric of Lolth and Cleric of Erthyuul join forces to work together.

[Chauncymancer]

In published materials evil factions frequently team up in the way you're proposing, but it's normally a fragile, unstable relationship that the players can exploit.

[hamishspence]

Yes.

Villain Team Up.

[Alcore]

Your example is mortal evil teaming up with mortal evil. They might be having a "good" day and, as long as things don't go south, can continue to have them indefinitely. It doesn't even have to be the plot that goes south; domestic troubles/stresses might bleed over into work.

[Mr.Sandman]

As long as they are not 'slaughter every other living being' evil, sure why not as long as their goals align.

[Bartmanhomer]

Well, the Suicide Squad is one and the only evil team to work together successfully. And that the only one I can think of.

[OldTrees1]

Yes.

It is trivial to imagine evil working with evil. Or good with evil. Or order with chaos. Or chaos with chaos. Or order with order. Or order with good. Or chaos with evil. Or ... (continues the complete list).

Just remember, people are people. When people have a common objective, even when their end goals differ, those people can join forces to achieve their common objective. People without a common objective, but without conflicting goals, can forge alliances where helping each other in order to be helped in return is the common objective.

In OOTS Elan's father is part of a group of evil individuals that joined forces.

[Mastikator]

Mafias, violent gangs, tyrannical governments, evil corporations, slave drivers, pirates, etc all rely on evil people teaming up with other evil people to increase their success rate with exploiting *outsiders for their own gain.

*outsider is anyone who's not in the in-group of evil people.

[dancrilis]

As long as they are not 'slaughter every other living being' evil, sure why not as long as their goals align.

The undead are people too - they can work together with your goal fine.

Yes.

It is trivial to imagine evil working with evil. Or good with evil. Or order with chaos. Or chaos with chaos. Or order with order. Or order with good. Or chaos with evil. Or ... (continues the complete list).

So good working with good is pretty far down the list (it is probably because both groups think they think they are right and that the other group should agree with them).

[GrayDeath]

You could also ask "Can Nestle and Amazon work together"? ^^

So obviously, yes. Why wouldnt they? They jsut need to find something they both want. Now if they will be working together AFTER they achieved their goals.....well....


Also, please do something about your grammar and Your All Capitalized Questions.
Really, its not as if its that much effort. Or as if you hadnt been told by various people at various times....sigh...

[KillianHawkeye]

Well, the Suicide Squad is one and the only evil team to work together successfully. And that the only one I can think of.

The Suicide Squad isn't a very good example, since they basically have no choice to work together or be killed.

Still, there are thousands of examples of villains working together. It often happens when there is a hero who is a common foe, such as Bat-Man or Spider-Man or The Flash. It's especially common for a group of villains to form to counter a team up of heroes, like the Justice League versus the Legion of Doom.

An example of a temporary alliance between bad guys are Quicksilver and the Scarlet Witch in Avengers: Age of Ultron, who team up with Ultron because they share the goal of destroying Iron Man and the other Avengers. But when the twins discover Ultron is planning to betray them, they fight to stop him and ultimately switch sides and become Avengers themselves, realizing the error of their ways.

Or take the character of Cipher in The Matrix. He's willing to betray Morpheus and the others to Agent Smith because he hates living in the "real world". Their relationship works because they each have something the other wants: Cipher can deliver Morpheus to Smith (which allows him to attack the humans in Zion), and in return Smith can take Cipher back into the Matrix and make him forget his terrible life.

Of course, lots of times villains won't team up because their goals are not the same. When the Daleks and the Cybermen both crossed the void between realities to invade London at the end of the second season of the revived Doctor Who series, the Cybermen suggest an alliance with the Daleks. With their combined technologies, they would be unstoppable. However, the Daleks want to kill EVERYONE who isn't a Dalek, so they refuse the offer (and shoot the messengers).

So it really depends.

[Bartmanhomer]

You could also ask "Can Nestle and Amazon work together"? ^^

So obviously, yes. Why wouldnt they? They jsut need to find something they both want. Now if they will be working together AFTER they achieved their goals.....well....


Also, please do something about your grammar and Your All Capitalized Questions.
Really, its not as if its that much effort. Or as if you hadnt been told by various people at various times....sigh...

Sorry about that. Grammarly is on the fritz again.

[mucat]

Why would it not be possible? In [big terrible war], didn't [evil genocidal political movement] cooperate with [different evil genocidal political movement]?

I mean, if (gods forfend) they had actually won, they probably would have eventually turned on each other, but for the duration of the war they were a huge combined threat.

[King of Nowhere]

Well, the Suicide Squad is one and the only evil team to work together successfully. And that the only one I can think of.

that's the clichè of villains backstabbing each other. but this needs not be the case. in fact, this will not be the case if the villains are sane and smart.
see also xykon and redcloak; they have been teaming up for 30 years, despite conflicting goals.

[Alcore]

Also, please do something about your grammar and Your All Capitalized Questions.
Really, its not as if its that much effort. Or as if you hadnt been told by various people at various times....sigh...

Actually

For a title it needs to be capitalized (I assume that is the problem as there are no other areas with this problem). "With" and "That" are the only ones that don't need it.

Its...
"The Lord of the Rings" not "The lord of the rings"


A title is typically nouned.

[Alcore]

On that point;

The title is wordy. In fact the title and the first sentence don't both need to exist...

[Quertus]

Yes. In fact, it's called <insert your least favorite political party here>.

"Evil", throughout history, has rarely been a declaration limited to just one individual; thus, most of humanity that recognize "evil" must inherently agree that of course all those evil beings in that evil entity most certainly are able to work together to be that evil organization.

Just look at Daleks as an evil group.

[Cluedrew]

I'm going to weight in with yes. For it to be impossible the villains would have to be actively be evil towards everyone else and that is just not sustainable. Even in the most extreme example in this thread, Dr. Who's Daleks, that is an evil group with... I don't know how many members actually. But even though they want to EXTERMINATE everyone outside their group they aren't also trying to exterminate each other at the same time.

[Kol Korran]

Well, the Suicide Squad is one and the only evil team to work together successfully. And that the only one I can think of.

Ahem...
- Xykon & Red Cloak (& Tsukiko)
- Tarquin's team
- Nale's various groups (Including that with Tarquin)
- Hel & the frost giants' deity (forgot his name)

It is in fact quite common. Many "evil" groups are composed of people who joined forces due to mutual benefit, even if other beliefs/ values/ agendas don't mash well together.

It's part of what makes them so interesting... (See the first duo I mentioned).

[OttoVonBigby]

One critical weakness of evil is its selfishness, which eventually erodes the ability of multiple evil entities (even those united under a single banner) to cooperate. Tribalistic thinking is readily shifted from one out-group to another, and evil members are even more susceptible to opportunistic shifts in allegiance that their leaders/influencers initiate. Good collaborates much better, in part because of a tradition of honesty but maybe more significantly because of their willingness to be giving, to not prioritize themselves.

Which is why the smartest evil groups will (A) figure out ways to counter their members' inherent treacherousness, e.g. the mafia code of omerta and (B) figure out ways to undermine the unity of their opponent good groups, instilling whatever treachery and internal suspicions they can.

[Vahnavoi]

There are three different Evil alignments. One of them, Lawful Evil, is specifically concerned with functioning as a group: the Law - Chaos-axis is about groups versus individuals. Lawful Evil maintains that their group deserves to rule over and exploit other, weaker groups, and nothing's more natural than Lawful Evil beings of the same group ganging up on others.

Neutral and Chaotic Evil are a bit different. Neutral Evil is primarily interested in fulfilling its own desire for suffering of others. Where co-operating with others works towards that end, they may join forces for a while. But they won't put up with extremes of either collectivism (Law) or individualism (Chaos) if those get in their way.

Chaotic Evil is straight might-makes-right on the individual level. They don't "join forces" - they use you, like a tool, for their own benefit, and violently resists any attempts by you to do the same to them.

To make this more concrete: there are three orcs, each of different Evil alignment. The Lawful Evil orc sees orcs as superior to humans, and is willing to team up with fellow orcs to raid a human settlement. The Neutral Evil orc has no loyalty towards the LE orc, but they want to see humans die in a fire, so they agree to work with the LE orc. The Chaotic Evil orc is only interested in being the biggest, baddest orc around; if he deems the humans to be a softer target than the other orcs, he may appear to work with the other two orcs, but might as well kill and loot the other two orcs if going after the humans seems like too much trouble.

[Bartmanhomer]

Ahem...
- Xykon & Red Cloak (& Tsukiko)
- Tarquin's team
- Nale's various groups (Including that with Tarquin)
- Hel & the frost giants' deity (forgot his name)

It is in fact quite common. Many "evil" groups are composed of people who joined forces due to mutual benefit, even if other beliefs/ values/ agendas don't mash well together.

It's part of what makes them so interesting... (See the first duo I mentioned).

Well excuse me if I was living under a rock but I never even heard of these characters before. (Well except Hel)

[OldTrees1]

Well excuse me if I was living under a rock but I never even heard of these characters before. (Well except Hel)

Oh, you are in for a treat. The site that hosts this forum is also home to a wonderful webcomic. You have over 1000 pages of quality reading.

[False God]

Sure. Bad-guys often has team-ups when their goals align or their enemies are the same.

[Willie the Duck]

Well excuse me if I was living under a rock but I never even heard of these characters before. (Well except Hel)

Bartmanhomer, you specifically declared that this one thing you were aware of was the only thing the fit a category, not knowing about these other things is specifically a reason to find fault in your declaration.

For reference:

Well, the Suicide Squad is one and the only evil team to work together successfully. And that the only one I can think of.

Actually

For a title it needs to be capitalized (I assume that is the problem as there are no other areas with this problem). "With" and "That" are the only ones that don't need it.

Its...
"The Lord of the Rings" not "The lord of the rings"


A title is typically nouned.

My google fu is failing right now (and my copy of Strunk and White is from the 80s), but I am not finding a writing guide which suggests that forum thread Titles do or do not fall into the category of things to which these rules apply. Do you have a reference on that?

[Bartmanhomer]

Bartmanhomer, you specifically declared that this one thing you were aware of was the only thing the fit a category, not knowing about these other things is specifically a reason to find fault in your declaration.

For reference:




My google-fu is failing right now (and my copy of Strunk and White is from the 80s), but I am not finding a writing guide which suggests that forum thread Titles do or do not fall into the category of things to which these rules apply. Do you have a reference for that?

Well, I don't know everything about pop culture. There are some characters that I never even heard of.

[Starlit Dragon]

Assuming this is not a joke, how did you find this forum without finding the webcomic either?

[Bartmanhomer]

Assuming this is not a joke, how did you find this forum without finding the webcomic either?

Someone at another forum told me about this forum. I've been around since December of 2015.

[Alcore]

My google fu is failing right now (and my copy of Strunk and White is from the 80s), but I am not finding a writing guide which suggests that forum thread Titles do or do not fall into the category of things to which these rules apply. Do you have a reference on that?

Title; (via google)
Noun 1 = the name of a book, composition, or other artistic work.
(Or as my teacher, long ago, said; of a person place or thing)

Noun 2 = a name that describes someone's position or job.

Granted; they don't quite qualify

Verb 1; give a name to (a book, composition, or other work).

This qualifies in that it implies that "other works" are given names.

-----

A forum thread is a thing. It's name is the title of the tread. I do not know guide you seek but to me it is an elementary thing to know and do. Which is not to say that people who do not are uneducated but that they simply forgot. I know i would struggle now to take a sentence apart like i was taught but i (and likely all of you) was taught to do this.

Much like algebra

[Alcore]

Assuming this is not a joke, how did you find this forum without finding the webcomic either?

Fun fact;


From my mobile device it is almost impossible to move from the forum to the comic without leaving the site entirely. Without knowing the device in front of him we have no way of knowing what he sees. Granted the easiest way is the... reaction threads... do they have a link in them? I don't remember...