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  1. - Top - End - #61
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    Lizardfolk

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    Default Re: I cheat at D&D and it's a better experience

    I think, if bad rolls are a problem and ruining your experience, play a halfling with the lucky feat. Boom. No bad rolls. No need to cheat!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Waterdeep Merch View Post
    Use your smite bite to fight the plight right. Fill the site with light and give fright to wights as a knight of the night, teeth white; mission forthright, evil in flight. Despite the blight within, you perform the rite, ignore any contrite slight, fangs alight, soul bright.

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  2. - Top - End - #62
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    Default Re: I cheat at D&D and it's a better experience

    Quote Originally Posted by Saintheart View Post
    You are oversensitive to loss aversion.
    I know I am. I hate my own incompetence more than almost any other petty annoyance in the world. I refuse to play most video games because the constant steam of failure only makes me angry and miserable and makes me then make poor choices in life around me. It’s not worth it, especially since a victory after that much defeat feels hollow and worthless, and I’m still less happy than I was before I started playing the cursed game.

    Quote Originally Posted by Saintheart View Post
    Suggested cure both for yourself and your fellow players:

    Join a losing sports team for a season.
    I confess that I have no idea how this would help with the issue, since I know from experience that losing at sports repeatedly only convinced me to swear them off entirely. I hate sports because they combine my hatred of losing with my hatred of exercise and how miserable I feel after engaging in it. (I exercise 3-4 times a week quite deliberately for health reasons and I have never once felt the so-called endorphin rush that is supposed to come from it. All I feel is relief it’s done and maybe guilt that I don’t push just a little harder despite being very glad I finished it and viewing the notion of more exercise with - and I mildly exaggerate here - sick dread.)

    I don’t even like watching sports. They bore me, at best.

    Quote Originally Posted by Saintheart View Post
    Alternatively, learn to build a mechanically powerful character, one that's not heavily constrained by the roll of dice for the outcome of a game.
    This is generally my solution. I build the best characters I can to succeed at what I view as valuable for my character to be good at to fit my vision of them.

  3. - Top - End - #63
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    GreenSorcererElf

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    Default Re: I cheat at D&D and it's a better experience

    Yeah, I'm extremely competitive and it can be fairly hard to deal with. Mostly I've been sorta I guess adopting alternate win conditions? Like, if I fail miserably I try to get a crack out of the table with some silly comment, and I consider that a win in it's own right I guess. Although I still have a really hard time on boring game states, like when everyone really doesn't have much reason to particularly try to do anything cool in an encounter as to not waste resources, and the enemy just keeps tanking hit after hit leading to a boring endurance match.

  4. - Top - End - #64
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    WolfInSheepsClothing

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    Default Re: I cheat at D&D and it's a better experience

    Quote Originally Posted by Segev View Post
    I know I am. I hate my own incompetence more than almost any other petty annoyance in the world. I refuse to play most video games because the constant steam of failure only makes me angry and miserable and makes me then make poor choices in life around me. It’s not worth it, especially since a victory after that much defeat feels hollow and worthless, and I’m still less happy than I was before I started playing the cursed game.
    are you aware that everything in life is laced with failure? the media only shows the success, but to reach success you have to try and improve many times. for every feat of skill, the champion has tried it dozens of times before getting it right, and hundreds before getting it right consistently. for every new scientific or technologic breakthrough, there are dozens of failed attempts before they figured out how to do it properly.
    failing is just a necessary part of the learning process. the only people who never failed are the ones who never tried to accomplish anything.
    perhaps it could help you to look at defeat this way?
    In memory of Evisceratus: he dreamed of a better world, but he lacked the class levels to make the dream come true.

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  5. - Top - End - #65
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    PaladinGuy

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    Default Re: I cheat at D&D and it's a better experience

    Quote Originally Posted by Saintheart View Post

    You are oversensitive to loss aversion.
    I have to thank you for putting into simple terms the type of player (and person more generally) i absolutely despise. Trying to "win at DND" is just a symptom of someone being "oversensitive to loss aversion.". I'm gonna remember that for future reference.

    Finding ways to encourage players to be OK with failing without it being me dropping the rocks is one of the most important things a game can do. To me, making the players fail is boring. Having them choose to fail to further the shared narrative is everything to me.
    Last edited by NorthernPhoenix; 2020-08-09 at 10:43 AM.

  6. - Top - End - #66
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    SamuraiGirl

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    Default Re: I cheat at D&D and it's a better experience

    Y'know, it's telling that the OP posted once and apparently never came back...

  7. - Top - End - #67
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    DrowGuy

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    Default Re: I cheat at D&D and it's a better experience

    Quote Originally Posted by Cygnia View Post
    Y'know, it's telling that the OP posted once and apparently never came back...
    Yes. I notice that as well.
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  8. - Top - End - #68
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    Segev's Avatar

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    Default Re: I cheat at D&D and it's a better experience

    Quote Originally Posted by King of Nowhere View Post
    are you aware that everything in life is laced with failure? the media only shows the success, but to reach success you have to try and improve many times. for every feat of skill, the champion has tried it dozens of times before getting it right, and hundreds before getting it right consistently. for every new scientific or technologic breakthrough, there are dozens of failed attempts before they figured out how to do it properly.
    failing is just a necessary part of the learning process. the only people who never failed are the ones who never tried to accomplish anything.
    perhaps it could help you to look at defeat this way?
    Not really. Mainly because I tend to have an extremely slow learning curve and rarely find defeat instructive. (When I do, it’s less frustrating.) Unfortunately, losing 90% of the time just dispirits me. Which is why even eventual victories just feel like a lot of wasted time with no vindication. Because what good, in the end? Is a pointless victory in a game when I could have done something actually enjoyable with the time? I generally only push through such things out of sheer angry stubbornness, which is why I’m still just angry and tired when I finally succeed. So it’s just not worth it.

  9. - Top - End - #69
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    Default Re: I cheat at D&D and it's a better experience

    Quote Originally Posted by Cygnia View Post
    Y'know, it's telling that the OP posted once and apparently never came back...
    Twice actually. Point still stands.


    Anyway, my actual advice to everybody who wants to cheat at D&D is to play a different game. Something lighter either designed as a more freeform storytelling experience or to encourage the view of failure as a chance to try again (or alternatively play with a GM who'll fudge to stop you from failing). There's nothing objectively wrong with a no-failure game, all the problems come from the tendency to try to force this via cheating instead of openly discussing it with the group.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zelphas View Post
    So here I am, trapped in my laboratory, trying to create a Mechabeast that's powerful enough to take down the howling horde outside my door, but also won't join them once it realizes what I've done...twentieth time's the charm, right?
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Raziere View Post
    How about a Jovian Uplift stuck in a Case morph? it makes so little sense.

  10. - Top - End - #70
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    SwashbucklerGuy

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    Default Re: I cheat at D&D and it's a better experience

    I guess I’ll be the first one to not completely disagree with the OP. I don’t cheat, but I can certainly understand it. I’m an adult in my 30s who rarely has time to play D&D. Our group plays so infrequently that someone is always forgetting some rule or another. As a result, combat is even slower than D&D combat usually is. There’s nothing more frustrating than finally getting my turn only to miss, wait X minutes for my next turn, and then miss again.

    To fix this, I’ve dabbled in no-roll builds, elven accuracy abuse, etc. When DMing, I never use spells that completely remove a player from action (think sleep, hold person,etc.). It’s akin to saying “hey man, I know you’ve waited X weeks/months, but I’m going to have to ask you to sit back and watch us play for the next 10-30 minutes.

    The real problem I’m actually trying to solve as a player and a DM is I think D&D is too swingy, combat is to slow, and it doesn’t match the type of fantasy I’m interested in, which is that of mostly competent hero’s. Unfortunately, D&D’s combined popularity with my lack of free time to play keeps me stuck with D&D. I’d love to try other systems that better suits my needs.

  11. - Top - End - #71
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    Default Re: I cheat at D&D and it's a better experience

    Quote Originally Posted by Malkavia View Post
    I guess I’ll be the first one to not completely disagree with the OP. I don’t cheat, but I can certainly understand it. I’m an adult in my 30s who rarely has time to play D&D. Our group plays so infrequently that someone is always forgetting some rule or another. As a result, combat is even slower than D&D combat usually is. There’s nothing more frustrating than finally getting my turn only to miss, wait X minutes for my next turn, and then miss again.
    To be fair, there's a lot against hiding it instead of being against the actual techniques. If everything was on the level then a lot of us wouldn't have a problem.

    Honestly a lot of people would probably be happier with The Fantasy Trip than D&D. It's a much simpler system, designed to be less swingy (beginning characters will probably have a 10 or 11 in DX, which means they hit over half the time with 3d6 roll under), and magic isn't as certain to succeed (it's a DX roll just like swinging a weapon), and it's facing, flanking, and grappling rules make melee combat a lot more fun to me than in D&D. But it's also lower power than D&D, due to it's attempts at realism, and so combat sans armour can be deadly.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zelphas View Post
    So here I am, trapped in my laboratory, trying to create a Mechabeast that's powerful enough to take down the howling horde outside my door, but also won't join them once it realizes what I've done...twentieth time's the charm, right?
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Raziere View Post
    How about a Jovian Uplift stuck in a Case morph? it makes so little sense.

  12. - Top - End - #72
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    Flumph

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    Default Re: I cheat at D&D and it's a better experience

    I'm not pro-cheating, but some of these comments are getting into "An expert at games is an expert at life!" territory.

    Like, first off, rolling well is not a skill (unless you're cheating ). So at the point where you're actually rolling a saving throw, there's no "player skill" involved either way. Failure at checks can lead to opportunities for player skill and outside-the-box thinking, but so can success at checks.

    Secondly, trying a module (or level) many times until you succeed involves some dedication, but so does watching a movie repeatedly until you memorize all the lines. Nothing wrong with doing so, but it isn't like a rite of passage into maturity.

    So no, don't cheat, mainly because the other players would likely feel betrayed if you did. But it isn't like you're missing out on the true meaning of life that can only be discovered by playing old-school games on hard mode.
    Last edited by icefractal; 2020-08-10 at 07:04 PM.

  13. - Top - End - #73
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    OldWizardGuy

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    Default Re: I cheat at D&D and it's a better experience

    Play something besides D&D.

    As an example, in Fate, you have Fate Points. Usually spending a Fate Point or two is enough to turn most failures into victories. This means that in pretty much all cases, you choose to fail. Not in the "I want to fail here" way, but in the "well, I could still succeed here, but is it worth my Fate Points?" way.

    Similarly, losing conflicts (combats) is most often a choice, and is sweetened by throwing more Fate Points your way.
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  14. - Top - End - #74
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    DrowGuy

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    Default Re: I cheat at D&D and it's a better experience

    I'm pretty sure everyone agrees that cheating isn't ok. Seriously like when has cheating ever been acceptable in games?
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    Default Re: I cheat at D&D and it's a better experience

    Quote Originally Posted by Bartmanhomer View Post
    I'm pretty sure everyone agrees that cheating isn't ok. Seriously like when has cheating ever been acceptable in games?
    In Paranoia. You're told not to read the rules (past a certain point), but everyone knows everyone will, but it's fine as long as you don't let on that you know the rules, especially not when the GM changes them.
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  16. - Top - End - #76
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    DrowGuy

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    Default Re: I cheat at D&D and it's a better experience

    Quote Originally Posted by DataNinja View Post
    In Paranoia. You're told not to read the rules (past a certain point), but everyone knows everyone will, but it's fine as long as you don't let on that you know the rules, especially not when the GM changes them.
    Ok. I guess that one exception.
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  17. - Top - End - #77
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    OldWizardGuy

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    Default Re: I cheat at D&D and it's a better experience

    Also Munchkin.

    But both of those games are fairly explicitly mocking games as a form of parody.
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  18. - Top - End - #78
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: I cheat at D&D and it's a better experience

    And you will still find people being both suprised and angry if they find other people cheating at Munchkin.

    Sometimes I'm just lost for words.

  19. - Top - End - #79
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    Default Re: I cheat at D&D and it's a better experience

    Quote Originally Posted by Zombimode View Post
    And you will still find people being both suprised and angry if they find other people cheating at Munchkin.

    Sometimes I'm just lost for words.
    I mostly get angry when they’re bad sports about it. Blatant cheating and refusing to admit it when caught is obnoxious, at best. I know players like that, though. They usually plague convention games of Munchkin.

  20. - Top - End - #80
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    Flumph

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    Default Re: I cheat at D&D and it's a better experience

    The thing about cheating in Munchkin (and Illuminati, which similarly says you can cheat if you don't get caught, IIRC) is that allowing it slows the game down and requires more effort from the other players.

    For example, Munchkin without cheating:
    "The monster is level 15, my total with bonuses is 27, and the bad stuff is losing a level. Anyone want to interfere?"
    *other players quickly decide it isn't worth spending 12 points of modifiers for this*
    "Ok, defeated." *takes three treasures as indicated without anyone closely watching him*

    Munchkin with cheating:
    "The monster is level 15, my total with bonuses is 27, and the bad stuff is losing a level. Anyone want to interfere?"
    (other player) "Maybe! First I need to calculate your total myself to confirm, and read the monster card myself." *reads the monster card, notices that it's 'die' rather than 'lose a level', but doesn't say anything because he wouldn't benefit from the former player dying*
    (third player) "I'd better confirm it myself too ... aha! It actually kills you, so I am interfering!"
    *but the first player wins anyway, he had some modifiers too*
    "Ok, defeated." *other players all watch to make sure he draws the right number of cards*

    This is particularly annoying in Illuminati because collecting income is tediously slow if you can't trust people to prepare it correctly in advance.

    For that reason, I typically house-rule those games to "no cheating".
    Last edited by icefractal; 2020-08-11 at 05:41 PM.

  21. - Top - End - #81
    Orc in the Playground
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    Default Re: I cheat at D&D and it's a better experience

    In the group I occasionally DM we use luck counters. Each time player is on time on game night she gets one luck counter. This can be used to for a reroll.

  22. - Top - End - #82
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    Anonymouswizard's Avatar

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    Default Re: I cheat at D&D and it's a better experience

    Quote Originally Posted by Mordante View Post
    In the group I occasionally DM we use luck counters. Each time player is on time on game night she gets one luck counter. This can be used to for a reroll.
    Having played in many games with metagame currency, it's a very nice thing. I tend to throw reroll counters into any game, players get two or three at the start, you get one whenever a scene goes poorly, and anybody who provides for the game* gets an extra. It sucks to fail an important roll or not provide to a combat due to a string of bad luck, and keeping one on you might help a character who's dying.

    This doesn't count if a game has a dedicated Edge/Karma/Fate/Bennies system, but you'll still get an extra token for bringing munchies.

    * This is mainly to encourage bringing drinks or snacks, but provided minis count if you've customised or painted them.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zelphas View Post
    So here I am, trapped in my laboratory, trying to create a Mechabeast that's powerful enough to take down the howling horde outside my door, but also won't join them once it realizes what I've done...twentieth time's the charm, right?
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Raziere View Post
    How about a Jovian Uplift stuck in a Case morph? it makes so little sense.

  23. - Top - End - #83
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    Default Re: I cheat at D&D and it's a better experience

    "I cheat at D&D and it's a better experience (for me)."


    IMHO, if you have to cheat to have fun playing D&D, then maybe RPGs are not the game for you. Stop by your local used bookstore and see if you can find a stack of the old "Choose Your Own Adventure" books. You'll have a much better time. It's really hard to "lose" at those.

    Just because nobody else in your group has said anything yet, doesn't mean they haven't noticed, and are going to continue to remain silent. Let me explain. No, there's not enough time, let me sum up.

    A few years back, I was in a gaming group with a guy we'll call Bob. Bob hated to lose.

    When we played board games and he started falling behind, he would get surly and start making random decisions that would lead to putting himself further behind, until he would rage-quit the game. It got to the point where there were only a handful of board games that he would be willing to play...the ones that were fairly easy for him to figure out the mechanics. And even then he would hem and haw during his turn until one or more of the better players would end up helping him just to move the game along. He even went full Karen during one game, throwing his drink across the room and storming out while shouting at max volume. I should note that board game nights were held in a public venue. Yeah.

    When we played RPGs, he would fudge rolls. He would not track his spells. He would use skills for things that the skills didn't cover, or use skills to "detect" what someone was doing behind his character, during combat, while they were concealed. He would throw a tantrum if one of his (to him) meticulously planned schemes didn't work the way he thought they should (usually due to some glaring hole that everyone but him noticed).

    Eventually, we tried to talk with him about this. His response was "I hate to lose." So, one day, after putting up with Bob for a few months longer, we decided as a group (sans Bob) to reschedule our normal game day. We told Bob that we were going to take a break from gaming for a few weeks, as a couple of our players had real-life things that needed to be taken care of. And then we went right on gaming. Without Bob.

    I still hear about Bob at the local game store from time to time. He joins a game with a random group of strangers and is removed (or quits noisily) rather quickly for cheating. I don't think Bob has managed to stay in a gaming group for more than a month at a time.

    So herein lies the deal. Just because you don't think the others in your group have noticed your cheating, doesn't mean they haven't. I'm fairly certain that they have and eventually will call you out on it. TTRPGs are supposed to be about having fun as a group, not Abendago lets a few other people tag along on his Mary Sue ego-stroking sessions.
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    I think, therefore I get really, really annoyed at people who won't.

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  24. - Top - End - #84
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    OldWizardGuy

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    Default Re: I cheat at D&D and it's a better experience

    Quote Originally Posted by Mutazoia View Post
    "I cheat at D&D and it's a better experience (for me)."


    IMHO, if you have to cheat to have fun playing D&D, then maybe RPGs are not the game for you.
    D&D for sure. RPGs.... maybe. But a game with a fairly wide use of some kind of reroll/etc. token, and one where some of the "worst" direct consequences are normally off the table, may work well.
    "Gosh 2D8HP, you are so very correct (and also good looking)"

  25. - Top - End - #85
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    Lacco's Avatar

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    Default Re: I cheat at D&D and it's a better experience

    Quote Originally Posted by Mutazoia View Post
    So herein lies the deal. Just because you don't think the others in your group have noticed your cheating, doesn't mean they haven't. I'm fairly certain that they have and eventually will call you out on it.
    Also, if they are your friends - they maybe noticed. And hate it. But stay silent for the sake of your friendship.

    Silence will not last forever. Neither will the friendship in this case.




    On rerolls/metagame currency:
    I usually give ones to those who had the most unlucky & most lucky roll in the game. I hand out quite few for good roleplaying, ideas - anything I wish to support.

    And I am willing to go into "reroll debt" if a player has none. But it will cost him something - always.
    Last edited by Lacco; 2020-08-14 at 05:36 AM.
    Call me Laco or Ladislav (if you need to be formal). Avatar comes from the talented linklele.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kol Korran View Post
    Instead of having an adventure, from which a cool unexpected story may rise, you had a story, with an adventure built and designed to enable the story, but also ensure (or close to ensure) it happens.

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