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2020-07-11, 10:00 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2006
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- Watching the world go by
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Re: OOTS #1206 - The Discussion Thread
I imagine that if you want to get in to a god's afterlife you need to meet their standards, rather than the standards of the plane as a whole. So if valhalla was halfway up mount celestia, then getting in would be a matter of having Thor's celestials do your review, not the ones who reviewed Roy.
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2020-07-11, 10:05 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2018
Re: OOTS #1206 - The Discussion Thread
So... what do people put as the probability of Redcloak getting murdered by Xykon, and then subsequently resurrected by Durkon?
Would be a really interesting moment from Redcloaks perspective of him deciding to accept the resurrection.Last edited by nineGardens; 2020-07-11 at 10:08 PM.
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2020-07-11, 10:07 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2018
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2020-07-11, 10:14 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2019
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- Magrathea
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Re: OOTS #1206 - The Discussion Thread
There's a flaw there in that Xykon is more than likely to kill Redcloak and then destroy the body or reanimate it as undead. And if Durkon is close enough to pull off a Resurrection on RC (as opposed to "found the body, revived the corpse"), Durkon is close enough for Xykon to spot him and wipe him off the face of the earth.
Last edited by Squire Doodad; 2020-07-11 at 10:30 PM.
An explanation of why MitD being any larger than Huge is implausible.
See my extended signature here! May contain wit, candor, and somewhere from 52 to 8127 walruses.
Purple is humorous descriptions made up on the fly
Green is serious talk about hypothetical
Blue is irony and sarcasm
"I think, therefore I am,
I walk, therefore I stand,
I sleep, therefore I dream;
I joke, therefore I meme."
-Squire Doodad
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2020-07-11, 10:27 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2009
Re: OOTS #1206 - The Discussion Thread
Also Xykon REALLY likes trap the soul.
"Besides, you know the saying: Kill one, and you are a murderer. Kill millions, and you are a conqueror. Kill them all, and you are a god." -- Fishman
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2020-07-11, 10:40 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2004
Re: OOTS #1206 - The Discussion Thread
Spoiler: Start of DarknessDon't forget, Xykon gave some kind of hypnotic suggestion to the Monster in the Darkness to eat Redcloak and spit out his amulet if Redcloak ever betrays Xykon. So there's a solid chance Redcloak get killed by literally getting eaten alive. Short of the Monster throwing up, that's a "no corpse left behind" situation. So he'd need True Resurrection, which Durkon needs to gain a couple of levels to be able to do.
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2020-07-11, 10:41 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2014
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Re: OOTS #1206 - The Discussion Thread
*engages maximum pedantry mode*
Xykon really likes Soul Bind.
It's confusing, I know, but Trap the Soul is used to trap still living targets inside of a gem while Soul Bind is used to trap the soul of a dead target inside of a gem.
And then there's Binding, which can be used to trap a still living creature inside of a gem, or in a jar, or in a hedge maze, or in some chains, or...
So glad they trimmed the chaff in that area in later editions.Last edited by RatElemental; 2020-07-11 at 10:43 PM.
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2020-07-12, 12:10 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2009
Re: OOTS #1206 - The Discussion Thread
Dang it, that’s what I get for posting without checking my sources.
"Besides, you know the saying: Kill one, and you are a murderer. Kill millions, and you are a conqueror. Kill them all, and you are a god." -- Fishman
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2020-07-12, 12:33 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2019
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2020-07-12, 02:00 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2007
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- Manchester, UK
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2020-07-12, 06:16 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2012
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- Ottawa, Canada
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Re: OOTS #1206 - The Discussion Thread
SpoilerTo me, that’s a pretty obvious Chekhov’s Gun for MITD to not follow the suggestion, as a result of his character development. It’s one of the reasons why I think Redcloak will flip to the Order’s side, because that’s a scenario where the MITD (who now opposes Xykon and Redcloak’s goals and supports the Order and O-Chul) would have a clear reason to refuse.
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2020-07-12, 09:25 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2007
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Re: OOTS #1206 - The Discussion Thread
This is one of those cases that actually annoys me — where the character doesn’t say something they **obviously** should say (“I was dead at the time”). Sometimes going for the joke requires the smart characters to be stupid; but as a rule those are my least favorite jokes.
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2020-07-12, 09:31 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2009
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- Birmingham, AL
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Re: OOTS #1206 - The Discussion Thread
Cuthalion's art is the prettiest art of all the art. Like my avatar.
Number of times Roland St. Jude has sworn revenge upon me: 2
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2020-07-12, 09:47 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2009
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2020-07-12, 09:56 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2006
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- Watching the world go by
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Re: OOTS #1206 - The Discussion Thread
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2020-07-12, 10:03 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2019
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- Magrathea
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Re: OOTS #1206 - The Discussion Thread
An explanation of why MitD being any larger than Huge is implausible.
See my extended signature here! May contain wit, candor, and somewhere from 52 to 8127 walruses.
Purple is humorous descriptions made up on the fly
Green is serious talk about hypothetical
Blue is irony and sarcasm
"I think, therefore I am,
I walk, therefore I stand,
I sleep, therefore I dream;
I joke, therefore I meme."
-Squire Doodad
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2020-07-12, 10:40 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2012
Re: OOTS #1206 - The Discussion Thread
To be fair, I don't think Durkon himself is making the assumption that a cleric, especially a high priest, would normally only speak to their god after they died. He seems surprised that TDO has never directly spoken to Redcloak (and I'll admit I had the same reaction, so it doesn't seem that implausible).
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2020-07-12, 11:55 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2004
Re: OOTS #1206 - The Discussion Thread
Spoiler: Start of DarknessSorry I was unclear. While there's a solid chance Redcloak is going to die that way, it's still only a chance. Definitely possible that MITD will have a moment of breaking mind control because it's too antithetical to his (newly developed) character. Or maybe the magic will work as intended, leaving MITD horrified when he regains his senses. Or some other outcome that hasn't occurred to me. No way of knowing really, until we get there.
Still, if MITD does resist the mind control, I think that's going to be a 'Redcloak narrowly survives" situation, so whether or not Durkon would attempt a Resurrection and Redcloak would accept becomes moot point. It seems like it'd be really weird to go to the narrative trouble of having MITD break his magical chains only to have Redcloak die anyway. (Don't get me wrong, I'm sure Xykon will try to kill Redcloak directly once he realizes MITD won't do it, but him succeeding would be really hard to make work story-wise.)Last edited by Grey Watcher; 2020-07-12 at 02:52 PM.
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2020-07-12, 12:05 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2013
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2020-07-12, 12:24 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2017
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- France
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Re: OOTS #1206 - The Discussion Thread
Forum Wisdom
Mage avatar by smutmulch & linklele.
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2020-07-12, 12:32 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2008
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Re: OOTS #1206 - The Discussion Thread
Spoiler1) I'm don't know what the spell was, but it isn't suggestion, which has a time limit of 1 hour per caster level.
2) Why would it? Is there something in the rules that says it stops when the caster dies?
3) Roy didn't kill Xykon, just destroyed his body..
-.____________________
./___________________()-------Ron Miel
|...___________________--------sits down
|..| |_________________()-------and starts
|..|/__________________--------singing
| ___________________()-------about gold
.
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2020-07-12, 12:50 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2019
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Re: OOTS #1206 - The Discussion Thread
Spoiler
Oh. Huh. I assumed most enchantment spells in OOTS wear off when the caster dies, like the domination effect on Hilgya.
Does making a lich regenerate mean that any spell they cast wears off? The Cloister did end when Xykon got destroyed, but then again it's a comic-only spell.
I guess I wasn't sure how the mind effect on MITD would be introduced, since there's not a single hint in the strips of him being magically controlled by Xykon for years on end.
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2020-07-12, 04:22 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2009
Re: OOTS #1206 - The Discussion Thread
No spoiler protection needed, since this is back to regular comic territory... Could Durkon have been Resurrected using the trace of "whatever necrotic substance serves as the vampire's saliva" in Haley's bloodstream?
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2020-07-12, 04:27 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2004
Re: OOTS #1206 - The Discussion Thread
Unlikely. That "saliva" would have been produced after Durkon died and Resurrection needs something that was part of your body at the time of death. Sort of the inverse of "you can't chip off your earlobe and give it to someone to use for a Resurrection if you don't come back."
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2020-07-12, 06:05 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2020
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Re: OOTS #1206 - The Discussion Thread
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2020-07-12, 06:38 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2004
Re: OOTS #1206 - The Discussion Thread
"Inversion" was probably the wrong word. But it's similar in that the earlobe doesn't work because it stopped being part of you before you died, while the saliva didn't start to be part of you (due to not having been produced) until after you died. Neither meets the "was part of your body at the time of death" criterion.
Now, how vampire saliva-equivalent is produced is whether it's made (wholly or in part) from stuff that was part of the body at death hasn't been properly answered, but I was assuming the answer was "no".
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2020-07-12, 06:50 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2006
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Re: OOTS #1206 - The Discussion Thread
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2020-07-12, 06:58 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2010
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- Dallas, TX
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2020-07-12, 07:06 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2014
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Re: OOTS #1206 - The Discussion Thread
That right there is a rabbit hole. Can you resurrect the chicken you had last night using your own body? What about the bugs that the chicken ate when it was alive? Or the lion that died and fertilized the soil, being incorporated into the plants the bugs ate?
The restrictions on how long ago something that died can be resurrected seems to be tied to the state of the corpse, as implied by gentle repose. I think the moment part of you gets "processed" into being part of something else it can't be used to bring you back anymore.
Although this does raise the question of why you can resurrect someone with week old ashes but not century old bones...Last edited by RatElemental; 2020-07-12 at 07:08 PM.
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2020-07-12, 07:39 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1206 - The Discussion Thread
Because there are 2 things that go in to bringing someone back to life: you need to rebuild and repair their body and you need to call their soul to inhabit it. Resurrection can rebuild a body from nothing but ashes or a single eyelash or whatever, but it can only call a soul back that has been dead for 10 years per caster level. Which means that you can, at a minimum, bring back someone whose bones are no more than 130 years old. Not that people who have been dead that long are likely to come back from the dead without a good reason (having been an undead for 120 years and wanting to fix the problems you made might be one).