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Thread: Ioun Stones and hiding
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2020-07-07, 09:47 PM (ISO 8601)
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Ioun Stones and hiding
It seems pretty obvious that having a bunch of stones orbiting your head would be a major hindrance to remaining unseen, but as far as I know there's no Hide penalty associated with Ioun Stones. Is this addressed anywhere? If not, how do you play it?
Of course, a stealthy character could just put their Ioun Stones away before they went spying. But that leads to another question: what type of action is it to take one out of its orbit (or to put it into it, for that matter)?
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2020-07-07, 09:52 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Ioun Stones and hiding
No RAW as far as I know, but the DM might apply a small circumstance penalty if he sees fit.
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2020-07-07, 10:22 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Ioun Stones and hiding
if they don't glow or make sound I don't see the problem
Get your physics out of my D&D!
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2020-07-07, 10:32 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Ioun Stones and hiding
True.
If carrying 10 foot poles, portable battering rams or a cat familiar sitting on your shoulder doesn't impose a penalty, then Ioun stones probably shouldn't be an issue.
In regards to the other question in OP, lets have a look:
These crystalline stones always float in the air and must be within 3 feet of their owner to be of any use. When a character first acquires a stone, she must hold it and then release it, whereupon it takes up a circling orbit 1d3 feet from her head. Thereafter, a stone must be grasped or netted to separate it from its owner. The owner may voluntarily seize and stow a stone (to keep it safe while she is sleeping, for example), but she loses the benefits of the stone during that time. Ioun stones have AC 24, 10 hit points, and hardness 5.
Originally Posted by MIC p.220
However in Actions in Combat, the action to Draw or Sheathe a Weapon is a Move Action. Draw doesn't attract an AoO, whereas Sheathe does. Pick Up An Item is also a move action, and attracts an AoO.
I guess its a DM call - personally, I'd rule move action, with an AoO, although that may be a bit harsh on the player.Last edited by Thurbane; 2020-07-07 at 10:53 PM.
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2020-07-07, 11:57 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Ioun Stones and hiding
it's resource intensive but a permanent invisibility spell cast on them solves this pretty well.
I would be a procrastinator, but I keep putting it off.
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2020-07-08, 12:37 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Ioun Stones and hiding
One suggestion if your GM is on the fence about this - Pathfinder has magic items you can craft or buy called Wayfinders (a magic compass basically) that you can stick your ioun stones in and still gain their benefits, even if said compass is in your pocket or belt pouch. Some of these not only allow you to get the normal benefit of your ioun stone, but also unlock additional powers from the stone or enhance its existing ones.
Last edited by Psyren; 2020-07-08 at 09:12 AM.
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2020-07-08, 01:55 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Ioun Stones and hiding
Interestingly, I was reading up on Ioun Stones before I saw this thread, and came across a third party one (Pale Yellow Prism Ioun Stone; Kobold Quarterly issue 6) which indicates true north by giving off a flash once each time it orbits.
The description says the flash gives the owner a -1 penalty to Hide checks, unless stowed.
Now, I know 3rd party material is by no means a citation, but if an Ioun Stone that specifically flashes all the time only gives a -1, I'd tend to rule that others impose no penalty at all.My winning competition entries: Kinvig Arrumskor | The Great Pumpkinhead | Wynfrith d'Acker
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2020-07-08, 07:19 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Ioun Stones and hiding
A portable battering ram doesn't impose a penalty on its own, but it weighs 20lbs and carrying a medium or heavy load does impose a penalty, so unless your stealthy character is also very strong it substantially limits what else you can carry.
Fair point about the 10ft pole though, tbh I'd suspected the answer was going to be "they don't impose a Hide penalty, but then look at all these other things that don't either".
Yeah, I'd been leaning towards a move action, not sure about the AoO though.
Very interesting, thank you. I'd been thinking of maybe homebrewing an item you can slot them into, I might well use these instead.
-1 seems quite generous unless it's a barely-visible flash of light. Or maybe they orbit your head really slowly? That might explain the lack of a hide penalty...
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2020-07-08, 12:31 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Lost in L-Space
Re: Ioun Stones and hiding
As a homebrew solution to hide my small flotilla of Ioun Stones, I developed a little spell a few years ago.
Amiria's Ioun Invisibility -> Sor/Wiz 2nd level Illusion (glamer), makes one Ioun Stone per caster level invisible to everyone except the caster for a duration of days / level.Last edited by Amiria; 2020-07-08 at 12:32 PM.
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2020-07-08, 03:22 PM (ISO 8601)
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2020-07-08, 05:07 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Ioun Stones and hiding
Oddly enough there's another new Ioun Stone in the same article (Pale Yellow Prism) that gives off illumination as a sunrod (30 ft bright, 60 ft shadowy), which gives no hide penalty. Like I said, 3rd party isn't the best citation of RAW, but I still thought it was interesting.
Nice find! Stuff from A&EG is always surprising me, even though I've read it many times. There's a lot of stuff I've missed or forgotten about.My winning competition entries: Kinvig Arrumskor | The Great Pumpkinhead | Wynfrith d'Acker
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2020-07-09, 10:53 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Ioun Stones and hiding
I like those wayfinders. it's always seemed a bit dangerous ioun stones being so vulnerable, especially considering how expensive some of them are.
I would be a procrastinator, but I keep putting it off.
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2020-07-09, 01:17 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Ioun Stones and hiding
If you are going to go Pathfinder, just get a Western Star Ioun Stone.
It is a hat of disguise plus it turns all your ioun stones invisible when disguised.
You do not even have to go all out on such a disguise. Just do something cosmetic, like make your shirt the loudest Hawaiian shirt in existence, or change your footgear so nobody knows you are wearing socks with sandals.
While in Pathfinder, there are a number of other items that hold ioun stones like the ioun gauntlet, ioun spite bracers, and the wonderfully named and themed headband of twisted intellect. Note that no such items and wayfinders "stack" according to the rules for wayfinders.
For the ioun spite bracers, they even steal other people's ioun stones.
There are also some Pathfinder 3rd party (does that make the 4th or 5th party to 3E?) ioun stone holding items.
Finally, still with Pathfinder, just dig up the rules for surgically implanting ioun stones in your flesh and never worry about them getting stolen until you are dead. But definitely expect the rest of the party to loot your corpse.
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2020-07-09, 03:44 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Ioun Stones and hiding
I'm not sure why ioun stones would be any worse for stealth than, say, a hat.
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2020-07-09, 05:04 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Ioun Stones and hiding
My winning competition entries: Kinvig Arrumskor | The Great Pumpkinhead | Wynfrith d'Acker
Torn-City - Massively multiplayer online browser based crime RPG
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2020-07-09, 05:24 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Ioun Stones and hiding
but can't they just orbit slightly above thier head
Get your physics out of my D&D!
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2020-07-10, 05:04 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Ioun Stones and hiding
Hiding doesn't make you invisible, or even translucent like Stealth does in games like World of Warcraft. When you hide, you hide in or behind something. Hiding doesn't care if you have a whole solar system of ioun stones orbiting your head. Your check result determines how well you are hidden, including your gear and miniature solar system.
Even Hide in Plain Sight doesn't make you vanish and become invisible like the spell. Hide in Plain Sight lets you make hide check even when you're being observed (that is, looked at by someone or something).
HOW you're hidden exactly hidden is abstract, and up to you and your DM's interpretation.Last edited by Arkhios; 2020-07-10 at 05:14 AM.
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2020-07-10, 10:32 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Ioun Stones and hiding
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2020-07-10, 12:56 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Ioun Stones and hiding
Rhymes with "Protracted."
Handbooks: The Warlockopedia | The Warmagepedia (WIP) | Tier List (2019 Update)
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2020-07-10, 02:17 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Ioun Stones and hiding
Making noise doesn't really relate to Spot in any case.
I certainly wouldn't apply any kind of penalty (except perhaps if there's a creature that can more easily see things that are moving?) but I can see why others might, especially if you have a swarm of them orbiting you.Plague Doctor by Crimmy
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2020-07-10, 03:07 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Ioun Stones and hiding
Please be mindful of what you say in public; sadly not all can handle sarcasm or The Internet Credibility.
My Homebrew:
Base Class: Warlord | Roguish Archetype: Inquisitor | Roguish Archetype: Thug | Primal Path: Rage Mage
Ongoing game & character:
Sajan Uttam, human Monk 6/Fist of Irori 3 (Legacy of Fire)
D&D/Pathfinder CV of sorts
3.0 since 2002
3.5 since 2003
4e since 2008
Pathfinder 1e since 2008
5e since 2014
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2020-07-10, 03:24 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Ioun Stones and hiding
Plague Doctor by Crimmy
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2020-07-10, 05:05 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Ioun Stones and hiding
This is just another thing with Ioun Stones which gets hand-waved away.
I think a Gust of Wind or Air Elemental Whirlwind or ... should likely scatter them - but when did you ever see that happen ?π = 4
Consider a 5' radius blast: this affects 4 squares which have a circumference of 40' — Actually it's worse than that.
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2020-07-10, 06:13 PM (ISO 8601)
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2020-07-10, 11:36 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Ioun Stones and hiding
a 30k stone flying away in the wind, that would ruin a day. hope someone has discern location.
I would be a procrastinator, but I keep putting it off.
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2020-07-10, 11:58 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Ioun Stones and hiding
Rhymes with "Protracted."
Handbooks: The Warlockopedia | The Warmagepedia (WIP) | Tier List (2019 Update)
Spreadsheets: Spellcasting classes | Deities | Useful items
Homebrew: Gestalt Theurge | Fighter and Monk fixes | Warlock stuff | Houserules and quick fixes
Original Fiction: The Wizard's Familiar
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2020-07-11, 08:52 AM (ISO 8601)
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2020-07-11, 02:51 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Ioun Stones and hiding
Rhymes with "Protracted."
Handbooks: The Warlockopedia | The Warmagepedia (WIP) | Tier List (2019 Update)
Spreadsheets: Spellcasting classes | Deities | Useful items
Homebrew: Gestalt Theurge | Fighter and Monk fixes | Warlock stuff | Houserules and quick fixes
Original Fiction: The Wizard's Familiar
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2020-07-12, 02:20 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Finland
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Re: Ioun Stones and hiding
Please be mindful of what you say in public; sadly not all can handle sarcasm or The Internet Credibility.
My Homebrew:
Base Class: Warlord | Roguish Archetype: Inquisitor | Roguish Archetype: Thug | Primal Path: Rage Mage
Ongoing game & character:
Sajan Uttam, human Monk 6/Fist of Irori 3 (Legacy of Fire)
D&D/Pathfinder CV of sorts
3.0 since 2002
3.5 since 2003
4e since 2008
Pathfinder 1e since 2008
5e since 2014
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2020-07-13, 12:51 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2018
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- Nottingham, England
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Re: Ioun Stones and hiding
You can move up to half your speed, which is about 1.7mph for most characters, ie very slowly. While the text in the DMG doesn't give any indication as to what speed ioun stones rotate at, the accompanying picture certainly makes it look like they're orbiting fairly rapidly, so I always assumed that was the case. As I've said, maybe that was wrong and the picture is just misleading.
An analogy: a whole sky full of clouds drifting slowly by isn't very noticeable but a spinning top on a table two or three metres away is.