Flaw Pre-req

[schreier]

I know in general if you cease to have a pre-req, you lose the benefit of a prestige class or feat. With a base class, they are generally not pre-reqs so much as requirements (so a monk that becomes chaotic does not lose anything but cannot continue as a monk, a barbarian can become lawful later, etc...)

The flaw "Free-Spirited" has a pre-req of "Chaotic Alignment."

If you were to change alignment later, do you lose access to the flaw like a feat? If so, are you no longer penalized for weight in this case

The flaw in question:
Free-Spirited
Prerequisite: Chaotic alignment.
Benefit: The weight of any gear you carry is considered double for the purposes of determining your load. For example, a half-elf with a Strength of 10 and 30 pounds of gear is treated as carrying 60 pounds, which is a medium load. In addition, any armor check penalties you have are also doubled (or tripled, in the case of making a Swim check).

If you lose the flaw, do you lose the feat you gained through the flaw?

My gut says you are still penalized by the flaw, and keep the feat you gained.

But I wanted to get other's thoughts

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

The flaw Forlorn from Dragon 333 requires you to be able to summon a familiar, and the drawback is that you permanently lose the ability to summon a familiar and can't regain it by any means. It disqualifies you for itself.

The core flaw Pathetic can't be taken if your total ability modifiers is 8 or higher. If you gain enhancement bonuses or similar later you would fail to meet that requirement.

I can only conclude that a flaws prerequisites must be met to initially take it, but then they're meaningless thereafter. You take a flaw, you always have it, no takebacks.

[Doctor Despair]

I'd also add that it isn't a general rule that losing pre-requisites means you lose the benefits of whatever they qualified you for. With the exception of prestige classes from Complete Warrior and Complete Mage (someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe it was those two titles), you only need the prerequisites to take the first level of any prestige class, at which point you can lose the prerequisites and not only retain your class features, but continue to advance through that prestige class upon your future level-ups.

Feats, however, are a notable exception. You are required to retain the pre-requisites for your feats, lest you lose the benefit of those feats.

[Calthropstu]

I'd also add that it isn't a general rule that losing pre-requisites means you lose the benefits of whatever they qualified you for. With the exception of prestige classes from Complete Warrior and Complete Mage (someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe it was those two titles), you only need the prerequisites to take the first level of any prestige class, at which point you can lose the prerequisites and not only retain your class features, but continue to advance through that prestige class upon your future level-ups.

Feats, however, are a notable exception. You are required to retain the pre-requisites for your feats, lest you lose the benefit of those feats.

Hmmm. It could be considered that the extra feats gained from flaws have a requirement "Flaw" in order to gain the feat. Lose the flaw, lose the feat.

[Silly Name]

Nowhere in the books does it says that if you cease to meet the "requirement" then the flaw stops applying. There is no reason to suppose flaws behave like Feats or CW and CM Prestige Classes. So, that's a strictly RAW reading, you only need to meet the requirement when selecting the flaw.

I would also rule that players keep their requirement-gated flaws even if they no longer meet the requirement: they're supposed to be actual character flaws, and the only way they could be "lost" is if the characters overcome them (quite the unlikely occurrence from my experience with flaws), and even then I'd let the characters retain the bonus feats gained through flaws because otherwise it'd be a mess.

[schreier]

Hmmm. It could be considered that the extra feats gained from flaws have a requirement "Flaw" in order to gain the feat. Lose the flaw, lose the feat.

This was my biggest concern ...if you lose the flaw because you fail to meet a pre-req, you lose the effect. The effect it not just the negative (in this case, double weight of inventory), but arguably the feat that you gained as a result of the flaw (which is the benefit).

I personally think it is more logical to just keep the flaw, and the feat. I can see both sides, and was wondering if it had ever been discussed. It sounds like "not really" but there are those two possible interpretations .. the "do not lose - prereq is just that, required to take it and not keep it" makes sense to me

[Doctor Despair]

Unless you find specific text saying you lose the flaw if you lose the prerequisite, you keep the flaw, thus avoiding the conversation about whether you keep or lose the flaw entirely.

[schreier]

Unless you find specific text saying you lose the flaw if you lose the prerequisite, you keep the flaw, thus avoiding the conversation about whether you keep or lose the flaw entirely.

I believe it is RAW that you lose a feat without a prereq, and Flaws seem to be treated basically like negative feats from my experience - that would be the main argument for the more restrictive interpretation

https://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/b...acterFlaws.htm

"Flaws are like the flip side of feats. Whereas a feat enables a character to be better than normal at performing a task (or even to do something that normal characters can't), a flaw restricts a character's capabilities or imposes a penalty of some sort."

[Curelomosaurus]

"Flaws are like the flip side of feats. Whereas a feat enables a character to be better than normal at performing a task (or even to do something that normal characters can't), a flaw restricts a character's capabilities or imposes a penalty of some sort."

Yes, flaws have some similarities to feats, but there is no text saying you lose the flaw (and thus the bonus feat) if you no longer meet the prerequisites, so you keep the flaw. Note, however, that a flaw just be meaningful, so gaining a trait or feature that makes the flaw's penalty no longer apply (e.g. taking Pathetic: Constitution before becoming Necropolitan) could remove your flaw and bonus feat, depending on how vindictive your DM wants to be and how they interpret the text.