Sermil and the Banter of Randomness: Random Banter #228

[Peelee]

Great idea, terrible execution?

Honestly, it doesn't take much to make Menace a good movie just... Off the top of my head, make Jar Jar like 5 percent less clumsy and give him a different accent. Maybe a couple of extra takes on some of the more awkward scenes... If there's a movie that needed a special edition it's PM.

Jar Jar was irrelevant. If the Jedi don't land on the opposite side of the planet for no reason, they don't need to go to the Gungan city. The Gungan were largely irrelevant to the movie anyway - the only thing the add is a battle outside of the city, which could be replicated in other ways. Anakin was much too young, the podrace scene was entirely irrelevant, almost every major scene makes no sense whatsoever, there was a ton wrong with that movie and would need significant rewrites to make it good.

[Bartmanhomer]

I like the Phantom Menace. It's doesn't need to be rewritten. But that just my opinion.

[Tvtyrant]

I mean, months after getting a reply from a beautiful woman I know have three partners and difficulty juggling messages (especially with work), but I hear that I'm a special case. I think that it's partially making a massive effort to actually meet everybody in person, although it took like two three months for that to start happening.

Of course now restrictions are increasing again and I'm getting angsty. I know I have the antibodies so I'm much less likely to spread it, why can't I meet people for dates? (Well I can but I see full lockdown looming.)

Mmm, I think I set off some sort of radar at the best of times. I have managed three in person dates in 2 years and a couple dozen of these 1-2 month textships. Heck the one person I had real chemistry with this year hit the breaks hard on talking on discord and then ghosted me after exchanging numbers/discords and me buying the game she wanted to play with me. Something on my end for sure.

I'm glad things are going well for you, sorry you might get separated by lockout.

Jar Jar was irrelevant. If the Jedi don't land on the opposite side of the planet for no reason, they don't need to go to the Gungan city. The Gungan were largely irrelevant to the movie anyway - the only thing the add is a battle outside of the city, which could be replicated in other ways. Anakin was much too young, the podrace scene was entirely irrelevant, almost every major scene makes no sense whatsoever, there was a ton wrong with that movie and would need significant rewrites to make it good.

I don't know Peelee, I think it could have been done with only a few changes. Anakin as a pit fighting slave of 14-15 who was winning due to the force, the Gungans retake the city instead of fighting in a field, Seperatists retreat instead of losing their fleet when they hear Maul is dead.

[Peelee]

I don't know Peelee, I think it could have been done with only a few changes. Anakin as a pit fighting slave of 14-15 who was winning due to the force, the Gungans retake the city instead of fighting in a field, Seperatists retreat instead of losing their fleet when they hear Maul is dead.

The Nemoidians trying to gas the Jedi and then opening the chamber after mere seconds makes no sense. The Jedi (and, by extension, Trade a federation army) landing on the wrong side of the planet makes no sense. A group of non-droids and Nemoidians approaching a group a battle droids not being immediately attacked makes no sense. Battle droids having to vocally discuss things with each other despite all being controlled by a central computer makes no sense (in fact, the rampant stupidity of the battle droids controlled by a central computer makes no sense). A single ship effortlessly running a blockade with no distraction or other help makes no sense. Only listening to a single small shop, which is the first and only shop you've been to, makes no sense. A needlessly complicated gambling wager over an already uncertain contest makes no sense. Not trading a functional ship with no hyperdrive to the person who supposedly has the only hyperdrive that fits it in exchange for a ship with a functional hyperdrive makes no sense. The Senate not listening to two Jedi who were also representatives sent by the Republic and thus acting in an official capacity as witnesses to corroborate the Queen's story makes no sense. The blockade no longer existing on returning to the planet makes no sense. The Trade Federation going into the middle of nowhere for no apparent reason to fight people who have already been conquered makes no sense. The Gungans having military hardware despite abandoning all their lands makes no sense. Padme using a decoy even in private, such as on the ship with only her personal escort and two Jedi who are clearly and openly acting in her and Naboo's best interest, and in Senate testimony which has got to be fraud at the very least, makes no sense. The wealthy queen not trying to buy Anakin's freedom makes no sense.

Every major scene in the movie makes no sense. This would not require a small rewrite. The would require a major overhaul of the entire script.

[LaZodiac]

Blues Brothers 2000 is to Blues Brothers what Alien vs Predator is to Aliens. Or Jaws: The Revenge to Jaws. Or Rocky V to Rocky. Or John Rambo to First Blood. Or Kingdom of the Crystal Skull to Raiders of the Lost Ark. Or The Phantom Menace to A New Hope. Or Terminator Genisys to The Terminator. Or A Good Day to Die Hard to Die Hard. Or any of the Karate Kid sequels to The Karate Kid.

Except moreso. Blues Brothers 2000 is an abomination.

Looks like I hit a sharp edge! Which is totally understandable.

As for the prequel films... I recommend you watch these!

[Peelee]

Looks like I hit a sharp edge! Which is totally understandable.

As for the prequel films... I recommend you watch these!

I am intrigued.

For reals, though, Blues Brothers 2000 was pretty bad, and Blues Brothers was really good. I wholly recommend watching it. It's just fun. Plus, the musicians were all at the top of their games, unlike BB2000. I recommend the extended edition if you can find it. You'll know, it starts with some bleak cityscapes of smoke towers and stuff. Seems odd for a comedy. Worth it, especially since it explains the epoxy.

[Bartmanhomer]

The Nemoidians trying to gas the Jedi and then opening the chamber after mere seconds makes no sense. The Jedi (and, by extension, Trade a federation army) landing on the wrong side of the planet makes no sense. A group of non-droids and Nemoidians approaching a group a battle droids not being immediately attacked makes no sense. Battle droids having to vocally discuss things with each other despite all being controlled by a central computer makes no sense (in fact, the rampant stupidity of the battle droids controlled by a central computer makes no sense). A single ship effortlessly running a blockade with no distraction or other help makes no sense. Only listening to a single small shop, which is the first and only shop you've been to, makes no sense. A needlessly complicated gambling wager over an already uncertain contest makes no sense. Not trading a functional ship with no hyperdrive to the person who supposedly has the only hyperdrive that fits it in exchange for a shop with a functional hyperdrive makes no sense. The Senate not listening to two Jedi who were also representatives sent by the Republic and thus acting in an official capacity as witnesses to corroborate the Queen's story makes no sense. The blockade no longer existing on returning to the planet makes no sense. The Trade Federation going into the middle of nowhere for no apparent reason to fight people who have already been conquered makes no sense. The Gungans having military hardware despite abandoning all their lands makes no sense. Padme using a decoy even in private, such as on the ship with only her personal escort and two Jedi who are clearly and openly acting in her and Naboo's best interest, and in Senate testimony which has got to be fraud at the very least, makes no sense. The wealthy queen not trying to buy Anakin's freedom makes no sense.

Every major scene in the movie makes no sense. This would not require a small rewrite. The would require a major overhaul of the entire script.

Of course, it doesn't make any sense. It's entertainment.

[Fyraltari]

Jar Jar was irrelevant. If the Jedi don't land on the opposite side of the planet for no reason, they don't need to go to the Gungan city. The Gungan were largely irrelevant to the movie anyway - the only thing the add is a battle outside of the city, which could be replicated in other ways. Anakin was much too young, the podrace scene was entirely irrelevant, almost every major scene makes no sense whatsoever, there was a ton wrong with that movie and would need significant rewrites to make it good.

Isn't the entire movie irrelevant anyway? The opening scenes of the next one are all that's needed for plot relevance.

The Trade Federation going into the middle of nowhere for no apparent reason to fight people who have already been conquered makes no sense. The Gungans having military hardware despite abandoning all their lands makes no sense.

Huh, I think the Gungan had just fled their city and took their hardware with them. So they hadn't been conquered yet.

Padme using a decoy even in private, such as on the ship with only her personal escort and two Jedi who are clearly and openly acting in her and Naboo's best interest, and in Senate testimony which has got to be fraud at the very least, makes no sense.

No this maybe because I can't distinguish Keira Knightley and Natalie Portman, and the make-up (intentionnally) doesn't help but isn't she not using her decoy in these scenes (at least in the senate and that's why "Padmé" isn't there for Ani to talk to)?

Also, you forgot Maul coming back to Naboo makes no sense. He has no stake in this fight.

Seperatists

The Separatist Alliance doesn't exist in TPM, that's how irrelevant that movie is.

EDIT:

Of course, it doesn't make any sense. It's entertainment.

[Anonymouswizard]

Mmm, I think I set off some sort of radar at the best of times. I have managed three in person dates in 2 years and a couple dozen of these 1-2 month textships. Heck the one person I had real chemistry with this year hit the breaks hard on talking on discord and then ghosted me after exchanging numbers/discords and me buying the game she wanted to play with me. Something on my end for sure.

I'm glad things are going well for you, sorry you might get separated by lockout.

We all feel like that sometimes. But don't worry, I can tell you from personal experience that if you keep banging your face against the wall that eventually you'll be so ugly from the swelling and bruises that somebody will take pity on you.

Or find somebody decent who isn't interested in dating just for the free stuff. I'm not sure which it was. I've given up trying to convince one of my girlfriends to let me pay for dinner...

Of course, it doesn't make any sense. It's entertainment.

I mean, entertainment doesn't have to make sense, but it's not detrimental to the experience. It can certainly help with my willing suspension of disbelief, if I know the man in the blue box is a time traveller from the future than it's easier to believe when he alters his screwdriver to burn through concrete than when I know he's from the 1800s.

[Lord Raziere]

Looks like I hit a sharp edge! Which is totally understandable.

As for the prequel films... I recommend you watch these!

I'll be watching it now, just to see what some people think of a better Episode 1, I always just liked it for the cool podracing sequence.

[Bartmanhomer]

We all feel like that sometimes. But don't worry, I can tell you from personal experience that if you keep banging your face against the wall that eventually you'll be so ugly from the swelling and bruises that somebody will take pity on you.

Or find somebody decent who isn't interested in dating just for the free stuff. I'm not sure which it was. I've given up trying to convince one of my girlfriends to let me pay for dinner...





I mean, entertainment doesn't have to make sense, but it's not detrimental to the experience. It can certainly help with my willing suspension of disbelief if I know the man in the blue box is a time traveler from the future than it's easier to believe when he alters his screwdriver to burn through concrete than when I know he's from the 1800s.

I've been watching TV shows and movies for 35 years and I've seen so many things that don't make any sense for the sake of entertainment such as The Naked Gun movie trilogy.

[LaZodiac]

I am intrigued.

For reals, though, Blues Brothers 2000 was pretty bad, and Blues Brothers was really good. I wholly recommend watching it. It's just fun. Plus, the musicians were all at the top of their games, unlike BB2000. I recommend the extended edition if you can find it. You'll know, it starts with some bleak cityscapes of smoke towers and stuff. Seems odd for a comedy. Worth it, especially since it explains the epoxy.

I'll look into it! And do enjoy, there is one for each prequel and it makes a genuinely beautiful story, think.

Of course, it doesn't make any sense. It's entertainment.

You sure about that chief?

I'll be watching it now, just to see what some people think of a better Episode 1, I always just liked it for the cool podracing sequence.

It's the best part of the film but it definitely lags a bit and there was going to be an entire additional lap initially.

I've been watching TV shows and movies for 35 years and I've seen so many things that don't make any sense for the sake of entertainment such as The Naked Gun movie trilogy.

Okay so I have to break this to you Bartmanhomer; most entertainment does make sense. If it doesn't make sense, there's either something you're missing or the thing is just bad.

In the case of The Naked Gun... it is a parody. It's not supposed to make sense because it is a parody of action spy thrillers. In that sense, everything that happens in The Naked Gun makes sense WITHIN CONTEXT.

[Bartmanhomer]

I'll look into it! And do enjoy, there is one for each prequel and it makes a genuinely beautiful story, think.



Are you sure about that chief?



It's the best part of the film but it definitely lags a bit and there was going to be an entire additional lap initially.



Okay so I have to break this to you Bartmanhomer; most entertainment does make sense. If it doesn't make sense, there's either something you're missing or the thing is just bad.

In the case of The Naked Gun... it is a parody. It's not supposed to make sense because it is a parody of action spy thrillers. In that sense, everything that happens in The Naked Gun makes sense WITHIN CONTEXT.

Yes, I'm sure of that. I'm a master of television and movies. And I'm not saying that all entertainment doesn't make. There are some TV shows and movies that don't make any sense but it can still be entertaining for context and content.

[Lord Raziere]

It's the best part of the film but it definitely lags a bit and there was going to be an entire additional lap initially.

watched it, the idea of Obi-wan taking revenge for Qui-gonn on a still alive Darth Maul appearing throughout the prequell trilogy is a common one, and I wouldn't be opposed to it. double-lightsaber wielding zabrak sith would be cool to see more of.

[LaZodiac]

watched it, the idea of Obi-wan taking revenge for Qui-gonn on a still alive Darth Maul appearing throughout the prequell trilogy is a common one, and I wouldn't be opposed to it. double-lightsaber wielding zabrak sith would be cool to see more of.

Darth Maul is such a cool character that literally every expanded universe thing immediately went "okay so he definitely survived and we're giving him cool robot legs". Killing him off where they did is genuinely just a waste of talent and design.

[Mystic Muse]

Yes, I'm sure of that. I'm a master of television and movies. And I'm not saying that all entertainment doesn't make. There are some TV shows and movies that don't make any sense but it can still be entertaining for context and content.

In what sense are you a master of television and movies?

And do you have any other examples of movies or TV shows that don't make sense? I can only think of one, and can't actually say its name (it's an infamous movie starring Tom Green.)

[Anonymouswizard]

I've been watching TV shows and movies for 35 years and I've seen so many things that don't make any sense for the sake of entertainment such as The Naked Gun movie trilogy.

I'm not denying that some pieces of entertainment don't make sense, one of my favourite shows (I'm Sorry I Haven't A Clue) is built around the idea of nonsensicality. But your statement wasn't that some entertainment doesn't make sense, it was that of course something doesn't make sense because it's entertainment. You implied a relationship where B causes A.

And honestly, a lot of entertainment that appears not to make sense does. Imagine you have no idea what Doctor Who is and somebody shows you Curse of the Fatal Death (probably caused by that Deadly Assassin I keep hearing about). Now while quite a bit of it will make sense, even the Doctor/Master relationship isn't that complex, some things will just seen random unless you know the context l, particularly one joke in Part 2 where the Doctor burns through four regenerations in about a minute trying to defuse a weapon. Unless you have context it's literally 'the character exits the scene, there's some sound effects, and they re-enter the scene played by a new actor'.

Which can be even worse outside of comedy. Staying with the same franchise Doctor Who tends to handle regeneration rather well, even the very first instance which makes several implications that are never brought up again. But Doctor Who the movie messed up due to not accounting for a new audience, to many they'd been introduced to the main character played by Sylvester McCoy, who roughly a third of the way through suddenly dies, goes through CGI, and becomes a different and much more attractive character with a completely different personality. And then doesn't explain it properly, because it's happened six times already. (Compare this to the Nine->Ten regeneration, where the Doctor gives a brief overview of what's about to happen as the scene builds up to him changing, and the entire subsequent episode has a subplot dedicated to making what it means clearer, and thus providing the context).

[Rater202]

watched it, the idea of Obi-wan taking revenge for Qui-gonn on a still alive Darth Maul appearing throughout the prequell trilogy is a common one, and I wouldn't be opposed to it. double-lightsaber wielding zabrak sith would be cool to see more of.

...Did you watch Clone Wars? or Rebels?

Becuase, uh... Turns out Obi-Wan cutting Maul in half didn't kill him. And he's in some of the cartoons.

[Anonymouswizard]

...Did you watch Clone Wars? or Rebels?

Becuase, uh... Turns out Obi-Wan cutting Maul in half didn't kill him. And he's in some of the cartoons.

At this point I'd be shocked if disintegration killed the guy.

[LaZodiac]

I'm not denying that some pieces of entertainment don't make sense, one of my favourite shows (I'm Sorry I Haven't A Clue) is built around the idea of nonsensicality. But your statement wasn't that some entertainment doesn't make sense, it was that of course something doesn't make sense because it's entertainment. You implied a relationship where B causes A.

And honestly, a lot of entertainment that appears not to make sense does. Imagine you have no idea what Doctor Who is and somebody shows you Curse of the Fatal Death (probably caused by that Deadly Assassin I keep hearing about). Now while quite a bit of it will make sense, even the Doctor/Master relationship isn't that complex, some things will just seen random unless you know the context l, particularly one joke in Part 2 where the Doctor burns through four regenerations in about a minute trying to defuse a weapon. Unless you have context it's literally 'the character exits the scene, there's some sound effects, and they re-enter the scene played by a new actor'.

Which can be even worse outside of comedy. Staying with the same franchise Doctor Who tends to handle regeneration rather well, even the very first instance which makes several implications that are never brought up again. But Doctor Who the movie messed up due to not accounting for a new audience, to many they'd been introduced to the main character played by Sylvester McCoy, who roughly a third of the way through suddenly dies, goes through CGI, and becomes a different and much more attractive character with a completely different personality. And then doesn't explain it properly, because it's happened six times already. (Compare this to the Nine->Ten regeneration, where the Doctor gives a brief overview of what's about to happen as the scene builds up to him changing, and the entire subsequent episode has a subplot dedicated to making what it means clearer, and thus providing the context).

As someone who has watched a random episode of Doctor Who without any context before, I can say 100% this is correct.

At this point I'd be shocked if disintegration killed the guy.

By canon, he's alive while Kenobi is playing at being Ben.

[Bartmanhomer]

In what sense are you a master of television and movies?

And do you have any other examples of movies or TV shows that don't make sense? I can only think of one, and can't actually say its name (it's an infamous movie starring Tom Green.)

I watch every television and movies that you can possibly think of. Well the other examples are South Park, Family Guy, The Simpsons does have moments that they can be nonsensical.

[Rater202]

Of course, tha'ts Disney canon.

Legends canon we don't know when he died(Clone Wars is both Legends and Dinsey EU canon, but Rebels is only Disney.)

A think I want to do someday is a roleplay where several different characters from different points in the timeline end up on Tatooine during Phantom Menace and just see how badly they can derail the Prequels.

I imagine that part of the fun is that some of the players would be from the Legends timeline and some would be from the Disney timeline and realize quite quickly that their knowledge of history don't line up in ways that can't be easily explained.

[Bartmanhomer]

I'm not denying that some pieces of entertainment don't make sense, one of my favourite shows (I'm Sorry I Haven't A Clue) is built around the idea of nonsensicality. But your statement wasn't that some entertainment doesn't make sense, it was that of course something doesn't make sense because it's entertainment. You implied a relationship where B causes A.

And honestly, a lot of entertainment that appears not to make sense does. Imagine you have no idea what Doctor Who is and somebody shows you Curse of the Fatal Death (probably caused by that Deadly Assassin I keep hearing about). Now while quite a bit of it will make sense, even the Doctor/Master relationship isn't that complex, some things will just seen random unless you know the context l, particularly one joke in Part 2 where the Doctor burns through four regenerations in about a minute trying to defuse a weapon. Unless you have context it's literally 'the character exits the scene, there's some sound effects, and they re-enter the scene played by a new actor'.

Which can be even worse outside of comedy. Staying with the same franchise Doctor Who tends to handle regeneration rather well, even the very first instance which makes several implications that are never brought up again. But Doctor Who the movie messed up due to not accounting for a new audience, to many they'd been introduced to the main character played by Sylvester McCoy, who roughly a third of the way through suddenly dies, goes through CGI, and becomes a different and much more attractive character with a completely different personality. And then doesn't explain it properly, because it's happened six times already. (Compare this to the Nine->Ten regeneration, where the Doctor gives a brief overview of what's about to happen as the scene builds up to him changing, and the entire subsequent episode has a subplot dedicated to making what it means clearer, and thus providing the context).

Wait a minute. How does watching a TV Show and movies can have a relationship?

[Anonymouswizard]

As someone who has watched a random episode of Doctor Who without any context before, I can say 100% this is correct.

Didn't you watch like the one episode of nuWho intentionally filled to the brim with references to the classic series? Including them having to make the CGI out of bubble wrap? I suspect if you started with like Series 12, Series 1, or even Season 1 it would make a lot more sense (and no, I'm not going to bother to explain which one comes first).

[Lord Raziere]

...Did you watch Clone Wars? or Rebels?

Becuase, uh... Turns out Obi-Wan cutting Maul in half didn't kill him. And he's in some of the cartoons.

Rater, the star wars things I mainly have consumed and stick in my mind are the original trilogy, prequels, Kotors 1 and 2, The Force Unleashed and maybe The Old Republic MMO on the rare occasions I feel like playing it instead of better games. I have seen other things in Star Wars sure but not in large amounts, and clone wars is one of those things I never really paid attention to all that much. I am not an avid consumer of everything Star Wars, like everything else I try to be selective and go for what interests me, and I just never got interested in either of those two things about Star Wars.

Edit: oh right I unironically liked the Solo movie, because Han Solos is my favorite character in Star Wars.

[LaZodiac]

Didn't you watch like the one episode of nuWho intentionally filled to the brim with references to the classic series? Including them having to make the CGI out of bubble wrap? I suspect if you started with like Series 12, Series 1, or even Season 1 it would make a lot more sense (and no, I'm not going to bother to explain which one comes first).

Literally all I know is that the robot dog friend was there. I genuinely do not know what else I can tell you because all I remember is that. So probably, yes.

[Qwertystop]

I saw this thing a while ago which puts together a surprisingly good case for Jar Jar's general clumsy awkward messiness actually being an act, and he's actually a Sith (with that bit written out and replaced with Dooku when fans hated him more than expected). It's definitely... something? Honestly I've never been particularly into Star Wars. It could be plausible, it could also be careful cherry-picking. Funny to think about.

[LaZodiac]

I saw this thing a while ago which puts together a surprisingly good case for Jar Jar's general clumsy awkward messiness actually being an act, and he's actually a Sith (with that bit written out and replaced with Dooku when fans hated him more than expected). It's definitely... something? Honestly I've never been particularly into Star Wars. It could be plausible, it could also be careful cherry-picking. Funny to think about.

Darth Jar Jar is extremely cherrypicking/wishful thinking and is very very VERY silly, in my opinion. I remember people bringing it up seriously for the sequel trilogy and I'm like... guys. Please. It's a joke.

[Rater202]

If you actually look at Jar Jar's actions... He's one of the kindest and most selfless people in all three trilogies.

That's why I say toning down the clumsiness a little bit and giving him a different accent would go a long way to salvaging the movie.

(Also, apparently, he's like, really good in Clone Wars. Apparently, the whole thing with Clone Wars was "lets explains and/or make up for stuff that was bad in the prequels.")

[Peelee]

If you actually look at Jar Jar's actions... He's one of the kindest and most selfless people in all three trilogies.

In the very first movie, as a general of the Gungans, he immediately surrenders at the first opportunity to do so, despite the significantly more trained and experienced captain telling him not to. This surrender is on behalf of all Gungans in the field. This is an amazingly selfish act solely to save his own skin without regard for the entire purpose they were fighting to begin with.

Jar Jar is kind and selfless when it doesn't cost him anything.