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2020-07-30, 08:55 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Sermil and the Banter of Randomness: Random Banter #228
Yes, I am slightly egomaniac. Why didn't you ask?
Free haiku !
Alas, poor Cookie
The world needs more platypi
I wish you could be
Originally Posted by Fyraltari
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2020-07-30, 09:07 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Sermil and the Banter of Randomness: Random Banter #228
Sure, just pick up a grade school math textbook and look in the section that explains division. 10 is divisible by 1, 2, 5 10. 12 is divisible by 1, 2, 3, 4, 6, 12. You do much woodworking? Fractions are going to be simpler. There's a reason I specified "in engineering".
And ya know, it's a funny thing. For every person that pushes back against "it's useful in specific circumstances", I see approximately zero people (rounded) that decide to argue for metric in timekeeping, which I must note is also not metric. It's not en vogue to argue that one as opposed to US Customary Units, though.Cuthalion's art is the prettiest art of all the art. Like my avatar.
Number of times Roland St. Jude has sworn revenge upon me: 2
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2020-07-30, 09:20 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Sermil and the Banter of Randomness: Random Banter #228
But the USC aren’t in base 12. They are not in any base at all that’s the issue* (12 inches make a foot, 3 feet make a yard, 1760 yards make a mile).
And ya know, it's a funny thing. For every person that pushes back against "it's useful in specific circumstances", I see approximately zero people (rounded) that decide to argue for metric in timekeeping, which I must note is also not metric. It's not en vogue to argue that one as opposed to US Customary Units, though.
*that and there seems to be no relation between units of volume and‘ length which is baffling.Last edited by Fyraltari; 2020-07-30 at 09:21 AM.
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2020-07-30, 09:21 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Sermil and the Banter of Randomness: Random Banter #228
If US Customary Units were entirely base 12, I feel like the argument would hold better. Going from an inch to a foot to a mile is not the same "magnitude conversion as a mm, cm, m, km conversion.
The value of SI is that all the units are inter related and defined based on universal prototypes (I believe the Kilogram was the last prototype to be surpassed).
Now the _ideal_ for me is if SI was in base 12 as well as introducing a base 12 number system. That way, we have the benefit of clean fractions and dozenal (as opposed to decimal) notation.
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2020-07-30, 09:26 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Sermil and the Banter of Randomness: Random Banter #228
Also, you can still use the number 12 in base 10.
Yes, I am slightly egomaniac. Why didn't you ask?
Free haiku !
Alas, poor Cookie
The world needs more platypi
I wish you could be
Originally Posted by Fyraltari
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2020-07-30, 09:28 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Sermil and the Banter of Randomness: Random Banter #228
And if all engineering was done in all US Customary Units that would be a better point.
I'll cop to being a bit open-ended with "engineering," though. Woodworking, plumbing, the trades. It is a system that does have value in specific areas, just like how a system that has units in 60, 60, 24, 30 or 31 depending (and also 28 and sometimes 29), 12, and 365 has value in a specific area despite not being the same magnitude conversion as a mm, cm, m, km conversion.Last edited by Peelee; 2020-07-30 at 09:31 AM.
Cuthalion's art is the prettiest art of all the art. Like my avatar.
Number of times Roland St. Jude has sworn revenge upon me: 2
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2020-07-30, 09:33 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Sermil and the Banter of Randomness: Random Banter #228
About the measure of time, I was going to say that the minute/hour/day system was used everywhere but O don’t actually know wether that’s true and a quick internet search found me nothing, so consider this an open question to the forum: are there places where the day isn’t divided into 24 hours of sixty minutes made of sixty seconds ?
Anyway since human relate to time with the passing of days and the passing of years and there are 365. 256363051 days in a year, we can’t come up with time system using a base that would be useful in day-to-day life.Forum Wisdom
Mage avatar by smutmulch & linklele.
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2020-07-30, 09:35 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Sermil and the Banter of Randomness: Random Banter #228
Forget metric vs. Imperial, the real issue is that the US refuses to use Imperial properly. For example, a quart is 1.1365225 litres but 0.946352946 liters.
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2020-07-30, 09:37 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Sermil and the Banter of Randomness: Random Banter #228
Cuthalion's art is the prettiest art of all the art. Like my avatar.
Number of times Roland St. Jude has sworn revenge upon me: 2
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2020-07-30, 09:45 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Sermil and the Banter of Randomness: Random Banter #228
...Are we really arguing Imperiaal vs Metric vs US?
That never ends well.
...I swear, when I take over the world and assimilate everything into a techno-organic collective consciousness we'll measure everything in CalvinBal units, which alternate between Base Potato ns Base Tater depending on what day it is in a Callender of 12 thirty day weeks and days that consist of 24 months. composes of sixty years each all adding up to a farthing. (seconds and minutes are abolished.)I also answer to Bookmark and Shadow Claw.
Read my fanfiction here. Homebrew Material Here Rater Reads the Hobbit and Dracula
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2020-07-30, 09:52 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Sermil and the Banter of Randomness: Random Banter #228
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2020-07-30, 09:55 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Sermil and the Banter of Randomness: Random Banter #228
Imean, if you really want, I can get into the better specifics, like how whenever I see my cousin from Tyrol put up something on social media and I toss it into Google Translate I get maybe 40% of it back in English, but that's not nearly as pithy.
Oh, and I even spelled it without the "I" as a gesture of goodwill to your English sensibilities.Last edited by Peelee; 2020-07-30 at 09:56 AM.
Cuthalion's art is the prettiest art of all the art. Like my avatar.
Number of times Roland St. Jude has sworn revenge upon me: 2
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2020-07-30, 09:55 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Sermil and the Banter of Randomness: Random Banter #228
Pretty sure that the utility gained by using a different system for the very specific tasks it is better at (which I am not convinced is true but willing to let slide for the sake of argument) is overshadowed by the utility lost when that system has to interact with the general system.
Another point, it’s not called « the metric system » it’s the « international system of units » because the point of it is too smooth communication, trade and exchange all over the globe by having everybody measure things in the same units. If every nation used its own units commerce and science would be a horrible mess.Last edited by Fyraltari; 2020-07-30 at 09:56 AM.
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2020-07-30, 09:59 AM (ISO 8601)
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2020-07-30, 10:01 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Sermil and the Banter of Randomness: Random Banter #228
Cuthalion's art is the prettiest art of all the art. Like my avatar.
Number of times Roland St. Jude has sworn revenge upon me: 2
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2020-07-30, 10:03 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Sermil and the Banter of Randomness: Random Banter #228
Forum Wisdom
Mage avatar by smutmulch & linklele.
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2020-07-30, 10:04 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Sermil and the Banter of Randomness: Random Banter #228
And yet I've never met an engineer who likes them, mainly due to problems converting between units in the system. There's also a few unfortunate associations with having a stated preference for Imperial over here.
Don't forget their horrible spelling, can't even get centre right.
Or the micron, a unit that exists solely so Americans don't get confused between a thingy that I forget the name for and a micrometre
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2020-07-30, 10:05 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Sermil and the Banter of Randomness: Random Banter #228
Cuthalion's art is the prettiest art of all the art. Like my avatar.
Number of times Roland St. Jude has sworn revenge upon me: 2
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2020-07-30, 10:08 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Sermil and the Banter of Randomness: Random Banter #228
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2020-07-30, 10:09 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Sermil and the Banter of Randomness: Random Banter #228
FeytouchedBanana eldritch disciple avatar by...me!
The Index of the Giant's Comments VI―Making Dogma from Zapped Bananas
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2020-07-30, 10:19 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Sermil and the Banter of Randomness: Random Banter #228
Jeez, you guys and your "the point you are making should be clearly understandable but you are sacrificing pinpoint accuracy for pithiness and I won't have it!"-ness.
Yes, I'll cop to that. But when I say "the metric system" everyone knows exactly what to equate it to and that equation will be correct. There's no functional difference.Cuthalion's art is the prettiest art of all the art. Like my avatar.
Number of times Roland St. Jude has sworn revenge upon me: 2
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2020-07-30, 10:20 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Sermil and the Banter of Randomness: Random Banter #228
A quart is 0, 25 L
I still don’t see your point, they changed the name to better advertise its purpose, what’s the issue?
That’s because computers don’t think like humans and humans are bad at thinking like computers.Forum Wisdom
Mage avatar by smutmulch & linklele.
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2020-07-30, 10:59 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Sermil and the Banter of Randomness: Random Banter #228
Yes, I am slightly egomaniac. Why didn't you ask?
Free haiku !
Alas, poor Cookie
The world needs more platypi
I wish you could be
Originally Posted by Fyraltari
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2020-07-30, 11:03 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Sermil and the Banter of Randomness: Random Banter #228
No; it's because specialized systems are better at what they're specialized for, and a top-level system tying specialized systems together is more efficient than a general system trying to do all those tasks itself. It's as true with hardware abstraction layers, as it is with division of labor, as it with organs in a body, as it is with organelles in a cell.
Conversely, using a specialized system adjacent to what it's specialized for may or may not be inefficient...which is where the weak engineering argument Peelee has made comes in. I mean, there are three teaspoons in a tablespoon, and measures of volume from tablespoon all the way up to gallon increase by a power of two; so a cup can also be evenly divided by 2, 3, or 4....Yet "there are sixteen teaspoons in a third of a cup" being true doesn't really seem like a feature, so much as happenstance; even before considering that the situation is better handled by a one-third-cup measuring cup regardless. So the "twelve inches in a foot is convenient because it can be cleanly divided by 2/3/4" thing doesn't feel particularly convincing.FeytouchedBanana eldritch disciple avatar by...me!
The Index of the Giant's Comments VI―Making Dogma from Zapped Bananas
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2020-07-30, 11:38 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Sermil and the Banter of Randomness: Random Banter #228
I'm American, the imperial units are pretty awful IMO. I have to stop and think about how long a mile is in feet, how big an acre is, how many quarts in a galleon, etc.
How big is a table spoon? Why is a cup so small compared to glass sizes? Why do we have quarts and pints?
My brain goes: cup, gallon, inches, feet, estimate of a mile. I would prefer an easier system by far.
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2020-07-30, 12:52 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Sermil and the Banter of Randomness: Random Banter #228
Americans can American their measurements as much as they like...but I can't abide by measuring dry ingredients by volume (at least when they're more than a tablespoon).
Put them in oz. if you must, but what on Earth is a cup of flour!?Hi, I'm back, I guess. ^_^I cosplay and stream LPs of single player games on Twitch! Mon, Wed & Fri; currently playing: Nier: Replicant (Mon/Wed) and The Legend of Zelda: Oracle of Seasons (Thurs or Fri)
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2020-07-30, 01:24 PM (ISO 8601)
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2020-07-30, 02:06 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Sermil and the Banter of Randomness: Random Banter #228
FeytouchedBanana eldritch disciple avatar by...me!
The Index of the Giant's Comments VI―Making Dogma from Zapped Bananas
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2020-07-30, 02:34 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Sermil and the Banter of Randomness: Random Banter #228
Just gonna add, what was that one mars thing robot that blew up coz of converting imperial to metric? I heard it somewhere I think. Currently really tired and can't be bothered doing research though. I submit that to the court as a reason for why having two conflicting units of measurement is difficult, and since the majority of the world use metric, surely it is better for america to just assimilate with us like a good colony.
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2020-07-30, 03:05 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Sermil and the Banter of Randomness: Random Banter #228
It didn't get destroyed because some people worked in US Customary and some in metric. It got destroyed because that information was not conveyed. It was a communication issue more than anything. While I normally am all about changing the US over to metric, and it wouldn't have happened to start with if they had all used metric, communication is still important and it wasn't happening there, so I would prefer things like that get exposed in non-manned, non-essential missions than potentially more important or manned missions.
Cuthalion's art is the prettiest art of all the art. Like my avatar.
Number of times Roland St. Jude has sworn revenge upon me: 2