Jim Butcher's Peace Talks: Dresden Files Book 16 [Contains Spoilers]

[josienoms]

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A fair bit of modern fantasy fiction tends to equate the concept of Titans across various pantheons.

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That's what I think is happening here, too. Jim's just using the recognizable word "Titan" as a catchall term for "malevolent precursor deity", which I'm assuming is inclusive of the actual Greek Titans, the Fomorian Lords, and the Jotuns.

[Sloanzilla]

Spoiler: Tie-in to Celtic mythology

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Lugh killed Balor, who was his grandfather. Kinda an interesting tie-in to this book.

[Dragonus45]

Spoiler: Tie-in to Celtic mythology

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Lugh killed Balor, who was his grandfather. Kinda an interesting tie-in to this book.

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Indeed he did, and that was why his mother was locked up in the first place. I assume that might be what she was talking about when she mentioned “never being given a choice.”

[tomandtish]

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Turning him mortal might just be prolonging his pain and suffering if it turns out Justine was the mole, and the outsider corruption has been shown to be a serious struggle to actually remove too. Although it's also possible she isn't the mole in which case he might still be able to swing a happy ending.

Here's an interesting thought....

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If Justine is the mole, are we really sure she's pregnant? Thomas says she is, but what better way to get him further under her thumb (and maybe not thinking as clearly) than to fake a pregnancy?

[GrayDeath]

If that had been a standalone book, I would have stopped reading, as that end is everything but an ending.

Also, while it wasnt BAD, it left out many a detail (Ivy, other Talks at the first Party,a fter all he actually knows how to network by now) and has some ...disjointed seeming parts (just about anything the Wardens do).
Could have saved a few pages of "oh shes so sexy" stuff about lara from it, or hey, nothing saying it couldnt have been 25 pages longer.

But dang, finally Murph, finally. :D

On the other hand, only 3 months to wait, time for a relaxed reread before battleground.

And hoboy, are those some stakes. Are we sure he didnt shorten it ´back to 20 books INCLUDING the 3 Apocalyptic Finale Books!?

[Sloanzilla]

^ I agree with all of that

[Rynjin]

Here's an interesting thought....

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If Justine is the mole, are we really sure she's pregnant? Thomas says she is, but what better way to get him further under her thumb (and maybe not thinking as clearly) than to fake a pregnancy?

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Dresden reads her aura as pregnant, though it may be he was conflating some other change in her aura and fitting it to the evidence he had.

I reserve full judgement on the flow of the story until Battle Grounds comes out. As far as I'm concerned, this is not a full book, it's more like a lengthy installment in a web serial that's going to update in three months.

[tomandtish]

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I think there's a high chance at least one of the Svartalves is, possibly Evanna, who was in regular contact with Thomas and was in charge of his incarceration and treatment (meaning she was able to keep him unable to point the finger at her by having him beaten so severely he couldn't). Recall that when they were attempting to "rescue" Maggie (and Bonea) in the embassy fire Mouse was very distrustful and resistant to those attempts.

Mouse is usually the smartest one in the room.

The Svartalves are fanatically loyal to their kind, but the nature of Nemesis is to allow supernatural beings to act against their nature. I very much suspect it is related to how Thomas gained entry for his assassination attempt and possibly the reason he did it.

Mouse is usually the smartest, but...

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Remember, as Evanna says “We only sought to put them in protective custody and escort them out of the building through the escape tunnel.” And she specifically says they aren't in danger from the fire. I suspect the Svartalves are taking them as hostages if Harry is involved in what Thomas did and to protect them if he isn't. Notice her attitude changes once Harry passes what appears to be her truth spell that tells her he has no idea what's going on. But from their point of view if Thomas was involved then there's a good chance Harry might be.

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Dresden reads her aura as pregnant, though it may be he was conflating some other change in her aura and fitting it to the evidence he had.

I reserve full judgement on the flow of the story until Battle Grounds comes out. As far as I'm concerned, this is not a full book, it's more like a lengthy installment in a web serial that's going to update in three months.

What he says...

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Is that a pregnant woman's aura is more apparent. it glows more brightly and visibly. That's what he sees. And as you correctly point out, that doesn't mean pregnancy is the only thing that can do this.

I haven't touched it yet. I'm not planning on buying any more of Butcher's books until he releases enough to show me that he's actually serious about finishing the series. I'm really tired of investing in series where the authors just drop them halfway through, and given that Peace Talks took 6 years it's going to take more than one or two books to convince me I should re-invest.

Your call of course but some things to consider...

1) it's been 5 years since Skin Game, not 6.
2) We got a compilation of short stories (which are canon) in 2018, so that actually makes it 2 years even if you didn't get the stories individually.
3) We're getting 2 books this year, so while there's been a gap technically we'll have gotten three books since 2015.
4) We got two comic series as well. According to Jim these are canon (Zoo Day specifically references Welcome to the Jungle).
5) He started a new series.
6) Jim's been very open about the real life issues that got in the way of his writing. He: Got divorced, had a significant dental issue (root canal with complications), moved, got engaged, and ran into delays having his new house built. He's been very upfront on his website about these.

He's not George R.R. Martin who for quite a while just said "I'm working on it".

[Rynjin]

Yeah, Butcher's output is not in question, IMO. Just because he wasn't working on a new mainline Dresden book doesn't mean he was ghosting the audience.

The Aeronaut's Windlass was quite good, too.

[Anteros]

Yeah, Butcher's output is not in question, IMO. Just because he wasn't working on a new mainline Dresden book doesn't mean he was ghosting the audience.

The Aeronaut's Windlass was quite good, too.

Well, the thing is...I don't care if he has a ton of output in unrelated projects I don't care about. I care if he's actually going to get around to finishing the ones I'm invested in.

[Rynjin]

Well, the thing is...I don't care if he has a ton of output in unrelated projects I don't care about. I care if he's actually going to get around to finishing the ones I'm invested in.

O...kay? Like, just so long as you recognize you're not the only person he's writing for lol.

[Anteros]

O...kay? Like, just so long as you recognize you're not the only person he's writing for lol.

I never said I was. I said that I personally am not going to buy his books until he shows me he's going to finish the series. That's all.

[Keltest]

I never said I was. I said that I personally am not going to buy his books until he shows me he's going to finish the series. That's all.

Ok, but absent something like a meteor strike selectively targeting all his computers every time he sits down to write, do you have any real reason to believe he isnt going to? He's clearly working on the series as much as he is able, and when he isnt, he is upfront about why. What has he done to earn mistrust?

[TeChameleon]

Huh.

Got it today around noon, finished it a little after midnight (would've been sooner, but it's been a busy day). Enjoyed it, I'm always amused by Dresden and Lara interacting, as neither of them is ever quite sure what to do with the other.

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That being said, yeah, it ended pretty abruptly. Was a little frustrating that so many players were set on stage to end up as pretty much set dressing, too.

Odin/Vadderung being outmuscled by Ethniu makes a certain amount of sense in the setting of the Dresden Files; don't forget that, in order to continue interacting closely with mortals, he sacrificed a fair chunk of his former power.

Mab, on the other hand, felt like a bit of a worfing. Admittedly, we don't really know how she fares taking a straight-up HULK SMASH!... or, well, I guess we do now, namely 'not well'.

... wonder if Ethniu and Corb realize that plain vanilla mortals have been doing underwater nuclear testing for a while now? Or that if the need arose, I'm pretty sure it's still possible to make a nuke with forties-era, hex-proof tech?

[Lord Raziere]

I just read it

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I don't even care if its all left on a cliffhanger, I'm just glad Harry Dresden main books are back its been a while, missed you Dresden you fire-happy snarky wizard.

Though what I notice that between the Titan, McCoy's power, Ferrovax and Vadderung having a staredown, that the power is really starting to rev up. like Ethniu just single-handedly shown that things are starting to get to the real powerful stuff now, and despite all the stuff Harry Dresden went through he is still considered a newbie who hasn't seen the worst of it.

given his life so far? I shudder to think what horrors yet await. though that might just be McCoy's issues talking

but yeah there is a lot of set up in this. I think his association with the White Council is pretty much blown to pieces at this point. traded for Lara's protection. but that might be a moot point given how the whole supernatural world is going to be blown open forcefully for all the world to see. that won't be good.

It seems the plan to deal with Ethniu is basically "lure her in then seal her up in Demonreach". because thats what its going to take. the problem is getting her there.

Harry does a lot of smart now. like not fighting a wizard who completely outclasses him but instead making an ecto-clone to take the loss instead. because there was no way he was winning that one.

can't wait for the next book.

[Dragonus45]

Well, the thing is...I don't care if he has a ton of output in unrelated projects I don't care about. I care if he's actually going to get around to finishing the ones I'm invested in.

I never said I was. I said that I personally am not going to buy his books until he shows me he's going to finish the series. That's all.

Good for you. You going somewhere with this or can those of us still here talk about the books in peace?

[Caledonian]

Considering Mab: remember what time of year it is in this book.

[Dragonus45]

Considering Mab: remember what time of year it is in this book.

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I hadn’t even thought of that, yea. It seems like a lot of effort went into avoiding a fight with her.

[dps]

FWIW,

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I'm not even certain that the person who attacked Etri, got beaten down, rescued by Harry and crew, and is now imprisoned on the island is actually Thomas.

[Keltest]

FWIW,

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I'm not even certain that the person who attacked Etri, got beaten down, rescued by Harry and crew, and is now imprisoned on the island is actually Thomas.

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I mean, its possible, but that makes the Svartalves look all kinds of stupid for not even checking, and leaves the question of where he actually is up in the air. It seems unlikely to me right now.

[dps]

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I mean, its possible, but that makes the Svartalves look all kinds of stupid for not even checking, and leaves the question of where he actually is up in the air. It seems unlikely to me right now.

Yeah, I think it's unlikely, but it's possible.

[lowfyr]

Considering Mab: remember what time of year it is in this book.

And what was used.

[TeChameleon]

FWIW,

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I'm not even certain that the person who attacked Etri, got beaten down, rescued by Harry and crew, and is now imprisoned on the island is actually Thomas.

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Er, except that Harry was in touch with his mind while he was being imprisoned. It would take some doing to hold a deception deep enough to fool Thomas' brother while being subjected to every pain they ever inflicted on anyone else.

[Spike_99]

I reserve full judgement on the flow of the story until Battle Grounds comes out. As far as I'm concerned, this is not a full book, it's more like a lengthy installment in a web serial that's going to update in three months.

That's my feeling exactly.

I listened to the book on the day it came out (took me all frickin' day) and I was a bit underwhelmed. Don't get me wrong, I did enjoy it a lot, but it left so much hanging & unresolved. It was clearly the first half of a 2 part story, so I'm reserving my judgment on Peace Talks until I've had a chance to listen to Battle Ground.

[Velaryon]

Count me in the "reserving final judgment until after Battle Ground" crowd as well.

What was here was good - not Changes or Dead Beat good, but good. But there was so much left hanging, I really feel like I only got half a book.

I think my favorite part was the sparring scene between Butters and Sanya. Not only did it have the most laugh-out-loud funny bits of the whole book, but we learned something cool that I'm sure will have significant ramifications for the future.

One thing I noticed and didn't care for so much though, is that Harry's character development in this book (which is very welcome) unfortunately seems to be coming at the expense of his humor. I feel like Harry's wisecracking was just a tiny fraction of what I expected and wanted it to be.

[Keltest]

Count me in the "reserving final judgment until after Battle Ground" crowd as well.

What was here was good - not Changes or Dead Beat good, but good. But there was so much left hanging, I really feel like I only got half a book.

I think my favorite part was the sparring scene between Butters and Sanya. Not only did it have the most laugh-out-loud funny bits of the whole book, but we learned something cool that I'm sure will have significant ramifications for the future.

One thing I noticed and didn't care for so much though, is that Harry's character development in this book (which is very welcome) unfortunately seems to be coming at the expense of his humor. I feel like Harry's wisecracking was just a tiny fraction of what I expected and wanted it to be.

Harry's ability to wisecrack without ramification is pretty severely diminished in this book, just because of who he's talking to. He cant afford to intentionally agitate most of these people this time around, and the ones he can snark to without repercussion generally shut him down one way or another. Hopefully things will pick up again in the next book now that all the politics have gotten out of the way.

[Velaryon]

Harry's ability to wisecrack without ramification is pretty severely diminished in this book, just because of who he's talking to. He cant afford to intentionally agitate most of these people this time around, and the ones he can snark to without repercussion generally shut him down one way or another. Hopefully things will pick up again in the next book now that all the politics have gotten out of the way.

What you say is true, but nonetheless its absence takes away from my enjoyment of the book. I wish it could have been written in such a way as to avoid this particular problem.

[Dragonus45]

I don't know, I still got some good laughs from the book.

Spoiler: Butters is my hero

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I had to pull over and stop driving for a bit when we found out about Butters' relationship status. God I love that little guy. Or how Bigfoot had social anxiety at a big party

and I also sort of appreciated the idea of Harry growing up enough to not incessantly mouth off when inappropriate enough that I almost didn't notice the lack of humor till you pointed it out.

[GrayDeath]

Just finished a reread within 3 hours.

That shows really how much of the book is window dressing (ahewm, ok, üparty dressing) when the only memorable stuff happens when joking with friends or when "you know what" happens.

Its really more of an Intro to "hopefully the best book in the series" (TM)


Even if it doesnt beat Changes, Dead Beat and Cold Days, coming close is the minimum one expects after 250, pages of setup...

[dps]

I don't know, I still got some good laughs from the book.

Spoiler: Butters is my hero

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I had to pull over and stop driving for a bit when we found out about Butters' relationship status. God I love that little guy. Or how Bigfoot had social anxiety at a big party

and I also sort of appreciated the idea of Harry growing up enough to not incessantly mouth off when inappropriate enough that I almost didn't notice the lack of humor till you pointed it out.

There's still plenty of humor, only this time Harry's on the receiving end of it, such as Thomas' "didn't anyone ever have this talk with you" line.