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  1. - Top - End - #61
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    DwarfClericGuy

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    Default Re: Jim Butcher's Peace Talks: Dresden Files Book 16 [Contains Spoilers]

    My holy trilogy is Changes, Turn Coat and Small Favor, with Cold Days and Death Masks tied for fourth.

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    Default Re: Jim Butcher's Peace Talks: Dresden Files Book 16 [Contains Spoilers]

    YXou dont see Small Favour up there that often.

    Mind explaining what makes it more appealing to you than say, Dead beat?

    To give Context: my Big ones are Changes, Dead beat and Cold Days, with the enxt 3 or 4 books being so close together I really rarely try to rate them (Ghost Story, proven Guilty, Small Favour and Skin Game).
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    Later: An atom walks into a bar an asks the bartender “Have you seen an electron? I left it in here last night.” The bartender says, “Are you sure?” The atom says, “I’m positive.”

  3. - Top - End - #63
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    DwarfClericGuy

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    Default Re: Jim Butcher's Peace Talks: Dresden Files Book 16 [Contains Spoilers]

    Honestly? I think Dead Beat is bit overrated. Not bad, mind you, I just think it gets so much credit because of the Sue thing that its faults get overlooked. I really liked that it got into the Wardens more than most books, but a few of the plot points involving the Black Court and the Fallen Angels felt kinda forced. Not that he should lose credit for this, but it almost felt like Butcher was trying to make it his most popular book by tossing a highlight reel in there even when it wasn't needed. It also almost felt like a standalone that didn't completely fit into the arc plot of the rest of the series at times.

    Grave Peril was, IMO, the most underrated. The primary antagonist wasn't memorable, but the vampire party remains one of the most pivotal moments of the entire series. The jump from Fool Moon the Grave Peril was incredible- plus Thomas and Michael!

    For Small Favor- the battle at the Shedd Aquarium was one of my favorite scenes in the entire series. Lots of good Kincaid stuff. I felt like the blend of some of the different plotlines (fae, Denarians, etc.) felt more organic than in some of the other mixes. Books that focus on Harry's frenemy status with Marcone get a bonus too. The weakest part was the 50+ pages of the midlevel Gruffs chasing Harry through a building. I liked the subway Hob battle mostly because it felt like gaming.

    Least favorites are the first two and the pornomancer one.

  4. - Top - End - #64
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    Default Re: Jim Butcher's Peace Talks: Dresden Files Book 16 [Contains Spoilers]

    Quote Originally Posted by Sloanzilla View Post
    Not that he should lose credit for this, but it almost felt like Butcher was trying to make it his most popular book by tossing a highlight reel in there even when it wasn't needed. It also almost felt like a standalone that didn't completely fit into the arc plot of the rest of the series at times.
    So I don’t entirely agree with your assessment, but it’s worth noting that that was his first hardback in the series which meant there were certain pressures for how he wrote it.
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  5. - Top - End - #65
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    DwarfClericGuy

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    Default Re: Jim Butcher's Peace Talks: Dresden Files Book 16 [Contains Spoilers]

    The portion of White Knight in the Deeps probably deserves some special mention too, IMO.

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    Default Re: Jim Butcher's Peace Talks: Dresden Files Book 16 [Contains Spoilers]

    My problem with Grave Peril is that aside from the amazing Party (all that foreshadowing) its "Harry tries to explain to his Girlfriend/Susan does dumb things".

    It suffers as much as White Night in that I rate both barely better than 1 and 2 because they are each effectively 2 novellas, a ****ty and a great one.


    Small Favour...se thats the one that felt too forced for my tastes.
    bad thing ahpoppens, is revealed to be caused by another bad thing, oh and unrelated guys chase him, oh noes, another bad thing!"

    Aquarium part and finale, great, rest mediocre.


    Why I like Dead Beat so much is, interestingly, NOT Sue, but the reveils regarding Sheila, the Black magic bad Guys and most importantly, how he from this moment on effectively has a Nuclear Option....but doesnt use it (if you want to read a Good harry With God Power, google for Endless Pantheon on FFNet. Could in parts be from Butcher himself^^.


    Also coming from the recen Reread I must say that Skin Game actually was better than I first thought, hence the above post. Before that it was barely on Summer Knight Level on "The List" ^^


    Now, if only it was the 1dt of October now ^^
    A neutron walks into a bar and says, “How much for a beer?” The bartender says, “For you? No charge.”

    01010100011011110010000001100010011001010010000001 10111101110010001000000110111001101111011101000010 00000111010001101111001000000110001001100101001011 100010111000101110

    Later: An atom walks into a bar an asks the bartender “Have you seen an electron? I left it in here last night.” The bartender says, “Are you sure?” The atom says, “I’m positive.”

  7. - Top - End - #67
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    GreataxeFighterGuy

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    Default Re: Jim Butcher's Peace Talks: Dresden Files Book 16 [Contains Spoilers]

    Quote Originally Posted by GrayDeath View Post
    My problem with Grave Peril is that aside from the amazing Party (all that foreshadowing) its "Harry tries to explain to his Girlfriend/Susan does dumb things".
    Yeah, I know it's probably not a popular opinion, but Susan is probably one of my least favorite characters, not just in the Dresden Files, but in all of fantasy, and how stupidly she behaves in Grave Peril is the main reason why. That said, Grave Peril isn't my least favorite in the series--that would probably be Blood Rites, though I gotta love a vampire being impaled by a frozen turkey.

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    DwarfClericGuy

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    Default Re: Jim Butcher's Peace Talks: Dresden Files Book 16 [Contains Spoilers]

    Speaking of Blood Rites- I have a question from Brief Cases.

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    I thought losing your virginity basically decided whether or not you became a White Court (Lust) vampire. If you love the person, you don't, if you don't love the person, you do and the person dies. Connie seemed to love the Bigfoot's son guy, but she stayed a "potential vampire" afterwards. I know the anomaly in this case was that Bigfoot Jr. had so much of an aura that it didn't kill him- but that would not seem to interfere with the love or not love variable?


    Susan was NOT a good character, but the introduction of Thomas and Michael as well as the vampire party pump's the book's rating up quite a bit, IMO.

    Skin Game is great! Probably the best job of "bringing all the details together in one book" of the entire series. My only two complaints were 1. that the previous book introduced this huge world of outsiders etc. and then the focus of Skin Game was pretty narrow again and 2. Marcone didn't seem totally like Marcone. I felt like the mutual respect he and Harry had developed for each other suddenly vanished without explanation.

  9. - Top - End - #69
    Eldritch Horror in the Playground Moderator
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    Default Re: Jim Butcher's Peace Talks: Dresden Files Book 16 [Contains Spoilers]

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    Presumably, they didn't love each other during their 'first time', it was a lusty hookup at a party or something? So Connie became a full-blooded WC vampire upon her first feeding, but Erwin had so much life energy to spare that he survived anyways. So they kept dating, and apparently fell in love eventually. But I'd have to re-read the Bigfoot story trilogy to be sure.

  10. - Top - End - #70
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    DwarfClericGuy

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    Default Re: Jim Butcher's Peace Talks: Dresden Files Book 16 [Contains Spoilers]

    Spoiler: Brief Cases Response
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    But if she is full fledged now, wouldn't she have burned up due to having intimate contact with someone she loves? My initial perception was that the switch hadn't been flipped yet either way, for some reason. I suppose it is possible that she's caught in some torpor- she wasn't in love with the first person she had sex with, so she didn't "cure" being a vampire- but she also has yet to kill someone by sex- so she's not a full blooded. I hope there is a fourth Bigfoot story at some point that explains this.

    Also, everyone should read Brief Cases before Peace Talks, since it provides a LOT of backstory.

  11. - Top - End - #71
    Eldritch Horror in the Playground Moderator
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    Default Re: Jim Butcher's Peace Talks: Dresden Files Book 16 [Contains Spoilers]

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    Yeah, I don't know what is up with that bit. They're an odd anomaly in that way, someone should ask Jim about that.

  12. - Top - End - #72
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    Default Re: Jim Butcher's Peace Talks: Dresden Files Book 16 [Contains Spoilers]

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    Assuming that Justine really is having Thomas' child, we may learn more about it in subsequent books in the main series as well.

    Anyway, i kind of assumed that the whites are similar to the reds in that it is the act of feeding somebody to death that cements them as vampires. After all, we know now that even immature vampires have a Hunger spirit, even if it doesnt surface until late puberty, and that it does feed, to a point. So it cant be the act of feeding in and of itself that triggers the permanent change.
    “Evil is evil. Lesser, greater, middling, it's all the same. Proportions are negotiated, boundaries blurred. I'm not a pious hermit, I haven't done only good in my life. But if I'm to choose between one evil and another, then I prefer not to choose at all.”

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    Eldritch Horror in the Playground Moderator
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    Default Re: Jim Butcher's Peace Talks: Dresden Files Book 16 [Contains Spoilers]

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    From the microfiction, Connie doesn't apparently know either. She's in love with Erwin, but doesn't get burned. His theory is that it's not the human part of his heritage that she feeds on, but I don't know how that would matter.

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    Default Re: Jim Butcher's Peace Talks: Dresden Files Book 16 [Contains Spoilers]

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    Thomas and Justine had a long relationship before he finally became unable to touch her. It's clear that a lot of the things we call 'love' aren't able to injure White Court Vampires. I firmly believe Connie and Irwin care a great deal about each other, but they haven't developed the deep, mature, and potentially self-sacrificial love that hurts the Whamps.
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  15. - Top - End - #75
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    Default Re: Jim Butcher's Peace Talks: Dresden Files Book 16 [Contains Spoilers]

    Spoiler: More on White Court Inductions
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    We have Inari for comparison. The assumption was that she and Bobby were in love, so after they made love the demon inside of her was killed for good. Connie has vamped out more than Inari ever did, but she never formally punched her card. So I guess maybe she's something like a White Court version of Susan now? Considering the fact that Thomas' vampire status will probably be important soon - I hope Connie comes back as a character.

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    Default Re: Jim Butcher's Peace Talks: Dresden Files Book 16 [Contains Spoilers]

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    Probably the "not 100% Human" Part, that seems to shut down any and all "Pure Human Problems/Awesomeness" in Butchers Setting, one of the few things I dont like, a bit too much "Yes, natural Human all the way" and "Nope, 3.4%, yyou`re free mosnter food" at times.

    Oh, and I only skimmed it back at a friends, is anything beside Mollys and Carlos Interactiona ctually important te read in Brief Cases?
    prolly not gonna get my hands on it till October, friend is overseas, and if it is I`ll prolly gonny buy it :)

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    01010100011011110010000001100010011001010010000001 10111101110010001000000110111001101111011101000010 00000111010001101111001000000110001001100101001011 100010111000101110

    Later: An atom walks into a bar an asks the bartender “Have you seen an electron? I left it in here last night.” The bartender says, “Are you sure?” The atom says, “I’m positive.”

  17. - Top - End - #77
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    DwarfClericGuy

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    Default Re: Jim Butcher's Peace Talks: Dresden Files Book 16 [Contains Spoilers]

    I felt like it would have helped with some of the dramatic tension- I can think of three different instances where my emotional response would have been greater if I'd read Brief Cases before Peace Talks.

    Also, we learn some really interesting stuff about one of Marcone's employees.

  18. - Top - End - #78
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    GreataxeFighterGuy

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    Default Re: Jim Butcher's Peace Talks: Dresden Files Book 16 [Contains Spoilers]

    Quote Originally Posted by Sloanzilla View Post
    Spoiler: More on White Court Inductions
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    We have Inari for comparison. The assumption was that she and Bobby were in love, so after they made love the demon inside of her was killed for good. Connie has vamped out more than Inari ever did, but she never formally punched her card. So I guess maybe she's something like a White Court version of Susan now? Considering the fact that Thomas' vampire status will probably be important soon - I hope Connie comes back as a character.
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    According to the microfiction, she and Irwin are planning a move to Chicago, so it seems likely that they'll both be back.

  19. - Top - End - #79
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    Default Re: Jim Butcher's Peace Talks: Dresden Files Book 16 [Contains Spoilers]

    Y'all are talking about Microfiction? Is this canon stuff Butcher's written? And where might one find it? Thanks!
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    Default Re: Jim Butcher's Peace Talks: Dresden Files Book 16 [Contains Spoilers]

    Quote Originally Posted by Artemis97 View Post
    Y'all are talking about Microfiction? Is this canon stuff Butcher's written? And where might one find it? Thanks!
    It's posted on his website, so, yeah, it's canon.

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    Default Re: Jim Butcher's Peace Talks: Dresden Files Book 16 [Contains Spoilers]

    Finally got around to reading it. And... mixed feelings? Time for some assorted ramblings.

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    A lot of it just felt a bit... undeveloped? Like, it kind of tries to do too much stuff in one book and didn't have time to develop a lot of it, even with splitting in two books. A lot of the character moments feel short. A lot of characters sort of walk on stage for one scene and then off again. A lot of names checked that don't do much just to remind us they were there. (Ivy, Odin, Grey).That's probably the main fault.

    Then there's tone. Not enough snark and humour, really? Dresden plays it all entirely too straight. This book needed a few more character moments I think. Not breaks, as such, that would break the energy. But it felt kind of lifeless, for a Dresden book.

    Which also ties into the stakes for me. The big battles and wham moments of this series often felt so big because they involved characters we know intimately. By Changes, we know exactly how far Dresden might go and then we see him go further than that.

    And finally... Dresden's power level. Sure, he can fight McCoy. I can see that working. But then he just... completely curbstomps Laura and a Valkyrie. When, exactly, did he get so powerful with the Intellectus? Thinking back to Cold Days, it didn't remotely allow him to do anything as strong as just swallowing people into the Earth. If he can do this this casually, why not just swallow any Denarians, cultists, what have you who try to use his island?

    And why is he solving all his problems with mostly violence and power? He used to fight smarter than this. Yes, yes, Winter Knight, but he's a detective too, dammit. His brother is obviously set up and someone is a traitor, and he's not even thinking about it? Who are you and what did you do with our Professional Wizard? (The Doppelgänger was good, but felt not really foreshadowed enough. We didn't know something like this was possible.)

    With a bit more space, we could have a few chapters on the Party. People talking. A few characters moments. And the case of Thomas being forced into assassination could easily be a book by itself, without also the Fomorians and the White Council kicking Harry out. In the end, we get... one plot thread that didn't get past the prologue (the Titan), one that is mentioned and doesn't seem to have any effect (Council) and one that Dresden just bullies through without even thinking about what it actually means (Thomas).


    Huh. That came out sounding a lot more negative than I thought it would. I didn't really hate this book. Honest. There's a lot of good stuff.
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  22. - Top - End - #82
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    Default Re: Jim Butcher's Peace Talks: Dresden Files Book 16 [Contains Spoilers]

    Quote Originally Posted by Eldan View Post
    Finally got around to reading it. And... mixed feelings? Time for some assorted ramblings.

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    A lot of it just felt a bit... undeveloped? Like, it kind of tries to do too much stuff in one book and didn't have time to develop a lot of it, even with splitting in two books. A lot of the character moments feel short. A lot of characters sort of walk on stage for one scene and then off again. A lot of names checked that don't do much just to remind us they were there. (Ivy, Odin, Grey).That's probably the main fault.

    Then there's tone. Not enough snark and humour, really? Dresden plays it all entirely too straight. This book needed a few more character moments I think. Not breaks, as such, that would break the energy. But it felt kind of lifeless, for a Dresden book.

    Which also ties into the stakes for me. The big battles and wham moments of this series often felt so big because they involved characters we know intimately. By Changes, we know exactly how far Dresden might go and then we see him go further than that.

    And finally... Dresden's power level. Sure, he can fight McCoy. I can see that working. But then he just... completely curbstomps Laura and a Valkyrie. When, exactly, did he get so powerful with the Intellectus? Thinking back to Cold Days, it didn't remotely allow him to do anything as strong as just swallowing people into the Earth. If he can do this this casually, why not just swallow any Denarians, cultists, what have you who try to use his island?

    And why is he solving all his problems with mostly violence and power? He used to fight smarter than this. Yes, yes, Winter Knight, but he's a detective too, dammit. His brother is obviously set up and someone is a traitor, and he's not even thinking about it? Who are you and what did you do with our Professional Wizard? (The Doppelgänger was good, but felt not really foreshadowed enough. We didn't know something like this was possible.)

    With a bit more space, we could have a few chapters on the Party. People talking. A few characters moments. And the case of Thomas being forced into assassination could easily be a book by itself, without also the Fomorians and the White Council kicking Harry out. In the end, we get... one plot thread that didn't get past the prologue (the Titan), one that is mentioned and doesn't seem to have any effect (Council) and one that Dresden just bullies through without even thinking about what it actually means (Thomas).


    Huh. That came out sounding a lot more negative than I thought it would. I didn't really hate this book. Honest. There's a lot of good stuff.
    Spoiler: Demonreach's Strength
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    Dresden mentions in the opening of Skin Game that he's been studying the defenses of Demonreach and that, should any outsiders or what have you attempt to breach the island again, he would be able to completely and utterly shut them down almost effortlessly, single handed save for the island's help. Its a result of his year idling on the island.
    “Evil is evil. Lesser, greater, middling, it's all the same. Proportions are negotiated, boundaries blurred. I'm not a pious hermit, I haven't done only good in my life. But if I'm to choose between one evil and another, then I prefer not to choose at all.”

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    Default Re: Jim Butcher's Peace Talks: Dresden Files Book 16 [Contains Spoilers]

    Ah, fair enough.
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    Default Re: Jim Butcher's Peace Talks: Dresden Files Book 16 [Contains Spoilers]

    From the Reddit, best quote in hindsight:
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    "Once" I said, "Just once, would it kill you to let security protocol slide?" [To Austri]
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    Default Re: Jim Butcher's Peace Talks: Dresden Files Book 16 [Contains Spoilers]

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    Upon consideration, i do have to wonder if the plot thread with the White Council isnt actually a deliberate dud to maybe show that the Senior Council and the older generation of wizards are starting to simply become... old and irrelevant, basically. Its been mentioned a few times in the past that Dresden is actually pretty popular with most of the younger wizards, his own generation basically, and a lot of the old guard are/were getting eliminated due to the war with the Red Court. Ebenezer is evidently meant to be seen as settled in his ways and unwilling to bend even when it comes to other peoples judgements for this book, and he's supposed to be the most radical and flexible member of the Senior Council. Harry, meanwhile, is becoming a role model and authority figure whether he likes it or not, and has to figure out how to deal with that, especially given the lines he's crossed that he promised himself he wouldnt.
    “Evil is evil. Lesser, greater, middling, it's all the same. Proportions are negotiated, boundaries blurred. I'm not a pious hermit, I haven't done only good in my life. But if I'm to choose between one evil and another, then I prefer not to choose at all.”

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    Default Re: Jim Butcher's Peace Talks: Dresden Files Book 16 [Contains Spoilers]

    Quote Originally Posted by Artemis97 View Post
    So Peace Talks came out on Tuesday, and I finished it in about 24 hours, which is something I haven't done since when? My first read throughs of Harry Potter after they were released? Maybe a new Animorphs book before that? Gosh it's been a while since I've just speeded through a book like this. I don't know if that was just a measure of my excitement, the pacing, or maybe because it's kind of technically half a book?
    Butcher paces Dresden Files very fast. They're quick, easy reads, which is pretty nice sometimes. I also blew through it.

    I think it was a fun read, over all, but if I didn't know there's another book coming out later this year, I'd be very dissatisfied with the ending. Lots of loose ends. Why the heck did Thomas do what he did? What's McCoy's deal against the vampires? What were the knights of the cross just doing hanging around?

    Lots of stuff I hope gets wrapped up in Battle Grounds. But for now, what we've got is Peace Talks. Let's discuss it!
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    Thomas was, IMO, mind controlled, or impersonated, or geased, etc. It's going to turn out to be not primarily Thomas's fault, but some other entity that is a fairly signficant threat. The "everything goes wrong" style of Dresden Files indicates that the planned invasion is...not the ONLY thing about to go wrong, merely a very large one.

    This seems like it obviously needs investigation, but he's had roughly no time to do that.

    I also expect the dark council to start making some grand plays. And to be in league with/suborned by the Outsiders making a play for the Outer Gates.


    People hanging out just being people is something Dresden tosses in occasionally just cause. It's good, slows the pace down juuuust a bit from the breakneck style it's usually at, and lets things breathe a second. I agree that the specific things they were doing are certainly foreshadowing.
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    Default Re: Jim Butcher's Peace Talks: Dresden Files Book 16 [Contains Spoilers]

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    Outsiders are already involved. Mab mentions she can't commit forces to the defence of Chicago because there is an unprecedentedly huge attack on the Gates.
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    Default Re: Jim Butcher's Peace Talks: Dresden Files Book 16 [Contains Spoilers]

    Quote Originally Posted by Eldan View Post
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    Outsiders are already involved. Mab mentions she can't commit forces to the defence of Chicago because there is an unprecedentedly huge attack on the Gates.
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    Certainly. But Im guessing it'll end up having had at least some Outsiders here, pulling the strings, all along. Possibly with a tie in back to the one waaay back at the start of his career. He Who Walks Behind or whatever.

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    Default Re: Jim Butcher's Peace Talks: Dresden Files Book 16 [Contains Spoilers]

    Quote Originally Posted by Anteros View Post
    I haven't touched it yet. I'm not planning on buying any more of Butcher's books until he releases enough to show me that he's actually serious about finishing the series. I'm really tired of investing in series where the authors just drop them halfway through, and given that Peace Talks took 6 years it's going to take more than one or two books to convince me I should re-invest.
    To give Butcher some credit a lot happened to him in his personal life during those 6 years, including a divorce and a rather big move, both of which would drastically impact one's ability to write.

    My thoughts on the book is that it definitely is half of a whole, and what annoyed me more is that it's really obvious about it? I noticed at times where it seemed like something was edited out because there was going to be a second book followup quickly. Battle Grounds also IMO has to be really long to justify 2 books otherwise it's just the publisher being a greedy ass.
    "A man once said do not meddle in the affairs of wizards for they are subtle and quick to anger. Tolkien had half of that right. **** subtlety." ~ Harry Dresden

  30. - Top - End - #90
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    Default Re: Jim Butcher's Peace Talks: Dresden Files Book 16 [Contains Spoilers]

    Quote Originally Posted by Keltest View Post
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    Assuming that Justine really is having Thomas' child, we may learn more about it in subsequent books in the main series as well.
    This is just some rampant speculation here, but...
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    I mean, yeah we'll almost certainly learn more about White Court mechanics, but for both this and Thomas' whole deal, we've already been given an easy out, right?

    Waldo's lightsaber passes harmlessly through
    (innocent) humans and kills monsters. White Court vampires, as we understand them, are born human with a monster living inside them. We're just waiting for Harry and Waldo to have a chance to realize it.

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