MitD XV: The Other Dark One

[b_jonas]

as per Redcloak's "big thick line up the middle" question about MitD's tactical map of the landscape between Azure City and the Hobgoblins' mountain redoubt in comic 415a

Hmm… this is apparently a bonus strip that's actually mentioned in the first posts, but I never noticed it there. I'll add a stub entry to section 6c. Everyone, please tell me about other appearances in books that I haven't bought, especially books 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6.

[Squire Doodad]

Ouch!
It gives me the idea for MitD XVI: "But it is a violation of all that is pure and beautiful!"

But what about MitD XVI: Now With 50% More Half-Dragon?

[Peelee]

But what about MitD XVI: Now With 50% More Half-Dragon?

I'd vote for it.

[Squire Doodad]

I actually meant to bring it up...two threads ago, but I forgot about it. I'd like it to go into the pile for thread 16 though. (Grey Wolf, when MitD gets revealed can we get a final honorary thread naming contest?)

Moving on, so the worldsnake would be able to fit the size and strength requirements given its unique growth and incredible might, while raising questions about mind-control immunity and the escape. I would give it the circus scene as a freebie, some depictions of it are really bizarre.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

I actually meant to bring it up...two threads ago, but I forgot about it.
Moving on, so the worldsnake would be able to fit the size and strength requirements given its unique growth and incredible might, while raising questions about mind-control immunity and the escape. I would give it the circus scene as a freebie, some depictions of it are really bizarre.

The snake is large enough to envelope the world, and barely holds its own against Thor (who has, what, ~60 STR?). If shrunk to MitD size, it would most almost certainly NOT have enough strength, as far as I can tell.

GW

[Squire Doodad]

The snake is large enough to envelope the world, and barely holds its own against Thor (who has, what, ~60 STR?). If shrunk to MitD size, it would most almost certainly NOT have enough strength, as far as I can tell.

GW

I'd say there's a difference between in-comic/DnD Thor and {scrubbed}, but that might be leaning on the forum rules a bit...

[Grey_Wolf_c]

I'd say there's a difference between in-comic/DnD Thor and {scrub the post, scrub the quote}, but that might be leaning on the forum rules a bit...

OK, then we are in no position to evaluate its strength at all, unless it has some D&D stats somewhere. As with any other ludicrously large creature unexplainably small enough to be MitD, I am very skeptical that its strength is up to snuff.

Grey Wolf

[Peelee]

I'd say there's a difference between in-comic/DnD Thor and {scrubbed}, but that might be leaning on the forum rules a bit...

The Mod on the Silver Mountain: It absolutely would be, and I recommend against that line of discussion. Please keep all references relegated to clearly fictional versions, such as D&D versions.

[dancrilis]

OK, then we are in no position to evaluate its strength at all, unless it has some D&D stats somewhere.

The closest creature I can think of to a world devouring serpent in DnD would be Dendar the Night Serpent, also known as 'Eater of the World' - but she is only 300 feet long and has a Strength of 48.
It should perhaps be noted that this is her when she is being constantly hunted by people who want to make her use her energy so that she doesn't get big and end the world, so final form might be a lot bigger - still not a good fit for the MitD from my reading.

[Ruck]

But what about MitD XVI: Now With 50% More Half-Dragon?

I'd vote for it.

In 2025 or so I'm going to end up proposing "Still Protean After All These Years."

[Grey_Wolf_c]

The Mod on the Silver Mountain: It absolutely would be, and I recommend against that line of discussion. Please keep all references relegated to clearly fictional versions, such as D&D versions.

People,

In view that all manner of deities are proposed regularly enough I added them as a group to the frequently suggested section, and this has, and probably will keep being an issue, I am considering adding an entry to the inappropriate topics list in the thread rules. It'd be something along the lines of "no deities without stats"*, possibly with a bit of an explanation why, in the same way I did for the copyright issue in very similar circumstances to these. How would we all feel about this change?

(I've also reached out to the mods for guidance, so this might become moot)

Grey Wolf

*ETA: note that this would include clearly fictional deities, such as the OotS Western Pantheon. This is quite on purpose, because too often, we turn to the RL deities that inspired them to figure out what they can and cannot do, which is what has got us in trouble.

[Jasdoif]

The snake is large enough to envelope the world, and barely holds its own against Thor (who has, what, ~60 STR?). If shrunk to MitD size, it would most almost certainly NOT have enough strength, as far as I can tell.

Per Deities and Demigods, Thor has Str 92 (which includes the effect of a fancy artifact belt that doubles his Strength score).

And weirdly enough, I am aware of a fictionalized young version (from another game, much like the carbosilicate amorph is from another webcomic); it's still sixty feet long. (The whole "MitD isn't something the Giant made up" makes this possibly-not-irrelevant)

[Keltest]

Im all for erring on the side of not antagonizing the mods. I think "If it doesnt have a stat block, we dont even have the discussion." seems like a good rule of thumb with regards to deities. Doubly so because theres very little discussion to be had, given that being a deity in and of itself provides a number of abilities that are extremely problematic to reconcile.

[Charybdis136]

People,

In view that all manner of deities are proposed regularly enough I added them as a group to the frequently suggested section, and this has, and probably will keep being an issue, I am considering adding an entry to the inappropriate topics list in the thread rules. It'd be something along the lines of "no deities without stats"*, possibly with a bit of an explanation why, in the same way I did for the copyright issue in very similar circumstances to these. How would we all feel about this change?

(I've also reached out to the mods for guidance, so this might become moot)

Grey Wolf

*ETA: note that this would include clearly fictional deities, such as the OotS Western Pantheon. This is quite on purpose, because too often, we turn to the RL deities that inspired them to figure out what they can and cannot do, which is what has got us in trouble.

I am for anything that helps avoid any unintentional breaking of forum rules. Some people do not remember every rule so it never hurts to remind everyone.

[Yendor]

Hmm… this is apparently a bonus strip that's actually mentioned in the first posts, but I never noticed it there. I'll add a stub entry to section 6c. Everyone, please tell me about other appearances in books that I haven't bought, especially books 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6.

Here's the Monster's one appearance in Snips, Snails, and Dragon Tales, from the commentary page of the "Edition Wars" segment (in the context of Fourth Edition):

Spoiler

Show

Sir — your necromantic aura! You have to turn it off!
My necro-what, now?
I don't even know if I'm affected by that. Have I even been updated?

The MitD is in his box, but there's nothing else remarkable about the scene.

[b_jonas]

Here's the Monster's one appearance in Snips, Snails, and Dragon Tales, from the commentary page of the "Edition Wars" segment (in the context of Fourth Edition):

Spoiler

Show

Sir — your necromantic aura! You have to turn it off!
My necro-what, now?
I don't even know if I'm affected by that. Have I even been updated?

The MitD is in his box, but there's nothing else remarkable about the scene.

Thank you, is there a page number for this too?

[Hardcore]

People,

In view that all manner of deities are proposed regularly enough I added them as a group to the frequently suggested section, and this has, and probably will keep being an issue, I am considering adding an entry to the inappropriate topics list in the thread rules. It'd be something along the lines of "no deities without stats"*, possibly with a bit of an explanation why, in the same way I did for the copyright issue in very similar circumstances to these. How would we all feel about this change?

(I've also reached out to the mods for guidance, so this might become moot)

Grey Wolf

*ETA: note that this would include clearly fictional deities, such as the OotS Western Pantheon. This is quite on purpose, because too often, we turn to the RL deities that inspired them to figure out what they can and cannot do, which is what has got us in trouble.

Let the mods' scrub when they feel it is warranted🙄, but better that than we do the job for them.
A reminder, that talk about deities could break the board rules, would be ok with me however.

[Mightymosy]

Here's the Monster's one appearance in Snips, Snails, and Dragon Tales, from the commentary page of the "Edition Wars" segment (in the context of Fourth Edition):

Spoiler

Show

Sir — your necromantic aura! You have to turn it off!
My necro-what, now?
I don't even know if I'm affected by that. Have I even been updated?

The MitD is in his box, but there's nothing else remarkable about the scene.

Wait a second! Does this mean MitD MUST HAVE BEEN in a D&d edition prior to the one the OotS story takes place in?

[Vendanna]

Here's the Monster's one appearance in Snips, Snails, and Dragon Tales, from the commentary page of the "Edition Wars" segment (in the context of Fourth Edition):

Spoiler

Show

Sir — your necromantic aura! You have to turn it off!
My necro-what, now?
I don't even know if I'm affected by that. Have I even been updated?

The MitD is in his box, but there's nothing else remarkable about the scene.

The MitD also appears in the monster minis alongside Team evil (included the bugbear lady which is medium size like Redcloak (redcloak is the only medium size goblin from the monster minis)

MitD incidentally requires two coins for it's monster mini, like other Large creatures, so that would discard him to be of medium size.

[Yendor]

Thank you, is there a page number for this too?

Page 50, I think.

Wait a second! Does this mean MitD MUST HAVE BEEN in a D&d edition prior to the one the OotS story takes place in?

My interpretation is that the MitD exists in some edition before 4e.

[Peelee]

Wait a second! Does this mean MitD MUST HAVE BEEN in a D&d edition prior to the one the OotS story takes place in?

I interpret that to mean he exists in the strip, which is explicitly 3.5, and thus could be updated to 4e.

So, quick example, let's say he's Genie from Aladdin. The Giant would introduce him into the strip, which is in 3.5. Genie now has 3.5 stats. In a 4e version of the comic, he could ask if he was updated, despite not being in any D&D edition previously.

[Jasdoif]

Here's the Monster's one appearance in Snips, Snails, and Dragon Tales, from the commentary page of the "Edition Wars" segment (in the context of Fourth Edition):

Spoiler

Show

Sir — your necromantic aura! You have to turn it off!
My necro-what, now?
I don't even know if I'm affected by that. Have I even been updated?

The MitD is in his box, but there's nothing else remarkable about the scene.

Thank you, is there a page number for this too?

It appears opposite page 1, "The Amorphous Shape of Things to Come", of the "Edition Wars: Invaders from the Fourth Dimension" series in the book. (There's no book-wide page numbering; the series are numbered by which strip in the series they are, while the Dragon magazine reprints are numbered by which issue of Dragon they originally appeared in)

[Darth Paul]

MitD incidentally requires two coins for it's monster mini, like other Large creatures, so that would discard him to be of medium size.

Good point. At the same time, he could be a young creature from a Huge species, as many have been theorizing. And would a Huge creature mini take up more space? I'm unfamiliar with them.

Im all for erring on the side of not antagonizing the mods. I think "If it doesnt have a stat block, we dont even have the discussion." seems like a good rule of thumb with regards to deities. Doubly so because theres very little discussion to be had, given that being a deity in and of itself provides a number of abilities that are extremely problematic to reconcile.

I tend to agree with Keltest, in fact I couldn't put it better.

[Magesmiley]

I want to make a case for MitD being a Crystal Dragon (MM2 page 81)

Why a Crystal Dragon? Let's start with the creatures' description:

"Crystal dragons are the friendliest of the gem dragons. They are always curious about the world, so they enthusiastically converse with willing visitors."
(MM2, p.81)
MitD is extremely talkative. With everyone. We see this again and again.

"A crystal dragon rarely instigates a fight without cause. If a visitor is intriguing or seems friendly, the dragon attempts a conversation; otherwise it tries to avoid a meeting. If visitors dare to attack, however, a crystal dragon does not hesitate to respond."
(MM2, p.82)
This makes me think of the meeting with Miko, Belkar, and Haley. This almost fits the MitD's reaction perfectly.

There is also the glowy eyes MitD has when using its powers.
It's worth comparing the way his eyes are done in 661 against the way Laurin's eyes appear in 913.
I think that we're seeing psionic abilities at work. Some powers have an olfactory displaytoo (possibly accounting for a smell).

Psionics
When using psionics, the gem dragons have levels of psion rather than sorcerer. This makes a big difference in several places. Most notably when 5th-level powers come into play.
There is a way to explain a lot of effects using psionics. MitD also might have some levels of psion, which would stack and possibly account for a smaller dragon size compared to powers.

One other observation... I think there is a glitch in the Caster Level portion of the MM2 entry for the crystal dragons... all of the others have 1st and 3d level casting, but the crystal one starts at 5th. Assuming that this is correct, it would give 1st-level casting at juvenile age.

Let's tackle the Sections at the top of the thread one at a time:

1a. Directly from Rich
MM2, being originally a 3.0 product, is definitely within the published material available at the time.

Big game hunters
From the description of the crystal dragon: "Crystal dragons prefer the Elemental Plane of Air, but they sometimes build incredible ice palaces atop high, cold mountain peaks on the Meterial Plane...."
So, not native to the jungle, explaining the big game hunters.

Redcloak knowing what it is.
Redcloak does know what psionics are. He referenced this when doing research at one point. He also clearly has a bunch of ranks in Knowledge (arcana) due to understnading the ritual, which is the skill for identifying dragons.

Xykon's reaction
See the 1b. Circus Scene below (False sensory Input)

Mind-controlling.
Dragons are known for eating things. And have a mind that can be controlled.

Darkness around MitD
Darkness wouldn't impede a dragon's blindsight.

Enjoying the sunshine
Blue skies and fresh air are part of this quote. Crystal dragons prefer the Elemental Plane of air.

1b The Circus Scene
My explanation, at its core, relies on a couple of psionic powers

Destiny Dissonance (Seer 1)
While this is a touch power, it is one of the very few ways that I've found to sicken a creature. And... there is the Reach Power feat (Dragon 287 page 55).
Remember the circus visitor who was getting sick? This could account for for our sick circus visitor. Or for that matter, any of the other patrons who were getting queasy.

False Sensory Input (Telepath 3)
This could be another way to explain the circus scene. And why different creatures perceive MitD differently. They're effectively being made to see different things. And could explain why the robed guy not recognizing MitD.

Assuming that we have at least a young adult, he'd have frightful presence too.

I think that between these three that it is possible to account for the crowd reactions.

1c The Escape
Psionic Teleport and Greater Psionic Teleport are obvious candidates here. There is enough evidence from prior examinations that this could be a teleport. I'm personally a follower of the stray dimensional anchor theory.

1d: The Tower Scene
Depending on the age, juvenile through very old gives a strength in the range of 19 through 33. Which puts it in the reasonable range. There are also a number of telekinetic powers available that could account for this too.

1e: MitD's Alignment
Chaotic neutral, being the crystal dragon's alignment, seems like it fits MitD's actions pretty well. A lot of what he does seems to cause havoc.

1f:MitD's Scores
Strength preciously cited (1d.)
All mental are between mid and upper teens. This is a bit high for the assumed Wisdom, but the behavior could also be due to a young age.
Overall dragons have pretty impressive ability scores.

1g: Not Seeing the Gates
Personally, I chalk this up to the rule of funny.
However... it also it might be accountable by MitD not actually visually seeing the gate due to the Darkness. And it might not look like a gate from a blindsight perspective.

1h. Recognizing MitD
Personally, I'm in favor of the lampshading angle here.
However, it could also be that he has the False Sensory Input power. (Which could also account for smells!)

1i. Recognizing MitD
Dragons are iconic creatures for most fantasy settings. Making it an unusual/rare type of dragon gets us both recognized and not.

1j.Suspicion of MitD's involvvement in the escape
Redcloak wasn't present. He knows what MitD is. Xykon doesn't know what MitD is, which means he probably also wouldn't know much about psionics.

1k. The meaning of Fine Line
Dragons are both made up and made by someone else. They are in the books, but essentially a custom monster the DM has to make.

1l. MitD's Hand
Yep. It's the bucket handle.

1m. MitD's Species Size
A juvenile or young adult crystal dragon is large. The next three sizes are still only huge. Which could make it the right size for the box.

2a. Physical Characteristics
Age
Dragons obnviously can be old enough. And they grow inpower as they get older too. Another reason to roll forward 29 years.

Appearance
The False Sensory Input psionic power can account for the disparity in reactions.

Diet
Dragons are omnivores and can eat almost anything (Draconomicon page 10).

Gender
Dragons have gender.

Head
Dragons fit everything here.

Limbs
Being a quadruped that can also use its forelimbs to hold things and also having a tail fits everything.

Maturity
Dragons are one of the only creatures in the manuals that have different age categories. Crystal Dragons can get bigger as they age too (Gargantuan per MM2, Colossal according to some rules in the Draconomicon).

Personal Odor
Once again, back to the False Sensory Input power and/or powers with an olfactory display.

Size
Juvenile and Young adult Crystal Dragons are only large. Adult through Very old are only Huge. Very young and young are only medium.

Sleep
Dragons do sleep at times.

Weight
Assuming this wasn't a case of moving the plot forward, if MitD had the Hover feat, he could be airborne as Redcloak was moving the box, and not contributing to the weight. A telekinetic power could also be helping too.

2b. Abilities
Attacks
Dragons have some nasty physical attacks. Assuming the flying Miko and Windstrider isn't just humor, There are a few feats that might be able to account for this :Knockback (Races of Stone) and Wingstorm (Savage Species) are a couple of possibilities.
The Telekinetic Thrust power is another possibility.

Defenses
Crystal dragons have DR against magic even at young adult. If he's moved up a few age categories, it gets even higher. Easily enough to ignore a dagger.
Assuming they aren't magical, this works. Dragons also have a fairly high AC, which could account for it too.
And a creature can overcome its own DR, so the papercut is doable.

Earth Cracking
The strongest candidate here is the Shock Wave feat (Draconomicon). I realize that this indicates the tail, not a foot, but it fits well on the effect.
The next best fit would be the Stamp feat (Savage Species) which is nearly identical and does use an appendage. Dragons don't normally have the trample special attack though, which is a prerequisite. Rich might be taking a bit of liberty and deeming the Crush ability to be adequate.

Knowledge
Dragons have a high intelligence. Crystal dragons are psionic, so Hypercognition isn't out of the question, but the high level of it might make it unreasonable unless MitD also had psion levels stacked on.

O'Chul's Escape
Psionic teleport fits here.

Psionics
Clearly I'm advocating psionics for a lot of the effects. They fit. The comparison between Laurin's eyes and MitD's when creating effects is also fairly striking.

Rain
The Control Air power could potentially be used to bring clouds in.

Raising Undead
This proposal doesn't have this capability. MitD doesn't appear to either.

Sight
Assuming that MitD can see out through the darkness, a dragon's keen eyesight would fit. A dragon's Blindsight is of more limited range, so at a distance at least, he couldn't detect an invisible creature.

Speech
This could just be sarcasm on the part of the first of the hunters. Dragons can and do speak.

Shout
Dragons are known for being able to speak loudly. This could well be its Frightful Presence affecting them

Summoning Demon Roaches
Doesn't matter.

Swallow Whole?
Devour rather than swallow. Dragons can eat anything.

2c: Other Characteristics
Categories
Dragon has not been eliminated.

Challenge Rating
Can vary depending on age and any class levels tacked on, however the higher end crystal dragons are in the right range (very old = 18).

Connection to the Astral Plane
Crystal dragons have a planar travel ability. Even if he has never visited it (or used his power), some basic knowledge about it doesn't seem unreasonable, particularly if his parents discussed it. Knowledge (the planes) could account for it too.

Darkness
A dragon's blindisght is another explanation for how to "see" out of it.

Drawing Clues
A dragon fits very well here. They can walk on all fours or sit crouched on its back legs. They also have longer necks.

Environment
A rainforest isn't a crystal dragon's typical locale (inner planes, temperate and cold mountains), but there's no reason one couldn't survive there.

Family
Older dragons are bigger, often much bigger. So his dad would very well be larger, even if MitD is an adult or even very old (huge) - ancient crystal dragons are gargantuan.

Knowledge of MitD
There's a lot of ways to account for this. Knowing he was a dragon vs. a crystal dragon is one of the obvious ones.

Mental Resistance
Dragons can be affected by Mind-Affecting spells.

Reach
Dragons have reach as a tall creature of there size, but if confined to a box wouldn't.

Species
Dragon. Need I say more?

Tracks
He only indicates that they're not hobgoblin or undead Roy. Could be just about anything else.
Another interesting possibility for strange tracks is the Skate psionic power - while it doesn't address tracks specifically, I think that not lifting your feet would do something to the tracks.

2d Abilities, Augmentation: Templates, Class Levels, etc.
These probably aren't needed, depending on the age of the crystal dragon. Dragons always need to be customized by the DM, so picking particular feats isn't an issue really.
If he's a younger crystal dragon though a few levels of psion are probably needed.
Keep in mind too that the Expanded Knowledge feat (Expanded Psionics Handbook) can account for powers not on the telepath's (or psion's) list.


SUMMARY
I think that a Crystal Dragon is a strong candidate that fits essentially everything on the list. A lot can be explained with psionic powers of 5th level or lower, which an old (huge) crystal dragon has. Coupled with a dragon's abilities, and even the monster's description I think it is an extremely strong candidate given MitD's portrayal in the strip.

Thoughts?

[Ruck]

19 strength isn't reasonable for the tower scene at all-- the crystal dragon only has a chance at being strong enough if we assume adult size-- and it's hard to imagine someone saying they'd "never seen anything like" a crystal dragon, especially if it requires psionic powers to do so when MITD's instructions are to just "stand there and get gawked at."

But, then, my thoughts on this are well-documented. As I've said before, I'd really like to see any argument for any species that makes a case for why that species is relevant to the story and not just a mechanical explanation.

[Vendanna]

... SUMMARY
I think that a Crystal Dragon is a strong candidate that fits essentially everything on the list. A lot can be explained with psionic powers of 5th level or lower, which an old (huge) crystal dragon has. Coupled with a dragon's abilities, and even the monster's description I think it is an extremely strong candidate given MitD's portrayal in the strip.

Thoughts?

Well, I may be biased a bit (seeing as my guess from the list of guesses is half dragon (crystal) something (which is a type of dragon) so I have a strong support of your idea. a few points I want to add regarding this.

About "MitD" eyes, looking at the monster minis (dragons particularly) have the nice round eyes when they are very young and young (like the MitD) but past certain age, they "switch" to not round ones (which incidentally we saw the MiTD have shown also on the book "dungeon crawling fools")

Another big point for it to be a dragon (already said it a long time ago) is that for the entirety of Dungeon Crawling fools there was NO DRAGON present in a comic about Dungeons and dragons so I expected the MitD to be one of those at the reveal before Rich decided to make the story longer.

On Start of Darkness, the goblin kids have a "humanoid toy" fighting MitD "dragon" toy with bazillion DR/weird material.

I would like to add to it the Pseudonatural template to it, thou. for some interesting effects to the creature:

*always have max HP, its speed doubles for all move types, +35 Natural armor bonus, +15 insight bonus to attacks, electricity and acid resistance based on HD, Damage reduction about 10-15/epic based on mitd young behavior (I expect btw 15 and 19 Hit dice), Spell resistance on top of that.

A pseudonatural creature substitutes tentacle rake attacks for its melee attacks while in pseudonatural form. These tentacle attacks always use the creature’s best attack bonus. It also gains additional tentacle rake attacks (also at its best attack bonus) as noted on the table below.

Always use the creature best attack bonus <-- goes nicely with the "hit light" game he has with miko on the tower, he is forced to use the best attack bonus even if he doesn't want to.

Alternate form (grotesque tentacle form) which works good for the reactions at the circus.

It also gives extra tentacle attacks on top of it based on HD (between 4 and 5 extra based on my guess of 15-19 Hit dice of a young/juvenile dragon)

Abilities -> Increase from the base creature as follows: Str +22, Con +10, Dex +10, Wisdom +10, Intelligence at least 3.

Dragons on the "large" category have from 19-23 Str unless they are "Red/Gold" variety (25-29) so adding +22 on top of that makes them having 41-45 str or 47-51. which is quite a whoop even if our dragon is only large in size. (Red/gold dragons only get to 41-45 range when they are very old or wyrm)

Challenge rating: young adult 11 +10 for pseudo natural gives a CR of 21 bigger than Red cloak BUT lower than Xykon's

[InvisibleBison]

Unfortunately, there are some serious flaws with the crystal dragon that, in my opinion, preclude it from being MitD.

1b The Circus Scene
My explanation, at its core, relies on a couple of psionic powers
[...]
Assuming that we have at least a young adult, he'd have frightful presence too.

MitD was explicitly not doing anything during the circus scene, so he couldn't have been manifesting any powers. And a dragon's frightful presence certain actions in order to activate, none of which MitD was doing in the circus scene.

1d: The Tower Scene
Depending on the age, juvenile through very old gives a strength in the range of 19 through 33. Which puts it in the reasonable range. There are also a number of telekinetic powers available that could account for this too.

Any crystal dragon strong enough to qualify on pure strength is too large to fit under the umbrella. I don't think psionic powers can be used to explain the tower scene, because they don't constitute hitting. Even if they did, the only power that could possibly explain the scene is telekinetic force, which doesn't constitute hitting as lightly as possible, since it's a third level power.

Psionics
Clearly I'm advocating psionics for a lot of the effects. They fit. The comparison between Laurin's eyes and MitD's when creating effects is also fairly striking.

Redcloak, who knows what MitD is and is a fairly smart guy in general, isn't sure whether or not psionics were in use until long after he met MitD. How could this be if MitD was using psionic powers so frequently?

Also, in the escape scene, the MitD uses powers "he didn't even know he had". Thus, if you think he used psionics there he can't have been using them earlier.

Speech
This could just be sarcasm on the part of the first of the hunters. Dragons can and do speak.

Why would the hunters be sarcastic here? They're perfectly serious throughout the rest of the scene.

[Omomuro]

Hi everyone! This is my first on-topic post in these forums, be kind.

Even as an anon lurker, the evidence- and minutiae-based nature of this thread fascinated me the most and I've learned about a whole lot of esoteric creatures and monsters as a result! I have a clarification I'd like to seek about a proposed (and mostly rejected) candidate, the cute/absolute unit Hollyphant, which is in the indices but to my knowledge has only been discussed in the main body once, +back in the halcyon days of Thread III (I'd link it, but this is literally my second post.)

Its criterion for rejection, besides being too weak even in big form, being too darn cute for the circus scene and there is "can't explain for the escape".

Before I start slapping a Pseudonatural template on an unsuspecting Hollyphant and call things a day, its appearance in the 2003 BoED does say that it has Greater Teleport, which is a better fit than Dimension Door and Plane Shift under some discussions, and more importantly (to my knowledge) predates the codification of the "stray dimensional anchor" theory into the index.

Is there something peculiar to how the Hollyphant uses greater teleport relative to other suggested creatures that stands out, or should the "can't explain the escape" be slightly tweaked or outright changed?

[Qwertystop]

Hi everyone! This is my first on-topic post in these forums, be kind.

Even as an anon lurker, the evidence- and minutiae-based nature of this thread fascinated me the most and I've learned about a whole lot of esoteric creatures and monsters as a result! I have a clarification I'd like to seek about a proposed (and mostly rejected) candidate, the cute/absolute unit Hollyphant, which is in the indices but to my knowledge has only been discussed in the main body once, +back in the halcyon days of Thread III (I'd link it, but this is literally my second post.)

Its criterion for rejection, besides being too weak even in big form, being too darn cute for the circus scene and there is "can't explain for the escape".

Before I start slapping a Pseudonatural template on an unsuspecting Hollyphant and call things a day, its appearance in the 2003 BoED does say that it has Greater Teleport, which is a better fit than Dimension Door and Plane Shift under some discussions, and more importantly (to my knowledge) predates the codification of the "stray dimensional anchor" theory into the index.

Is there something peculiar to how the Hollyphant uses greater teleport relative to other suggested creatures that stands out, or should the "can't explain the escape" be slightly tweaked or outright changed?

That... is a good catch, though I don't think it handles the other issues. Though I guess elephants do look pretty weird if you've never seen them before, compared to most other large land mammals.

[Jasdoif]

Is there something peculiar to how the Hollyphant uses greater teleport relative to other suggested creatures that stands out...?

Being "greater teleport (self and up to 20 pounds of objects only)" precludes using it to teleport other creatures, like O-Chul and Vaarsuvius.