MitD XV: The Other Dark One

[catagent101]

Probably because nearly every new proposal gets shot down by the Circus Scene.

That doesn't seem to be the case? The Xenocrysth got in despite its only qualification for the circus scene being that it looks weird and most of the FBS has no source of nausea besides poor living conditions.

I honestly cannot think of a single example.

There are some examples in the TVTrope's stress vomit page, though your point still seems to stand more or less. It does seem to be more of an anxiety than fear thing (though that does happen and the lines between the two can be pretty blurry).

[Xhosant]

MITD seems to identify as male enough such to form a club with O-Chul which "girls can't join!"

True, but that doesn't prove he's part of a gendered species biologically, which is what I'm desperate for here :P

[Edreyn]

Have Far Realm entities ever been concidered? I don't know about them in detail, but most of them can be both ugly, scary and strangely beautiful. If we take creatures from Lovecraft books as example for possible Far Realm denizens, quite many of them be having super strength, invulnarability and their own magic ways. Syill they usually eat and can reproduce. It's now late, but if someone wants, we can discuss in more detail tommorow.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Have Far Realm entities ever been concidered? I don't know about them in detail, but most of them can be both ugly, scary and strangely beautiful. If we take creatures from Lovecraft books as example for possible Far Realm denizens, quite many of them be having super strength, invulnarability and their own magic ways. Syill they usually eat and can reproduce. It's now late, but if someone wants, we can discuss in more detail tommorow.

Lovecraft creations, both in the form of Call of Cthulhu creatures, and their D&D counterparts have indeed been suggested. Starspawn, for a famous(-y) one most obviously, but also Hunting Horror, which is on the FBS.

GW

[catagent101]

True, but that doesn't prove he's part of a gendered species biologically, which is what I'm desperate for here :P

There's the strip that mentions MiTD's dad.

Or at least that's the primary bugbear in my "OOTS proteans are genderfluid" theory.

[Xhosant]

Again, he(it) seeing his(its) parent as a father isn't as conclusive as I'd like. MitD is many things, a reliable narrator it is not.

[Crusher]

Lovecraft creations, both in the form of Call of Cthulhu creatures, and their D&D counterparts have indeed been suggested. Starspawn, for a famous(-y) one most obviously, but also Hunting Horror, which is on the FBS.

GW

Uvuudaums' are Far Realms denizens as well.

[Lombard]

I think that it might be worthwhile to circle back to the circus scene for some further discussion. That seems to be the primary objection to any new candidate for MitD.

Why do I think it's worthwhile? Because there seems to be a fixation that the effect is nausea, even though after rereading the section, I noted that there are clearly two characters in the strip that do not characterize it that way. In fact the only one who is definitely nauseous is the one losing his lunch on panel 1 of page 84 of SoD. The child in the center says that she feels funny looking at it, which isn't the same as nausea - it could indicate discomfort or being unsettled too.

So, the two characters commenting on it:

On page 84 of SoD, in panel 2, the ringmaster states "Look on in awe and terror folks..." Not exactly how I would expect something which induces nausea to be introduced. Terror.

On page 85 of SoD, in panel 2, Right-Eye states "Almost everyone else who spends a silver piece to get into the sideshow recoils in abject horror at the sight of you..." Again, not nausea. Horror.

If MitD had been described as grotesque nausea might fit, maybe. But terror and horror definitely suggest fear. Not nausea. And this is coming from two characters, in the comic, describing the expected and actual reaction to MitD's appearance.

I think that is a much stronger indication of what the reaction to MitD actually is than any speculation based on faces.

Admittedly, Xykon describes MitD as ugly later in the book, but he's also undead and couldn't be fearful or nauseated, so his reaction is kind of moot if we're talking about one of those two effects.

Maybe it's kind of both in a way. Corrupting Presence variant of Frightful Presence from Dragon Magic, p. 129. Although I think would also need the rule that was made clear in 5.0 which is that the dragon gets to choose who the aura does and does not effect.

[Precure]

Considering his comment about Xykon's lack of balls he might belong to a species with balls.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Considering his comment about Xykon's lack of balls he might belong to a species with balls.

Or he belongs to a species with eyes, and thus can see he has no balls.

GW

[Keltest]

Or he belongs to a species with eyes, and thus can see he has no balls.

GW

I think the idea here is that he needs to have a pair himself in order to have any understanding of what that would actually mean. Or that his species would, at any rate.

Not that i think its a very strong point anyway, we already know the MITD's species has males, and most D&D art is not explicit as to the arrangement of reproductive organs for us to know anyway.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

I think the idea here is that he needs to have a pair himself in order to have any understanding of what that would actually mean. Or that his species would, at any rate.

Not that i think its a very strong point anyway, we already know the MITD's species has males, and most D&D art is not explicit as to the arrangement of reproductive organs for us to know anyway.

And he could have acquired information about anatomical components by, say, watching dwarves have sex.

GW

[Darth Paul]

Can I just mention, this was a weird moment to pop back in on the thread after a couple months without reading it...

[Squire Doodad]

MitD presumably belongs to a "male" sex of a species with two sexes, given him being a "male", having a club that "girls can't join" and specifically having a "dad".
That said, he is not necessarily part of a male sex of a species with two sexes, as said species could easily not abide by normal lines of "a man and a woman" (instead being "any two entities of the same species", with gender being purely a social construct) or in theory reproduce asexually.

At the end of the day, the only thing we have to assume about MitD's gender and birth is that he is of a species that can be born through one means or another. MitD could be male but this is not strictly necessary, especially since "he" is sometimes used as a shorthand for one whose gender is not known.

[Quebbster]

So in today's page (#1215), Durkon and Minrah are running away from most of Team Evil. What are the odds they run into the MitD next?

[Grey_Wolf_c]

So in today's page (#1215), Durkon and Minrah are running away from most of Team Evil. What are the odds they run into the MitD next?

[0, 1]

GW c

[Peelee]

[0, 1]

GW c

Disagree.

(0, 1)

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Disagree.

(0, 1)

That makes no sense. You are excluding the only two possible values. Either Rich has scripted MitD's appearance, or he has not. Thus, the only two possibilities are 0% and 100%.
Anyone thinking I'm seriously trying to calculate odds for reals is grossly mistaken, 100%
GW

[Jasdoif]

[0, 1]

GW c

Disagree.

(0, 1)

No, I think Grey_Wolf_c is on the right track here; both in the "inclusive range" sense and the "distinct items of the same logical type are better represented with a list than with a tuple" sense.

[ByzantiumBhuka]

That makes no sense. You are excluding the only two possible values. Either Rich has scripted MitD's appearance, or he has not. Thus, the only two possibilities are 0% and 100%.
Anyone thinking I'm seriously trying to calculate odds for reals is grossly mistaken, 100%

Wouldn't it then be {0,1}?

[Peelee]

That makes no sense. You are excluding the only two possible values. Either Rich has scripted MitD's appearance, or he has not. Thus, the only two possibilities are 0% and 100%.
Anyone thinking I'm seriously trying to calculate odds for reals is grossly mistaken, 100%
GW

A.) Since, as you state, the Giant either has scripted MitD's appearance or has not, and thus only two possibilities exist, I interpret the question to be discussion opener. Responding "either 100% or 0%" is not conducive to discussion, so I discard it.

2.) The fact that it is a binary outcome already made by one person has no bearing on what outsiders perceive the odds to be. If I fight against the ghost of Muhammad Ali on Thursday and on Wednesday Ali decides to take a dive, the bookies still take bets, because they are not aware.

iii.) Your own answer also included every set of numbers between 0 and 1, so saying there are only two possibilities while presenting infinite possibilities seems a bit odd.
Any attempts to rebut point iii will just result in even more bad math from me (and the badness will grow exponentially the more it is rebutted).

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Wouldn't it then be {0,1}?

No.

2.) The fact that it is a binary outcome already made by one person has no bearing on what outsiders perceive the odds to be.

That's a weird assertion. I find it to have a lot of bearing on what I, as an outsider, perceive the odds to be. Particularly in the sense that this is not a random event at all, but a deterministic one whose outcome has already been decided, and in that sense it absolutely affects how I perceive the odds, which is why I posted what I did.

Grey Wolf

[Peelee]

That's a weird assertion. I find it to have a lot of bearing on what I, as an outsider, perceive the odds to be. Particularly in the sense that this is not a random event at all, but a deterministic one whose outcome has already been decided, and in that sense it absolutely affects how I perceive the odds, which is why I posted what I did.

Grey Wolf

The question can be rephrased as "what are the odds that the author will choose to/to not have MitD next strip," with no change in effective meaning of the question. Since it can be rephrased that way, whether or not it is a deterministic event is irrelevant.

For another example, what are the odds that Bob goes to work tomorrow? Bob could work a M-F office job, could be an entertainer that only performs on booked days, could work two or more jobs with no off days, or could be unemployed. Bob knows exactly whether or not he will go to work tomorrow. That is deterministic. Our knowledge of whether or not Bob will go to work tomorrow is not. We could take the percentages of all people in Bobland to determine the odds - 90% of people in Bobland are employed and work M-F, so it is a high likelihood Bob will go to work tomorrow.

Bob knows for sure. We do not. Thus, we can guess probability.

The author knows for sure. We do not. Thus, we can guess probability (though with far less data and more debatable data than the demographics of Bobland).

[Xhosant]

Boboand sounds like they have their employment issues sorted out. 90% plus bookend jobs plus double jobs makes for a damn low unemployment rate.

[Lemarc]

I'm curious, sorry if I'm repeating something often mentioned, but may I ask about the consensus on panel 3 of this comic?

[Keltest]

I'm curious, sorry if I'm repeating something often mentioned, but may I ask about the consensus on panel 3 of this comic?

Im not aware that there is one. My personal read is that the MITD is just being a goof with no real scale of the difficulty of actual tasks due to having done absolutely nothing of any importance or difficulty his entire on-screen life. Some people believe it, and other statements like it, to be a literal clue about how his anatomy/powers use up most of his action economy, so he literally physically cant pull things or move very quickly and has legitimate difficulty with simple tasks.

[Darth Paul]

I'm curious, sorry if I'm repeating something often mentioned, but may I ask about the consensus on panel 3 of this comic?

Yes, it can be hard to get a consensus around here. Since almost everything about MitD is open to interpretation, that's where it tends to end up.

FWIW, many people take it as a clue that MitD has unusual limbs that have trouble grasping things (for example, Hook Horror, ANB, Ha-Naga). It's also among the arguments for the Protean as MitD- if he's using a move action to maintain his shape (and the 2 eyes) every round, instead of being a boiling mass of protoplasm, then performing 2 other actions would seem complicated for him.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

I'm curious, sorry if I'm repeating something often mentioned, but may I ask about the consensus on panel 3 of this comic?

My own interpretation is that it is a reflection of the "men of steel world of cardboard" trope: when MitD pushes something, it gets pushed. When MitD pulls on something, it is likely to fray, bend, snap, break or the like.

But I do enjoy a suggestion that has a good explanation - like poor grasping appendages - that make pushing easy but pulling hard.

GW

[Xhosant]

Considering the explanation (simultaneously holding and applying strength), the solution (stepping on the rope to hold it, seemingly) and compared with the MitD's 'high minimum push', my take is that it doesn't employ physical prehensile limbs, but rather some telekinetic projection of some kind. After all, the MitD didn't worry about the direction of force, only its concurrency.

Alternatively, single powerful prehensile limb.

[Riftwolf]

My own personal take (for the tower scene as well) would be MitD has some sort of repulsive quality whenever it tries to touch something. This would make tapping lightly and holding something difficult, but pushing things or hitting horses through walls effortless.
(As for how he holds anything, like the stew bucket, I'd further suggest it was an activated ability and he only does it when he's concentrating too hard on a task.)
Whether this has some merit as an idea, I'm not sure (my pet theory for a while was MitD was an awakened black hole, but that'd be hard to qualify).