MitD XV: The Other Dark One

[Crusher]

My own personal take (for the tower scene as well) would be MitD has some sort of repulsive quality whenever it tries to touch something. This would make tapping lightly and holding something difficult, but pushing things or hitting horses through walls effortless.
(As for how he holds anything, like the stew bucket, I'd further suggest it was an activated ability and he only does it when he's concentrating too hard on a task.)
Whether this has some merit as an idea, I'm not sure (my pet theory for a while was MitD was an awakened black hole, but that'd be hard to qualify).

Any ideas of monsters with that trait?

[Ruck]

My own interpretation is that it is a reflection of the "men of steel world of cardboard" trope: when MitD pushes something, it gets pushed. When MitD pulls on something, it is likely to fray, bend, snap, break or the like.

But I do enjoy a suggestion that has a good explanation - like poor grasping appendages - that make pushing easy but pulling hard.

GW

Or a monster that has to constantly use one action to do something, like maintain a face, and thus finds doing two other things at the same time practically impossible.

EDIT: More to the point, really, is that to pull things one must have a prehensile limb, which is not required for pushing. Perhaps, say, it is difficult for MITD to manifest a limb AND concentrate on pulling AND whatever else he might be concentrating on. (After all, you don't have to hold something to push it, his expressed complaint about the difficulty of pulling-- "Pulling has all those tricky parts where you hold something AND move it. At the same time!")

[Lemarc]

Thanks for the info, folks. I suppose asking for a "consensus" was pretty daft of me, but I got a good range of information which satisfied my curiosity, I appreciate it.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Thanks for the info, folks. I suppose asking for a "consensus" was pretty daft of me, but I got a good range of information which satisfied my curiosity, I appreciate it.

No need to put yourself down. It wasn't daft - there do exist several characteristics for which there does exist broad consensus. You couldn't have known in advance if this particular one was one of them or not.

GW

[Riftwolf]

Any ideas of monsters with that trait?

Defenestrating Sphere?

[Xhosant]

Living Spell DefSphere's my new working theory!

[Peelee]

Defenestrating Sphere?

Note to self, new magic item: Ring of Refenestration - Gives the wearer the returning property when the wearer is suddenly ejected from a building.

[Keltest]

Note to self, new magic item: Ring of Refenestration - Gives the wearer the returning property when the wearer is suddenly ejected from a building.

From a window. It's not defenestration if it isn't from a window. Get hurled out the door or through a wall and you're SOL.

[Peelee]

From a window. It's not defenestration if it isn't from a window. Get hurled out the door or through a wall and you're SOL.

Note to self, use less poetic license.

[Keltest]

Note to self, use less poetic license.

I mean, you could just avoid being thrown through walls.

[Crusher]

I mean, you could just avoid being thrown through walls.

Miko!

Ah, too late.

[Peelee]

I mean, you could just avoid being thrown through walls.

Don't tell me how to live my life.

[Riftwolf]

Don't tell me how to live my life.

Herman Munster?
Wait, that reference is too old...
Kool-Aid Guy?

Is there a point between Defenestration and Refenestration where one is in a state of Fenestre, where you *are* the window?

I kinda want to stat up a Windowscourge Slaad with a permanent Defenestrating Aura, but I'm also aware I should get some sleep.

[Hardcore]

In the final book I would like to see a comprehensive list of all the clues and a discussion of them.
Did we miss any? Was our interpretations wrong? Would be very interested in finding out.

[Throknor]

In the final book I would like to see a comprehensive list of all the clues and a discussion of them.
Did we miss any? Was our interpretations wrong? Would be very interested in finding out.

I doubt he'd go "comprehensive" in a printed book as that could be a lot of pages for the minority that cares about that level of detail. But I would be surprised if he didn't address what he considered the main clues to some degree in a section after the reveal. He can be comprehensive after publication* here, on Patreon, in a post-wrap up AMA interview, or any number of ways. Or he may just assume he'll get much negative pushback on little details and just leave it at a less-than-comprehensive list and let us argue until the sun goes dark.

* Heck, he might not even wait for the book since unless it is literally the last page once it happens online there could be daily threads about how his choice doesn't make sense because of someone's interpretation of a strip/comment/calendar page/whatever and he'll need to make a list just to preemptively be able to have one thread for the discussion.

[Quartz]

In the final book I would like to see a comprehensive list of all the clues and a discussion of them.
Did we miss any? Was our interpretations wrong? Would be very interested in finding out.

I rather think there will be a lot of, "How could we have been so stupid as to not realise?" after the reveal.

[Keltest]

I rather think there will be a lot of, "How could we have been so stupid as to not realise?" after the reveal.

I'm like 80% certain that this thread's biggest mistakes will all be in the vein of cleverly outsmarting ourselves. Assumptions are a dangerous thing to leave unquestioned after all.

[Jasdoif]

Defenestrating Sphere?

Note to self, new magic item: Ring of Refenestration - Gives the wearer the returning property when the wearer is suddenly ejected from a building.

From a window. It's not defenestration if it isn't from a window. Get hurled out the door or through a wall and you're SOL.

Note to self, use less poetic license.

Defenestrating sphere doesn't require a window...

Creatures that fall prone must then succeed on a second Fortitude save or be swept up by the sphere and driven 1d8×10 feet into the air, dropping 1d6 squares from their original position in a random direction and taking falling damage as normal. If a window is within range, the subject is automatically thrown in that direction.

...so you could ask to borrow its license for a while.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

I'm like 80% certain that this thread's biggest mistakes will all be in the vein of cleverly outsmarting ourselves. Assumptions are a dangerous thing to leave unquestioned after all.

There is a large distance between "that which Rich can get away with changing for the purposes of the story" and "that which this thread can assume Rich has changed for the purposes of the story". I therefore suspect our biggest issues will turn out to be the places were Rich took liberties with RAW and we did not. Not that there is anything we can do about it, given we cannot possibly outguess Rich.

GW

[Lombard]

There is a large distance between "that which Rich can get away with changing for the purposes of the story" and "that which this thread can assume Rich has changed for the purposes of the story". I therefore suspect our biggest issues will turn out to be the places were Rich took liberties with RAW and we did not. Not that there is anything we can do about it, given we cannot possibly outguess Rich.

GW

I think Rich will take care to show us every non-standard element. For example he has shown us he is using The Will and the Way. That would not have been reasonable for us to assume since it's not 3.5.

[3Power]

I think Rich will take care to show us every non-standard element. For example he has shown us he is using The Will and the Way. That would not have been reasonable for us to assume since it's not 3.5.

Could you elaborate on this? What specifically references that book?

[Lombard]

Could you elaborate on this? What specifically references that book?

Laurin was using some nonstandard powers, the one that immediately comes to mind is the wormhole. There was forum discussion around it at the time though it has been some years.

Another interesting thing about Will and the Way is that there's a power in there that would explain the tower scene pretty well. I've mentioned it before in this thread but I think people just don't like the idea of MiTD having class levels. Agree to disagree...

[Hardcore]

will and the way? Flexible use of psionics?

[Darth Paul]

I'm like 80% certain that this thread's biggest mistakes will all be in the vein of cleverly outsmarting ourselves. Assumptions are a dangerous thing to leave unquestioned after all.

"When you make an assumption, you make an ass out of You and Umption." - Samuel L. Jackson, The Long Kiss Goodnight

(Said quote possibly being the only memorable thing about that entire film...)

[Lombard]

{scrubbed}

[catagent101]

Laurin was using some nonstandard powers, the one that immediately comes to mind is the wormhole. There was forum discussion around it at the time though it has been some years.

Another interesting thing about Will and the Way is that there's a power in there that would explain the tower scene pretty well. I've mentioned it before in this thread but I think people just don't like the idea of MiTD having class levels. Agree to disagree...

I recall reading Rich said he just plain ol' made up the Laurin's powers because there was probably some ability or other like that. I wouldn't say Laurin's powers are not strong evidence of use of a particular book. It could mean he has read it though if that's what Rich was expecting from psionics.

Also, could you repeat the power here? I haven't seen any spell or ability besides wish and friends that can do such things, and having something that is not a 9th-level power or spell could help make finding creatures easier.

{scrub the post, scrub the quote}

Eh, it's more of a shape-changing peg that can fit in just about anything, though there are arguments unique to itself as Ruck's essay demonstrates Actually, that's false. Its shapechanging abilities are not the bread and butter of the protean, and the main application of them is the escape scene. My bad. See arguments below by people who actually thought out their statements.

[Ruck]

Eh, it's more of a shape-changing peg that can fit in just about anything, though there are arguments unique to itself as Ruck's essay demonstrates.

{scrubbed}

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Eh, it's more of a shape-changing peg that can fit in just about anything, though there are arguments unique to itself as Ruck's essay demonstrates.

I keep hearing this argument, and it keeps not being true. The protean uses its alter shape ability to explain exactly one thing, the Escape. Otherwise? It is the right size, it is by far the strongest monster - no "well, 30 is ok, I guess, bit on the low side" like for most other suggestions - it is a solid 50 strength on a Large creature, so even if it is a young version, it's still bloody strong. Few other creatures can say that. And yes, the boiling of flesh explains the Circus, but that's not because it is a shape-changer that fits anything - indeed, true shapechangers cannot use that argument.

The protean is many things, but it has never been "a shape-changing peg that can fit in just about anything".

Grey Wolf

[Keltest]

I keep hearing this argument, and it keeps not being true. The protean uses its alter shape ability to explain exactly one thing, the Escape. Otherwise? It is the right size, it is by far the strongest monster - no "well, 30 is ok, I guess, bit on the low side" like for most other suggestions - it is a solid 50 strength on a Large creature, so even if it is a young version, it's still effing strong. Few other creatures can say that. And yes, the boiling of flesh explains the Circus, but that's not because it is a shape-changer that fits anything - indeed, true shapechangers cannot use that argument.

The protean is many things, but it has never been "a shape-changing peg that can fit in just about anything".

Grey Wolf

Sure it has been. We dont have a huge number of scenes that specifically require it, but should any future FBS scenes come up, the protean fits them almost by default. Its almost as bad as the potted plant with an arbitrary number of templates in terms of its sheer ability to just do whatever we need it to in whatever way we want it to. The only thing it has going over the plant is that its powers are technically part of the base creature.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Sure it has been. We dont have a huge number of scenes that specifically require it, but should any future FBS scenes come up, the protean fits them almost by default. Its almost as bad as the potted plant with an arbitrary number of templates in terms of its sheer ability to just do whatever we need it to in whatever way we want it to. The only thing it has going over the plant is that its powers are technically part of the base creature.

So your argument is that you can't think of a clue it doesn't fit? That's trivial to disprove: it can't pass for a dragon, because it cannot breath fire.

The idea it can "do anything" is based on misreading the alter shape power.

Grey Wolf