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  1. - Top - End - #991
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    Default Re: MitD XV: The Other Dark One

    Quote Originally Posted by ebarde View Post
    I think the monster in the dark is us, the readers of the comic.
    Quote Originally Posted by LuPuWei View Post
    I know what the MitD is!

    He's one of us! A Fanboy!

    Fanboys: Truly grotesque creatures, Fanboys have been known to consume vast quantities of whatever they get their hands on (including mouldy cheeseburgers), while skulking in the darkness of their 'boxes'. When inserted into fantasy fiction, they often wield great quantities of inexplicable power (Mary Sue Syndrome) and have difficulty remembering minor plot details (Gate? What gate?) They are truly the most fearsome creature any Creator can face, and yet are beautiful in that a Creator would be nothing without them. And of course, the monstrous and twisted exterior hides an innocence ill-befitting a horrendous beast, and a niceness of character little understood by those around, often causing them to be bullied by lesser souls in the vicinity.
    We are all MitD in the quiet corners of our souls.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
    Ceterum autem censeo Hilgya malefica est

  2. - Top - End - #992
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    Default Re: MitD XV: The Other Dark One

    Quote Originally Posted by Grey_Wolf_c View Post
    Not your best guess, I note, but objectively the best guess.
    You're lucky I just ate.
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    Fine. Because of the clarification, I won't make that Fyraltari's guess.
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  3. - Top - End - #993
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    Default Re: MitD XV: The Other Dark One

    Whatever the monster is, #1227 makes it clear that he's a half-troll, which is why Miko can't damage him. We just have to figure out what the other half is.

  4. - Top - End - #994
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    Default Re: MitD XV: The Other Dark One

    Quote Originally Posted by b_jonas View Post
    Whatever the monster is, #1227 makes it clear that he's a half-troll, which is why Miko can't damage him. We just have to figure out what the other half is.
    A.) Trolls (and part trolls) can be damaged. They just regenerate.
    2.) The other part is recursive half-green dragon.
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  5. - Top - End - #995
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    Default Re: MitD XV: The Other Dark One

    No, I think the other half has to explain the Escape, not the scenes based on strength and toughness, because the troll half can handle the strength.

  6. - Top - End - #996
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    Default Re: MitD XV: The Other Dark One

    Or maybe no half is a troll, I think putting a bunch of templates together seems a bit like a cheap answer idk

  7. - Top - End - #997
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    Default Re: MitD XV: The Other Dark One

    I'm wondering: Do you think Serini's orange-voiced companion could be another member of MITD's species? She's said that she "belongs with the monsters" so it would seem more likely that Orange Voice is a "monster" than that it is a member of one of the civilized races, it would set up the reveal quite nicely, and it would be appropriate to the gag to have another member of MITD's species show up on-panel... while invisible.
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  8. - Top - End - #998
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    Default Re: MitD XV: The Other Dark One

    Quote Originally Posted by ReaderAt2046 View Post
    I'm wondering: Do you think Serini's orange-voiced companion could be another member of MITD's species? She's said that she "belongs with the monsters" so it would seem more likely that Orange Voice is a "monster" than that it is a member of one of the civilized races, it would set up the reveal quite nicely, and it would be appropriate to the gag to have another member of MITD's species show up on-panel... while invisible.
    I think this is definitely plausible. There's no direct evidence for it, of course, but as you say, it makes basic sense, both in terms of plot and in terms of in-universe logic.
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    Ah yes, the Dungeon-Kruger effect.

  9. - Top - End - #999
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    Default Re: MitD XV: The Other Dark One

    Quote Originally Posted by ReaderAt2046 View Post
    I'm wondering: Do you think Serini's orange-voiced companion could be another member of MITD's species? She's said that she "belongs with the monsters" so it would seem more likely that Orange Voice is a "monster" than that it is a member of one of the civilized races, it would set up the reveal quite nicely, and it would be appropriate to the gag to have another member of MITD's species show up on-panel... while invisible.
    This seems unlikely to me, since MitD doesn't have a colored speech bubble.
    I made a webcomic, featuring absurdity, terrible art, and alleged morals.

  10. - Top - End - #1000
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    Default Re: MitD XV: The Other Dark One

    Quote Originally Posted by InvisibleBison View Post
    This seems unlikely to me, since MitD doesn't have a colored speech bubble.
    Neither did Malack. Until he did.

  11. - Top - End - #1001
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    Default Re: MitD XV: The Other Dark One

    What seems more unlikely to me is that MITD's species will be revealed through someone who isn't MITD. I really don't understand how this would work otherwise.

  12. - Top - End - #1002
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    Default Re: MitD XV: The Other Dark One

    Another thought about the speech bubbles: The Giant has said that, while he didn't determine MitD's species before ~#100, nothing before then contradicts the choice. Given that both MitD speaking with a regular speech bubble and various creatures speaking with colored speech bubbles can be found before #100, I think this indicates that MitD is not of a species that would normally speak with a colored speech bubble.
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  13. - Top - End - #1003
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    Default Re: MitD XV: The Other Dark One

    Quote Originally Posted by b_jonas View Post
    No, I think the other half has to explain the Escape, not the scenes based on strength and toughness, because the troll half can handle the strength.
    You’re assuming there can only be two halves, which the recursive half-green dragon candidate shows isn’t definitely the case. A half-celestial, half-troll, multiply-halved green dragon might work fine despite making mathematics sad.
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  14. - Top - End - #1004
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    Default Re: MitD XV: The Other Dark One

    Quote Originally Posted by Crusher View Post
    You’re assuming there can only be two halves, which the recursive half-green dragon candidate shows isn’t definitely the case. A half-celestial, half-troll, multiply-halved green dragon might work fine despite making mathematics sad.
    Given the number of people mathematics has made sad, I'd say it's high time.
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  15. - Top - End - #1005
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    Default Re: MitD XV: The Other Dark One

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    Given the number of people mathematics has made sad, I'd say it's high time.
    Not very often a post makes me actually laugh out loud. Well done.

  16. - Top - End - #1006
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    Lightbulb Re: MitD XV: The Other Dark One

    I know this might have been up for discussion before I know many others have the same idea, but since the story are on it's last chapter(s) and we will soon (hopefully) know what the MitD really are. But since this is one of the last arc and it seem to somehow resolve around Trolls (Serini's Friends), I bet that MitD are a powerful rare version of a troll. And I bet either Serini or someone else will recognize MitD soon enough, and explaining it's mysterious backstory.

    I think trolls are a good canditate in general as trolls have high regeneration, high strength, can be ugly to look at, but can't really explain all the magic stuff, but there is one specific troll type that sticks out for me.

    Pseudonatural Troll

    The Escape Scene:
    Acces to spell-like at will; blur, dimension door, shield, unhallow. Caster level 20th; save DC 8 + spell level. The DC is Charisma-based. Now, Dimension door are in this case are not enough to fully explain the Escape scene, but there might be some magic items or similar involved. We don't really know.

    The fact that the Pseduo Troll can cast spell at will, but are restricted by Charisma explains a bit at least how it can't use it regularly, but only when he was under huge stress. Maybe a powerful version somehow explained by the Giant at later date.

    Captured scene:
    Pseudo trolls speaks in Giant language, (not very different from common) but might have been around enough to learn to speak common, surprising the hunters of his skills. Worth noting that Common and Orc is bonus langues for trolls in general. Also he is most likely a young version of a Pseudo Troll as his dad is much bigger, making him small enough to fit the trap.

    Tower Scene:
    Armor class: 51 (–1 size, +7 Dex, +35 natural)
    DR 5/epic
    Str 45, Dex 24, Con 33, Int 6, Wis 19, Cha 6
    Also access to shield and blur.
    EDIT: A pseudotroll’s natural weapons are treated as epic for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction.

    Circus Scene:
    Alternate Form ability. At will, a pseudotroll can take the form of a grotesque, tentacled mass (or another appropriately gruesome form), but all its abilities remain unchanged despite the alien appearance. Perfect fit as the Wizard can't see what he is, and the rest are grossed out.

    Existed time:
    Not sure, but probably way before OotS.

    Size/strength:
    His size is large Outsider, but as he is a younger version he might be tiny enough for the box. Still very strong as the strenght is massive along with his high challenge rating.

    Mind effect:
    Weakest save is his Will save that's only +7, but he does have natural high spell resistance (30SR) and Iron Will (+2), his wisdom skill is also decently high at 19, but can be explain as he is a younger version and just failed a save. At least he is not immune to mind effecting spells.

    Challenge Rating:
    21. That fit nicely.

    Childish behaviour
    He is obviously a young version, but the fact that he only have 6 in intelligence means he is acting like Elan v2. Note, that under 8 in inteligence means you have hard to speak properly. As he can speak quite nicely in common as well, creates a downside to my theory.

    Connection to astral plane:
    As a pseudo troll there might be some connections to planes as he is a extraplanar type. Tho this might just be some backstory that fits every monsters in how he ended up in the jungle in the first place. I guess we have to wait and see.

    EDIT2: Trolls have access to darkvision. Not sure if Pseudo Trolls have that, but in general all Trolls does. Maybe explaining how he can look out of the darkness spell?

    I think all this fit the bill quite nicely. It might be a different variety of troll, but this version look quite solid imo. The weakest being the one explaining the escape spell, but as he does have access to spell at will and one of them being dimension door, there might be something in it.
    Last edited by AeonQuasar; 2021-03-10 at 05:05 AM.
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  17. - Top - End - #1007
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    Default Re: MitD XV: The Other Dark One

    This is actually a pretty good suggestion, probably in the upper like 10% of suggestions (although I don’t buy the reason for it being a troll at all). However I have two major problems with it:
    A) that escape scene, dimension door is absolutely not enough to fit the escape (as are well, just about every spell it’s a very hard thing to fit, the most popular guess only barely kinda explains it and those that do have good explanations also have a lot of very major flaws).
    B) the circus scene doesn’t quite make sense for me. The monster in the the darkness is doing absolutely nothing, whatever is explaining this scene has to be passive and the alternate form ability doesn’t really seem to be passive.
    Arrrgh, here be me extended sig!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schroeswald View Post
    I recognize that Conservation of Detail is Overrated, but I find the event that I am using as evidence for my theory above important enough/given enough focus to qualify for what I call Elan’s Exception, “Who wastes perfectly good foreshadowing like that?”. Also I have never correctly predicted any event in any piece of media so take this theory with a grain of salt (I call this Peelee’s Ye Old Reminder).

  18. - Top - End - #1008
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    Default Re: MitD XV: The Other Dark One

    Quote Originally Posted by AeonQuasar View Post
    Pseudonatural Troll

    The Escape Scene:
    Acces to spell-like at will; blur, dimension door, shield, unhallow. Caster level 20th; save DC 8 + spell level. The DC is Charisma-based. Now, Dimension door are in this case are not enough to fully explain the Escape scene, but there might be some magic items or similar involved. We don't really know.
    Can you explain why a monster that may otherwise be a better for for all but the Escape scene could not likewise have some magic items or similar involved, so as to make them the best candidate by patching up the Escape scene weakness?

    This, I think, is the best thing to think of for any guess that involves items or templates - if items or templates were granted to any other guess, would the other guess be better?
    Last edited by Peelee; 2021-03-10 at 07:47 AM.
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  19. - Top - End - #1009
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    Default Re: MitD XV: The Other Dark One

    Quote Originally Posted by AeonQuasar View Post
    I know this might have been up for discussion before I know many others have the same idea, but since the story are on it's last chapter(s) and we will soon (hopefully) know what the MitD really are. But since this is one of the last arc and it seem to somehow resolve around Trolls (Serini's Friends), I bet that MitD are a powerful rare version of a troll. And I bet either Serini or someone else will recognize MitD soon enough, and explaining it's mysterious backstory.

    I think trolls are a good canditate in general as trolls have high regeneration, high strength, can be ugly to look at, but can't really explain all the magic stuff, but there is one specific troll type that sticks out for me.

    Pseudonatural Troll

    The Escape Scene:
    Acces to spell-like at will; blur, dimension door, shield, unhallow. Caster level 20th; save DC 8 + spell level. The DC is Charisma-based. Now, Dimension door are in this case are not enough to fully explain the Escape scene, but there might be some magic items or similar involved. We don't really know.

    The fact that the Pseduo Troll can cast spell at will, but are restricted by Charisma explains a bit at least how it can't use it regularly, but only when he was under huge stress. Maybe a powerful version somehow explained by the Giant at later date.

    Captured scene:
    Pseudo trolls speaks in Giant language, (not very different from common) but might have been around enough to learn to speak common, surprising the hunters of his skills. Worth noting that Common and Orc is bonus langues for trolls in general. Also he is most likely a young version of a Pseudo Troll as his dad is much bigger, making him small enough to fit the trap.

    Tower Scene:
    Armor class: 51 (–1 size, +7 Dex, +35 natural)
    DR 5/epic
    Str 45, Dex 24, Con 33, Int 6, Wis 19, Cha 6
    Also access to shield and blur.
    EDIT: A pseudotroll’s natural weapons are treated as epic for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction.

    Circus Scene:
    Alternate Form ability. At will, a pseudotroll can take the form of a grotesque, tentacled mass (or another appropriately gruesome form), but all its abilities remain unchanged despite the alien appearance. Perfect fit as the Wizard can't see what he is, and the rest are grossed out.

    Existed time:
    Not sure, but probably way before OotS.

    Size/strength:
    His size is large Outsider, but as he is a younger version he might be tiny enough for the box. Still very strong as the strenght is massive along with his high challenge rating.

    Mind effect:
    Weakest save is his Will save that's only +7, but he does have natural high spell resistance (30SR) and Iron Will (+2), his wisdom skill is also decently high at 19, but can be explain as he is a younger version and just failed a save. At least he is not immune to mind effecting spells.

    Challenge Rating:
    21. That fit nicely.

    Childish behaviour
    He is obviously a young version, but the fact that he only have 6 in intelligence means he is acting like Elan v2. Note, that under 8 in inteligence means you have hard to speak properly. As he can speak quite nicely in common as well, creates a downside to my theory.

    Connection to astral plane:
    As a pseudo troll there might be some connections to planes as he is a extraplanar type. Tho this might just be some backstory that fits every monsters in how he ended up in the jungle in the first place. I guess we have to wait and see.

    EDIT2: Trolls have access to darkvision. Not sure if Pseudo Trolls have that, but in general all Trolls does. Maybe explaining how he can look out of the darkness spell?

    I think all this fit the bill quite nicely. It might be a different variety of troll, but this version look quite solid imo. The weakest being the one explaining the escape spell, but as he does have access to spell at will and one of them being dimension door, there might be something in it.
    Sounds like a great suggestion!

    A point to work on from my side, however: during the comic, we have seen the MITD to fit better a high INT low WIS score than otherwise (a good example is how fast he learns to play Go)

  20. - Top - End - #1010
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    Default Re: MitD XV: The Other Dark One

    Quote Originally Posted by AeonQuasar View Post
    Pseudonatural Troll
    In general, the problem with this, as with anything else using the pseudonatural template, is that the base creature is practically incidental. You could swap it for anything from a chicken to a dragon, and the arguments would remain mostly identical.

    Quote Originally Posted by AeonQuasar View Post
    Pseudo trolls speaks in Giant language, (not very different from common) but might have been around enough to learn to speak common, surprising the hunters of his skills.
    The hunters are surprised he speaks at all. "And in common no less" is an afterthought.

    Quote Originally Posted by AeonQuasar View Post
    EDIT2: Trolls have access to darkvision. Not sure if Pseudo Trolls have that, but in general all Trolls does. Maybe explaining how he can look out of the darkness spell?
    By RAW, anyone can look out of a darkness spell. LoS is determined from the corner of the space you occupy, not from the center.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
    Ceterum autem censeo Hilgya malefica est

  21. - Top - End - #1011
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    Default Re: MitD XV: The Other Dark One

    Quote Originally Posted by AeonQuasar View Post
    I think trolls are a good canditate in general as trolls have high regeneration, high strength, can be ugly to look at, but can't really explain all the magic stuff, but there is one specific troll type that sticks out for me.

    Pseudonatural Troll
    Just add the Phrenic template to cure the issues with the Escape and Stomp / Earthquake scenes.

  22. - Top - End - #1012
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    Default Re: MitD XV: The Other Dark One

    Quote Originally Posted by Quartz View Post
    Just add the Phrenic template to cure the issues with the Escape and Stomp / Earthquake scenes.
    Psuodo natural and Phrenic. Hmm, troll works as the base creature, but I think the base creature needs to be a Paragon Phrenic Pseudonatural Tauric Werewolf Lord Hybrid Form/Chimeric Giant Giant Shadow Awoken Bonsai aka Potted Plant.

  23. - Top - End - #1013
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    Default Re: MitD XV: The Other Dark One

    Quote Originally Posted by AeonQuasar View Post
    I know this might have been up for discussion before I know many others have the same idea, but since the story are on it's last chapter(s) and we will soon (hopefully) know what the MitD really are. But since this is one of the last arc and it seem to somehow resolve around Trolls (Serini's Friends), I bet that MitD are a powerful rare version of a troll. And I bet either Serini or someone else will recognize MitD soon enough, and explaining it's mysterious backstory.

    I think trolls are a good canditate in general as trolls have high regeneration, high strength, can be ugly to look at, but can't really explain all the magic stuff, but there is one specific troll type that sticks out for me.

    Pseudonatural Troll

    The Escape Scene:
    Acces to spell-like at will; blur, dimension door, shield, unhallow. Caster level 20th; save DC 8 + spell level. The DC is Charisma-based. Now, Dimension door are in this case are not enough to fully explain the Escape scene, but there might be some magic items or similar involved. We don't really know.

    The fact that the Pseduo Troll can cast spell at will, but are restricted by Charisma explains a bit at least how it can't use it regularly, but only when he was under huge stress. Maybe a powerful version somehow explained by the Giant at later date.

    Captured scene:
    Pseudo trolls speaks in Giant language, (not very different from common) but might have been around enough to learn to speak common, surprising the hunters of his skills. Worth noting that Common and Orc is bonus langues for trolls in general. Also he is most likely a young version of a Pseudo Troll as his dad is much bigger, making him small enough to fit the trap.

    Tower Scene:
    Armor class: 51 (–1 size, +7 Dex, +35 natural)
    DR 5/epic
    Str 45, Dex 24, Con 33, Int 6, Wis 19, Cha 6
    Also access to shield and blur.
    EDIT: A pseudotroll’s natural weapons are treated as epic for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction.

    Circus Scene:
    Alternate Form ability. At will, a pseudotroll can take the form of a grotesque, tentacled mass (or another appropriately gruesome form), but all its abilities remain unchanged despite the alien appearance. Perfect fit as the Wizard can't see what he is, and the rest are grossed out.

    Existed time:
    Not sure, but probably way before OotS.

    Size/strength:
    His size is large Outsider, but as he is a younger version he might be tiny enough for the box. Still very strong as the strenght is massive along with his high challenge rating.

    Mind effect:
    Weakest save is his Will save that's only +7, but he does have natural high spell resistance (30SR) and Iron Will (+2), his wisdom skill is also decently high at 19, but can be explain as he is a younger version and just failed a save. At least he is not immune to mind effecting spells.

    Challenge Rating:
    21. That fit nicely.

    Childish behaviour
    He is obviously a young version, but the fact that he only have 6 in intelligence means he is acting like Elan v2. Note, that under 8 in inteligence means you have hard to speak properly. As he can speak quite nicely in common as well, creates a downside to my theory.

    Connection to astral plane:
    As a pseudo troll there might be some connections to planes as he is a extraplanar type. Tho this might just be some backstory that fits every monsters in how he ended up in the jungle in the first place. I guess we have to wait and see.

    EDIT2: Trolls have access to darkvision. Not sure if Pseudo Trolls have that, but in general all Trolls does. Maybe explaining how he can look out of the darkness spell?

    I think all this fit the bill quite nicely. It might be a different variety of troll, but this version look quite solid imo. The weakest being the one explaining the escape spell, but as he does have access to spell at will and one of them being dimension door, there might be something in it.
    As far as templated suggestions go, this is good. Sadly, its still a templated suggestion. That having been said, I can improve upon it.

    One of my favorite candidate suggestions of all time: the Black Troll. I'm trying to pull up the original link but it might be dead since its been a few years. In a nutshell, its group of trolls that somehow ended up in... Either Hell or the Abyss, I forget, but somehow survived and multiplied eventually becoming infernal creatures, but still "biological", I suppose.

    In terms of brass tacks, they're regular trolls except slightly tougher, smarter (INT and CHR of 10), "demonic looking" (unspecified how exactly), and for no apparent reason they can cast Chain Lightning and Teleport without Error (aka Greater Teleport) like a 10th level caster. Wish or Miracle is better, but Greater Teleport is a tolerable answer to the Escape Scene.

    Pseudonatural Black Troll ftw.
    Last edited by Crusher; 2021-03-11 at 04:56 PM.
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  24. - Top - End - #1014
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    Default Re: MitD XV: The Other Dark One

    I have another idea, but don't know if it was discussed or proposed before.

    Remember that in a comic, there were a few pages with food/drink characters? Don't remember that too well, but I think I remember Pizza, Juice and others.

    Maybe MITD is someone of this type as well?

    Now, what can I say as a proof. First, why present us those characters if they got no impact on the story? There must be a reason. They have been mentioned at least three times, why? Just that Thor could mention that there was a world with them? I believe there can be more to it.

    Those characters, even that they look as food and drinks are still "normal", they can be hurt and killed, and they even have eyes, mouthes and limbs. And can be mind-controlled I guess.

    And Oona was comparing MITD to spicy food.

    As for the major scenes - maybe the effects are coming from metaphors or idioms? I am good with English, but it isn't my native language. So here I will need help from those who know better than me.

    I think, even can't find exact quotes, that there might be something like "alcohol so strong that it can kick the horse" or "food so spicy that will make teleport miles away".

    Ah, before I forget, in our country there was a ad: "Pringles: explosive taste", so here is an example.

    Disgusting look? In the army, I just couldn't touch canned beef, the very SIGHT of it made me sick. A human sized piece of proccessed meat, especially out of the can? I will now vomit!

    Can't be damaged? Not because of tough skin, but because blades moved through his body as through air, with whatever he consists of , closed back right away.

    Now, the question is, why he eats all the time. Maybe he is a bevarage that causes to be hungry, just after you drank it? Or even some kind of food, that makes one eat more and more.

    So... MITD is a character consisting of something very spicy?

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    Default Re: MitD XV: The Other Dark One

    Quote Originally Posted by Edreyn View Post
    Now, what can I say as a proof. First, why present us those characters if they got no impact on the story? There must be a reason.
    Because it's funny. Not everything has to matter in the grand scheme of things, you know. I doubt that say Cyclops or that hobgoblin mother are going to matter.
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    Default Re: MitD XV: The Other Dark One

    Yes, but food and drinks characters were mentioned more than once.

    And if MITD would be shown as food or drink it's also funny.

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    Default Re: MitD XV: The Other Dark One

    Quote Originally Posted by Edreyn View Post
    Yes, but food and drinks characters were mentioned more than once.

    And if MITD would be shown as food or drink it's also funny.
    Somehow I doubt that MitD's reveal is going to be a comedic moment.
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    Default Re: MitD XV: The Other Dark One

    Quote Originally Posted by Edreyn View Post
    And Oona was comparing MITD to spicy food.
    No, she compares him to the nightmares caused by spicy food. (Note that whether this is true or not is irrelevant: it is certainly believed by many, jokingly or otherwise, that spicy food gives you nightmares).

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    Last edited by Grey_Wolf_c; 2021-03-18 at 04:55 PM.
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    Default Re: MitD XV: The Other Dark One

    Quote Originally Posted by Grey_Wolf_c View Post
    No, she compares him to the nightmares caused by spicy food. (Note that whether this is true or not is irrelevant: it is certainly believed by many, jokingly or otherwise, that spicy food gives you nightmares).

    GW
    I do believe that it CAN be a hint on MITD origin. Maybe not, but wanted to share this theory.
    Last edited by Edreyn; 2021-03-18 at 04:59 PM.

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    Default Re: MitD XV: The Other Dark One

    Quote Originally Posted by Edreyn View Post
    Disgusting look? In the army, I just couldn't touch canned beef, the very SIGHT of it made me sick. A human sized piece of proccessed meat, especially out of the can? I will now vomit!
    I also wanted to add that I think the point of the circus scene is not that everyone is disgusted by MITD, but that he provokes a range of reactions, including disgust/nausea in some people.

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