MitD XV: The Other Dark One

[Schroeswald]

2) He's also on record that he originally though Miko would be more of a romantic interest for Roy but once he started writing the actual strips she appeared in that changed. What didn't change was her dragging the Order to Azure city. Though it is debatable if she was always going to be the one that shattered the Gate as O-Chul never shared it and is currently taking the blame for wanting to anyway.

I’m not feeling like looking for it but if I remember correctly the Giants quote was directly that his endgame for Miko never changed, her entire arc was building to her fall and the breaking of that gate from day one.

[dancrilis]

I’m not feeling like looking for it but if I remember correctly the Giants quote was directly that his endgame for Miko never changed, her entire arc was building to her fall and the breaking of that gate from day one.

I on the other hand was in the mood for it:

Good gods, this is ridiculous. I came back to this thread to see whether there was any comment on my previous post, and look at this (mostly off-topic) mess.

OK, so let's clear something up: This mythological notion that Miko was originally intended to be the indefinite romantic interest for Roy is pure fantasy and unfounded speculation. Everything from the point where Miko drags the Order to Azure City in chains in #251 is more-or-less exactly what was always going to happen, with only some tone changed. Miko, and only Miko, was intended to kill Shojo, fall from grace, and ultimately destroy the Azurite gate. No one else was ever considered for this role, and this role was assigned to her from before her first appearance in #200. It was the entire narrative purpose of her character. Of course, I couldn't SAY that in the notes to Paladin Blues, because none of that had happened yet. There was never an intention for there to be a relationship with Roy, merely a few clumsy attempts on Roy's part to start one, followed by a rebuff and the Order's capture. Miko was always a "villain", and I did not intend for Roy to have a long-running relationship with a villain, merely to make her an appealing enough antagonist that some people were rooting for her.

Please, if you're going to bash my writing, do so for what I actually wrote, not some concocted dream of what you think I should have written. There were never going to be 500+ strips of romantic comedy, just two dozen or so before the character started down the slippery slope of self-righteousness to her endpoint in the rubble of Azure City.

(Also, Sam and Diane were the epitome of tortured drawn-out will-they-or-won't-they clichés and Shelley Long was right to put it out of its misery when she did. I can't think of anything I would be less interested in writing than that.)

[Schroeswald]

That’s actually one of the first forum posts I read, I remember seeing that thread before I’d even caught up in the comic and made an account here, so it’s stuck in my head quite a bit, but yeah, this is what the Giant would plan way back at the very start of him having an ongoing story, the species and the arc of our little umbrella holding monster our connected and deep and were originally connected and deep.

[Squire Doodad]

Out of curiosity, do you guys think there will be any more hints until the great reveal?
Not that MitD will not appear again until the reveal scene, but rather that there won't be any more hints given about MitD.

[dmc91356]

My personal opinion is that when we look back with 20/20 hindsight, there are going to be some pretty otherwise innocuous tidbits that turn out to have been clues.

[Crusher]

Out of curiosity, do you guys think there will be any more hints until the great reveal?
Not that MitD will not appear again until the reveal scene, but rather that there won't be any more hints given about MitD.

Absolutely, but its because at this point even something extremely subtle still counts as a clue. Something MitD knows or doesn't know, how high off the ground its eyes are drawn, does its dialogue seem more intelligent than last time, how close is he standing to which members of Team Evil, etc etc. Virtually any appearance, action or dialogue by MitD, as well as any reference to MitD, will be parsed to within a pixel of its life to be wrung of all clues, no matter how microscopic.

[Squire Doodad]

Absolutely, but its because at this point even something extremely subtle still counts as a clue. Something MitD knows or doesn't know, how high off the ground its eyes are drawn, does its dialogue seem more intelligent than last time, how close is he standing to which members of Team Evil, etc etc. Virtually any appearance, action or dialogue by MitD, as well as any reference to MitD, will be parsed to within a pixel of its life to be wrung of all clues, no matter how microscopic.

Okay, let's try this again, but this time without the sarcasm.


He says, coloring his text in a sarcastic blue

[Crusher]

Okay, let's try this again, but this time without the sarcasm.


He says, coloring his text in a sarcastic blue

I had a whole super-sarcastic response typed out, but then my computer decided to restart itself and ate it. I took that as a sign from the universe I was going down the wrong track. So, instead, I'll answer: I wasn't being sarcastic at all. I was being pedantic, thank you very much.

[Keltest]

My personal opinion is that when we look back with 20/20 hindsight, there are going to be some pretty otherwise innocuous tidbits that turn out to have been clues.

I suspect its mostly going to go down the opposite road, and many things that we felt very solid about were the result of us dramatically overthinking things.

[Squire Doodad]

I suspect its mostly going to go down the opposite road, and many things that we felt very solid about were the result of us dramatically overthinking things.

That's a good point - we've basically gone over every scene with a fine comb. We're just as likely to have caught a dolphin as we are to have missed a tuna.

[Peelee]

I had a whole super-sarcastic response typed out, but then my computer decided to restart itself and ate it. I took that as a sign from the universe I was going down the wrong track. So, instead, I'll answer: I wasn't being sarcastic at all. I was being pedantic, thank you very much.

[Crusher]

As I've often told myself after correcting under-appreciative people, being technically correct is its own reward.

[Ruck]

Heh, I saw this post in another old thread:

And had the Wrecan-like reaction, "No. No, I cannot."

[Darth V]

My personal opinion is that when we look back with 20/20 hindsight, there are going to be some pretty otherwise innocuous tidbits that turn out to have been clues.

I suspect its mostly going to go down the opposite road, and many things that we felt very solid about were the result of us dramatically overthinking things.

I wouldn't be surprised if we missed some obvious clues and have concentrated too much on white noise simultaniously.

[Edreyn]

I've been reading original posts with all assembled so far info. While I can't point to a specific creature, I want to discuss something about possible form of MitD.

The original posts say that he is either with 2 legs and crouched or with 4 legs. But what if he is an insect-like(6 legs) or spider-like (8 legs)? This way he can use same limbs both for walking and holding items. Also, spiders, even of greater size, are "compact" and a large spider will occupy less space and height in comparison to large humanoid. The position of eyes also fits spider body.

Again, I only wish to discuss form, not fitting to main scenes.

Spiders don't chew food though, they suck blood from their prey, but MitD can have spider legs and head/jaw of another creature. Ugly and somewhat beautiful. Or, again, he is an insect - bugs have mouthes.

I did try googling for a fantasy/myth spiders and insects, but didn't find any specific creature. Ungoliant somewhat fits because of gluttony and darkness, and MitD can call her father instead of mother, but yeah she is copyrighted.

Maybe someone knows if DnD has spiders with mouthes?

UPD: googling for "spider with human head" returned a creature "Aasrivak". So, at least one such creature exists in mythology.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

I've been reading original posts with all assembled so far info. While I can't point to a specific creature, I want to discuss something about possible form of MitD.

The original posts say that he is either with 2 legs and crouched or with 4 legs. But what if he is an insect-like(6 legs) or spider-like (8 legs)?

Yes, that'd fit perfectly well with the evidence we have. I'll try to remember to update "four" to "four or more".

As to examples, there are a few, I'm sure. The one that immediately comes to mind is the Lolth (or Lloth) servants, driders, "centaurs, but with spider rather than horse". But if you do find an example of creature with centaur-like characteristics except more than 4 legs, that would not be a problem or a con at all.

GW

[Edreyn]

I know about driders, but Lloth never appeared in the comic. Also they can't reproduce, drider can only be created from a grown-up drow as punishment from Lloth. So they don't grow and don't have children or parents.

Unless this is the "fine line" - driders existed before, but specifically those can reproduce.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

I know about driders, but Lloth never appeared in the comic. Also they can't reproduce, drider can only be created from a grown-up drow as punishment from Lloth. So they don't grow and don't have children or parents.

To be clear, I'm not suggesting they're good MitD candidates. I'm merely listing them as good examples of "quadruped posture with more than four legs".

GW

[Edreyn]

No problem!

So, with form I can imagine, MitD can resemble:
Spider, non-flying insect, crab, scorpion.

There are many mythological hybrids on wiki, but there is no point to copy them all here.

[Quartz]

The original posts say that he is either with 2 legs and crouched or with 4 legs. But what if he is an insect-like(6 legs) or spider-like (8 legs)? This way he can use same limbs both for walking and holding items. Also, spiders, even of greater size, are "compact" and a large spider will occupy less space and height in comparison to large humanoid. The position of eyes also fits spider body.

Not arachnoforms but take a look at some of the critters from the world of Tekumel. There are quite a few with more than two legs.

[Edreyn]

Are there any creatures or entities that have godly powers, but not divine rank? Like Lady of Pain. She is almighty, but her main doghma is "I am NOT a deity".

Maybe MitD is a giant squirrel?!

Upd: if seriously, just want to keep thread and discussion active.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Are there any creatures or entities that have godly powers, but not divine rank? Like Lady of Pain. She is almighty, but her main doghma is "I am NOT a deity".

It's going to heavily depend on how you define "godly powers". After all, we are not really looking for a god, just something with access to wish (teleport in a pinch), massive strength, possibly unspecified earthquake abilities and that people think is vomit-worthy appearance while being strangely beautiful, amongst other characteristics. None of that need add to "godly" at all.

Rules-wise, though, you get the "downsides"* of divine ranks at rank 0, which is long before the "upsides" like access to Miracle kick in.

Grey Wolf

*From a MitD-guessing perspective. Immunity to mind control is no downside for a character.

[Edreyn]

I keep thinking that MitD isn't someone from rulebooks, but someone from either folklore or even a creature from metaphor, or proverb, or popular saying, or even a hypothetical creature like Maxwell's demon or something like that.

It's hard to explain and even harder to google for that - I still haven't found a way to actually get a list of such creatures. And I did try googling many times.

Nothing fits so far.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

I keep thinking that MitD isn't someone from rulebooks, but someone from either folklore or even a creature from metaphor, or proverb, or popular saying, or even a hypothetical creature like Maxwell's demon or something like that.

It's hard to explain and even harder to google for that - I still haven't found a way to actually get a list of such creatures. And I did try googling many times.

Nothing fits so far.

You also might be surprised to discover how few creatures from folklore, metaphor and even nonsense poems aren't in some splatbook or another.

GW

[Edreyn]

Ha, yes that's funny!

Still it doesn't bring us any closer. I wonder when the author will reveal MitD. The comic is supposed to last about 5 or 6 more years, and maybe MitD will be shown only in the very end.

But I do hope to see more scenes and clues, about him.

[Yendor]

You also might be surprised to discover how few creatures from folklore, metaphor and even nonsense poems aren't in some splatbook or another.

The Giant's comment on Patreon seems relevant. (emphasis added)

I mean, strictly speaking dragons aren’t mythical creatures in the OOTS world. They exist. Dinosaurs also clearly exist, because Belkar has one in his backpack. In order to be mythical, something would need to not exist but still have myths told about it, and I’m not sure what would qualify for that since there’s been stats printed for pretty much every imaginary monster ever conceived at this point. Maybe something from another fantasy IP? I guess people might be telling tall tales about balrogs and nazgul (or bilrugs and nizgal, in order to get around Frudu’s copyright lawyer).

[Squire Doodad]

One thing that was brought up at some point but was probably a red herring would be MitD recognizing Tsukiko as having half a ritual

I think there was something about how MitD would know, and then it went to either Detect Thoughts or creatures with inherent ranks in Spellcraft or something.
Only, Xykon or RC could have brought up there being an Arcane and a Divine ritual, so MitD recognized it as being "half" of the two parts.

[Quartz]

One thing that was brought up at some point but was probably a red herring would be MitD recognizing Tsukiko as having half a ritual

The high Spellcraft score required is one big reason in favour of the Monster being an Uvuudaum.

[Squire Doodad]

The high Spellcraft score required is one big reason in favour of the Monster being an Uvuudaum.

Sure, but at the same time MitD has been around RC and Xykon for a while, so a "there are two parts to the ritual, both parts are important, therefore the two parts and two halves" sort of a mindset is still viable even if MitD didn't know anything about the contents of either ritual.

Tsukiko wasn't given that context, she was just given a ritual.

That said, if MitD is an Uvuudaum then that will certainly have been a point in its favor. One of those "either a red herring a smoking gun" sort of scenarios.

[Kish]

The high Spellcraft score required is one big reason in favour of the Monster being an Uvuudaum.

Or slaad, or...most epic monsters really.

And in general, as I've said on this specific subject before, I think "let's assume that particular clue is not a clue" is a bad approach. The creature tosses off "your stupid half a ritual" like he knew it at a glance. Could Rich handwave "actually Xykon casually mentioned, in front of the creature in the darkness, a vital piece of information he did not give to the person whom he wanted to figure out the ritual for him," if his plan has actually been that the creature in the darkness is something with no skills relevant there? Sure--he could. But even setting aside how logical or not this particular "that's a red herring" interpretation would be, I actually doubt Rich has been deliberately throwing "red herrings" at all; I don't think he would find any particular enjoyment in being able to go, "Aha! You foolishly trusted what my comic appeared to be telling you and didn't know this thing you had no way of knowing and so you failed to guess what the creature is!"