MitD XV: The Other Dark One

[Quartz]

And finally, I don't mean this as a serious suggestion but I find it frankly astonishing that not once in all the speculation has anyone ever identified the MitD as the Shadowchild, from Digger:

I need to read Digger again.

[Shining Wrath]

Shadowchild was a good catch and stimulates the question: what do we know about the immature forms of most monsters?
For dragons we get age levels. For most other creatures, we only have stats for adults, even if we know there are babies (e.g., orcs).
From Rich's words on the MitD:

That is, it isn't something I just made up for the story. It wouldn't be any fun for the answer to a mystery to be something I invented just for one purpose, would it? I won't finally throw back the darkness and have someone say, "Look! It was a therblewurkersaurus the entire time!" or some other made-up monster.
I realize that the line between something I made up and something someone else made up is a pretty fine one, but I trust that someone will figure it out eventually.

Does this point us to a (at least somewhat) familiar monster, with modifications for immaturity? He's being careful to say explicitly that it's not something he made up from whole cloth, but also carefully avoiding saying it's a bog-standard published monster.

What would an immature protean look like?

[Grey_Wolf_c]

What would an immature protean look like?

Even newborns are tides of flesh, ever changing

GW

[Shining Wrath]

Even newborns are tides of flesh, ever changing

GW

That's interesting! I had only seen the SRD description which doesn't have the flavor text.

I was wondering about the protean in Serini's dungeon - would a protean realize that it was being teleported after every door given that proteans have innate Dimension Door, Plane Shift, Ethereal Jaunt? Nothing says it detects conjuration magic, but it has at-will capabilities.

The protean has at-will powers: At will - detect thoughts, dimension door, ethereal jaunt, knock, nondetection, plane shift, suggestion.
Acknowledging that absence of evidence is not evidence of absence, have we ever seen MitD use any of these?
Especially detect thoughts. His childlike nature would lead him to want to know what other people were thinking about him, no?

Also, unless "What Gate" is rule of funny, or immaturity is used as an explanation, a creature with a Spot skill ranking of +55 isn't going to miss the large gate on the other side of Xykon.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

The protean has at-will powers: At will - detect thoughts, dimension door, ethereal jaunt, knock, nondetection, plane shift, suggestion.
Acknowledging that absence of evidence is not evidence of absence, have we ever seen MitD use any of these?
Especially detect thoughts. His childlike nature would lead him to want to know what other people were thinking about him, no?

It has been suggested that it is how a protean!MitD would have known Tsukiko's ritual was only half of one (he'd have heard RC's thoughts on the matter).

Also, unless "What Gate" is rule of funny, or immaturity is used as an explanation, a creature with a Spot skill ranking of +55 isn't going to miss the large gate on the other side of Xykon.

MitD can see the large wooden thing on the other side of Xykon. He just doesn't seem to think that is a gate. Which makes sense if he thinks gates are wibbly-wobbly translucent holes in the fabric of reality that connect you to other planes, whereas that is a big wooden protection to stop mindless undead from frying themselves in the death arch. (this explanation is not exclusive to Protean!MitD)

GW

[Timy]

Even newborns are tides of flesh, ever changing

GW

I actually never clicked on this link until today.

I am now fully convinced, as far I am concerned the MitD is a Protean !

[Crusher]

I actually never clicked on this link until today.

I am now fully convinced, as far I am concerned the MitD is a Protean !

I will put that down as your guess, and double check if you already have an entry.

[Shining Wrath]

It has been suggested that it is how a protean!MitD would have known Tsukiko's ritual was only half of one (he'd have heard RC's thoughts on the matter).



MitD can see the large wooden thing on the other side of Xykon. He just doesn't seem to think that is a gate. Which makes sense if he thinks gates are wibbly-wobbly translucent holes in the fabric of reality that connect you to other planes, whereas that is a big wooden protection to stop mindless undead from frying themselves in the death arch. (this explanation is not exclusive to Protean!MitD)

GW

He actually says "Huh, I never noticed that before", presumably referring to the large garish object Xykon is pointing at.
Which may mean he was perceiving the hole in reality as being the important thing, and the wooden thing in front of it was not worth noticing.
I think we can go with MitD perceives reality differently than humanoids, and not conclude he has a high or low Spot skill.

I'm not sure about having heard RC's thoughts about the ritual. If he's spent much time scanning RC's mind, and if RC has read his entry in the Monster Manual, then MitD would know what sort of creature he is - because it's likely that every so often when RC looks at MitD he thinks "Protean" or "Abomination" or "Rburlewsaurus" or whatever he is. Similarly, he'd have gotten the information out of Oona's mind.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

I'm not sure about having heard RC's thoughts about the ritual. If he's spent much time scanning RC's mind, and if RC has read his entry in the Monster Manual, then MitD would know what sort of creature he is - because it's likely that every so often when RC looks at MitD he thinks "Protean" or "Abomination" or "Rburlewsaurus" or whatever he is. Similarly, he'd have gotten the information out of Oona's mind.

When I look at people around me, I don't think "human". I think "{name}". Or, in RC's case when thinking of MitD, "that useless lump". And in Oona's case, "taco-induced nightmare, bit small" or whatever.

GW

[Fyraltari]

When I look at people around me, I don't think "human". I think "{name}". Or, in RC's case when thinking of MitD, "that useless lump". And in Oona's case, "taco-induced nightmare, bit small" or whatever.

GW

Also, even if he caught "protean" and understood that it was describing him, he might not understand that's the name of his species and not some other descriptor insulting his intelligence.

[Brumagris]

When I look at people around me, I don't think "human". I think "{name}". Or, in RC's case when thinking of MitD, "that useless lump". And in Oona's case, "taco-induced nightmare, bit small" or whatever.

GW

So you (and Oona) are saying that, if we embark on a taco eating quest at night time, the resulting nightmares will reveal MITD true nature? This loophole is totally worth a shot :D

[Shining Wrath]

Detect Thoughts is an at-will capability. MitD could spend a large amount of his time reading minds. He's both bored and lazy; boredom motivates him to read minds, laziness to not bother.

I think he'd use the ability when he really wanted to know what someone was thinking about him. Important people, like RedCloak, would be more likely to be scanned. It seems unlikely that many years of occasional scans would never result in a reading of "For a RBurlewsaurus, he's got awfully small incisors" or whatever.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Detect Thoughts is an at-will capability. MitD could spend a large amount of his time reading minds. He's both bored and lazy; boredom motivates him to read minds, laziness to not bother.

I think he'd use the ability when he really wanted to know what someone was thinking about him. Important people, like RedCloak, would be more likely to be scanned. It seems unlikely that many years of occasional scans would never result in a reading of "For a RBurlewsaurus, he's got awfully small incisors" or whatever.

MitD is unaware of his own powers. If he uses read thoughts at all, it is by happenstance.

GW

[Quartz]

MitD is unaware of his own powers. If he uses read thoughts at all, it is by happenstance.

Or unknowingly. He may not be able to distinguish between thoughts and speech.

[BloodSquirrel]

Does this point us to a (at least somewhat) familiar monster, with modifications for immaturity? He's being careful to say explicitly that it's not something he made up from whole cloth, but also carefully avoiding saying it's a bog-standard published monster.

The more important takeaway, IMO, is that it has to be a dramatically interesting monster. I don't think "Oh, it's an obscure monster from some almost completely-unknown splat book that 99% of the comic's audience has ever heard about!" is much different, in spirit, than a monster that he just made up. Neither is "Oh, it's an X, with Y template applied and 10 PC levels in class Z!".

The MitD being a demigod (The Dark One being his father), for example, might not be technically something in the rule book, but it would be a much relevant reveal than it being a Tarrasque, which has nothing to do with the plot.

[Ruck]

I don't think the drama of the reveal is going to be in what particular species MITD is. I think the drama is going to come from the moment he chooses to step out of the shadows and why he chooses to do so. My working most-plausible-assumption is that it's going to be at a point where he betrays Team Evil and turns the tide of battle and is the only thing that can do so. (edit: and if it is a Protean, maybe something like, coming out of the shadows in response to "You're one of the bad guys, idiot!" from Redcloak or Xykon with a final-panel punchline of "I can change.")

[halfeye]

The more important takeaway, IMO, is that it has to be a dramatically interesting monster. I don't think "Oh, it's an obscure monster from some almost completely-unknown splat book that 99% of the comic's audience has ever heard about!" is much different, in spirit, than a monster that he just made up. Neither is "Oh, it's an X, with Y template applied and 10 PC levels in class Z!".

That is pretty much how I feel about things, especially since I don't play D&D. I think it will turn out to be something famous, not something from an obscure historical myth that only historians have heard of. If it fitted the clues, which they don't, a medusa, minotaur, jabberwocky, sphinx or dragon might work, but Scylla or Charybdis (what are they exactly?) probably wouldn't, in my humble opinion.

[Emanick]

That is pretty much how I feel about things, especially since I don't play D&D. I think it will turn out to be something famous, not something from an obscure historical myth that only historians have heard of. If it fitted the clues, which they don't, a medusa, minotaur, jabberwocky, sphinx or dragon might work, but Scylla or Charybdis (what are they exactly?) probably wouldn't, in my humble opinion.

Since nothing famous fits the clues very well, I think this theory pretty much has to be regarded as unworkable. Unless there's something famous which nobody has thought of yet, that is - and if nobody has thought of proposing it in the last fifteen or so years, I'm going to be somewhat skeptical that it's actually all that famous.

[BloodSquirrel]

Since nothing famous fits the clues very well, I think this theory pretty much has to be regarded as unworkable. Unless there's something famous which nobody has thought of yet, that is - and if nobody has thought of proposing it in the last fifteen or so years, I'm going to be somewhat skeptical that it's actually all that famous.

Keep in mind that strict adherence to the D&D rules has not been a priority of the strip for a very long time now.

The only way I can see it being an obscure monster work dramatically is if said type of obscure monster becomes somehow plot-significant beforehand, but we're running out of time for that. Then again, we are at the gate where there's probably the best opportunity for it to show up.

[b_jonas]

BloodSquirrel: the MitD saved Vaarsuvius by teleporting her away when Xykon was just about to kill him. Not many monsters can do that. Just how much more plot significance do you need?

[Darth Paul]

The only way I can see it being an obscure monster work dramatically is if said type of obscure monster becomes somehow plot-significant beforehand, but we're running out of time for that. Then again, we are at the gate where there's probably the best opportunity for it to show up.

It would be a super-dramatic twist if one of MitD's parents happened to be stuck in one of the dungeons here. Normally I would consider that unlikely as heck, but Elan knows that the million-to-one chance happens all the time around here, because drama.

It could explain how he came to be living alone in the jungle, as well; parents nabbed to populate the dungeon.

Suddenly encountering his parents (and/or having Xykon kill one or both?) could be the final element in MitD's character development, and the thing that cements his turn from Team Evil.

[BloodSquirrel]

BloodSquirrel: the MitD saved Vaarsuvius by teleporting her away when Xykon was just about to kill him. Not many monsters can do that. Just how much more plot significance do you need?

That has nothing to do with subject of the MitD's reveal being dramatic. He's already done that. Finding out that he's a monster than can teleport people isn't even a reveal at this point, much less a dramatic one.

[Ruck]

Again, I don't think there's any reason to think the species is going to be what is dramatic about the reveal, other than we'll finally get an answer to the question. The dramatic thrust of MITD isn't that what he is will change the story; it's that his decisions to think for himself and do what he thinks is right, rather than following orders, will change the story.

[InvisibleBison]

Keep in mind that strict adherence to the D&D rules has not been a priority of the strip for a very long time now.

But MitD's species was determined back when adherence to the rules was a priority. Also, the fact that people are supposed to be able to figure out what MitD is based on what he does suggests that his actions are adhering to the rules at a higher level of fidelity than is normal for the rest of the comic, because if they weren't it wouldn't be possible to deduce anything from them.

[Carl]

Personally i think he will turn out to have a template or some other weird special factor applied to him. But that when it's revealed it will be so obvious in hindsight we'll wonder how the hell we never saw it beforhand.

Thats the nature of good reveals, it's not that they where impossible to guess, but that despite clues staring you in the face you failed to see it.

Now what those clues are i'm less sure about. I'm just confident there's somthing we haven't pickup up on, or haven't understood the importance of. I just don't have a clue what it is.

[BloodSquirrel]

But MitD's species was determined back when adherence to the rules was a priority. Also, the fact that people are supposed to be able to figure out what MitD is based on what he does suggests that his actions are adhering to the rules at a higher level of fidelity than is normal for the rest of the comic, because if they weren't it wouldn't be possible to deduce anything from them.

Neither of these things is in evidence. First off, not everything was planned from comic #1, and some stuff that was has been changed. V's gender, for example. Second, even if the MitD's species was planned back when the comic was more about the rules, that doesn't mean anything when a lot of the abilities it has shown have come along much later.

Meanwhile, where was it ever said that we were "supposed" to be able to figure it out? The Giant never framed it as an intentional rules-based puzzle that we were supposed to be trying to solve, he said that some people would probably figure it out- probably because, with any internet fandom, people will do enough guessing that somebody is bound to guess right as long as it's not something absolutely insane.

[InvisibleBison]

Meanwhile, where was it ever said that we were "supposed" to be able to figure it out?

War and XPs page 368, as quoted in section 1a of the first post. I think you'd benefit from rereading that entire section, actually; pretty much all of your points are already addressed there.

[Carl]

Neither of these things is in evidence. First off, not everything was planned from comic #1, and some stuff that was has been changed. V's gender, for example. Second, even if the MitD's species was planned back when the comic was more about the rules, that doesn't mean anything when a lot of the abilities it has shown have come along much later.

Meanwhile, where was it ever said that we were "supposed" to be able to figure it out? The Giant never framed it as an intentional rules-based puzzle that we were supposed to be trying to solve, he said that some people would probably figure it out- probably because, with any internet fandom, people will do enough guessing that somebody is bound to guess right as long as it's not something absolutely insane.

1. Check the start of the thread, direct quote from the Giant that we can figure it out and it's a published creature of some sort.

2. Also in the same quote he stated he didn't start fleshing the plot out and decide exactly what MitD was until around strip 100. Thats very different from your claimed strip 1. 100 is definitely still in the phase where the rules where followed more closely.

[BloodSquirrel]

1. Check the start of the thread, direct quote from the Giant that we can figure it out and it's a published creature of some sort.

I've read all of that. I'm not seeing the part where he specified "Published creature". Meanwhile...

A lot of people have asked me whether there is any actual answer to the mystery of the Monster in the Darkness that could possibly satisfy after so many years of wondering and guessing and weighing characteristics against existing monsters and otherwise just generally thinking about it.
The answer to that question is yes. Yes, there is.

I've been imagining the scene for MITD's eventual reveal for like nine years now

The reveal is a crucial part of the story and it will happen when it's time for it to happen.

None of these say "Obscure monster that 99% of my audience has never heard about" to me. It's really hard to see how the reveal can be a crucial part of the story unless the information that said reveal reveals to us is dramatic in nature. The MitD turning on Xykon and Redcloak might dramatic by itself, but it would having nothing (so far as the story has been developed) to do with what type of creature it is. It would just be "The MitD has finally reached the point of full self-actualization! And also he's the creature from page 132 of the 3.5 MM supplement 'Really Ugly Monsters'. "

[Grey_Wolf_c]

The more important takeaway, IMO, is that it has to be a dramatically interesting monster.

No it doesn't. The reveal, which will reveal his species, can be dramatic without having the species reveal be part of the drama, just a necessary part of the scene. Your entire thesis fails the moment you disregard Ruck's approach.

INone of these say "Obscure monster that 99% of my audience has never heard about" to me.

"I trust that someone will figure it out eventually." implies he a) thinks it can be figured out, so it is not simply unguessable and b) it is difficult enough to figure out that he doesn't expect everyone to figure it out. As far as I am concerned, that pretty much eliminates all the famous monsters, whatever "famous" means. Which nevertheless leaves the hundreds if not thousands of "obscure" ones.

GW