Results 121 to 150 of 1472
Thread: MitD XV: The Other Dark One
-
2020-07-18, 05:25 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2019
- Gender
Re: MitD XV: The Other Dark One
Some of them can look a lot weirder. Note this is a Pathfinder example, so this wouldn't be an MiTD candidate.
Last edited by catagent101; 2020-07-18 at 06:18 PM. Reason: them not the
mew
-
2020-07-18, 05:45 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2010
- Gender
Re: MitD XV: The Other Dark One
-
2020-07-18, 05:49 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2012
- Location
- Ottawa, Canada
- Gender
-
2020-07-18, 05:56 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2006
- Location
- The sticks
- Gender
Re: MitD XV: The Other Dark One
"You are what you do. Choose again and change." - Miles Vorkosigan
-
2020-07-18, 05:59 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2007
Re: MitD XV: The Other Dark One
That's not a burden that needs to fall on anyone in particular, though. As someone pointed out already, worst case, no extra work for anyone: we can simply eliminate FBS Condition #6, and leave it at that. From that moment on, anyone who wishes to nominate some creature and "minimally defend it", whether it's a new one or one that is already in 3e, then that creature will be judged according to the new (size-free) set of FBS conditions.
And to answer Crusher regarding the yellow eyes: I did make sure to specify that those characteristics are all "AFAIK", because most of my Ha-Naga knowledge comes through the lens of 3Power. (I was going to refer you to him on the question of the yellow eyes, but that won't be necessary.)
And to Sir_Norbert: yes, I'm aware it's been discussed a lot, but from what I recall, a good chunk of that discussion was "waaaaay too big, it's a no go, as per official FBS rules; next topic!"Offer good while supplies last. Two to a customer. Each item sold separately. Batteries not included. Mileage may vary. All sales are final. Allow six weeks for delivery. Some items not available. Some assembly required. Some restrictions may apply. All entries become our property. Employees not eligible. Entry fees not refundable. Local restrictions apply. Void where prohibited. Except in Indiana.
-
2020-07-18, 06:48 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2006
- Location
- The sticks
- Gender
Re: MitD XV: The Other Dark One
Oh, sure, that’s how I took your post. I didn’t mean that I disbelieved you, I just didn’t know where the evidence was.
For the Ha-Naga, personally, I think it’s too big but that’s maybe... 5th on my list of problems with it. Ok, I’m out so this is off the top of my head...
#1 - lack of STR (which is compounded by its size. I don’t like Telekinesis as an answer but I’ll explain why later)
#2 - Doesn’t look weird enough. Snake with a woman’s head isn’t that weird or hard to identify
#3 - Defenses aren’t great (I’m now second guessing if this is accurate)
#4 - Could potentially cast Raise a dead
#5 - Too big. Which, as I mentioned when asking for an FBS rule-change vote, I don’t think is a problem on its own. It’s only a problem because it compounds #1. Shrink it down to Huge and it has a STR of 11. That’s a problem.
And beyond that, speaking only for myself, the Ha-Naga is an inelegant solution to the problem. It is only minimally better a candidate than a human with the Ha-Naga’s casting ability would be.Last edited by Crusher; 2020-07-18 at 06:54 PM.
-
2020-07-18, 06:53 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2007
Re: MitD XV: The Other Dark One
It is also:
#6 not surprising it can talk, as Keltest mentioned a page or so ago,
#7 has no limbs to carry stuff with of pull on ropes,
#7b if we're going with the handwave "oh, it cast mage hand all the time to accomplish everyday tasks", one has to wonder what took RC so long to figure out if psionics are a thing in OotS.#8 the spell that "explains" the tower doesn't, as someone pointed a page ago.
#9 a child/pre-teen would not have access to the level 8 & 9 spells needed (e.g. wish)
But, according to lio45, all this is just "too big, next topic", it seems.
Grey WolfLast edited by Grey_Wolf_c; 2020-07-18 at 07:46 PM.
Interested in MitD? Join us in MitD's thread.There is a world of imagination
Deep in the corners of your mind
Where reality is an intruder
And myth and legend thrive
Ceterum autem censeo Hilgya malefica est
-
2020-07-18, 07:24 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2015
- Gender
Re: MitD XV: The Other Dark One
"Rule of funny" as a justification for MITD's powers would destroy the guessing game.
Agreed, and while I haven't voted yet, I've been leaning towards making no changes or minimal changes (and am strongly against altering or removing the FBS) because the bolded strikes me as the primary reason people are interested in changes.
-
2020-07-18, 07:30 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2007
Re: MitD XV: The Other Dark One
Last edited by Grey_Wolf_c; 2020-07-18 at 07:39 PM.
Interested in MitD? Join us in MitD's thread.There is a world of imagination
Deep in the corners of your mind
Where reality is an intruder
And myth and legend thrive
Ceterum autem censeo Hilgya malefica est
-
2020-07-18, 08:08 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2007
Re: MitD XV: The Other Dark One
? It's plainly the other way around: nothing in the current FBS criterion about the Tower Scene excludes magic.
Exact wording, which doesn't exclude magic nor make physical strength mandatory:2) Has a plausible explanation for the Tower (both his attack and his defence)Offer good while supplies last. Two to a customer. Each item sold separately. Batteries not included. Mileage may vary. All sales are final. Allow six weeks for delivery. Some items not available. Some assembly required. Some restrictions may apply. All entries become our property. Employees not eligible. Entry fees not refundable. Local restrictions apply. Void where prohibited. Except in Indiana.
-
2020-07-18, 08:12 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2006
- Location
- The sticks
- Gender
Re: MitD XV: The Other Dark One
Regarding TK instead of STR, other folks have laid out the various concerns with sheer power, but my issue is different. And two-fold.
First, if MitD is using STR, the Tower scene means they’re attempting to hit lightly but even his lightest swing is gigantically hard.
But if MitD is a Ha-Naga who uses Mage Hand daily for interacting with things, then the issue is different. This is already a spell with a very low power ceiling. But, in an attempt to hit as lightly as possible, he instead uses a completely different spell which is gigantically more powerful.
I get that MitD has powers he doesn’t understand, but as a Ha-Naga, he DOES understand Mage Hand since he uses it daily. It’d be like if I wanted to crack an egg, and I haven’t cracked an egg before. But I understand the basic idea and I have a bowl I use daily.
If I accidentally hit the egg too hard against the bowl and smoosh it, that’d be understandable. I don’t have much practice. But me head-butting the egg (using a completely different ability when I already have practice at the right tool for the job) would just be weird. To me, that’s how it comes across.
Secondly, Ha-Naga’s have powerful tails, with which they’re good at hitting people. Sure, they generally don’t like melee, but MitD just proposed a “hitting” game. He knows what “hitting” means, and as a Ha-Naga he’d have a way of doing it. It’d be weird of him to then cast a high-level spell instead."You are what you do. Choose again and change." - Miles Vorkosigan
-
2020-07-18, 08:24 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2006
- Location
- The sticks
- Gender
Re: MitD XV: The Other Dark One
I think you might have misread Lio45’s post. They aren’t saying they think we should brush past objections and accept the Ha-Naga. They’re saying they got the perception people were saying the Ha-Naga was too big, and then dismissed its good points.
I feel that’s an inaccurate memory of the discussion, rather than a brusque gesture.Last edited by Crusher; 2020-07-18 at 08:24 PM.
-
2020-07-18, 08:24 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2007
Re: MitD XV: The Other Dark One
I agree with everything you just wrote above; no doubt the simplest and most direct explanation for the Tower Scene is ridiculously high STR - which _is_ how some of the main front-runners explain that scene. (Among those, my favorite two, Sleeplax and Protean.)
That said, there could conceivably be other ways of explaining what's observed in the Tower Scene.Offer good while supplies last. Two to a customer. Each item sold separately. Batteries not included. Mileage may vary. All sales are final. Allow six weeks for delivery. Some items not available. Some assembly required. Some restrictions may apply. All entries become our property. Employees not eligible. Entry fees not refundable. Local restrictions apply. Void where prohibited. Except in Indiana.
-
2020-07-18, 08:36 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2006
- Location
- The sticks
- Gender
Re: MitD XV: The Other Dark One
Sure, I agree. The D&D world is full of odd things. I can envision some kind of Gambit (X-Men) like monster that imbueS things with kinetic energy by touching them or looking at them, inflicting damage or flinging them away. That’d work pretty well (for the Earthquake, too). But we don’t have anything like that, afaik.
At the end of the day, the list is practical more than anything else. My default question when someone wants to change a rule is “What candidate would it affect?” If the answer is “None”, then why bother? I like arguing minutia as much as the next person, but to actually get things done you need a concrete example, because that’s what the discussion is about, really. The Xeno...cryth? Is entirely responsible for this vote attempt having traction when the last one didn’t.Last edited by Crusher; 2020-07-18 at 08:37 PM.
-
2020-07-18, 09:17 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2007
Re: MitD XV: The Other Dark One
Not to worry. You're hardly the first to think that because I separate templates and creatures, that somehow means they aren't "allowed". In fact, thinking back on it, it comes up often enough I've gone ahead and written it into the FAQ. So if anything, thanks for giving me the push in the right direction.
Grey WolfInterested in MitD? Join us in MitD's thread.There is a world of imagination
Deep in the corners of your mind
Where reality is an intruder
And myth and legend thrive
Ceterum autem censeo Hilgya malefica est
-
2020-07-18, 09:24 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2007
Re: MitD XV: The Other Dark One
It would be surprising for a creature to speak if your BGH manual makes no mention of it, despite every other creature that speaks mentioning it.
It's funny how everyone overlooked that little section of the SRD for years and as soon as someone spotted it Rich and the BGHs automatically knew about it as well.
Originally Posted by Catagent101
Originally Posted by Crusher
Originally Posted by Grey Wolf
Originally Posted by lio45
Originally Posted by Grey Wolf
-
2020-07-18, 09:47 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2019
- Gender
Re: MitD XV: The Other Dark One
Well... there was also the bit about MiTD being incapable of handling Xykon's phylactery without breaking it. Or at the very least Power Ranger toys. In other words the Giant has made a joke about MiTD's strength at least twice (potentially 3 times if you count the earthquake scene).
Now that I think about it, the earthquake scene is kind of the reverse of the tower scene.
Tower scene: paladin captured -> feat of strength (punch) -> MiTD feels bad -> paladin escapes
Earthquake scene: paladin escapes -> MiTD feels bad -> feat of strength (earthquake) -> paladin captured
Maybe I'm missing some details or am reducing it down too much (I haven't checked the scenes at the moment) but it seems interesting nonetheless.mew
-
2020-07-18, 09:48 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2007
Re: MitD XV: The Other Dark One
Yeah, if we accept that anything sufficiently intelligent automatically speaks multiple languages, then we kinda have a problem, because "whatever MitD is" has to both be dumb enough not to speak anything yet intelligent enough to play Go, perform trenchant political analysis, etc.
I see pretty much only one way to reconcile all the observations: MitD is a high INT creature that doesn't have "Speaks Common" as an explicit characteristic, and in this universe, high INT doesn't automatically mean "speaks Common".Offer good while supplies last. Two to a customer. Each item sold separately. Batteries not included. Mileage may vary. All sales are final. Allow six weeks for delivery. Some items not available. Some assembly required. Some restrictions may apply. All entries become our property. Employees not eligible. Entry fees not refundable. Local restrictions apply. Void where prohibited. Except in Indiana.
-
2020-07-18, 09:51 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2013
- Location
- Europe
- Gender
Re: MitD XV: The Other Dark One
Except for the Half-Green-Dragon Half-Green-Dragon Half-Green-Dragon Half-Green-Dragon Half-Green-Dragon Young Adult Green Dragon, which looks exactly like a mutant freak that you would exhibit in an old-timey circus even if they do nothing. The main problem is that it can't do the escape, but most other dragons can't either.
-
2020-07-18, 09:51 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2013
- Gender
Re: MitD XV: The Other Dark One
It being able to speak in common, specifically, was an afterthought. The primary surprise was that it speaks at all. Given that the MITD is obviously capable of speech, that rules out anatomical constraints against speech, so were left with "it normally chooses not to speak (to humans?) for whatever reason" as the most likely explanation.
ETA: and before anybody says it, the Ha-naga has a human face and enough intelligence to speak. There is no reason to be surprised that it speaks unless the SBGHs are woefully uninformed and cannot be taken as authority in the first place (which there is no evidence for).Last edited by Keltest; 2020-07-18 at 09:58 PM.
“Evil is evil. Lesser, greater, middling, it's all the same. Proportions are negotiated, boundaries blurred. I'm not a pious hermit, I haven't done only good in my life. But if I'm to choose between one evil and another, then I prefer not to choose at all.”
-
2020-07-18, 10:24 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2006
- Location
- Meridianville AL
- Gender
Re: MitD XV: The Other Dark One
Amend my vote to C>I>B>Z. The xeno whatever is an undersized gargantuan, it fits better than it's combination of size and strength would normally imply.
If adding !Anything else to the end of my vote would make a difference, do so, but I tend to think Z covers that.
-
2020-07-19, 12:18 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2007
-
2020-07-19, 01:09 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2007
- Gender
Re: MitD XV: The Other Dark One
H and I. And I want to register Xenocryst as my guess.
I has Trophies!
Spoiler
-
2020-07-19, 01:11 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2006
- Location
- The sticks
- Gender
Re: MitD XV: The Other Dark One
Teleport on its own is a terrible answer for the Escape Scene. It requires a fantastically improbably lucky roll by MitD. That would make it a deal-breaker (instead of merely bad) if comparably improbable things hadn’t happened sufficiently often already for V and Elan to have joked about it... twice, I want to say?
However, if combined with some form of mind reading, telepathy (Unlikely since no one ever talks about talking to MitD telepathically) or trace teleport for MitD to find out where V came from, it actually becomes fine. While the fight was going on MitD could have been reading Vs mind or just chatting with them, finding out where a safe place was. Then MitD could simply teleport them there.
Wish is a better answer, but Teleport covers the minimum, especially with mind-reading.Last edited by Crusher; 2020-07-19 at 01:12 AM.
-
2020-07-19, 02:21 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2009
- Gender
Re: MitD XV: The Other Dark One
What do you people make of the scene in 709:
MitD talking about a cutting board instead of drawing board, and a demon roach questioning whether he had been drawn in the first place.
Seems like a weird joke to me, or I don't get the reference?
Or some hint? But at what does it point?Boytoy of the -Fan-Club
What? It's not my fault we don't get a good-aligned female paragon of promiscuity!
I heard Blue is the color of irony on the internet.
I once fought against a dozen people defending a lady - until the mods took me down in the end.
Want to see my prison tatoo?
*Branded for double posting*
Sometimes, being bad feels so good.
-
2020-07-19, 02:31 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2004
Re: MitD XV: The Other Dark One
The creature has never actually been drawn, or this thread would not exist as everyone would know what he looks like.
I'm pretty confident you won't find a hint to the creature's identity in a fourth-wall-breaking joke about the comic's art.Orth Plays: Currently Baldur's Gate II
-
2020-07-19, 02:38 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2009
- Gender
Re: MitD XV: The Other Dark One
1. What about the cutting board then? What does it mean?
2. Why does the roach put it as a question then?Boytoy of the -Fan-Club
What? It's not my fault we don't get a good-aligned female paragon of promiscuity!
I heard Blue is the color of irony on the internet.
I once fought against a dozen people defending a lady - until the mods took me down in the end.
Want to see my prison tatoo?
*Branded for double posting*
Sometimes, being bad feels so good.
-
2020-07-19, 02:49 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Sep 2017
Re: MitD XV: The Mother Dark One
Last edited by Ortho; 2020-07-19 at 03:00 AM.
The Everyman's Guide to Taking Up Arms - A Guide to Fighters
Practical Magical Gadgetry - A Guide to Artificers
Avatar courtesy of the webcomic Aurora, drawn by Red
-
2020-07-19, 02:55 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2004
Re: MitD XV: The Other Dark One
Orth Plays: Currently Baldur's Gate II
-
2020-07-19, 03:12 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2009
- Gender
Re: MitD XV: The Other Dark One
Yeah I googled it and found what it is, but I don't get the joke
ETA:
Since I have always found it weird as just a joke, I had the feeling it might be half joke and half hint.
What I thought is that that scene might point to MitD coming from a media that is NOT about drawing (not drawn in the first place).
Is there some artist technique that specifically requires cutting boards? Like modeling statues from gypsum or something? I have no idea about this stuff, and it might also purely be a language thing, that's why I ask if someone else made something of this scene that I didn't think of.Last edited by Mightymosy; 2020-07-19 at 03:26 AM.