Results 211 to 240 of 1472
Thread: MitD XV: The Other Dark One
-
2020-07-20, 12:01 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2019
- Location
- Magrathea
- Gender
Re: MitD XV: The Other Dark One
An explanation of why MitD being any larger than Huge is implausible.
See my extended signature here! May contain wit, candor, and somewhere from 52 to 8127 walruses.
Purple is humorous descriptions made up on the fly
Green is serious talk about hypothetical
Blue is irony and sarcasm
"I think, therefore I am,
I walk, therefore I stand,
I sleep, therefore I dream;
I joke, therefore I meme."
-Squire Doodad
-
2020-07-20, 01:59 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2014
Re: MitD XV: The Other Dark One
The GDGU discussion thread says it is a Carbuncle. I am unsure what writeups I am allowed to link, but I found one writeup that has the following ability:
Fatal Faker (Su)
As a standard action three times per day, a carbuncle can teleport as per the spell dimension door, but only within a range of 30 feet. Upon teleporting, the carbuncle leaves behind a perfect replica of itself amid a colored flash and the sound of a reptilian choke. This replica duplicates the carbuncle in all ways, though it is obviously dead and the colorless stone in its head is reduced to worthless dust.
...but yeah, that is a Supernatural ability so it's a no go for a Protean to copy. Dimension Door doesn't have enough range anyway.
-
2020-07-20, 02:24 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2007
Re: MitD XV: The Other Dark One
-
2020-07-20, 02:26 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2013
- Gender
Re: MitD XV: The Other Dark One
Im personally disinclined to move the Ha-naga into that category even if we do get rid of the "its probably not these guys" subtext. Two people across a decade does not a popular suggestion make.
“Evil is evil. Lesser, greater, middling, it's all the same. Proportions are negotiated, boundaries blurred. I'm not a pious hermit, I haven't done only good in my life. But if I'm to choose between one evil and another, then I prefer not to choose at all.”
-
2020-07-20, 02:53 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2007
Re: MitD XV: The Other Dark One
I agree with Schroeswald. If we find "unlikely" to be too rude, then how about naming that category "Frequently Proposed Problematic Ideas"? As you (GW) point out, the sentence that opens up the category lets that cat out of the bag anyway. That problematic part is an essential characteristic of the ideas that are in that category: they aren't merely frequently proposed, they're frequently proposed AND have one (or more) major problem(s).
So, given how that entire category is about the fact that these ideas are problematic and that anyone who thinks of bringing them up for the nth time should address whatever known problem there is with their candidate while doing so, it seems normal to have the category title reflect that reality, no? We want to make sure every newcomer knows this category is for entries that are by consensus known to be officially problematic in a major way.Offer good while supplies last. Two to a customer. Each item sold separately. Batteries not included. Mileage may vary. All sales are final. Allow six weeks for delivery. Some items not available. Some assembly required. Some restrictions may apply. All entries become our property. Employees not eligible. Entry fees not refundable. Local restrictions apply. Void where prohibited. Except in Indiana.
-
2020-07-20, 04:00 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2013
- Location
- Europe
- Gender
Re: MitD XV: The Other Dark One
That's a good argument that I haven't heard (although I already thought a specific teleport effect more likely). With the caveat that, if the creature is something like a Zodar that can cast Wish once in his life, then they probably either have enough XP for that one Wish or the XP requirement for a baseline Wish is waived for them.
MitD may just want O-Chul to be together with his other friends (other than himself and V). Or he may want to send them to whereever Vaarsuvius came from. Or O-Chul told him some more details about himself between #550 and #561 and now the MitD wants to send O-Chul to Hinjo. Any of those would probably work as a baseline wish.
Those were the priorities earlier. In #661 fourth and fifth panel, O-Chul clearly says that he and Vaarsuvius must escape now, and the MitD can hear that.
I think rumors about this are heavily exaggerated. English often compouns nouns by putting anything before them without any marks to connect them. English just chooses to spell those unmarked compounds with a space between them, unlike German or Hungarian. That space is an artifact of current writing rules, not something really inherent to English, although it may help with D&D spells that have a word count. I believe it is actually the wrong choice, because those unmarked noun phrase constructions are part of the reason why English is often hard to understand, and spelling such words ran together (with a hyphen in words where running them together would be confusing) might improve readability. (Ironically, running the words together may be the wrong choice for Hungarian, where such compounds are easy to recognize most of the time because of the case endings and clearly distinguishable verbs.) Admittedly English uses somewhat fewer unmarked noun compounds than German or Hungarian, because English often replaces them with obscure words chosen from a huge vocabulary of uselessly specific words that speakers have to learn individually, instead of using compounds with an obvious meaning in their place.
Noted, thanks. I don't read that comic, so I didn't know these details.
That sounds likely. The main reasons why D&D creatures have a size listed is because larger creatures are easier to hit and take up more than one square of space. The size also matters for some other reasons, like how heavy melee weapons they like to fight with, but those are less important.
As an aside, how do we know that his age was exactly ancient? She cast a 7th level spell Greater Teleport, ancient black dragons normally cast spells up to 5th level. She said "I too have a passion for the arcane arts...even moreso than others of my kind.", so it's possible that she's ancient, but my guess would be wyrm.
-
2020-07-20, 04:08 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2007
Re: MitD XV: The Other Dark One
I'm told that wishes cast as part of a SLA, SU or EX ability don't require paying XP costs. As far as I know, though, Ha-Naga casts as a sorcerer, and would be required to pay the XP cost.
Rich has called her Ancient when talking about her - for example, here.
Is there an explanation why the purple worm (length: 80 ft) is Gargantuan (max length: 64 ft)?
So wouldn't you be in favour of eliminating the FBS list? If there is no limit to the number of creatures in it, wouldn't it be better if it was just every creature in one long list?
If not, what is the actual limit of creatures you'd think appropriate?
Grey WolfLast edited by Grey_Wolf_c; 2020-07-20 at 09:29 PM.
Interested in MitD? Join us in MitD's thread.There is a world of imagination
Deep in the corners of your mind
Where reality is an intruder
And myth and legend thrive
Ceterum autem censeo Hilgya malefica est
-
2020-07-20, 04:14 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2007
Re: MitD XV: The Other Dark One
Sure, because as far as they know, they are absolutely not in a position to do anything about Xykon other than trying to live to fight another day. That they have an ally with access to Wish is information that would change this calculation.
That scene shows MitD deciding that _he_ wants O-Chul to be safe, over anything else.
As Kish points out, it rules out MitD telepathically "consulting O-Chul" to inform him that stuff like Wish or Miracle is available, then coordinating whatever he's going to do next with O-Chul.Offer good while supplies last. Two to a customer. Each item sold separately. Batteries not included. Mileage may vary. All sales are final. Allow six weeks for delivery. Some items not available. Some assembly required. Some restrictions may apply. All entries become our property. Employees not eligible. Entry fees not refundable. Local restrictions apply. Void where prohibited. Except in Indiana.
-
2020-07-20, 05:01 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2007
- Location
- Oregon, USA
Re: MitD XV: The Other Dark One
Probably. But if you're asking me, all I can do is theorize: I note that the 3.0 SRD lists the purple worm as Gargantuan despite occupying 30x30 feet coiled (which is the typical space for the large Colossal size category)....I imagine the 3.5 designer(s) prioritized keeping its 15-foot reach as a long Gargantuan creature, and didn't bother with the flavor text.
Last edited by Jasdoif; 2020-07-20 at 05:01 PM.
FeytouchedBanana eldritch disciple avatar by...me!
The Index of the Giant's Comments VI―Making Dogma from Zapped Bananas
-
2020-07-20, 05:15 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2007
Re: MitD XV: The Other Dark One
Speaking of Gargantuan worms, this official SRD source that is one of the very first two that show up with a google search of "ha-naga" says it's Gargantuan, not Colossal:
https://www.5esrd.com/gamemastering/...tions/ha-naga/Offer good while supplies last. Two to a customer. Each item sold separately. Batteries not included. Mileage may vary. All sales are final. Allow six weeks for delivery. Some items not available. Some assembly required. Some restrictions may apply. All entries become our property. Employees not eligible. Entry fees not refundable. Local restrictions apply. Void where prohibited. Except in Indiana.
-
2020-07-20, 05:24 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2007
- Location
- Oregon, USA
Re: MitD XV: The Other Dark One
If OOTS updates to fifth edition and MitD suddenly shrinks, we might have something there....
ETA: Wait, just remembered: Colossal isn't a size category in 5e; the scale goes from Tiny to Gargantuan, so this isn't necessarily representative of anything...which I guess means MitD shrinking would be an even more explicit hint if it happened?Last edited by Jasdoif; 2020-07-20 at 05:36 PM.
FeytouchedBanana eldritch disciple avatar by...me!
The Index of the Giant's Comments VI―Making Dogma from Zapped Bananas
-
2020-07-20, 06:29 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2007
Re: MitD XV: The Other Dark One
Offer good while supplies last. Two to a customer. Each item sold separately. Batteries not included. Mileage may vary. All sales are final. Allow six weeks for delivery. Some items not available. Some assembly required. Some restrictions may apply. All entries become our property. Employees not eligible. Entry fees not refundable. Local restrictions apply. Void where prohibited. Except in Indiana.
-
2020-07-20, 09:17 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2006
- Location
- The sticks
- Gender
-
2020-07-20, 09:58 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Sep 2017
Re: MitD XV: The Other Dark One
No, I like the FBS list. I just disagree with one* of its criterion.
There shouldn't be one.
If a creature fits the big scenes, put it on the list. I fear that if we limit the size of the list to an arbitrary number, we'll end up excluding some perfectly good candidates.
By the way, you said to holler if Lio45 changes his vote?
*Ok, two. 30 STR seems rather arbitrary to me, but I don't want to derail the conversation, and I'm sure some helpful individual will point me towards how we arrived at that number anyways.The Everyman's Guide to Taking Up Arms - A Guide to Fighters
Practical Magical Gadgetry - A Guide to Artificers
Avatar courtesy of the webcomic Aurora, drawn by Red
-
2020-07-20, 10:13 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2007
Re: MitD XV: The Other Dark One
"Stronger than Roy", and rounded to 30. And, honestly, that's being generous. 30 is very low to be lightly hitting people through walls.
OK, gotcha. But here's the thing, we wouldn't end up with a long list - we'd end up with an empty one. Because if we get really strict about fitting the FBS (wish, strength past 40, vomit-inducing), we end up with no candidates at all. So, obviously, we don't, instead we allow a bit of leeway. And how much leeway is exactly what we are voting on. IMnpHO, MitD won't grow to be gargantuan, so by your logic, we should not even consider such creature, because something that big doesn't fit any of the scenes. Others, of course, disagree, and instead say we should, say, only allow wish-capable monsters.
But the thing is, these "truly fit the scenes" approaches to the FBS list aren't actually useful. If we are extreme exclusionists, insisting in only allowing the best possible explanation to each scene, we end up with an empty list. If we are extreme inclusionists, allowing whatever handwave explanation, no matter how flimsy, we end up with, well, 3e. The sweet spot is, I think you'd agree, somewhere in the middle - thus my question to you of where you'd see that sweet spot. And because the question "what is the exact set of conditions that explain the scenes perfectly" is not answerable, I don't even try - but I can say "how many FBS entries is ideal, so that there aren't so few it feels like we've figured out the finalists, and not so many it's a chore to read through all of them", and then tweak the strictness of the filter to end up with that number. Make sense?
And that's the thing - what you might call "perfectly good candidates" can't be. Because if they were, they'd be in the list already, and we'd have made it more difficult to be in the list, so we'd exclude the candidates that are not as good as those. Why would we want to place gargantuan candidates, when we have smaller ones that already fit the FBS at least as well as they do, and don't require MitD to have to grow 10-fold before adulthood?*
*To be clear, this exact same argument can be done by changing the specific characteristic to whichever argument can be made against it - why keep teleport creatures when we could limit it to wish, why keep only moderately ugly creatures when we could limit it to truly disgusting ones, why keep 30-STR creatures when we could limit it to 40+, etc.
Indeed I did. Thanks.
Very late ETA:
Strength is easy to check, and I know that the number of monsters with 38+ strength in 3e is extremelly limited. I was far less sure about the number of gargantuan+ creatures with 30+ strength. Thus, sight unseen, I didn't want to commit to doing A, but I knew that the effort involved in the other options was significantly less. Since then, though, enough people have stepped up to the plate and done the heavy lifting of checking the 3e section for me, for which I am most grateful.
Grey WolfLast edited by Grey_Wolf_c; 2020-07-20 at 10:51 PM.
Interested in MitD? Join us in MitD's thread.There is a world of imagination
Deep in the corners of your mind
Where reality is an intruder
And myth and legend thrive
Ceterum autem censeo Hilgya malefica est
-
2020-07-20, 11:57 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2014
- Location
- A Michigan Far, Far Away
- Gender
Re: MitD XV: The Other Dark One
Look at what happens when I take a few days away from the computer.
B, H, I -> Z
I think that means any of B, H, or I, no preference, and if none of those, then Z. Correct? I still haven't mastered this voting system.
-
2020-07-21, 12:10 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Sep 2018
Re: MitD XV: The Other Dark One
Changing vote to A > F > !(D, E, H, Z).
-
2020-07-21, 07:28 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2007
Re: MitD XV: The Other Dark One
Technically not, that's "B, H & I together, or not at all", but I've recorded it as "Any of (B, H, I)", which is what you describe. At voting time, it'll count for individual votes for all three, but if the vote is between them (e.g. B vs H), it'll cancel itself out.
GWLast edited by Grey_Wolf_c; 2020-07-21 at 07:42 AM.
-
2020-07-21, 05:31 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2019
Re: MitD XV: The Other Dark One
Votes:
My vote is A>H>I
My vote is Xenocrysth > Protean
On size:
In my mind, the MitD has been clearly flagged by Rich as being smaller than its rulebook size and that it will one day be some degree of enormous. There's no way to say definitively what size the creature is, although as the base creature gets farther away from Huge/Gargantuan (either smaller or larger), it becomes less likely for a variety of reasons- the Tower Scene, reader incredulity and frustration, the logic of Rich making that choice and then subsequently putting it under an umbrella/in a box. That's not enough to go on to pin him down to a particular size, so I think the size limitation should be scrapped, and size should be considered holistically.
On the creature:
Xenocrysth gets treated by RC & X the way I'd expect such a thing to be treated- a big ugly meathead. He also treats himself the way I'd expect a childlike version of such a creature to treat himself. It has innate powers that neither big bad would necessarily be aware of and it's believable that it could use them accidentally. If that Psionic Teleport was Reality Revision or Wish, it'd be a slam dunk for me. But since there are no slam dunks out there, I'll take my new friend the Xenocrysth.
I ultimately pushed Xenocrysth up ahead of Protean because although it connects beautifully with some storytelling elements it doesn't really connect with the way the character interacts with others and is interacted with- it seems to have a unitary sense of itself, they have a sense of it as a stable 'that', and it desires constancy and stability in a way that doesn't make sense for a Protean. If Xykon had a Protean, he'd be exposing it to new creatures to mimic, training it, helping it understand its capabilities. If MitD was a Protean, wholly alien to the universe, what motivation for seeking to belong and be understood? Finally, 'it can do any of these things because it can transform into anything' feels like a bit of a storytelling/guessing game cop-out. It's not quite Pun-Pun, but it's edging into that territory.
P.S.
I won't give it the dignity of an official guess but I keep coming back to a Pseudonatural Hollyphant because it would just be much funnier than anything else. It falls short in so many important ways that I'm sure it won't be that, but can't you just see the big reveal happens and it's a wee little golden elephant with tentacles sticking out every which way. No one is remotely intimidated... then it transforms into a huge shaggy elephant with tentacles sticking out every which way. Just a crack up.Last edited by Jaziggy; 2020-07-21 at 05:32 PM.
-
2020-07-22, 05:56 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2007
Re: MitD XV: The Other Dark One
I will vote E > D > A > G > H > Z
-
2020-07-22, 06:37 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2012
- Gender
Re: MitD XV: The Other Dark One
I'll vote:
A > G > H > C > BLast edited by Vulkos; 2020-07-22 at 06:38 AM.
-
2020-07-23, 12:03 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2007
- Location
- Beverly, MA, USA
- Gender
Re: MitD XV: The Other Dark One
I've been offline for a while and then had to spend days catching up with this thread. Yikes.
Anyway, my votes are B > C > A > F > I > Z. I like the idea of removing the size requirement while adjusting for strength, although I think it might be too restrictive to require Large creatures to have 38+ Str, Huge creatures to have 46+ Str, etc. Still, that might be better than no change at all.Number of Character Appearances VII - To Absent Friends
Currently playing a level 20 aasimar necromancer named Zebulun Salathiel and a level 9 goliath diviner named Lo-Kag.
-
2020-07-23, 02:40 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2007
Re: MitD XV: The Other Dark One
We wouldn't "require" these creatures to have that STR. It would simply be MitD's estimated adjusted STR if he were of that species.
Now, _if_ a given creature (in practice, it's the case for most of them) has no other explanation for the Tower Scene (and I'd go as far as to say the Earthquake too, though that's not a FBS condition) than pure physical strength, then it will be this adjusted strength that'll be the figure used. By community consensus, to satisfy the Tower Scene via physical strength requires >=30 STR, at the very least. (That's a low boundary, on purpose.)Offer good while supplies last. Two to a customer. Each item sold separately. Batteries not included. Mileage may vary. All sales are final. Allow six weeks for delivery. Some items not available. Some assembly required. Some restrictions may apply. All entries become our property. Employees not eligible. Entry fees not refundable. Local restrictions apply. Void where prohibited. Except in Indiana.
-
2020-07-23, 02:44 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2007
- Location
- Beverly, MA, USA
- Gender
Re: MitD XV: The Other Dark One
Number of Character Appearances VII - To Absent Friends
Currently playing a level 20 aasimar necromancer named Zebulun Salathiel and a level 9 goliath diviner named Lo-Kag.
-
2020-07-23, 07:06 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2017
- Location
- Illinois, United States
- Gender
Re: MitD XV: The Other Dark One
So I'm kind of curious why this thread generally leans toward MitD being only one creature. Slaadi change color in various ways, and there is a part of me that wonders if the Darkness itself doesn't serve an additional purpose: Slaadi change type when they recluse for a year.
One of the reasons that people seem to keep discounting Slaadi is that they would by necessity have to be particularly old. Is that true though? I've seen references that say that Green Slaadi can change to Grey with a year in seclusion, without listing how old the Green Slaad would have to be to undergo that year. Grey Slaadi can change into Death slaadi by apparently eating the corpse of a Death Slaad. Death Slaads can become White slaads with a year in seclusion, same with White -> Black.
This, for me, Becomes a valid reason why MitD is kept in the dark: Xykon or RC are actually using the darkness as a forced evolution process. The hunters may have only found a Green Slaad 29 years ago, with it changing into a relatively young Grey Slaad before it became Xykon's cohort. Xykon, knowing that it was so young and likely easy to control, could have fed it the corpse of a death slaad (MitD did say Xykon was always trying to get it to eat babies, what else was he trying to get it to eat?) The time spent in Gobbotopia in the box could have been the transition to a White Slaad, explaining the spontaneous appearance of the Greater Teleport ability that it didn't know it had.
At the time of the dungeon of dorukan, a Death Slaad (or even Grey) would have been really problematic for the order. The best way for Xykon to make sure that he still has a secret weapon is to make sure that it grows stronger at least as fast as the order does.
I could totally see the Darkness itself being a part of what makes the MitD strong, rather than just being a simple plot device for a super dramatic reveal.
-
2020-07-23, 07:47 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2010
- Gender
Re: MitD XV: The Other Dark One
"In the dark, but frequently chatting with others" is very much not the same as "in seclusion", and I'm not sure if there's been enough years in-comic (not counting the stuff in SoD) regardless. but otherwise that's an interesting idea. Grey to Death is plausible, at least, and maybe Green to Gray could have happened at an unusually young age in the forest.
-
2020-07-23, 08:31 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2019
- Gender
Re: MitD XV: The Other Dark One
None of the MM slaadi have sufficient capabilities to be MiTD. See this post in the LA assignment thread if you want a breakdown of their abilities (note that stats are conveyed as bonuses. +10 Strength for example is 20 Strength in the statblock. And also somewhat sensationalized). None of them have an explanation for the tower scene nor the escape.
The ones that do have abilities that could explain either scene (Black/White Slaadi) are the ones that need to hang out for a hundred years, decide to self-isolate for a year (chaos is surprisingly procedural it seems), and then come back as their respective forms. Citation (scroll down to ecology).mew
-
2020-07-24, 08:54 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2017
- Location
- Illinois, United States
- Gender
Re: MitD XV: The Other Dark One
Not necessarily true actually. Prismatic Slaadi can alter any Slaad into any other type at will. (Reference: Here
In fact, that in particular path gives bonus points to the question about whether he travelled to the Astral plane; as that's where Prismatic Slaadi live. That would make that comment a big clue.
Now I'm thinking that he could have just been a super-young slaad that got Prismed into a really really young White/Black Slaad.
-
2020-07-24, 09:11 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2010
- Gender
Re: MitD XV: The Other Dark One
That post was published in 2020, much too late. It mentions an "original version" but provides no reference. The involvement of a Prismatic Slaad would require that such a thing was extant back when strip 100 was written (and that it had the same Alter Slaad ability as the version on that tumblr). Can you demonstrate such a thing?
-
2020-07-24, 10:50 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2017
- Location
- Illinois, United States
- Gender
Re: MitD XV: The Other Dark One
This is the oldest reference I could find: 2003 vintage. I don't know when strip 100 came out. This one does not mention being able to change the type of other Slaadi though, or even the greater teleport, so I'll look for that.
Last edited by Kashem; 2020-07-24 at 03:05 PM.