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  1. - Top - End - #301
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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VIII

    When some of Sigil's factions were forced to merge in order to remain in the city, what became of their strongholds and offices elsewhere?
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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VIII

    Quote Originally Posted by Bohandas View Post
    When some of Sigil's factions were forced to merge in order to remain in the city, what became of their strongholds and offices elsewhere?
    The fates of the various factions continued into 3rd edition: most of them decamped elsewhere on the planes, to their other strongholds, which are specifically beyond the power or attention of the Lady of Pain (she may have ultimate cosmic power, but she occupies an itty-bitty living space).

    Manual of the Planes (3.0) and the Planar Handbook (3.5) covers most of the new headquarters for the factions, such as they exist after the Faction War. The Athar were originally said to be hiding at the base of the Spire of the Outlands (which Sigil is at the top of), where even divine power was diminished, but by 3rd edition seem to have decamped to the Astral Plane to observe the dead gods there. The Doomguard have four fortresses among the inner planes of Air, Fire, Earth, and Negative Energy, where they observe entropy. The Fated set up shop on Ysgard. The Mind's Eye (formed from the Believers of the Source and the Sign of the One) are now operating in the Outlands. The Society of Sensation decamped to Arborea, but they do still apparently operate the Civic Festhall in Sigil. The Transcendent Order operates out of Elysium. And the Xaositects end up in Limbo, of course.

    Now, it should be mentioned, as of Planar Handbook, it seems as if elements of these factions do operate to greater or lesser degree in Sigil... without the displeasure of the Lady of Pain. No explanation is given whatsoever, and I haven't heard that any was given in any later sources. If I were permitted a theory on the matter, I could surmise that the Lady simply wanted the factions disabled as social and political powers that were unduly taking control of parts of her city: so long as they have given up attempting trying to "rule" Sigil unilaterally, they are permitted to act on behalf of those who do not even belong to their faction. This is the only justification I can find that makes sense, given that both Arwyl Swan's Song, current leader of the Sons of Mercy, and Rhys (who is, in theory, still in charge of the Transcendent Order) both are listed as "authority figures" for Sigil in the Planar Handbook. But it should be noted that neither of these individuals really hold a lot of power: Rhys is simply a member of the city council, of which there are other voices (and votes), and Arwyl probably operates as law-enforcement only at the Council's decree (and, thus, answers directly or otherwise to non-faction members).

    Of course, I defer to the superior knowledge of afroakuma and others, as I must confess to having lapsed in my keeping up of D&D lore through 4th edition, and only recently was able to review sections of Mordenkainen's Tome of Foes, which had some additional lore for a few planar topics.

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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VIII

    I think Bohandas was asking about the event in the long past when the Lady declared that the number of factions in Sigil shall be reduced to fifteen, not the much younger event when the Lady banished the factions.

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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VIII

    Quote Originally Posted by Eisfalken View Post
    Of course, I defer to the superior knowledge of afroakuma and others, as I must confess to having lapsed in my keeping up of D&D lore through 4th edition, and only recently was able to review sections of Mordenkainen's Tome of Foes, which had some additional lore for a few planar topics.
    Neither 4e nor 5e is considered relevant to this thread.
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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VIII

    I have a question about Pillar of Skuĺls. Doesn't it, in some aspects, break the major laws of the setting? It's on Lawful Evil Baator, but people who go there are betrayers and liers - and those should go to Carceri. Also they do retain literally all memories of every head present. How is this possible lore-wise? Are there other similar places or entities?

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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VIII

    Quote Originally Posted by Tzardok View Post
    I think Bohandas was asking about the event in the long past when the Lady declared that the number of factions in Sigil shal be reduced to fifteen, not the much younger event when the Lady banished the factions.
    This is correct. Did the mergers have any meaning or effect outside of Sigil?
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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VIII

    Quote Originally Posted by Edreyn View Post
    It's on Lawful Evil Baator, but people who go there are betrayers and liers - and those should go to Carceri.
    Not always. It's based on alignment, mostly.
    Last edited by enderlord99; 2020-12-31 at 04:00 PM.
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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VIII

    How does Carceri "enforce" its metaphysical themes? I've heard Afro describe it as a bucket-of-crabs mentality, a prison where sheer paranoia and spitefulness are the biggest bars in the wall. I also recall that there's some kind of curse alleged to be on the plane so that even if you escape it you're likely to end up back there again, although I'm not sure of the details or if this is actually true...

    I can understand how petitioners would be basically locked into that narrative, because they're petitioners, but Carceri is also used as an actual prison to banish things you don't want to see again, right? Some of the entities stuck there, presumably, aren't even neutral/chaotic evil, or at the very least are practical enough to not be naturally predisposed to self-sabotaging vindictiveness.

    So, how does the plane keep its whole vibe going? Does it meddle with the minds of people who are there, or manipulate circumstances subtly to encourage the behaviors it wants? Or is it purely cultural factors, being surrounded by other paranoid and spiteful people tending to rub off on you?
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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VIII

    Quote Originally Posted by Eurus View Post
    How does Carceri "enforce" its metaphysical themes? I've heard Afro describe it as a bucket-of-crabs mentality, a prison where sheer paranoia and spitefulness are the biggest bars in the wall. I also recall that there's some kind of curse alleged to be on the plane so that even if you escape it you're likely to end up back there again, although I'm not sure of the details or if this is actually true...
    Curse is a strong word, but it's essentially right: If you ever were in Carceri, you are likely to end up there again. This is subtle, just a manipulation of probability; if you are on the Astral and fleeing something by throwing yourself into the first available color pool, chances are that it goes to Carceri. Things like that. It certainly won't get you out of places with a better hold on you, like the Demiplane of Dread, Athas or the Demiplane of Imprisonment.

    I can understand how petitioners would be basically locked into that narrative, because they're petitioners, but Carceri is also used as an actual prison to banish things you don't want to see again, right? Some of the entities stuck there, presumably, aren't even neutral/chaotic evil, or at the very least are practical enough to not be naturally predisposed to self-sabotaging vindictiveness.
    Besides the fact that one-way portals into Carceri are much more common than two-way portals that allow escape, legend holds that people imprisoned in Carceri can only escape if they have become stronger than whoever put them there. Not quite sure how exactly that works.
    Also, the gereleth are the self-appointed prison wardens and bully other prisoners into "behaving". Sometimes they are even allowed to leave to hunt down escapees.

    So, how does the plane keep its whole vibe going? Does it meddle with the minds of people who are there, or manipulate circumstances subtly to encourage the behaviors it wants? Or is it purely cultural factors, being surrounded by other paranoid and spiteful people tending to rub off on you?
    Mostly the second part, I think.

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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VIII

    When Petitioners fuse with their Outer Plane, does their actual soulstuff disperse into and infuse the firmament of that plane?

    If the Outer Planes are predominantly shaped by the collective belief of living beings, how intrinsic to their structure/integrity is this diffused soulstuff?

    Do most non-sentient animal souls and the souls of infants end up in the Outlands by default, or does their lack of belief lead their soulstuff to be "recycled" by the Postive Energy Plane?

    Do transcendent Petitioners in a Divine Realm only infuse with that Divine Realm, or to a lesser extent with the Plane as a whole too? If the former, could a particularly prevalent group of Gods come to alter the shape of an Outer Plane through channeling a disproportionate amount of soulstuff available to the planar fabric?
    Last edited by Dalmosh; 2021-01-01 at 09:41 PM.

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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VIII

    Quote Originally Posted by Dalmosh View Post
    Do most non-sentient animal souls and the souls of infants end up in the Outlands by default, or does their lack of belief lead their soulstuff to be "recycled" by the Postive Energy Plane?
    Infants go to Celestia as part of some enigmatic phenomenon. In the same way, the souls of wild animals go to the Beastlands and the ones of domesticated animals to Bytopia.

    Do transcencent Petitioners in a Divine Realm only infuse with that Divine Realm, or to a lesser extent with the Plane as a whole too? If the former, could a particularly prevalent group of Gods come to alter the shape of an Outer Plane through channeling a disproportionate amount of soulstuff available to the planar fabric?
    Petitioners of deities fuse with their deity, not the plane that deity happens to dwell on.

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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VIII

    "Infants go to Celestia as part of some enigmatic phenomenon. In the same way, the souls of wild animals go to the Beastlands and the ones of domesticated animals to Bytopia."

    Seems like a fairly recent hijacking of the default order of things to me. Guardinals and Archons deciding what's best for those without the capacity to choose is getting into some murky ethical waters, especially since Zaphkiel won't reveal anything about what actually goes on in Chronias. Do infant orcs go to Chronias too? What about Mindflayer tadpoles?

    Bytopia makes sense for particularly faithful loyal dogs and horses, but that should be an exception rather than a rule. If you're not inherently aligned, and you're not sentient then you can't really make moral choices in a meaningful way that fits with the nature of the Great Wheel.
    Last edited by Dalmosh; 2021-01-01 at 10:07 PM.

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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VIII

    Quote Originally Posted by Silent Alarm View Post
    I am in Sigil and I want to be mazed. What is the most efficient way to get Mazed by the Lady without her killing you? Can you simply walk up to here and ask to be Mazed?
    There really is no guaranteed method, as noted - she's notoriously inscrutable about how she chooses to solve problems. It is generally more likely to be mazed for causing disruption among society than by damaging the city or assaulting her personage (including her servants), which is far more often punished by immediate murdering.

    Quote Originally Posted by Larbek24 View Post
    I have some questions about animi and souls.
    First of all living, mindless and some undead, mindless creatures have an animus, intelligent creatures have souls (exept elementals and outsiders that technically are souls) and constructs have an animating force (usually an elemental). Is that right or are already some of my basics wrong?
    That's the gist - to possess a life force is to have an animus of positive energy; to be a mindless undead is to have an animus of negative energy.

    2. Incarnum is a magic substance made up of soul energy but is it possible that Incarnum is created from animi?
    Incarnum is made up of the same stuff that makes up positive animi, yes.

    3. Plants and oozes are normally mindless and have animi but do intelligent one like treants have souls (and would something like a treant soulmeld be possible)?
    Intelligent plants have souls, yes. No reason you couldn't have some sort of treant soulmeld in theory.

    4. Do warforged and other intelligent constructs have a real soul or an potentially better animated force (or an animus)?
    Warforged are odd specifically because Eberron treats it as an open question - but since they can be resurrected, they have some kind of positive energy animating force.

    5. If somebody uses "awaken" on a tree or "awaken vermin" on vermin does he create a new soul for that now sentient being or does he 'upgrade' the animus into a soul?
    The spell awaken uses up some of the caster's own soul energy to help the animus evolve into a developed soul - this is the XP cost. Similar spells such as awaken object (which isn't working with any existing animus, and is using a humanoid's brain as a very loose template) take massively more XP to cast. Awaken sand is much cheaper, and is likely tapping some elemental property to draw forth an animus of a different sort and upgrade it - the resultant being does have the Earth subtype. Awaken undead is a thinner and more fraudulent version of the same idea - you are feeding the undead entity qualities of a soul, but the magic is pinning it in place, and a dispel can end that entirely (note the duration is permanent, unlike the instantaneous duration of other awakening effects).

    Edit: 5.5 Does the 'upgraded' animus disappear like a normal animus or is the creature able to go into an afterlife?
    It has developed a soul in the conventional sense and can proceed to an afterlife. It should be noted that animals already have souls to begin with - it's only mindless living things that do not.

    6. Do the spells "awaken construct" and "incarnate construct" create a soul or do they change the animated force and what happens to the animated force if it doesn't change especially in the case of "incarnate construct"?
    Incarnate construct is a similar idea to awaken construct - you are using powerful magic in tandem with the template from a living being and your own soul energy to convey a living soul into the construct.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bohandas View Post
    When some of Sigil's factions were forced to merge in order to remain in the city, what became of their strongholds and offices elsewhere?
    Many of them remained intact as sects - these can be found scattered around the Great Wheel, including the Ring-Givers, Incantifiers, and Mathematicians among others. Some, of course, became abandoned.

    Quote Originally Posted by Edreyn View Post
    I have a question about Pillar of Skuĺls. Doesn't it, in some aspects, break the major laws of the setting? It's on Lawful Evil Baator, but people who go there are betrayers and liers - and those should go to Carceri. Also they do retain literally all memories of every head present. How is this possible lore-wise? Are there other similar places or entities?
    Liars come in many stripes - Carceri collects particular kinds of liars and traitors, and they need to belong to that plane. The Pillar of Skulls is also in part "curated" by the baatezu from "trophies" they have collected in the Blood War, so it's not entirely composed of "locals."

    Quote Originally Posted by Eurus View Post
    How does Carceri "enforce" its metaphysical themes? I've heard Afro describe it as a bucket-of-crabs mentality, a prison where sheer paranoia and spitefulness are the biggest bars in the wall. I also recall that there's some kind of curse alleged to be on the plane so that even if you escape it you're likely to end up back there again, although I'm not sure of the details or if this is actually true...
    Not a curse, so much as the nasty fact that once you've spent time in Carceri's environment of selfish backstabbing paranoia, it tends to leave its mark - and it has an unfortunate way of getting under your skin. Nothing magical compels you to come back.

    I can understand how petitioners would be basically locked into that narrative, because they're petitioners, but Carceri is also used as an actual prison to banish things you don't want to see again, right? Some of the entities stuck there, presumably, aren't even neutral/chaotic evil, or at the very least are practical enough to not be naturally predisposed to self-sabotaging vindictiveness.

    So, how does the plane keep its whole vibe going? Does it meddle with the minds of people who are there, or manipulate circumstances subtly to encourage the behaviors it wants? Or is it purely cultural factors, being surrounded by other paranoid and spiteful people tending to rub off on you?
    The power of Carceri-as-prison is that in order to escape, you have to be stronger than whatever put you there to begin with. This does not need to mean literal strength, but it does mean you need to in some way demonstrate the capability to remove yourself from the plane - not just the technical capacity ("I could if I wanted to") but the actual means, motive, and desire. That's a hard combination for some of its most powerful prisoners, such as the Titans, whose sense of entitlement and nursing of grudges, combined with resentment toward mortals for following the Olympian pantheon, means they are constantly limited in going forth from their bondage by the sheer spite they feel ("why should I go to Olympus? I'd just have to deal with Zeus looking smug, and anyway mortals don't deserve my aid...")

    For others, who didn't necessarily belong there, the challenge may be more physical in nature - certainly the gehreleths don't want people leaving. Stay long enough, and you will eventually fit right in - Carceri is six flavors of misery and all of them looooove company.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dalmosh View Post
    When Petitioners fuse with their Outer Plane, does their actual soulstuff disperse into and infuse the firmament of that plane?
    Yep.

    If the Outer Planes are predominantly shaped by the collective belief of living beings, how intrinsic to their structure/integrity is this diffused soulstuff?
    In the long term, essential.

    Do most non-sentient animal souls and the souls of infants end up in the Outlands by default, or does their lack of belief lead their soulstuff to be "recycled" by the Postive Energy Plane?
    Infants are taken up into Chronias. Animals go to the Beastlands, or (depending on the local pantheon) are cycled through a reincarnation and given a chance to be something new and different.

    Do transcendent Petitioners in a Divine Realm only infuse with that Divine Realm, or to a lesser extent with the Plane as a whole too? If the former, could a particularly prevalent group of Gods come to alter the shape of an Outer Plane through channeling a disproportionate amount of soulstuff available to the planar fabric?
    Transcendent petitioners in a divine realm merge with their deity, not the realm, so no.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dalmosh View Post
    Seems like a fairly recent hijacking of the default order of things to me. Guardinals and Archons deciding what's best for those without the capacity to choose is getting into some murky ethical waters, especially since Zaphkiel won't reveal anything about what actually goes on in Chronias. Do infant orcs go to Chronias too? What about Mindflayer tadpoles?
    Any soul which has not yet had the chance to take on definition and form astral links to any kind of principle on its own, including infant orcs (but not mindflayer tadpoles, which are nonsapient in that stage of life and have an animus, not a soul), goes to Chronias. This is not Zaphkiel's decision; rather, it is his responsibility and has the concurrence of the pantheons by and large, who no more wish to see the mass exploitation of the undetermined post-birth than pre-birth (see also the Ban of the Unborn). Chronias, whatever else it is, is the most secure sanctum of Law (they have struck a covenant that they will not exploit the souls, and therefore will not) and Good (they will ensure no harm or exploitation of the souls by other parties, because it is the right thing to do) available.
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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VIII

    So mindless undead have a negative energy animus rather than a soul.

    Do non mindless undead always have a soul, and is it always the soul of the creature it was in life, or is it possible that they have a random evil soul summoned into them, or just an advanced animus?
    Obviously, something like a lich has the original creature's soul, but does a vampire? A ghoul?

    Are incorporeal undead by definition formed from the original creature's soul, or is it possible for them to be formed as an imprint from pure negative energy (or ambient soul stuff, etc)?

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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VIII

    Quote Originally Posted by aj77 View Post
    So mindless undead have a negative energy animus rather than a soul.

    Do non mindless undead always have a soul, and is it always the soul of the creature it was in life, or is it possible that they have a random evil soul summoned into them, or just an advanced animus?
    Obviously, something like a lich has the original creature's soul, but does a vampire? A ghoul?

    Are incorporeal undead by definition formed from the original creature's soul, or is it possible for them to be formed as an imprint from pure negative energy (or ambient soul stuff, etc)?
    I'm 90% sure that at least one type of intelligent undead has an animus instead of a soul: the devourer. Being soulless and driven to eat them is their shtick.

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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VIII

    This is not Zaphkiel's decision; rather, it is his responsibility and has the concurrence of the pantheons by and large, who no more wish to see the mass exploitation of the undetermined post-birth than pre-birth
    Thanks, that sums things up pretty concisely.

    What draws nonsapient animal souls towards a mildly good aligned plane? Do behaviourally deviant animals end up in Pandemonium or Carceri instead (e.g. a lion with a tendency to infanticide that is pushed out of its pride, a captive animal in a cage that becomes aggressively demented)?

    Are infant souls likely to evolve into something else based upon their environment, or do they lack the sense of self required to do so?

    What would be some of the biggest philosophical contentions/objections that the Court of Stars would have against the Celestial Hebdomad? Presumably something about tacit support for Baatezu tyranny through the Pact Primeval?

    How much do the Hebdomad likely remember of their mortal lives?

    Which member of the Hebdomad is generally the best known, and most commonly interacted with by non-archons?

    How would Morwel do things differently if she needed to take on Zaphkiel's responsibility, and was given a proportional amount of support from the Gods to do so? How about Asmodeus's duty to hold back the demons?
    Last edited by Dalmosh; 2021-01-04 at 01:48 AM.

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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VIII

    In 1st Edition, the Beastlands were the Happy Hunting Grounds. That is probably why animals are drawn there.

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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VIII

    Is there a list somewhere of all the grand libraries out there in the planes?

    Is it only the heavens that have useful libraries or are there hellish tomes hoarded in some infernal layer somewhere?

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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VIII

    Quote Originally Posted by Dalmosh View Post
    What draws nonsapient animal souls towards a mildly good aligned plane? Do behaviourally deviant animals end up in Pandemonium or Carceri instead (e.g. a lion with a tendency to infanticide that is pushed out of its pride, a captive animal in a cage that becomes aggressively demented)?
    I think it's the sympathetic connection between those planes and animals. The Beastlands and to a lesser extent Bytopia are nature affine (especially with an animal flavour) in a way the other planes aren't, and this animalness draws souls with animalness to them, just like the Chaotic Goodness of Arborea draws souls with the right amount of Chaotic Goodness to it.

    How much do the Hebdomad likely remember of their mortal lives?
    Not much, I would bet. Petitioners generally lose their memories of their lives, and the transformation into an exemplar doesn't help. Not everyone can be like Orcus and retain enough memory to be usefull; otherwise Orcus wouldn't be special.

    Quote Originally Posted by unseenmage View Post
    Is it only the heavens that have useful libraries or are there hellish tomes hoarded in some infernal layer somewhere?
    The Tower Arcane in Gehenna is the archive for all the knowledge the yugoloth have collected, curated by the arcanoloth.

    Mephistopheles has a wizard college in his capitol; I would assume that it has a library on infernal magic.

    There are one or two demon lords with a focus on books or lore, I think. Afro fleshed one of them out here.

    I also vaguely remember something about Graz'zt having a remarkable public (and remarkably public) library.

    I don't remember any others, but there are a bunch of deities of magic (Velsharoon, Melifleur, Wee Jas, Hekate) or knowledge (Aflux) on the lower planes, of which all, some or none may have libraries as part of their divine realms.

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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VIII

    Maybe it is not so much something about Bytopia and the Beastlands that draws animal souls to them, but something about Gehenna and Carceri that repels animal souls from them, sending them to the diametrically opposing planes.

    The jungles of Colothys, where liars are deceived by nature until consumed by it, is quite a stark contrast to Bytopia, where honest work tames savage nature.

    Gehenna is near pure violence, where the ground itself "hunts" anything living, a very profound opposite to the Beastlands, where nature invites all life to thrive, even though some are predators.

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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VIII

    Quote Originally Posted by aj77 View Post
    So mindless undead have a negative energy animus rather than a soul.

    Do non mindless undead always have a soul
    Nope. Some non-mindless undead are animi that come into existence mimicking memories left inside the shell of the deceased, or emotions.

    Also liches technically do and do not have souls - the soul is, of course, not in the lich.

    and is it always the soul of the creature it was in life
    See above.

    Are incorporeal undead by definition formed from the original creature's soul, or is it possible for them to be formed as an imprint from pure negative energy (or ambient soul stuff, etc)?
    Some forms of incorporeal undead are animi that emerge from negative energy coalescing around an imprint of evil in a place.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dalmosh View Post
    What draws nonsapient animal souls towards a mildly good aligned plane?
    The alignment of the Beastlands has little relevance to the animals; rather, it is the plane that most naturally hosts animal spirits because it allows them to each behave according to their nature (chaotic good) and accords a place to each, regardless of what they may be (neutral good).

    Do behaviourally deviant animals end up in Pandemonium or Carceri instead (e.g. a lion with a tendency to infanticide that is pushed out of its pride, a captive animal in a cage that becomes aggressively demented)?
    Nope. Thankfully, as petitioners in their own right, the harsh edges of their memories in life wear away, giving them a chance to act free of the worst torments they suffered in life.

    Are infant souls likely to evolve into something else based upon their environment, or do they lack the sense of self required to do so?
    Left alone? They would lack the sense of self to become something on their own.

    What would be some of the biggest philosophical contentions/objections that the Court of Stars would have against the Celestial Hebdomad? Presumably something about tacit support for Baatezu tyranny through the Pact Primeval?
    Oh, there are no end to them; they are better at keeping it sotto voce, but a few of the big ones would include...

    • The Court of Stars believes in inspiration; the Hebdomad claims to celebrate that same virtue, but their version is much more akin to evangelism, "a firm guiding hand," or the occasional kick in the seat of the pants. The Court of Stars feels that the Hebdomad's narrow view will result in an incomplete vision doomed to repeat the same mistakes over and over while insisting the fault is with those who would consider alternatives; the Hebdomad feels the Court of Stars risks giving the wrong path at the wrong time, which could result in all sorts of mess.

    • The Court of Stars has no love for demonkind, but they view the corrupting influence of devils and their cults to be a black gauntlet poised to crush Prime worlds in its inflexible grip, and wish to invest more efforts against Baator. The Hebdomad in turn despises the devils, but holds that demons' reckless urge for defilement and destruction risk the very pillars of existence, which makes them by far the more pressing threat.

    • The Court of Stars fears that direct intervention on the Prime is counterproductive, and enjoins eladrins to avoid revealing themselves while providing aid, out of concern that their influence will create dependence, overreliance, or an unwillingness to take independent choices. The Hebdomad agree that direct intervention by archons should be employed sparingly, but in turn they motivate their agents (paladins, etc.) to take a very active hand in proclaiming the nature of virtue and ensuring that mortals understand their specific view of it, lest they get the wrong ideas and stray from the most proper road to goodness.

    How much do the Hebdomad likely remember of their mortal lives?
    Most of it, but at this point each of them is so old that it's much like remembering your life at the age of three - hazy, irrelevant, and devoid of emotional attachments that were not reinforced for many cycles afterward.

    Which member of the Hebdomad is generally the best known, and most commonly interacted with by non-archons?
    Barachiel, as the chief messenger and warden of the lowest Heaven.

    How would Morwel do things differently if she needed to take on Zaphkiel's responsibility, and was given a proportional amount of support from the Gods to do so?
    His responsibility to the souls of the stillborn? She'd fail. Her instinct would always be to give choices and opportunities, which would result in the potential, however well-intended, for misuse and exploitation of those souls. Her nature is that of a muse, not a warden. She would also never ever want that job.

    How about Asmodeus's duty to hold back the demons?
    Not technically his duty in the first place so far as how things have happened to slot in; the archons would be doing it if the devils weren't. The eladrins also help out in their own way already, including making war on them directly with incursions into the Abyss.

    Quote Originally Posted by unseenmage View Post
    Is there a list somewhere of all the grand libraries out there in the planes?
    "All," no, I do not believe. There are a great many - several gods of knowledge have one, of course, as well as unique locations such as Timaresh, or Gresil's library in the depths of the Abyss.

    Is it only the heavens that have useful libraries or are there hellish tomes hoarded in some infernal layer somewhere?
    Plenty of fiends maintain collections of particularly dire tomes; the arcanaloths are quite proud of their archives, for obvious reasons, and several archdevils keep at least a few classy books, if not a whole library.
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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VIII

    What lore is there on beings that have one soul shared by two (or more) bodies? I know of the dvati race introduced in a Dragon (or Dungeon) Mag., but I don't know how canon they are.

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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VIII

    Quote Originally Posted by The Insanity View Post
    What lore is there on beings that have one soul shared by two (or more) bodies? I know of the dvati race introduced in a Dragon (or Dungeon) Mag., but I don't know how canon they are.
    There's also the gods and the planar lords, who all have various aspects and avatars running around.

    If you look at the Modrons in a certain light they're essentially all aspects of Primus

    There's also Kyuss, and other lesser worm-that-walks creatures.

    And swarm-shifter undead (Libris Mortis pg.123-127)
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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VIII

    Are there any iconic demigods exist? If so, what are their names?
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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VIII

    Quote Originally Posted by Bartmanhomer View Post
    Are there any iconic demigods exist? If so, what are their names?
    One problem is this question is that "iconic" tends to mean different things to different people, however Zagyg is pretty iconic with D&D and has Demigod rank.

    I would also consider Hercules an answer - while less iconic within D&D, he is still iconic and his D&D portrayal is as a Demigod.

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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VIII

    Another Carceri question, sorry. I'm trying to flesh out the "native fauna" and encounters, and I'm wondering what I can feasibly get away with. Obviously there's gereleths, and probably a fair scattering of yugoloths/baatezu/tanar'ri, and the smattering of creatures from elsewhere that get stuck there. I'm guessing creatures native to other lower planes like Night Hags, Barghests, Nightmares, and whatever a Yeth Hound is might also be found there in some amounts?

    -Do elementals ever end up on the outer planes? I've been led to believe that the answer is no, but I wanted to check. No earth elementals popping up on Colothys, or anything like that? Or... mephits, I guess? I honestly don't know what a mephit is, they seem to be outsiders in 3.5 and elementals in 5e.

    -The fiendish template is... let's say, widely applicable, but doesn't have much guidance for where it's appropriate. Are there a bunch of fiendish animals/fey/oozes/giants stomping around down there?
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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VIII

    Quote Originally Posted by The Insanity View Post
    What lore is there on beings that have one soul shared by two (or more) bodies? I know of the dvati race introduced in a Dragon (or Dungeon) Mag., but I don't know how canon they are.
    Dvati are canonical, yes. As noted above, they would be the most distinct mortal execution of the idea of a multiply-embodied soul. I'm not sure what specifics you are looking for outside of that?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bartmanhomer View Post
    Are there any iconic demigods exist? If so, what are their names?
    I do not understand this question. As Khedrac indicates, there are very very many demigods. By what standard are we to consider "iconic?"

    Quote Originally Posted by Eurus View Post
    Another Carceri question, sorry.
    Bah, I love Carceri.

    I'm trying to flesh out the "native fauna" and encounters, and I'm wondering what I can feasibly get away with. Obviously there's gereleths, and probably a fair scattering of yugoloths/baatezu/tanar'ri, and the smattering of creatures from elsewhere that get stuck there. I'm guessing creatures native to other lower planes like Night Hags, Barghests, Nightmares, and whatever a Yeth Hound is might also be found there in some amounts?
    Plenty of truly unpleasant things stalk Carceri; the specific fauna will vary by layer, but in general, you'd find viper trees on Othrys (and some on Cathrys), vaath on Cathrys, gautiere, utukku and wraithworms on Minethys, terlen on Porphatys, and things like abrians, bloodthorn, bonespears, and vorr scattered across most layers. Vargouilles, varrangoins, and shrieking terrors may be found here. Odopi, powerful enough to be a serious menace, also prowl the spheres. Hordlings may show up, too. Yugoloths, of course; tanar'ri; the rare baatezu. Night hags are unlikely but possible; barghests not very probable; nightmares reasonably so.

    -Do elementals ever end up on the outer planes? I've been led to believe that the answer is no, but I wanted to check. No earth elementals popping up on Colothys, or anything like that?
    In general, no, though it's always possible that the plane manifests some form of itself as an "elemental" for the purpose of causing misery.

    Or... mephits, I guess? I honestly don't know what a mephit is, they seem to be outsiders in 3.5 and elementals in 5e.
    Mephits are something like elemental imps; little pests who are outsiders native to the elemental planes. They are brought to the Lower Planes in droves to serve as messengers (or, frankly, the message in and of themselves) for evil's hoi polloi.

    -The fiendish template is... let's say, widely applicable, but doesn't have much guidance for where it's appropriate. Are there a bunch of fiendish animals/fey/oozes/giants stomping around down there?
    Othrys is a swamp, so fiendish things of a swampy nature would be most appropriate; there are also trolls there. Cathrys is a jungle and a savannah both, with expected attendant fauna. Grolantor, patron of hill giants, keeps his realm there, so fiendish hill giants are plausible. Minethys is a wicked and bitter desert, and fomorian giants may appear here, as their patron Karontor keeps his realm on this layer. Colothys is a land of sharp mountains and deep canyons, and other than Othrys is the place most likely to host tanar'ri. Here drow can also be found, followers of Vhaeraun. Porphatys is a shallow ocean, and may host nasty mockeries of Prime aquatic life, while Agathys is a frozen dead orb. Undead, of course, are always a possibility.

    To add a bit of color to fiendish creatures, you may wish to substitute out their smite good ability for a 1/day spell-like ability of suitable nature - for instance: corrosive graspSC, wall of smokeSC, inciteSC, backbiterSC, babau slimeSC, baleful transpositionSC, phantom foeSC, delusions of grandeurSC, miser's envySC, resinous tarCM, incendiary slimeCM, acid arrow, suggestion, lesser confusion, et cetera. You may also want to swap fire resistance for acid resistance - most of Carceri's native environments are at least mildly acidic, and many lethally so.
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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VIII

    Quote Originally Posted by Khedrac View Post
    One problem is this question is that "iconic" tends to mean different things to different people, however Zagyg is pretty iconic with D&D and has Demigod rank.

    I would also consider Hercules an answer - while less iconic within D&D, he is still iconic and his D&D portrayal is as a Demigod.
    What I meant by iconic is a demigod who's very popular and famous.
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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VIII

    Quote Originally Posted by Bartmanhomer View Post
    What I meant by iconic is a demigod who's very popular and famous.
    Popular and famous to whom?

    Zagyg is certainly famous on Oerth (part of his ascension to godhood was capturing demigods and successfully imprisoning them for a period of time).
    Herculs is certainly famous on earth, but I don't know any D&D world outside of Planescape where he is likely to have a following.

    As for popular, this can have different implications:
    If you mean "popular, as in a lot of people follow (worship) them" then there probably aren't any - that sort of thing tends to lead to promotion from demigod status to a higher rank. Recently ascended people with a lot of followers also go here, e.g. Al'Akbar on Oerth ("recent" is a relative term and means different things to different people like gods).
    If you would accept "popular - a lot of people like them, but don't follow them" then if there is a demigod of wine/partying in a world they might fit this category.
    (I thought that the D&D Olympian pantheon might have one of these, but their god of wine is Dionysyus who is an intermediate god; on the other hand Nike, the demigoddess of victory might count.)

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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VIII

    Quote Originally Posted by Khedrac View Post
    Popular and famous to whom?

    Zagyg is certainly famous on Oerth (part of his ascension to godhood was capturing demigods and successfully imprisoning them for a period of time).
    Herculs is certainly famous on earth, but I don't know any D&D world outside of Planescape where he is likely to have a following.

    As for popular, this can have different implications:
    If you mean "popular, as in a lot of people follow (worship) them" then there probably aren't any - that sort of thing tends to lead to promotion from demigod status to a higher rank. Recently ascended people with a lot of followers also go here, e.g. Al'Akbar on Oerth ("recent" is a relative term and means different things to different people like gods).
    If you would accept "popular - a lot of people like them, but don't follow them" then if there is a demigod of wine/partying in a world they might fit this category.
    (I thought that the D&D Olympian pantheon might have one of these, but their god of wine is Dionysyus who is an intermediate god; on the other hand Nike, the demigoddess of victory might count.)
    Depends on each plane of the famous and popular Demigods: Celestia, Eysium, Arborea, Mechanus, The Outlands, Limbo, Baator, Gehenna and the Abyss. But now I got my answer from what you're telling me.
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