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    Question Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VIII

    Quick question about the Realms goddess Shar: does she have any notable followers or minions that are vampires?

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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VIII

    Quote Originally Posted by Edreyn View Post
    Good to see a new thread from you, Afroakuma!
    1) What does the name "Baator" means, or what's it named after in real life? Other planes are named after real\mythological\historical places (Arcadia, Gehenna, Elisium) or self-explanatory (Beastlands, Carceri, Mechanus). Limbo is from Divine Comedy by Dante. But after what Baator is named?
    Baator is a made up word to replace 'Hell' and it has no meaning.

    Quote Originally Posted by Edreyn View Post
    a god-killing abomination and continued eternal devouring of everything or everyone and even gods had to flee to the edges of Multiverse.

    Are creatures like this ever mentioned and can exist, at least potentially, in the original vanilla Planescape?
    Can a mortal receive such power?
    Yes. Several such creatures all ready exist like this. Dahak, Ma Yaun(the killer of gods), Apep(Apophis), Fenris, Jormungandr and Kezif the Chaos Hound.

    The power for a mortal....doubtful.

    Quote Originally Posted by Edreyn View Post
    3) In the same game, the hero discovers a carcass of Myrkul, floating in the middle of nowhere. Some most devoted worshipers even live on it. And the player can talk and interact with Myrkul. So, the dead deity can't grant spells, but still can talk to those in close vicinity, is it so?
    From older threads of this one I also read that in some cases dead deities can return, in special circumstances.

    But can a deity be eradicated permanently?
    What happened to Aoskar? Does his remains float somewhere in Astral and can be potentially "resurrected" (far from Sigil), or he is gone completely?
    What happened to previous Mystra, Myrkul, Baal and Bane who were killed while being stripped of godhood? Are they completely gone, float in Astral or got afterlives as petitioners as mortals do?
    Well....Myrkul is a special case as he cheated death by hiding in an artifact.

    Sometimes "dead' deities can and do grant spells...sometimes another friendly god steps in to do this, and sometimes it's just a mystery. (3E even had a feat you could take to get power from a dead god).

    It's general hard to bring a god back....but possible. And anything can be eradicated.

    Sure, it's possible, in theory, to resurrect any god.

    Mystra, Myrkul, Bhaal and Bane are all special cases....see they all knew they were going to die and planned ahead. Of those four, only Mystra "really died", and it was of her own choice as she passed on her godhood and name to another.....she was eradicated(much like the Mystra before her).

    Quote Originally Posted by Edreyn View Post
    4) There are two major endless wars in Multiverse: Blood War and a war between Githyanki and Githzerai. Due to the Rule of the Three, there should also be a third one. Is there one?
    I thought of endless conflicts of Acheron, but I'd say it isn't exactly one big war with constant stalemate.
    You can't really apply the Rule of Three to something as simple as a war. After all what counts as a 'major war'. Good vs evil and law vs chaos would count as two wars, right? How about elves vs orcs? Gnomes vs goblins? The elemental wars?


    Quote Originally Posted by Edreyn View Post
    5) Some long time ago, I asked if Spire is infinite to the depth as well, and you said that it is. Can there be another city, a twin of Sigil in the depth below the Spire? Has it ever been discussed, in the lore, or in real life?
    Anything is possible sure....maybe. I've never seen any lore on it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Edreyn View Post
    Okay, but Gehenna and Limbo are still associated with Hell. Though Gehenna is a real place, it still used as synonym for "Hell". And Limbo is a "zero layer" of Hell according to Dante, and directly described as one. City of Dis and names of Carceri layers are from same source. Why those were left then?
    Classic case of slipping stuff past the radar.

    They scream "no demons no hell!"

    TSR-"Um, ok, how about Gehenna and Limbo?'

    They mumble-"Um, no problem. I don't even know those two words."

    Quote Originally Posted by Edreyn View Post
    Now that's interesting, never read about this before. I always imagined dead deities randomly floating in Astral, without any specific place, center of pattern. Where I can read more about Graveyard and Gravekeeper?
    I think the only major source is The Complete guide to the Astral Plane 2E.


    Quote Originally Posted by Edreyn View Post
    I'll update my question then: is there any additional eternal wars that aren't between deities, but between races or species? Outside of Acheron.
    Elf vs drow, elf vs orc, gnome vs goblin, dwarf vs orc, dwarf vs duegar, and all the elemental ones.


    Quote Originally Posted by Edreyn View Post
    So, this is my question. Not about this specific aspect, but the general idea. For example, Sharess is goddess of lust is considered to be an aspect of Shar, goddess of darkness. How is it possible, that both exist as characters or entities, have a physical form on Outer Planes and each with separate consciousness, but still one is a aspect aka a part of another? I mean, in Planescape cosmology deities are actually people, very powerful, but still people who behave like people, though in some cases their alignments are much more extreme then those of mortals. How can a person have aspects who have their own consciousness?
    Keep in mind the gods are a big mystery so no mortal really "knows" anything about them for sure that is a "fact".

    Sharess is an aspect manifestation of Bast...and, well, it's complicated. She has nothing to do with Shar at all, despite the similar names.

    A god is not a "person", they are beings. It's complicated, again, but technically when you see a god acting that is an avatar of the god, not the god. And avatar's are "people". Depending on the gods power level, they can have several avatars. And each avatar can be different. And gods can have aspects too.

    And that is on top of a single god can have many names and be worshiped by each.

    Quote Originally Posted by Edreyn View Post
    Are they considered canon or not?
    They are all avatars. The books even say so. Mystra, Cyric and Mask are all quite busy during those stories...and often are doing several things all at the same time. There was, for example, one bit before the climax where Mystra sends a dozen avatars out to send messages to each god she wanted to talk too.

    As Mystra, Kelvmor and Cyric were all new gods....having been mortals not to long ago....they were naturally still acting like mortals: This is a plot point in both books.

    Quote Originally Posted by Efrate View Post
    That chauntea bit brings to mind a question. Since her nature changed over eons with worshippers changing, does she remember her old self or does that chauntea not exist anymore? Is it a quiet voice in her head, kind of like the random impulse like flip that guy off when something comes up that is (hopefully) suppressed? Did that splinter offend becoming something like Malar? Is that part of her still worshipped in some weird hinterlands of primitive people? And if so does that mean that part of her exists independently or makes that voice a little more insistent?
    Well....yes. The Old, Wild Chauntea became an aspect called the Earthmother.

    Quote Originally Posted by Thurbane View Post
    Quick question about the Realms goddess Shar: does she have any notable followers or minions that are vampires?

    Dahlia Vhammos one of the leaders of the Night Masks

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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VIII

    Do I even have a job to do anymore?

    Also, a reminder, for the love of all that is ancient and Baatorian, please please please do not invoke real-world religion in this thread, lest it cease to be a thread. There is absolutely no reason to mention the holy book of any present-day religion, or to refer to old world religions in a context other than the mythologically-derived elements offered up in D&D.
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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VIII

    Okay, let's stop discussing religion-related things. I got my answer, thanks everyone.

    Afro, what's your personal opinion about anti-Sigil below the Spire?

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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VIII

    Quote Originally Posted by Bartmanhomer View Post
    What's the history of the Celestial Hebdomad and their role against the archdevils?
    What am I, chopped liver? Did anybody forget my question already?
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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VIII

    Quote Originally Posted by aj77 View Post
    What is the relationship between the Chinese Pantheon's Celestial Bureaucracy and the Celestial Bureaucracy of Kara Tur? Same Celestial Emperor, different functionary gods? Same pantheon with different names? Entirely unrelated?
    Same Celestial Emperor, different functionaries would appear to be the intent. The functionaries of Kara-Tur appear to be of minor standing compared to those of the Chinese Pantheon writ large.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bartmanhomer View Post
    What's the history of the Celestial Hebdomad and their role against the archdevils?
    A very long time ago, seven martyrs to the cause of law and good were reborn on the Mount as the first tome archons, the Celestial Hebdomad. In the time between then and now, six of them have died and been replaced.

    For the most part, their role doesn't distinctively involve challenging the Lords of the Nine; Barachiel oversees the defense of the first layer against incursion; Erathaol predicts major planar events; Raziel would be the vanguard general of Celestia if there was a need to lead a force off-plane for any reason; and Sealtiel ensures that the highest layer is protected from any unworthy beings attempting to enter.

    Quote Originally Posted by Efrate View Post
    That chauntea bit brings to mind a question. Since her nature changed over eons with worshippers changing, does she remember her old self or does that chauntea not exist anymore? Is it a quiet voice in her head, kind of like the random impulse like flip that guy off when something comes up that is (hopefully) suppressed? Did that splinter offend becoming something like Malar? Is that part of her still worshipped in some weird hinterlands of primitive people? And if so does that mean that part of her exists independently or makes that voice a little more insistent?
    Chauntea remembers herself in all aspects, she just considers herself more complete now. Aspects of Chauntea are worshiped in many lands under many names and with many attributes, though they are not independent deities. Certain principles and precepts remain central to Chauntea specifically and not other deities; for instance, she has never been a goddess of the hunt, and so veneration of the hunt would go to Malar, not Chauntea. She is not goddess of the woodlands; veneration of the forest's bounty would go to Mielikki.

    Quote Originally Posted by Edreyn View Post
    Afro, what's your personal opinion about anti-Sigil below the Spire?
    That sounds dumb.
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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VIII

    I know canon is pretty short of things to say on unique archons, guardinals and eladrin; is there any particularly good fanon?
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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VIII

    Quote Originally Posted by afroakuma View Post
    A very long time ago, seven martyrs to the cause of law and good were reborn on the Mount as the first tome archons, the Celestial Hebdomad. In the time between then and now, six of them have died and been replaced.

    For the most part, their role doesn't distinctively involve challenging the Lords of the Nine; Barachiel oversees the defense of the first layer against incursion; Erathaol predicts major planar events; Raziel would be the vanguard general of Celestia if there was a need to lead a force off-plane for any reason; and Sealtiel ensures that the highest layer is protected from any unworthy beings attempting to enter.
    What about Domiel, Pistis Sophia and Zaphkiel?
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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VIII

    I've got a question that's been bugging me. Why is Carceri, the notorious prison plane, so comparatively easy to leave compared to places like Athas, Hades, the Plane of Dread, and even Elysium?
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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VIII

    Quote Originally Posted by Bohandas View Post
    I've got a question that's been bugging me. Why is Carceri, the notorious prison plane, so comparatively easy to leave compared to places like Athas, Hades, the Plane of Dread, and even Elysium?
    It depends on what rules and what edition you use. In 2E the plane could not be left by any means other then the Styx or natural...and rare... portals on the first layer.

    So if a PC plane shifted to Carceri, they would be stuck there unless they found a way out.

    Of course, by the time of 3E, so many players whined and cried about the "unfair" stuff in D&D that they changed it to Carceri is just a place.

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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VIII

    In Planescape, the only physical exits out of Carceri are portals to the Outlands, Hades, and the Abysss on the first layers, and taking a boat on the Styx. The portals on the first layer exist only on every fifth orb, and getting a whole party from one orb to the next can be quite a challenge. And then you also might have to cross that entire orb to make the next flight to the next orb in the line. And to make things worse, most gates are guarded.

    A special rule applies in Carceri, but it doesn't really have a specific mechanic. Everyone who has been send to Carceri as a prisoner can only use the portals after they have become more powerful than the people who imprisoned them there. What specifically more powerful could mean is up to the GM case by case.

    A simple plane shift spell should also do the job, but being a 7th level spell is far out of reach for most people who have been exiled there.

    It is relatively easy to get in and out for a typical Prime party that has become powerful enough to go on adventures throughout the planes with their own magical powers. But Planescape is designed as a setting where low and mid level characters travel the planes as well. And these people are usually completely reliant on using the portals with no access to powerful spells or magic items.
    A 15th level fighter would be a very powerful opponent on a prime world, but without a 14th level cleric or wizard who comes to find him and get him out, he'd be stuck there.
    Last edited by Yora; 2020-07-28 at 03:29 PM.
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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VIII

    Quote Originally Posted by QuickLyRaiNbow View Post
    I know canon is pretty short of things to say on unique archons, guardinals and eladrin; is there any particularly good fanon?
    There is not. TSR was lazy with these, and WotC never bothered fixing it. Not a ton of demand, you understand.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bartmanhomer View Post
    What about Domiel, Pistis Sophia and Zaphkiel?
    Domiel defends the second layer and his mandate to oppose tyranny would be pointless in the Hells, not much cause for him to go. Pistis Sophia doesn't leave her layer to go poking devils, she has other things to be on with. Zaphkiel oversees all of Mount Celestia and wouldn't go down to the front lines where he'd be leaving his charge at greater risk. All of them are boring. Note: not all three. All seven.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bohandas View Post
    I've got a question that's been bugging me. Why is Carceri, the notorious prison plane, so comparatively easy to leave compared to places like Athas, Hades, the Plane of Dread, and even Elysium?
    The Doylist perspective was touched on by Lagtime and Yora; the Watsonian one is that Carceri knows who its prisoners are and are not; more importantly, it's not that Carceri doesn't want you to leave; it's that Carceri doesn't want you to be capable of escaping. Carceri has no use for a destroyed and hollowed soul like the Gray Wastes create; it doesn't want to trap you there because you've given up on being elsewhere. Carceri wants you to keep aspiring to something you can't have because you stop right before the finish line to make sure nobody else gets there. The spite, selfishness, and suspicion of Carceri are infectious in their own insidious way. Carceri is a prison whose bars are forged of one's own flaws, whose shackles are fired in the venomous certitude that you are so much better than all these other schmucks, and you just need to make sure they all get the picture before you finally given them all the laugh. It pulls you in like quicksand, until you become part of the problem and deny yourself an escape. In many ways, it's the same way that the Demiplane of Dread locks in its newest members, only Carceri wants everyone, and it doesn't so much mind if you slipped out today... if you've ever had cause to come to Carceri, then someday, you'll be back, one way or another, and the plane can wait.
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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VIII

    To my knowledge, the Planescape campaign setting did not introduce any new spells to 2nd edition. But are there any 2nd edition spells that would be a big deal for a Planescape campaign, which have not been carried over to 5th edition?

    Some spells from earlier editions that I found to be notably absent are the shadow spells, but I realized today that the Shadow Plane does not appear to be a thing in Planescape. Is it a new 3rd edition creation?
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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VIII

    Quote Originally Posted by Yora View Post
    To my knowledge, the Planescape campaign setting did not introduce any new spells to 2nd edition. But are there any 2nd edition spells that would be a big deal for a Planescape campaign, which have not been carried over to 5th edition?

    Some spells from earlier editions that I found to be notably absent are the shadow spells, but I realized today that the Shadow Plane does not appear to be a thing in Planescape. Is it a new 3rd edition creation?
    The Shadow Plane existed in 2e, but only as a particularly old, big and well-known Etheral demiplane. There were fanmade attempts to reinterprete it, for example as an Inner Plane lying on the point where Positive and Negative touch. It's status as a transitive plane is new in 3e.

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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VIII

    Quote Originally Posted by Yora View Post
    To my knowledge, the Planescape campaign setting did not introduce any new spells to 2nd edition. But are there any 2nd edition spells that would be a big deal for a Planescape campaign, which have not been carried over to 5th edition?

    Some spells from earlier editions that I found to be notably absent are the shadow spells, but I realized today that the Shadow Plane does not appear to be a thing in Planescape. Is it a new 3rd edition creation?
    The campaign setting boxed set had no spells in it, but the other books like the Planewalker Handbook did. Few of the 2E Planescape spells even made it into 3E, let alone 5E. A lot of them were very useful for planewalkers, but of little use to anyone else. They have only been updated by fans.

    The shadow plane was just the Demi Plane of Shadow back in 2E....not the big scary Shadowfall of 4E/5E. The only shadow spells in 2E were illusion shadow spells....and few were ever converted.

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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VIII

    Something else I've been wondering. Do people in the outer planes use calendars to track the passage of time? I believe none of the outer (or inner) planes have regular seasons, or any cycle other than day and night. And many not even that.
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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VIII

    Quote Originally Posted by Yora View Post
    Something else I've been wondering. Do people in the outer planes use calendars to track the passage of time? I believe none of the outer (or inner) planes have regular seasons, or any cycle other than day and night. And many not even that.
    I remember a fan-made calendar for Sigil. Was invented by the Fraternity of Law to "reflect" the Wheel. I can't find the source anymore, but I think I may have my German translation saved somewhere. If you are interested, I could search for it?

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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VIII

    Quote Originally Posted by Tzardok View Post
    I remember a fan-made calendar for Sigil. Was invented by the Fraternity of Law to "reflect" the Wheel. I can't find the source anymore, but I think I may have my German translation saved somewhere. If you are interested, I could search for it?
    I believe this is the one you're thinking of.
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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VIII

    Quote Originally Posted by Edreyn View Post
    2) There is a now old game Neverwinter Nights 2 and it has a add-on named Mask of the Betrayer. It's pre 4ed and uses standard 3.5 system and cosmology. Yet, the protagonist in this game can consume souls\spirits\whatever there is of powerful creatures and even demigods or dead deities (Myrkul).

    If the player will pursue evil storyline and do evil choices the game ending will say that he became a god-killing abomination and continued eternal devouring of everything or everyone and even gods had to flee to the edges of Multiverse.
    ...
    Can a mortal receive such power?
    I don't know about god killing, but I do know that in the Greyhawk setting the (formerly) mortal wizard Zagyg Yragerne canonically imprisoned nine low-ranking deities in his basement, as part of a (successful) plan to become divine himself. (although one of them, Iuz, doesn't count for the purpose of this question because Zagyg received direct aid from one of Iuz's divine rivals)
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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VIII

    Quote Originally Posted by PairO'Dice Lost View Post
    I believe this is the one you're thinking of.
    Exactly. Thank you!

    Also, I'd like to second the question Yora prompted: Do the Planes have seasons? Except for Arcadia (manually steered seasons that are exactly three months long) and Ysgard's first layer (more extreme versions of the normal seasons) I have no idea.

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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VIII

    Quote Originally Posted by Bohandas View Post
    I don't know about god killing, but I do know that in the Greyhawk setting the (formerly) mortal wizard Zagyg Yragerne canonically imprisoned nine low-ranking deities in his basement, as part of a (successful) plan to become divine himself. (although one of them, Iuz, doesn't count for the purpose of this question because Zagyg received direct aid from one of Iuz's divine rivals)
    In the Dragonlance Legends trilogy, Caramon Majere travels into the future, where his twin Raistlin has defeated first Takhsis, Queen of Darkness, then destroyed the other gods and all life on Krynn, save Astinus, the aspect of Gilean the Recorder, and Par-Salian, the former head of the Order of High Sorcery, who has been transformed into a marble statue and condemned to die as the last man on earth. After Caramon returns to the present, Raistlin reads his mind, accepts Caramon's experience in the future as both true and the inevitable consequence of his victory, and chooses to abandon his quest for godhood and, not incidentally, be tortured by Takhsis forever*.

    *admittedly, for a limited value of forever
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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VIII

    I've found some information about the naga deities Shekinester and Parrafaire on the internet, but with no sources. Any idea where they might be from?
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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VIII

    Quote Originally Posted by Yora View Post
    I've found some information about the naga deities Shekinester and Parrafaire on the internet, but with no sources. Any idea where they might be from?
    Shekinester seems to have been around for a long time. Monster Mythology, a 2e sourcebook, has the earliest mention. I haven't found a mention of Parrafaire outside of the 3.5 sourcebook Serpent Kingdoms, but that doesn't necessarily mean much.

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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VIII

    Quote Originally Posted by Tzardok View Post
    Also, I'd like to second the question Yora prompted: Do the Planes have seasons?
    I don't think this ever really gets mentioned. The Astral, Etherial and Elemental planes all have weather. Divine realms can have whatever weather or seasons the deity wants.

    Other planes are not natural places like the Prime, so really they would not have "seasons", but a lot more just changing weather.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yora View Post
    I've found some information about the naga deities Shekinester and Parrafaire on the internet, but with no sources. Any idea where they might be from?
    2E Monster Mythology is the first mention. After that though, there is not much. On Hallowed Ground has a bit, as does the FR Serpent Kingdoms book.

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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VIII

    Are there any named elemental cults of the para or quasi elements? I was thinking Cyronax probably has a cult, and possibly Bwimb II, but I haven't seen any reference to any elemental cults outside of the main 4 elements.

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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VIII

    Quote Originally Posted by Sharqking View Post
    I was thinking Cyronax probably has a cult
    I've heard he got so pissed that people keep mixing him up with Cryonax, he blew up Cyre.
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    Question Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VIII

    There was a 1E or 2E module where a Ki-Rin owed the party a favour. Later in the module, the party were in a Negative Energy Demi Plane of some sort (sorry for the vagueness on details, this was a LONG time ago) trying to track down an artifact to kill a lich, or something similar. When we called on the Ki-Rin to help us, he said he can't travel to that plane, as his "goodness" (i.e. Positive Energy) would cause a massive explosion if he entered a Negative Dominant plane.

    Now, its entirely possible none of this was written in the module, and was entirely the DM ad-libbing or home brewing. In fact, I suspect that to be the case.

    My loosely related question is: are there any instances where a particular creature entering a particular plane would have widespread destructive consequences, such as an explosion or similar?

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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VIII

    There was 3.0 AP that had you do a section on the plane of ice and you meet Cyronax and he sends you to someplace to continue the adventure. You get there I think from something cult related, but I cannot for the life of me remember it though I ran part of it at one point. This is all kind of fever dream haze but I do remember it.

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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VIII

    Quote Originally Posted by Sharqking View Post
    Are there any named elemental cults of the para or quasi elements? I was thinking Cyronax probably has a cult, and possibly Bwimb II, but I haven't seen any reference to any elemental cults outside of the main 4 elements.
    Cryonax apparently has a cult that mainly consists of "frost giants, malasyneps, evil arctic druids, and spellcasters who employ cold-based spells". Also, Yeti supposedly worship him as a god, as do an arctic offshoot of hobgoblins known as "amitoks".

    This cult may or may not be known as "The Frostblood Cult".

    A lot of potential Cryonax cultists are probably drawn to Thrym or Father Llymic instead.

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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VIII

    Quote Originally Posted by Thurbane View Post
    There was a 1E or 2E module where a Ki-Rin owed the party a favour. Later in the module, the party were in a Negative Energy Demi Plane of some sort (sorry for the vagueness on details, this was a LONG time ago) trying to track down an artifact to kill a lich, or something similar. When we called on the Ki-Rin to help us, he said he can't travel to that plane, as his "goodness" (i.e. Positive Energy) would cause a massive explosion if he entered a Negative Dominant plane.

    Now, its entirely possible none of this was written in the module, and was entirely the DM ad-libbing or home brewing. In fact, I suspect that to be the case.

    My loosely related question is: are there any instances where a particular creature entering a particular plane would have widespread destructive consequences, such as an explosion or similar?
    While it wouldn't exactly be widespread destruction, having a Xag-Ya enter the Negative Energy Plane or a Xeg-Yi enter the Postive Energy Plane would probably not be something you want to stand close to. They are composed of positive and negative energies respectively and have an annoying tendency to charge each other on "sight", causing a 30 ft radius explosion that deals 2d8+18 points of damage. They also otherwise do 1d8+9 points of damage upon death in a 20-ft radius if reduced to 0 hitpoints. This comes from their listing in Manual of the Planes, pages 168 and 169.
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