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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VIII

    Quote Originally Posted by afroakuma View Post
    I'm not aware of anything in particular in D&D canon, outside of the unlicensed version of that book, which references The King In Yellow, which in any event is by Robert Chambers, not Lovecraft. Afrocanon is not going to incorporate the works of H.P. Lovecraft.
    It's in Dungeon issue 134. A group of bards put on performances of The King In Yellow to summon a bunch of crazy crap from Carcosa
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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VIII

    Dungeon Mag is pretty borderline as being D&D canon. Adventures written largely by non-staff contributors, and published (under license) by a third party publisher.

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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VIII

    Quote Originally Posted by Bartmanhomer View Post
    I'm sorry if my question annoyed you. I was just only asking a simple basic question. That's all.
    The problem is, your questions aren't simple basic questions. THey are unanswerable.
    Resident Vancian Apologist

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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VIII

    Quote Originally Posted by Eldan View Post
    The problem is, your questions aren't simple basic questions. THey are unanswerable.
    Ok. I get that.
    It's time to get my Magikarp on!

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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VIII

    Quote Originally Posted by Fable Wright View Post
    This may be a conjectural question, but:

    Why is the creation of undead tied closer to religious power than arcane power? In D&D 3.5e, Animate Dead/Create Undead are easier for Divine spellcasters to cast, and they have Rebuke/Control/Turn/Destroy undead even without the use of slots. Gods, though, are across the Astral plane from mortals, while Positive/Negative energy are across the Ethereal. Outer plane sources channelling inner plane power to material plane miracle-workers seems incredibly inefficient. So why are divine beings interested in this to the point of subsidizing the magic for divine casters?
    Possibly because the creation of undead touches on the manipulation and handling of souls, which is definitely more the realm of the divine than arcane? A purely arcane approach to making undead would likely end up creating things more similar to animated objects and golems than Undead - stuff that is given an animating power or bound to an elemental spirit, but lacks the sort of inherent not-quite-life nature that makes Undead.. uh, Undead.

    The association of Positive Energy = Good = Good heroes turn or destroy undead while Negative Energy = Evil = the Evil champions of Evil Gods control undead servitors probably has more to do with old D&D tropes than any consideration of how the planes work.

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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VIII

    Quote Originally Posted by tyckspoon View Post
    Possibly because the creation of undead touches on the manipulation and handling of souls, which is definitely more the realm of the divine than arcane?
    Well, the issue with that is that animals don't appear to have souls, but making undead animals is no more difficult than making undead humanoids. Also... if undead are soulstuff rather than beings of negative energy, why are they healed by negative energy when outsiders aren't?

    Quote Originally Posted by tyckspoon View Post
    The association of Positive Energy = Good = Good heroes turn or destroy undead while Negative Energy = Evil = the Evil champions of Evil Gods control undead servitors probably has more to do with old D&D tropes than any consideration of how the planes work.
    Well yeah, I get that.

    Just trying to figure out why that might be the case in universe.
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    confused Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VIII

    Animals have souls; that has been established often enough in this thread. They canonically go to the Beastlands after death.

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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VIII

    Quote Originally Posted by Fable Wright View Post
    This may be a conjectural question, but:

    Why is the creation of undead tied closer to religious power than arcane power? In D&D 3.5e, Animate Dead/Create Undead are easier for Divine spellcasters to cast, and they have Rebuke/Control/Turn/Destroy undead even without the use of slots. Gods, though, are across the Astral plane from mortals, while Positive/Negative energy are across the Ethereal. Outer plane sources channelling inner plane power to material plane miracle-workers seems incredibly inefficient. So why are divine beings interested in this to the point of subsidizing the magic for divine casters?
    I wouldn't call it a subsidy, really; more of an insight into the different priorities in the structure of arcane magic. The practice of arcane magic was developed by different peoples with different priorities, but by and large the trend was not toward facilitating necromancy. Animate dead is by no means the only necromancy spell that clerics can do earlier than sorcerers and wizards - see contagion and bestow curse for example. It's also a pretty trivial way to create undead, in the grand scheme of things - as a spell, it takes a corpse and channels negative energy into it to create an animus that inhabits the dead body and moves it. Channelling positive and negative energy is more in the province of clerics because the antecedents of modern arcane magical practice put less of a premium on tapping the energy planes, which is harder to do efficiently due to arcane magic tapping into verbal and material components to assist in the harnessing, shaping, and direction of power (there are no languages for these planes, and neither is material). Conversely, deities have hard connections to life and death thanks to the soul cycle - it is much easier for a divine source to move positive and negative energy here and there.

    When looking at more potent methods, those which create intelligent undead, there is no difference between divine and arcane - you're not merely channelling energy at that point. In the case of create undead, it's actually a fusion of arcane and divine elements adapted by both - note the presence of the onyx gems as material components as well as ceremonial components such as grave dirt and brackish water.

    Quote Originally Posted by Thurbane View Post
    Dungeon Mag is pretty borderline as being D&D canon. Adventures written largely by non-staff contributors, and published (under license) by a third party publisher.
    For the most part, if Dungeon published it as a D&D adventure, it's considered part of canon for this thread. That said, of course, only elements within that adventure itself would be canonical; anything not represented in the adventure from the same source material would be irrelevant.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fable Wright View Post
    Well, the issue with that is that animals don't appear to have souls.
    Yes they do. Oozes, microorganisms, and nonsentient plants don't. Also vermin.
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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VIII

    Quote Originally Posted by Fable Wright View Post
    This may be a conjectural question, but:

    Why is the creation of undead tied closer to religious power than arcane power? In D&D 3.5e, Animate Dead/Create Undead are easier for Divine spellcasters to cast, and they have Rebuke/Control/Turn/Destroy undead even without the use of slots.
    Note: Dread Necromancer have Rebuke Undead too - despite being arcane caster
    Moreover: Death Master gets Animate Dead as 2nd-level spell: it's lower than for most divine casters (Divine Crusader may get it on the same class level, but it's PrC with BAB +7 requirement...)


    Quote Originally Posted by Fable Wright View Post
    Well, the issue with that is that animals don't appear to have souls, but making undead animals is no more difficult than making undead humanoids.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tzardok View Post
    Animals have souls; that has been established often enough in this thread. They canonically go to the Beastlands after death.
    While it's true for Animals, Mindless creatures are less clear cut
    Death Giants and Kir-lanan are have no souls explicitly


    Quote Originally Posted by PairO'Dice Lost View Post
    every adventure canonically assumes the adventures win, after all
    Yes. That's why they include "If you failed" section - because you're always win...


    Quote Originally Posted by Efrate View Post
    The biggest difference is the abilities a typical dnd character has vastly outstrips anything a protagonist in a cthulhu mythos has. Reshaping reality on a whim is something high level casters just do.
    Hey, stop right there!..
    You said "a typical dnd character", then "high level casters".
    A "typical dnd character" isn't high level at all (and absolutely not necessary a caster)
    While high-level caster may be, in theory, impervious to anything but DM fiat, low-level casters are, for example, dying being eaten by rats...
    I don't see what E6 (or even, for that matter, E10) caster can do versus Cthulhu


    Quote Originally Posted by Efrate View Post
    A high level fighter could get rammed by a boat and brush it off.
    I severely doubt it: Carrack - with strong wind - do on average 147 ramming damage
    Even 20th-level Fighter may be one-shot by it (at least, presuming no Improved Toughness, Diehard, or racial Con bonus), and would need to make a save versus Massive Damage regardless

    Quote Originally Posted by Efrate View Post
    Most adventures are pcs trying to stop horrific things or people from doing some destructive or world changing event. Just swap Ashardalon for Cthulhu or the like and it plays out almost identically. Mind blank prebuff over energy immunity.
    Depending on which Sanity rules we using, Mind Blank may not work
    Also, we already have example of iconic characters fighting the literal Cthulhu:



    Spoiler: they were losing badly, until Mialee hit him with Imprisonment...


    Quote Originally Posted by Batcathat View Post
    Suddenly I feel the urge to run a game where the PCs are eldritch horrors driving NPCs mad with their unknowable actions... Might be kinda fun with the right group.
    IIRR, the Savage Tide adventure path at some point allow you to "play" as one of powerful beings you're allied with - just to get the taste of how powerful they really are
    I can't find this text right now, but your allies there are: Charon, Gwynharwyf, Iggwilv, Malcanthet, and even Orcus!.. (A heck of a party!)


    Quote Originally Posted by Efrate View Post
    Typing that I thought the same thing. Or flip it. E6 game vs. normal high level players. Captures the feel better.
    Question: isn't it standard for adventures to villain of much higher level than the party?
    In some cases, level difference is up to 12 levels (The Lich Queen's Beloved)
    Or, heck, remember what Tarquin did during the confrontation! (And he's a Fighter - for crying out loud!)


    Quote Originally Posted by afroakuma View Post
    The Age of Worms in no way lays out how the multiverse will end as a result of it. Given how it was written, we actually have very little idea what the Age of Worms presages, apart from a host of unpleasantness for the particular world on which Kyuss manifests.
    There it is:
    Quote Originally Posted by Dungeon #135
    WHAT IF THEY FAIL?

    If the PCs fail to slay Kyuss within a week (or worse; if they are themselves slain), nothing can be done to prevent the Age of Worms. Over the next several days, the world slips into an era of writhing doom. Kyuss worms rain from the sky over certain parts of the world. Corpses rise within minutes of death as undead. Cities are attacked by flights of broodfiends and razed in hours. The cult of Kyuss ascends, quickly becoming one of the most powerful religions in the world. These events are not caused by Kyuss, but are in fact caused by something greater, something beyond even the gods themselves. Reclaiming the world from the Age of Worms and discovering what nameless threat is behind the apocalypse can be the foundation for an entire new campaign - one for epic-level heroes desperate to correct what they, in their failure, unleashed upon the world.

    Quote Originally Posted by afroakuma View Post
    The book laid out already what its capabilities are when freed. If you intend to argue otherwise, I would ask that you start a separate thread for it as it is not germane to the purpose of this thread. I will not engage any further on the matter.
    IMHO, it's excessive, but if you insisting - there we go!..

  10. - Top - End - #640
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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VIII

    Quote Originally Posted by ShurikVch View Post
    There it is:
    What in that says anything about the multiverse ending? It doesn't even suggest that the one Material Plane world ends, as it explicitly sets up a post-failure adventure to undo it, calls the Cult 'one of the most powerful religions in the world' rather than the only power remaining, talks about vast regions being wiped out (which suggests other regions are not, etc.)

    World-upending consequences that will at best leave devastation in their wake, yes; end of the multiverse, categorically no. As afro said in your quote: lots of unpleasantness for the world on which it is unleashed.
    Last edited by Lapak; 2021-06-25 at 11:44 AM.

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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VIII

    That... doesn't describe what happens to the Multiverse merely "the world."

    That is to say, one(1) planet within the Prime Material Plane, or AT MOST one(1) Crystal Sphere.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strigon View Post
    Wow.
    That took a very sudden turn for the dark.

    I salute you.
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    I wish it was possible to upvote here.

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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VIII

    {Scrubbed}

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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VIII

    Quote Originally Posted by Lapak View Post
    What in that says anything about the multiverse ending?
    Quote Originally Posted by enderlord99 View Post
    That... doesn't describe what happens to the Multiverse merely "the world."
    Note: powerful deities are able to reach into another spheres: like Lolth and Gruumsh are present on multiple worlds
    Once Kyuss is "one of the most powerful religions in the world" - what would prevent it from crawling into other spheres?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tzardok View Post
    {Scrub the post, scrub the quote}.
    It's untrue: I'm accepting well-proved alternate view points
    So far, I got just a metric ton of opinions ("My thread - my canon!") and very very little of actual proofs
    Last edited by truemane; 2021-06-25 at 01:23 PM. Reason: Scrub the quote

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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VIII

    Quote Originally Posted by ShurikVch View Post
    Note: powerful deities are able to reach into another spheres: like Lolth and Gruumsh are present on multiple worlds
    Correct.
    Once Kyuss is "one of the most powerful religions in the world" - what would prevent it from crawling into other spheres?
    Nothing. It definitely could, and almost certainly would, expand into other spheres. It might even, eventually, cause apocalyptic conditions on every world it reaches (although that's pure conjecture, of the sort you claim to ignore)

    It would not, however, reach every sphere simply because there are (from a Wattsonian perspective) literally infinite of them. Someone else can find the source on that (it's definitely in a Spelljammer product) because I won't bother right now.

    Anyway, even if it somehow conquered all spheres in their entirety... the Prime is not the Multiverse. Nowhere in your quoteblock was there any mention of the Elemental Planes, or the Positive- and Negative-energy Planes, or the Para-Elemental Planes, or the Outer Planes, or the Astral Plane, or the Ethereal Plane, or the Plane of Shadow, or the Plane of Mirrors, or anywhere but "The World."
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strigon View Post
    Wow.
    That took a very sudden turn for the dark.

    I salute you.
    Quote Originally Posted by AuthorGirl View Post
    I wish it was possible to upvote here.

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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VIII

    Quote Originally Posted by ShurikVch View Post
    Also, we already have example of iconic characters fighting the literal Cthulhu:

    Spoiler: they were losing badly, until Mialee hit him with Imprisonment...
    That image comes from a product which was not released under the D&D brand. d20 Call of Cthulhu is a different game with an appendix regarding compatibility with material from D&D. As I have said previously, Lovecraftian canon is not part of D&D or relevant to this thread. If you dispute that, you are more than welcome to begin a separate thread on which this topic would be germane.

    There it is:
    ..a paragraph which multiple times specifies bad things happening to "the world" and on no occasion mentions the multiverse, other planes, or even other planets? If that's your interpretation, you're welcome to it, but that's all it is - an interpretation. This text does not serve as any kind of evidence.

    Quote Originally Posted by ShurikVch View Post
    Note: powerful deities are able to reach into another spheres: like Lolth and Gruumsh are present on multiple worlds
    Once Kyuss is "one of the most powerful religions in the world" - what would prevent it from crawling into other spheres?
    It would need its representatives to get from Point A to Point B, and in sufficient numbers/with sufficient power to build his faith on those worlds. He can't just shove a priest through a gate and boom, instant access. If Kyuss annexed, say, Oerth, and then set his sights on Toril, he'd have to petition Ao for entry. If the world of Oerth was as destroyed as you infer from the above, Ao wouldn't let him in.

    So far, I got just a metric ton of opinions ("My thread - my canon!")
    Literally the purpose of the thread. If it's not for you, you are quite welcome to make your own and share your viewpoints with interested parties there.
    Last edited by afroakuma; 2021-06-25 at 01:15 PM.
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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VIII

    I finally have some new questions.

    1) Again, about the Carceri we discussed so much. How the generic approach of "crabs in a bucket" works with deities who live there? I mean actually trapped there, like Malar, and not living willingly like Vhaeraun.
    All deities have no choice but to want to be worshipped, and hence be dependent on mortals. Also, Malar does seem to care about his petitioners in afterlife, as much as CE deity can - they become predators and not prey. In comparison, Lloth tortures all her unlucky servants. So, how is Carceri ideology works with deities like Malar?

    2) And the good plane of Elysium. I read that it has a feature similar to one of Grey Waste: if someone stays there too long, he no longer wants to leave, and at some point becomes a petitioner.

    First question is more subjective and phylosophical. Why someone won't want this?! Don't ALL who believe in happy afterlife want to go there while still alive?

    Other questions are actually about rules.

    Remember when I asked if an evil person can evade going to Lower Planes by magic means? So, what if evil guy goes to Elysium and stays until merging? The locals are merciful, I don't believe they will attack or banish someone who is evil, but of small status, not a lich or tyrant, but let's say one of their followers.

    What of those who made a pact with Baatezu? Can they avoid their fate by going to Elysium and staying long enough to become petitioners? Again, I believe locals could agree to shelter them, those striking pacts with Baatezu are obviosly idiots, but maybe not evil beyond redemption. Locals might even be happy that someone truly bad loses a grip of someone's soul. And Baatezu won't be able to "sue" the very Plane itself!

    3) Many of Baator layers have large cities. How would a mortal find them - beautiful, though somewhat scary or completely disgusting? I mean only visual, smell etc, in case when a mortal is safe from any harm, like if he is watching those cities with sensory stone.
    Last edited by Edreyn; 2021-06-26 at 08:58 AM.

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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VIII

    Going to Elysium most definitely won't save you from a Pact Certain, no matter how long you (try to) stay there.

    The only possibilities after death for someone who has agreed to one of those are "Soul goes to Baator" and "Soul is destroyed before it can go to Baator." The former is vastly more likely.
    Last edited by enderlord99; 2021-06-25 at 05:03 PM.
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    That took a very sudden turn for the dark.

    I salute you.
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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VIII

    But it seems that those "trapped" in Elysium become petitioners without actually dying. Though I don't know how it's different by Planescape rules.

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    Question Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VIII

    That raises a question for me: is there anywhere that prevents souls from going to their destination plane? The mists of Ravenloft, or anything similar?

    If yes, what happens to a departed soul if it can't move on to it's afterlife? Does it become an undead?

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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VIII

    Quote Originally Posted by Thurbane View Post
    That raises a question for me: is there anywhere that prevents souls from going to their destination plane? The mists of Ravenloft, or anything similar?

    If yes, what happens to a departed soul if it can't move on to it's afterlife? Does it become an undead?
    There are a few places. Nothing that goes into the Demiplane of Imprisonment gets out. Roughly 99% of the souls of people dying on Athas get stuck in the Grey on their way to the Outer Planes and erode to nothing over the following centuries. Some speculate that the Demiplane of Dread recycles souls for new inhabitants instead of letting them out. Also, I would assume that finding your way to your proper afterlife will be... difficult if you die in the Far Realms.

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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VIII

    Quote Originally Posted by Tzardok View Post
    Some speculate that the Demiplane of Dread recycles souls for new inhabitants instead of letting them out.
    This is made explicit and a plot point in 5e's Curse of Strahd module. Many people are born without souls; the rest are born with recycled souls or come from outside; and all the other souls are locked into the mists. Not sure how canon that is in this thread, but it's supporting evidence.
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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VIII

    Stoked you're back Afro, and hope you're feeling a bit better.

    1. Assuming a Wightpocalypse able to produce templated Wight animals (e.g. using the alternative template in Dragon 300, but for whatever reason ignoring the fluff that non-humanoid Wights are very rare)...

    To what extent would Wight animals continue to differentiate themselves behaviourally and ecologically from other Wight animals of different kinds? Would this horde be fairly uniform in how it acts (aside from different intelligence from 0-2)? Or would these undead tend to emulate their original natural behaviours and habits aside from an urge to drain the energy of living things?
    Would you see things like territoriality, kinship and habitat selectivity? Would a hive of Wight ants keep working together?
    Would the answer be different for an event that instead produced free-roaming animal Zombies?

    2. If one was a Githzerai living in one of the big population centres like ShraÂ’ktÂ’lor or Zerth'Ad'lun, as a low-level bog standard Commoner or Expert, what would life be like? What sorts of things do generic urban Githzerai get up to and how would this be different from what you'd see in a human city?

    3. If you feel like speculating, and wanted to expand on the throwaway referenced Demon Lord Alrunes the Soothing Spirit (Protection/Sisterhood portfolio) which direction would you go in?
    Anything I come up with ends up feeling a bit too LE or NE for a Demon Lord.

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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VIII

    Quote Originally Posted by Edreyn View Post
    1) Again, about the Carceri we discussed so much. How the generic approach of "crabs in a bucket" works with deities who live there? I mean actually trapped there, like Malar, and not living willingfully luke Vhaeraun.
    Most of them are chained there by their own spite. The power of Carceri is the power to get you digging your own grave.

    All deities have no choice but to want to be worshipped, and hence be dependent on mortals. Also, Malar does seem to care about his petitioners in afterlife, as much as CE deity can - they become predators and not prey. In comparison, Lloth tortures all her unlucky servants. So, how is Carceri ideology works with deities like Malar?
    Deities don't need to situate their divine realms on planes germane to their attitudes toward their petitioners. Colothys happens to be a very suitable environment for Malar - the unforgiving rocky cliffs and canyons are a place of scarce resources, and the layer operates on survival of the fittest.

    2) And the good plane of Elysium. I read that it has a feature similar to one of Grey Waste: if someone stays there too long, he no longer wants to leave, and at some point becomes a petitioner.

    First question is more subjective and phylosophical. Why someone won't want this?! Don't ALL who believe in happy afterlife want to go there while still alive?
    Imagine I put you in a room, removed from friends and family, removed from all of your hobbies, everything you care about, anything which might draw your interest, and give you a button marked "happy." When you press it, you feel a sense of happiness for a little while. That's all you get. Eventually you will starve to death or die of thirst, but you'll die happy.

    Some people would choose that. Some people choose heroin, etc. etc. but the life I've described is absent any kind of fulfillment. It's bliss without purpose. What are you happy about? Nothing, really, you just are. What can you do with that happiness? Nothing, really. Anyone else nearby doesn't need you to share yours, they've got their own. It's toxic, happiness without purpose.

    Remember when I asked if an evil person can evade going to Lower Planes by magic means? So, what if evil guy goes to Elysium and stays until merging? The locals are merciful, I don't believe they will attack or banish someone who is evil, but of small status, not a lich or tyrant, but let's say one of their followers.
    Yep, Elysium can absolutely get someone with no prior stronger claim on their soul, but again, you are vastly overestimating how good a fate that would be. In the Lower Planes, an evil being might be rolling the dice on torture, but they're also rolling the dice on more power, more opportunity, more choice, more of what they like about their lives. On Elysium, they would lose everything they care about to wither into a happy little eggshell and die without relevance, without power, without opportunity, without choice.

    Most importantly, the locals know that, and the guardinals make efforts to stop people from getting entrapped. They don't want it to happen even to good-aligned beings. An evil-aligned being on the plane would be frogmarched out at best. Guardinals are empowered to make hard choices when needed.

    It is important to remember that the entrapping power of Elysium is a bad thing. It's an unintended consequence of the plane being what it is, and every bit as awful as being poisoned to death with morphine, except it also erases your afterlife by turning you into a lawn ornament. Ever seen a debate about the real morality of sanctify the wicked? Imagine if it also killed you and denied you getting to join with a deity or progress as an outsider in service to anything. Souls that become petitioners due to entrapment aren't those who have done exceptional good, they are those who have experienced exceptional good and had their identities smooshed into asphalt by it. They become pavement.

    I deeply hate spoiling anything about this show because it's so good, but it really is the best argument for the case.

    Spoiler: Spoilers for a TV comedy
    Show
    Spoiler: About the afterlife
    Show
    Spoiler: It's The Good Place, you should really just go watch it all...
    Show


    What of those who made a pact with Baatezu? Can they avoid their fate by going to Elysium and staying long enough to become petitioners?
    Nope. The devils would have gotten wise to that one millennia ago and ensured their contracts wouldn't be slipped by such an obvious move.

    3) Many of Baator layers have large cities. How would a mortal find them - beautiful, though somewhat scary or completely disgusting? I mean only visual, smell etc, in case when a mortal is safe from any harm, like if he is watching those cities with sensory stone.
    Scary, ominous, disgusting... varies by city, but even the most arguably beautiful cities of Hell are built with qualities that are inherently twisted toward diabolical sensibilities. You'd find those slowly crumbling on Maladomini, because that's what Baalzebul is all about. Looking into Baator at all is a haunting experience for most mortals, same as any Outer Plane.

    Quote Originally Posted by Thurbane View Post
    That raises a question for me: is there anywhere that prevents souls from going to their destination plane? The mists of Ravenloft, or anything similar?

    If yes, what happens to a departed soul if it can't move on to it's afterlife? Does it become an undead?
    We believe the Demiplane of Dread keeps hold of souls that have entered, except at the discretion of the Dark Powers. The Gray of Athas certainly does; it's a metaphysical trap for souls of the deceased, which might escape back to Athas as undead, or slowly degrade and decay in the endless nothing of the Gray. The Demiplane of Imprisonment lets nothing out - get caught, and you're going nowhere, ever. Some other strange planar sites have demonstrated this quality as well - the Boundless, for example. The Far Realm, being a part of no cosmology, cares nothing for the rules of this one.

    A soul somehow trapped in none of these places or otherwise restricted from heading off to its assigned rest is likely to result in an incorporeal undead of some stripe or other, yes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dalmosh View Post
    Stoked you're back Afro, and hope you're feeling a bit better.
    Why thank you!

    To what extent would Wight animals continue to differentiate themselves behaviourally and ecologically from other Wight animals of different kinds? Would this horde be fairly uniform in how it acts (aside from different intelligence from 0-2)? Or would these undead tend to emulate their original natural behaviours and habits aside from an urge to drain the energy of living things?
    Would you see things like territoriality, kinship and habitat selectivity? Would a hive of Wight ants keep working together?
    Would the answer be different for an event that instead produced free-roaming animal Zombies?
    Wights are driven by an inescapable craving to consume life energy. Regardless of intelligence, that would be their sole motivation, and you would see wight animals follow that same pattern - their original behaviors wouldn't enter into it. Their motivation for existence and activity has changed irrevocably.

    Zombies, unlike wights, have no motivation. Unless provided specific instruction by the magic that created them, or some other magic to steer them, zombie animals wouldn't pick up their old habits from life; unless prompted to attack something, they would most likely just stand still and wait, unless ordered to wander or patrol. Remember that a zombie isn't even a shadow of what it was in life, just the flesh and bones of something that was once alive. A wight knows what it once was and does not care.

    2. If one was a Githzerai living in one of the big population centres like ShraÂ’ktÂ’lor or Zerth'Ad'lun, as a low-level bog standard Commoner or Expert, what would life be like? What sorts of things do generic urban Githzerai get up to and how would this be different from what you'd see in a human city?
    I mean, you'd venture outside less; no easy access to a rural getaway or marketplace. For the most part life would be pretty similar; commoners are more than likely laborers of some stripe, while experts fill all sorts of skilled roles ranging from masons to scholars to cobblers. Githzerai have shoes, too. The main thing githzerai have that would not be common in a human city, for instance, would be the monasteries - quite simply there are more of them. They are also more likely to have schools for psionic training/associations for psionic individuals than the mage guilds of human cities.

    3. If you feel like speculating, and wanted to expand on the throwaway referenced Demon Lord Alrunes the Soothing Spirit (Protection/Sisterhood portfolio) which direction would you go in?
    Anything I come up with ends up feeling a bit too LE or NE for a Demon Lord.
    Alrunes is a nasty piece of work, a mother of monsters and patron of hags for whom Cegilune is just too darn tame. One of many unpleasant foundations for the idea of the "evil witch coven," Alrunes offers her dark services with the express aim of suborning black magic. Those who are willing to go outside the laws of gods and mortals in search of ways to protect themselves or their loved ones find a friendly ear and comforting presence in the darkness they turn to, a "soothing spirit" who nurses their fears and reassures them that they are justified in doing what they feel they must. Unlike devils, who will set a clear price for the services they offer, Alrunes makes no contracts and is more subtle in her preferred form of payment. She will allow signs and portents to leak through that expose the secrets of her supplicants to those they desired to protect, ultimately making them into sources of fear and loathing. The methods she supplies, too, will often be horrific in nature - a tax collector found torn limb from limb with his blood dousing the lintels of the supplicant's home; a local baron and his horse dragged underground by monstrous roots and thorns; the town gossip poisoned in a way that leaves her swollen and discolored, rotting into a pile of mulch from which eerie singing flowers grow.

    Ultimately, her goals are to gather women who have been exiled from society either through the wickedness of others or in the wake of her "gifts" running their course, at which time they have no one else to turn to. Alrunes offers many avenues to power in her service, from transformation into monsters of feminine aspect to the secrets of black magic. As the Dark Sisterhood grows, Alrunes schemes to use its power to make a bid for Princedom and a layer of her very own, a goal she would pursue though it would extinguish every one of her followers. The distrust, frustration, and hopelessness she sows among those who have sought her aid and paid the price for it results in the Dark Sisterhood being a poisonous and backstabbing group, consumed by wrath and despair, whose only rule is that the coven protects its own from outsiders - but not from one another, certainly. Alrunes distrusts succubi and has a stealthy rivalry with Graz'zt, another patron of witches whose methodology is quite different and whose chosen victims are often young and virginal, as opposed to Alrunes who frequently seeks out mothers and wives.

    Pacts with Alrunes are marked by tiny dolls kept in the home; these eerie tokens often give the impression of spying on members of the family, and visitors may swear the dolls have moved on their own, looking at them, or emitting sinister whispers. Supplicants of Alrunes take great care not to let these dolls be destroyed and know better than to cast them out, despite the curses that may accompany their presence - removing or destroying a doll also withdraws the protection of Alrunes, and she will gleefully dispatch the Dark Sisterhood to collect her price in blood when she is scorned in this way. Those few tomes that record the name of Alrunes are unanimous in their warnings that the demoness has but one goal - to destroy all that a desperate woman holds dear, in order to leave her nowhere else to turn.

    Alrunes has dealings with the Unseelie Court and counts chaotic evil nymphs and dryads among her followers, as well fiendish lamiae, harpies, medusae, and hags.
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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VIII

    Is Ilxendren actually the creator deity of the ixitxachitl, and if so why is he only worshipped by the ixzan?
    How does he get along with Demogorgon, considering Demogorgon poaches the worship of half his race?
    How do the Ilxendren worshipers get along with their Demogorgon worshiping kin?

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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VIII

    Quote Originally Posted by afroakuma View Post
    Nope. The devils would have gotten wise to that one millennia ago and ensured their contracts wouldn't be slipped by such an obvious move.
    I'd suggest that the Abyss is probably a better chance for getting out of a diabolical contract, as they're the plane that's actively dedicated to screwing Baator over
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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VIII

    Quote Originally Posted by Bohandas View Post
    I'd suggest that the Abyss is probably a better chance for getting out of a diabolical contract, as they're the plane that's actively dedicated to screwing Baator over
    Step one: Sell your soul to Fierna.

    Step two: Go to Shendilavri, let yourself be corrupted and sacrificed to Malcanthet.

    Step three: If you wouldn't be digested in inconceivable pain right now, you could watch the cat fight.

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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VIII

    Quote Originally Posted by aj77 View Post
    Is Ilxendren actually the creator deity of the ixitxachitl, and if so why is he only worshipped by the ixzan?
    He is not. He's not even the creator deity of the ixzan, as far as we know; Ilxendren arose during a time of profound religious schism and warfare amongst the ixzan. He's definitely bound to them as a patron racial deity, but unless he somehow survived an untold amount of time with a negligible worshipper base before reemerging with full power in a time when followers of Dagon, Demogorgon, and Panzuriel were locked in a century-long deadly conflict and actively purging heretics, there's no fathomable way he could be their creator. Now, the faithful of Ilxendren believe him to be, but the evidence for that is profoundly shaky.

    How does he get along with Demogorgon, considering Demogorgon poaches the worship of half his race?
    They're both chaotic evil and not allied, so they do not get along, but Demogorgon has too many adversaries already to care about picking a fight with a demonic manta ray god over a worshipper base he doesn't particularly need, and Ilxendren already won the chess match on the ground and is, of course, a god - he doesn't bother with Demogorgon. There's no real overlap.

    How do the Ilxendren worshipers get along with their Demogorgon worshiping kin?
    Poorly. Ixzan are substantially religious, not averse to infighting, violent and malefic, and of course a vast majority worship Ilxendren. Demogorgon worshippers are likely to be purged.
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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VIII

    Quote Originally Posted by Tzardok View Post
    Step one: Sell your soul to Fierna.

    Step two: Go to Shendilavri, let yourself be corrupted and sacrificed to Malcanthet.

    Step three: If you wouldn't be digested in inconceivable pain right now, you could watch the cat fight.
    I was thinking more of jumping into the wells of darkness, or paying off the Lords of Woe to declare the contract invalid
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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VIII

    How exactly is what a few upjumped demons say relevant to the bureaucracy and judicatur of the Nine Hells?

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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VIII

    Well you'd have to stay in the Abyss, but at that point you're probably not going to heaven anyway
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