afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VIII

[Yron]

If one were to look for pieces of the Staff of Fraz'Urb-luu, where would they look? I understand, that, given entities involved in its destruction, "literally anywhere" is probably the answer, but I would greatly appreciate your thoughts on the matter.

I just have this idea of a campaign, where the PCs are agents of Fraz'Urb-luu, scouring the planes in search of the staff. Seems like a perfect planehopping adventure framework.

What powers would individual pieces possess, if found? The artifact supposedly "combines the powers of the staff of command, a rod of beguiling, and a rod of rulership". There's also the writeup in Dragon #333 that has a complete staff.

Also, are there any mentions of Sckurchur demons outside of the 3.5 Demonomicon article? They seem somewhat random and extremely niche with "imersonating halflings and gnomes" being their shtick.

[Tzardok]

If one were to look for pieces of the Staff of Fraz'Urb-luu, where would they look? I understand, that, given entities involved in its destruction, "literally anywhere" is probably the answer, but I would greatly appreciate your thoughts on the matter.

Pandemonium's lowest layer, Agathion, is a nice place for stashing things you don't want found. Some of the planes with a lot of void between the "landmasses" (Carceri, Archeron, Gehenna) could have stashes far off the beaten paths. Depending on how difficult you want to make things non-standard planes that aren't easily found (like the Plane of Faerie, the Plane of Mirrors or the Cordant Planes) could also be possible.

What powers would individual pieces possess, if found? The artifact supposedly "combines the powers of the staff of command, a rod of beguiling, and a rod of rulership". There's also the writeup in Dragon #333 that has a complete staff.

I think it depends on how many parts there are and how powerful you want them to be. The most simple way to stat them would be in my opinion to take every spell the whole thing can cast and put it on a single piece.

Also, are there any mentions of Sckurchur demons outside of the 3.5 Demonomicon article? They seem somewhat random and extremely niche with "imersonating halflings and gnomes" being their shtick.

I didn't find anything else, but I think you misunderstand their shtick. The theme of the sckurchur is insinuating itself as a trusted advisor and then render their leader into a puppet ruler that furthers whatever agenda of chaos and evil the sckurchur has. (Also, I think their ability to prettify people at the cost of their willpower would make them popular with modelling agenturs in reality.)
The fact that they generally impersonate halflings or gnomes seems to be incidental to their shapechanging ability being restricted to their size. What other small humanoids should they disguise themselves as? Goblins?

Edit: In completely unrelated speakings, does anybody know wether the names of the layers of Gehenna, Acheron, Arkadia and the Beastlands mean anything or why they are called this?

[afroakuma]

To my knowledge, the Planescape campaign setting did not introduce any new spells to 2nd edition. But are there any 2nd edition spells that would be a big deal for a Planescape campaign, which have not been carried over to 5th edition?

I'm going with a very soft "no" on that if only because trawling through all of the 2nd Edition spells so that I can then match them against the 5th Edition list, with which I have zero familiarity, is well out of scope for me.

Some spells from earlier editions that I found to be notably absent are the shadow spells, but I realized today that the Shadow Plane does not appear to be a thing in Planescape. Is it a new 3rd edition creation?

As Tzardok mentioned, Shadow was a demiplane in 2nd Edition, although a rather prominent one (it's worth noting that shadow evocation is slightly more potent (4th level spell cap) than shadow magic, its cognate from 2nd Edition). As part of the cosmic restructuring that the Lady of Pain was forced to do in the wake of Vecna's attack on Sigil, Shadow became a true Transitive Plane.

Something else I've been wondering. Do people in the outer planes use calendars to track the passage of time? I believe none of the outer (or inner) planes have regular seasons, or any cycle other than day and night. And many not even that.

I would imagine there are methods that apply to various realms, which would also likely be the denomination for seasons in most cases. The Lower Planes all have seasons, of course, as described below:

Spoiler: Seasons in the Lower Planes

Show

• Acheron: Football and hockey
• Baator: By layer (Fireball and slightly less fireball; suppression and repression; dreary and horrid; summer x4; winter x4; gross and nasty; construction and road work; winter x8 somehow; and in Nessus it's all about the fall).
• Gehenna: Bad and worse
• Hades: By layer (Flu; winter and that part of spring where you're like "isn't it supposed to be spring now, though?"; summer and fall but exclusively the days where you're like "this isn't how this season is supposed to be, I hope tomorrow is better" and then it never will be)
• Carceri: Spring to erroneous conclusions about your neighbor's nefariousness, suimmer in discontent, fall under suspicion, and while it's never really winter you will always be getting the cold shoulder.
• The Abyss: By layer.
• Pandemonium: Tornado and hurricane.

I've found some information about the naga deities Shekinester and Parrafaire on the internet, but with no sources. Any idea where they might be from?

Shekinester and Parrafaire originated in Monster Mythology, I believe.

Are there any named elemental cults of the para or quasi elements? I was thinking Cyronax probably has a cult, and possibly Bwimb II, but I haven't seen any reference to any elemental cults outside of the main 4 elements.

None come to mind, though Cryonax definitely has Material Plane cults. The rest likely do not, though I suppose a cult of Sun Sing is a particularly eerie notion...

are there any instances where a particular creature entering a particular plane would have widespread destructive consequences, such as an explosion or similar?

I mean, "widespread" no. As Not Tzardok mentioned, the only things that annihilate are energons, and it would be a tiny little fart in a vast and uncaring Energy Plane.

If one were to look for pieces of the Staff of Fraz'Urb-luu, where would they look? I understand, that, given entities involved in its destruction, "literally anywhere" is probably the answer, but I would greatly appreciate your thoughts on the matter.

All kinds of fun places to hide things. As Tzardok noted, Pandemonium's lowest layer is a wonderful hiding place. Give one to the Sunan of the Dukhani, a valuable piece of her royal regalia that lets her see through deceptions. Sneak one into the swamps of Belierin, where the guardinals zealously protect their secrets. The sands of Pelion, the whirling ice of Ocanthus, a spell weaver tomb floating in the Ethereal Plane...

What powers would individual pieces possess, if found? The artifact supposedly "combines the powers of the staff of command, a rod of beguiling, and a rod of rulership". There's also the writeup in Dragon #333 that has a complete staff.

I mean, it depends how many pieces there are, and how interesting one wishes to get with them. I can finagle something if you're interested.

Also, are there any mentions of Sckurchur demons outside of the 3.5 Demonomicon article? They seem somewhat random and extremely niche with "imersonating halflings and gnomes" being their shtick.

Nope.

Edit: In completely unrelated speakings, does anybody know wether the names of the layers of Gehenna, Acheron, Arkadia and the Beastlands mean anything or why they are called this?

Eh, well...

Arcadia
• Abellio may have been named for a little-known Gallo-Roman pastoral deity of apple trees. When I say "may have" I mean "was."
• Buxenus was an epithet for the Gallo-Roman version of Mars, and indicates "of box trees."
• Nemausus was a deity/religious site in Celtic Occitan France.

Acheron
• Avalas may derive from French, where "aval" would indicate "downstream." Acheron is the terminus of the Styx.
• Thuldanin appears made up, though it's retroactively Dwarven in nature and is one of the Dwarven netherworlds.
• Tintibulus derives from "tintinnabulation," the sound of bells.
• Ocanthus derives from acanthus meaning "thorned."

The Beastlands
• I got nothin'. Most likely made up, or else from one of the imprecise sources often employed by Gygax and his ilk in that era.

Gehenna
• Likewise, though I will note that khalas in Arabic means "enough" and Khalas is certainly bad enough without needing to go any further down.

[Tzardok]

I would imagine there are methods that apply to various realms, which would also likely be the denomination for seasons in most cases. The Lower Planes all have seasons, of course, as described below:

Spoiler: Seasons in the Lower Planes

Show

• Acheron: Football and hockey
• Baator: By layer (Fireball and slightly less fireball; suppression and repression; dreary and horrid; summer x4; winter x4; gross and nasty; construction and road work; winter x8 somehow; and in Nessus it's all about the fall).
• Gehenna: Bad and worse
• Hades: By layer (Flu; winter and that part of spring where you're like "isn't it supposed to be spring now, though?"; summer and fall but exclusively the days where you're like "this isn't how this season is supposed to be, I hope tomorrow is better" and then it never will be)
• Carceri: Spring to erroneous conclusions about your neighbor's nefariousness, suimmer in discontent, fall under suspicion, and while it's never really winter you will always be getting the cold shoulder.
• The Abyss: By layer.
• Pandemonium: Tornado and hurricane.

Bwahahahahahaha!

I mean, "widespread" no. As Tzardok mentioned, the only things that annihilate are energons, and it would be a tiny little fart in a vast and uncaring Energy Plane.

That wasn't me, for a change. That was @Laughing Dog. But it's really kind of confusing that there are now three people in this thread with that avatar.

Eh, well...

Arcadia
• Abellio may have been named for a little-known Gallo-Roman pastoral deity of apple trees. When I say "may have" I mean "was."
• Buxenus was an epithet for the Gallo-Roman version of Mars, and indicates "of box trees."
• Nemausus was a deity/religious site in Celtic Occitan France.

Acheron
• Avalas may derive from French, where "aval" would indicate "downstream." Acheron is the terminus of the Styx.
• Thuldanin appears made up, though it's retroactively Dwarven in nature and is one of the Dwarven netherworlds.
• Tintibulus derives from "tintinnabulation," the sound of bells.
• Ocanthus derives from acanthus meaning "thorned."

The Beastlands
• I got nothin'. Most likely made up, or else from one of the imprecise sources often employed by Gygax and his ilk in that era.

Gehenna
• Likewise, though I will note that khalas in Arabic means "enough" and Khalas is certainly bad enough without needing to go any further down.

Ah, that's interesting. I was assuming that Gehenna's layer were of Hebrew origin, and had a slight leaning regarding Acheron's being Greek, but, well...
Thank you for the research.

[Thurbane]

Well, there's definitely Seasons in the Abyss...sorry

[Yron]

First of all, thank you, both Tzardok and afroakuma, for wonderful responses!

I mean, it depends how many pieces there are, and how interesting one wishes to get with them. I can finagle something if you're interested.

Oh, I'm very much interested. If it's not too much trouble.

[Efrate]

I remember seeing somewhere that there is a floating adamantine tower on the positive energy plane that's a gathering ground of sorts for healers/god of healings followers that study rare and weird conditions or somesuch. Was this a random fever dream or something that actually appeared somewhere, and if it's real what do we know about it?

[Thurbane]

I remember seeing somewhere that there is a floating adamantine tower on the positive energy plane that's a gathering ground of sorts for healers/god of healings followers that study rare and weird conditions or somesuch. Was this a random fever dream or something that actually appeared somewhere, and if it's real what do we know about it?

A quick search of 3.X sources didn't find anything. I checked the usual suspects first: Manual of the Planes, Planar Handbook, Deities and Demigods, Epic Level Handbook, Book of Exalted Deeds, Complete Divine and Complete Champion.

Web search only found mention in a home brew setting, where there are adamantine towers on the positive energy plane where it borders with the elemental plane of earth. No mention of them being bases for healers etc.

If it doesn't exist, it sounds like a pretty awesome concept, and someone should totally head-canon it!

[Efrate]

I did in a previous campaign but was wondering if there was an official something. It might have been a random one line plot hook in some book.

The Grand Hospital

Spoiler

Show

On the positive energy plane there exists a floating adamantium tower that is a spot of great pilgrimage for the devotees of the Illmater. Once you find it and gain entrance by a small teleportation circle on the ground, all manner of maladies from magical to mundane are treated by a cadre of clerics and healers of a wide variety of Faith's and of a wide variety of races. Bealnorns(good liches) make up a large amount of functionaries but nearly anyone with true devotion to helping others can be found volunteering.

Inside the positive energy exposure issue is cut off except for a few specific places where varying amounts of the plane is allowed to seep in to supercharge healing.

It has multiple floors, each with an overseer who is one of the foremost expert's on their particular floors' malady.

The first floor is dedicated to diseased of all sorts, their contagion, effects, treatments and sources are extensively recorded and the archives are open to any for a small donation.

The second floor is dedicated to poisons, of all varieties with areas for inhaled poison research cordoned off by various applications of walls of force. Antivenom for nearly any poison magical or mundane are found being produced en masse for use of any who need it.

The third floor specializes is grafts, missing limbs, and other physical alterations of form that may or may not have various repercussions.

The fourth floor is similar to the third but specifically applies to supernatural and magical form altering mistakes like those who have fallen to a chaos beast. They have had success in reverting similar cases without using even stronger magic like limited wish.

The fifth is odd, in that it is a massive research facility and treatment center for drugs from across the multiverse. Friends are common here and are allowed some experimentation with new products so treatments can be developed In tandem. There is a heavy celestial presence but curiously not a single recorded case of violence. Ravages are tested on the fiends as part of their agreement to be able to work there. Devils are the vast majority, and they are bound by contract.

The sixth floor deals with curses of all kinds, including hauntings. Undead are common here as are necromancers and even hexblades. They come to study and provide their expertise.

The seventh floor deals with mental damage caused generally by powerful magic like insanity, mind rape, or connection with the far plane.

The eight and final floor is almost never accessed except for a few select individuals, and is under the purview of a mysterious figure called the administrator. It is said to hold various maladies, spells, and other things so powerful and dangerous that they can only be sealed but not destroyed. Several artifacts are known to be hidden there, as well as many more rumored. No one outside of a select few workers have ever interacted with the administrator and few more than that have ever even ascended.

[Dalmosh]

Is it possible you just homebrewed a bit to flesh out The Hospice (MotP p84)?
It's not specified as adamantium but is a floating tower populated by knights and healers focused on obscure healing devotion.

[Thurbane]

Looking at Imprisoning Cells (the entry after The Hospice in MotP), got me thinking.

If I wanted to dispose of an "unkilliable" enemy, by physically cramming them into a box or cell, then set it adrift on a plane where it is going to take a long time, if ever, to be found - which plane would be best? Are there any better than the Positive Energy plane for this?

Assume the creature has no means to plane shift or escape its cell without external interference.

[Fable Wright]

If I wanted to dispose of an "unkilliable" enemy, by physically cramming them into a box or cell, then set it adrift on a plane where it is going to take a long time, if ever, to be found - which plane would be best? Are there any better than the Positive Energy plane for this?

Is there any particular reason Carceri or the Demiplane of Imprisonment wouldn't suit your purposes?

Because if the Demiplane of Imprisonment can hold Tharizdun, whatever you cast adrift there ain't getting out.

[Tzardok]

Looking at Imprisoning Cells (the entry after The Hospice in MotP), got me thinking.

If I wanted to dispose of an "unkilliable" enemy, by physically cramming them into a box or cell, then set it adrift on a plane where it is going to take a long time, if ever, to be found - which plane would be best? Are there any better than the Positive Energy plane for this?

Assume the creature has no means to plane shift or escape its cell without external interference.

Let me reiterate: Agathion is a wonderful place for stashing things you don't want found. For heaven's sake, they imprisoned Kezef the Chaos Hound down there!

[afroakuma]

Just FYI, I'm taking a brief sabbatical from various activities for a while. I hope to be back to maintaining the thread this weekend, but no guarantees at this time. I appreciate the continued interest!

[Bohandas]

How does Reorx fit into the larger Dwarven and Gnomish pantheons?

[Thurbane]

Is there any particular reason Carceri or the Demiplane of Imprisonment wouldn't suit your purposes?

Because if the Demiplane of Imprisonment can hold Tharizdun, whatever you cast adrift there ain't getting out.

I'm not overly erudite with the outer planes, hence the question. I'll look into Carceri.

Let me reiterate: Agathion is a wonderful place for stashing things you don't want found. For heaven's sake, they imprisoned Kezef the Chaos Hound down there!

Again, planes aren't my strong suit: where would I find more info on Agathion? [edit] Oh OK, a sub-plane/level of Pandemonium? [/edit]

[Fable Wright]

I'm not overly erudite with the outer planes, hence the question. I'll look into Carceri.

Generally speaking, though I don't know where it'd be written in any given edition, when you Plane Shift someone to Carceri, they will be forever unable to leave by any means until they're stronger than you. And if they are stronger, and don't have access to Plane Shift, it is hard to get out.

[Tzardok]

I'm not overly erudite with the outer planes, hence the question. I'll look into Carceri.



Again, planes aren't my strong suit: where would I find more info on Agathion? [edit] Oh OK, a sub-plane/level of Pandemonium? [/edit]

I would recommend the 3e Manual of the Planes as a good starting point for researching the planes; afterwards the different 2e Planescape books give a more in-depth look, esspecially on those properties that were ignored in 3.x. Pandemonium and Carceri are described in, respectively, Planes of Chaos and Planes of Conflict.
Both the mirror of planewalker.net and the Planar Questions Threads are good sources too, but have the problem of finding relevant information.

[afroakuma]

Oh, I'm very much interested. If it's not too much trouble.

My mental bandwidth is lower than I anticipated when I first offered - I still plan to do it and I have a few scratch notes, but it won't be soon.

If I wanted to dispose of an "unkilliable" enemy, by physically cramming them into a box or cell, then set it adrift on a plane where it is going to take a long time, if ever, to be found - which plane would be best? Are there any better than the Positive Energy plane for this?

Assume the creature has no means to plane shift or escape its cell without external interference.

No end of obnoxious places to put them. Gehenna and Carceri have voids, for instance - endlessly obnoxious to just launch something into the bleakness of Outer Planar space. Agathion is great for the opposite reason, burying something in a place that's often deadly to even poke around in. Loosing the box in the bladestorm of Ocanthus, either of the energy planes, basically any negative Quasi-Elemental Plane...

Of course your problem is that ultimately there will always be methods to home in on a thing, such that nobody needs to just walk to it. Nevertheless, you can make the location pretty odious. I would not recommend the Demiplane of Imprisonment, if only because it might result in a worse outcome in the long run. We do not tamper with Tharizdun's prison.

How does Reorx fit into the larger Dwarven and Gnomish pantheons?

He does not; he's not a member of either, and was originally a human deity (he still has some human followers, no less) - the minoi are the result of a curse he laid on his largest sect, and the dwarves and kender of Krynn originated due to the power of Chaos transforming minoi. Reorx has limited, though not antagonistic, relations with the dwarven and gnomish pantheons, most particularly in areas of shared interest.

[Bohandas]

No end of obnoxious places to put them. Gehenna and Carceri have voids, for instance - endlessly obnoxious to just launch something into the bleakness of Outer Planar space. Agathion is great for the opposite reason, burying something in a place that's often deadly to even poke around in. Loosing the box in the bladestorm of Ocanthus, either of the energy planes, basically any negative Quasi-Elemental Plane...

Of course your problem is that ultimately there will always be methods to home in on a thing, such that nobody needs to just walk to it.

What about setting them adrift in the interstellar pholgiston? Isn't that region disconnected from the astral plane?

[afroakuma]

What about setting them adrift in the interstellar pholgiston? Isn't that region disconnected from the astral plane?

It is indeed, though it could still be magically located, and spelljammers can move through it. Some kind of sargasso in the phlogiston would be considerably more obnoxious - still ways to do it, but a space boat wouldn't be one of them.

[Edreyn]

After someone here mentioned Carceri, I remembered what was bothering me for some time. One of lore books says, that Mercy Killers have an outpost there. Obviously there is a portal to Sigil in this prison\fortress and it can be used by Mercy Killers without problem. So, why Carceri locals won't try to siege this place? No way that this fortress could withstand an attack of a full scale army.

[enderlord99]

After someone here mentioned Carceri, I remembered what was bothering me for some time. One of lore books says, that Mercy Killers have an outpost there. Obviously there is a portal to Sigil in this prison\fortress and it can be used by Mercy Killers without problem. So, why Carceri locals won't try to siege this place? No way that this fortress could withstand an attack of a full scale army.

Carceri locals couldn't make a "full scale army" precisely because they're the sort of person who is local to Carceri.

Also: portal key.

[Edreyn]

Carceri locals couldn't make a "full scale army" precisely because they're the sort of person who is local to Carceri.

Won't they make even a temporary alliance for the sake of breaking free? Even demons have some kind of organization and Carceri is less chaotic.

As for portal key, I expect that whatever it is, if Mercy Killers use it all the time, it can be found inside the fortress. And with correct interrogation of prisoners, one can even find what it is exactly.

[Caelestion]

A portal key can be anything, even a word, emotion or memory. Good luck emulating a memory of a place you've never been to, for instance.

As for Carceri, the people who go there are just the sort of people who will actively fight to make other people unhappy or to stop them succeeding. Even if they did somehow make a temporary "alliance", no one would pretend that it would last long and would likely break at just the worst time or (as is more the point) just the best time to backstab their "ally".

[enderlord99]

Won't they make even a temporary alliance for the sake of breaking free?

They might claim to. They'd all be lying, if so. Every single one.

Even demons have some kind of organization

No they don't. Most don't even pretend to. The only one who does pretend to organize anything is Graz'zt, who usually appears extremely organized and is never even remotely close to being anything he appears to be.

and Carceri is less chaotic.

In much the same way that a tortoise is less slow than a sloth, yes. Limbo and Pandemonium are both coral in the slow=chaotic analogy.

[Edreyn]

Even if they did somehow make a temporary "alliance", no one would pretend that it would last long and would likely break at just the worst time or (as is more the point) just the best time to backstab their "ally".

They might claim to. They'd all be lying, if so. Every single one.

Even demons have some kind of organization

No they don't. Most don't even pretend to. The only one who does pretend to organize anything is Graz'zt, who usually appears extremely organized and is never even remotely close to being anything he appears to be.

I do understand and agree with this. But unlike Blood War, besieging just one single fortress is a finite goal.
As for demons organization, I meant this - stronger demons can force weaker ones to obey them, like to go and become a cannon fodder at the Blood War.
Can't something like that happen at Carceri?
All the locals need is to get to portal inside the fortress. Can't one strongest creature (Titan?) simply force others to obey, at least for a short time?

Yes, after getting inside Sigil they'll tear each other throats, and Lady won't even have to maze anyone. But can't an army of Carceri inhabitants hold even for a few days?

[enderlord99]

The whole point of Carceri is that you're trapped there by your own spite; if someone were capable of working with others well enough to get out, they wouldn't be there in the first place.

The only thing Carceri's denizens want more than to escape, is to be the only one who escapes.

[Lagtime]

After someone here mentioned Carceri, I remembered what was bothering me for some time. One of lore books says, that Mercy Killers have an outpost there. Obviously there is a portal to Sigil in this prison\fortress and it can be used by Mercy Killers without problem. So, why Carceri locals won't try to siege this place? No way that this fortress could withstand an attack of a full scale army.

So, first, of course the Metagame reason starting with 3E, the Planes were made very safe and comfortable, along with everything else in the game. So the "prison" part is mostly in name, as they won't put any negative rules in the book that might make a player sad or unhappy. So the idea that a player might fail a save and be stuck on Carceri would be out of the question.

Second, any planual place with an active portal will have traps and guards. Safe to say that would be 100% more on a plane like Carceri. So getting to the portal would be a chore. Plus, anyone with the magic can also destroy the portal: and this is the ultimate deterrent. At the first sign of an attack, they destroy the portal.

Also 2E portals could be made with all sorts of magical effects, like say tossing anyone with out the right key 1-100 miles away on the same plane, draining life force, and so on. 3E and on dropped all this making all portals safe.

Third, also from 2E: it is true that those exiled to the plane cannot simply escape even via these means. However, they can escape, should they fulfill one condition — if they become stronger than that which exiled them. This strength can take all manner of forms; purely physical, yes, but intelligence, cleverness, subterfuge, any manner of strength can do. It is this that truly encompasses the plane; only the strong deserve success. Not because they can beat everyone beneath them, but because they have beat everyone above them. Thus, if someone cannot leave Carceri, it is solely because they do not yet deserve to. And indeed, though some constantly struggle to escape Carceri and overcome their weakness.

[PairO'Dice Lost]

So, first, of course the Metagame reason starting with 3E, the Planes were made very safe and comfortable, along with everything else in the game.

This couldn't be further from the truth. Firstly, the 3e rules are just as lethal and dangerous as AD&D; some things are easier (e.g. taking damage while casting lets you try to Concentrate to maintain it instead of just losing the spell) while some things are harder (e.g. monster HP is higher across the board), but in aggregate it's basically the same. Rose-colored glasses aside, the vast majority of the stuff in 3e that AD&D players grumble about is either essentially equivalent but expressed differently (like descending vs. ascending AC), taken right out of the Player Option stuff and just not recognized by people who preferred to stick to the earlier books, or late-2e-as-commonly-houseruled because no one used the rules-as-written anyway.

Secondly and more relevantly, "make the planes accessible to lower-level characters" was Planescape's entire raison d'etre, so complaining that 3e made the planes too "safe and comfortable" is off-target by about 6 years.

So the "prison" part is mostly in name, as they won't put any negative rules in the book that might make a player sad or unhappy. So the idea that a player might fail a save and be stuck on Carceri would be out of the question.

Planescape doesn't have a "save or be stuck" effect for Carceri either, at least not in the Planescape Campaign Setting or Planes of Conflict which I just checked; Carceri is a prison for its petitioners in both editions, not just any berk who wanders by. Elysium and Hades have Entrapping traits in both editions, though.

Also 2E portals could be made with all sorts of magical effects, like say tossing anyone with out the right key 1-100 miles away on the same plane, draining life force, and so on. 3E and on dropped all this making all portals safe.

Nope, all the fun of Planescape portals is preserved in 3e. See Manual of the Planes (p.21-22) and FRCS (p.59-61).