afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VIII

[Khedrac]

I'm not sure about mentions of gunpowder specificallt, but Greyhawk explicitly has guns

Are you sure? Spelljammer has an explicit mention that smokepowder doesn't work in Oerth's atmosphere.

I think energy weapons from White Plume Mountain aren't within the intent of the OP.

[Tzardok]

Are you sure? Spelljammer has an explicit mention that smokepowder doesn't work in Oerth's atmosphere.

I think energy weapons from White Plume Mountain aren't within the intent of the OP.

Murlynd, an Oerthian hero-god of magic technology, once visited Earth and brought guns with him (I think he has an revolver as his personal weapon of choice). Outside of his cult nobody uses them; medieval stasis is enforced on Oerth.

[Khedrac]

Murlynd, an Oerthian hero-god of magic technology, once visited Earth and brought guns with him (I think he has an revolver as his personal weapon of choice). Outside of his cult nobody uses them; medieval stasis is enforced on Oerth.

Good point. I suspect there was a retro-fit to make them work magically when the spelljammer smokepowder ban went in.
Of course, they could burn something else (see Zelazny's novel "The Guns of Avalon").

[Tzardok]

Either that, or, depending on how that ban comes to be and who enforces it, Murlynd got an exception for his cult.

[Dalmosh]

What are the major overarching architectural themes/constraints you see on planes with subjective gravity (Air, Water, Limbo, Astral etc) that differentiate how population centres are constructed there, compared with ones in normal gravity?

How does this affect day to day life for the general population?

[Bohandas]

What does the "colorless" part of the Rain of Colorless Fire refer to? Was it black, white, iridescent, or clear?

(I'm personally leaning towards clear in the absence of other information but the other two still seem plausible to me)

[Tzardok]

The World of Greyhawk Folio, a 2nd ed. book, describes the Rain of Colorless Fire as "a nearly invisible fiery rain which killed all creatures it struck, burned all living things, ignited the landscape with colorless flame, and burned the very hills themselves to ash." In the Oerth Journal, issue 12, it is described similiar, as "the near-invisible and unquenchable flames that consumed the land, burning even rock to powdery ash."

Incidentally, the Journal ascribes the Rain to a deity named Dorgha Torgu. I haven't heard of him before. What is known about him?

[afroakuma]

What are the major overarching architectural themes/constraints you see on planes with subjective gravity (Air, Water, Limbo, Astral etc) that differentiate how population centres are constructed there, compared with ones in normal gravity?

For the most part these haven't been detailed, though we've seen pavilions in djinn settlements that are pretty open - basically just columned arches with open walls. Limbo has no consistent architectural themes. Water builds things basically the same way underwater civilizations on the Prime do, with the only caveat being that they sometimes need to account for a lack of firm anchoring point unless they can find an earth pocket or sufficiently large coral accretion - after all, to water-dwellers, vertical momentum is always somewhat discretionary to begin with. Some such areas have functional "gravity wells" that clearly define a "down" within their perimeter (for example, the god-corpse of The One In The Void, on which the githyanki city of Tu'narath is built), which allows them to build accordingly.

What does the "colorless" part of the Rain of Colorless Fire refer to? Was it black, white, iridescent, or clear?

Clear.

Incidentally, the Journal ascribes the Rain to a deity named Dorgha Torgu. I haven't heard of him before. What is known about him?

That he's non-canonical, because the Oerth Journal is a fanmade publication.

[Tzardok]

That he's non-canonical, because the Oerth Journal is a fanmade publication.

Huh. I thought the article he was mentioned in was written by Gygax, but I may have misunderstood something.

[afroakuma]

Huh. I thought the article he was mentioned in was written by Gygax, but I may have misunderstood something.

Not relevant. I mean if we took his canon at face value, then...

In Gary Gygax's Gord the Rogue series, Demogorgon is the brother of another demon lord called Mandrillagon.

Needless to say, if it's not from an official publication, I don't care what Gygax wrote

[Tzardok]

Herogods can't build divine realms. Where do the souls of those go that worship them? To the appropriate Outer Plane? To the divine realm of the herogod's patron? Something else?

Also, I wonder where Apep's petitioners go, but he propably devours them to gain strength for escape attempts.

Thirdly, do you feel up to fleshing out the Deep Mirror?

Edit: What is the true origin of the malaugrym? The 3.x sources insist that they use the Plane of Shadow only as a bridgehead for conquering Fearûn instead of being natives there.

Edit #2: Is there anything worthwhile on elemental stewards? How do these beings come to be and why are they obsessed with serving psions?

[Tzardok]

What form do elemental weirds take on their native planes? How do their abilities change when they aren't routed in some elemental portal on the Prime? Do they fulfill some kind of niche on the elemental planes?

Edit: What other paraelemental weirds besides the ice weird and the snow weird from Frostburn could exist? What kind of events would fall in their respective oracular niche? Are there quasielemental weirds?

Edit 2: The Rabble of Devilkind loiters around on Avernus because Bel has neither the time nor the power to do something about it. Where did they dwell back when Zariel was still in power?

[afroakuma]

Herogods can't build divine realms. Where do the souls of those go that worship them? To the appropriate Outer Plane?

Yep. Some may have arrangements with a patron (provided they have one) to collect the souls to themselves, but in general you go where you belong based on who you are as a person. Hero-gods and quasi-deities don't have any kind of conventional draw to petitioner souls.

Thirdly, do you feel up to fleshing out the Deep Mirror?

Lol no. I do still want to get to that request, but perhaps when I stop being asked to do overtime from midnight to 3 AM.

In the meantime, I did do a little mirror stuff over in the other thread. You know the one.

Edit: What is the true origin of the malaugrym? The 3.x sources insist that they use the Plane of Shadow only as a bridgehead for conquering Fearûn instead of being natives there.

They descend from the mortal wizard Malaug, formerly a warlord named Malaugadorn, who entered the Plane of Shadow and built a castle there to serve as a base for his continued studies into magic. All malaugrym are born "human" and become what they are by being kidnapped and brought to the Castle of Shadows to be raised; the Castle itself is known to impart temporary shape-altering abilities to humans within its boundaries, which normally fade after a brief spell of time away from the Castle. Something about possessing the blood of Malaug (all malaugrym are descended from him) causes the Castle to provide this ability to them permanently. It's likely that the Castle of Shadows draws on energies from another plane (4E decided on the Far Realm, because of course it did, but the malaugrym are just too consistent, to say nothing of actively concerned with the Material Plane, for that to make sense) or more likely an alternate Prime such as the grell homeworld, and that Malaug's experiments in using the Plane of Shadow as a bridge between worlds and radical magical alterations of his own body using shadowstuff to immunize himself against the hazards of alternate Material Planes resulted in the freaky beaky shapeshifters we now know and hate. One alternate possibility is that he tried to use the Castle as a base of operations to explore other planes, including the Ethereal Plane, which cannot coexist with the Plane of Shadow; in trying to tamper with this boundary, he caused the shapechanging instability that permeates the Castle and also inadvertently made it so that only the Shadowmaster, who fully controls the Castle and can stabilize its powers, can create gates.

Edit #2: Is there anything worthwhile on elemental stewards?

Nope.

How do these beings come to be and why are they obsessed with serving psions?

Most likely, as the entry suggests, they arise from psionic contact with the Elemental Planes causing the living elements to take on shapes vaguely similar to the psionic beings' own mental imprints, though smaller, and with similar behaviors.

What form do elemental weirds

Oh no.

take on their native planes?

As far as we are aware, they quite simply don't. They likely resemble any other conventional elemental of their respective element if encountered on their home plane.

How do their abilities change when they aren't routed in some elemental portal on the Prime?

Unknown.

Do they fulfill some kind of niche on the elemental planes?

It was conjectured that upon their return home, they disperse the knowledge collected from their time on the Prime to the service of their elemental plane in some fashion. It has not been explained how, or why, or verified that this is the case. Other than that, we don't know.

Edit: What other paraelemental weirds besides the ice weird and the snow weird from Frostburn could exist?

Whyyy.

I see no reason why other paraelemental weirds could not or would not exist. I also, of course, see no reason for snow weirds to not be ice weirds, but that's Frostburn for you. Causing trouble just for kicks.

What kind of events would fall in their respective oracular niche?

I would just be making up random nonsense here, so... I won't. To be clear, the specific and explicit reason I hate elemental weirds is because they awkwardly knocked over the original concept of a water weird, which is a hostile water elemental snake that wants to drown you, and then awkwardly tried to reestablish it while also claiming it was one of several "lesser weirds" who can now all shoot energy attacks for some daft reason. 3.X, everybody. Standalone, they're not a terrible idea, but this was just a case of stepping on toes and then trying to backpedal, badly. Also, as noted previously, Frostburn needs to choke on yellow snow.

Are there quasielemental weirds?

Feels excessive, but I'm sure Sandstorm wants ash and dust weirds, so sure why not.

Edit 2: The Rabble of Devilkind loiters around on Avernus because Bel has neither the time nor the power to do something about it. Where did they dwell back when Zariel was still in power?

They have always been on Avernus; they're simply forbidden from amassing power and followings, and it's likely that under Zariel they forked over bribes to be spared her attention from time to time, or to have her direct her burning gaze toward a rival instead. Remember, none of them are forbidden from being in Baator, and Asmodeus knows about all of them; Bel's problem is that he lacks sufficient authority within his own layer to even enforce the rules over them, and so it takes him more attention and resources to go swat one - a task he must undertake lest the Lord Below get annoyed with his failures. In the past, Zariel had the help of Amduscias, Goap, and Malphas to monitor the Rabble, but with Bel's ascension these three have defected to Tiamat's service, and she doesn't care about the Rabble. Also, of course, since that time the ranks of the Rabble have grown.

[Tzardok]

In the meantime, I did do a little mirror stuff over in the other thread. You know the one.

You are talking about Loremaster Ijiate and his Mirror domain, right? I'll take it happily.

They descend from the mortal wizard Malaug, formerly a warlord named Malaugadorn, who entered the Plane of Shadow and built a castle there to serve as a base for his continued studies into magic. All malaugrym are born "human" and become what they are by being kidnapped and brought to the Castle of Shadows to be raised; the Castle itself is known to impart temporary shape-altering abilities to humans within its boundaries, which normally fade after a brief spell of time away from the Castle. Something about possessing the blood of Malaug (all malaugrym are descended from him) causes the Castle to provide this ability to them permanently. It's likely that the Castle of Shadows draws on energies from another plane (4E decided on the Far Realm, because of course it did, but the malaugrym are just too consistent, to say nothing of actively concerned with the Material Plane, for that to make sense) or more likely an alternate Prime such as the grell homeworld, and that Malaug's experiments in using the Plane of Shadow as a bridge between worlds and radical magical alterations of his own body using shadowstuff to immunize himself against the hazards of alternate Material Planes resulted in the freaky beaky shapeshifters we now know and hate. One alternate possibility is that he tried to use the Castle as a base of operations to explore other planes, including the Ethereal Plane, which cannot coexist with the Plane of Shadow; in trying to tamper with this boundary, he caused the shapechanging instability that permeates the Castle and also inadvertently made it so that only the Shadowmaster, who fully controls the Castle and can stabilize its powers, can create gates.

Ah, clear.

I would just be making up random nonsense here, so... I won't. To be clear, the specific and explicit reason I hate elemental weirds is because they awkwardly knocked over the original concept of a water weird, which is a hostile water elemental snake that wants to drown you, and then awkwardly tried to reestablish it while also claiming it was one of several "lesser weirds" who can now all shoot energy attacks for some daft reason. 3.X, everybody. Standalone, they're not a terrible idea, but this was just a case of stepping on toes and then trying to backpedal, badly. Also, as noted previously, Frostburn needs to choke on yellow snow.

Huh, I thought the weird drowning snakes were the younger invention, with the oracular ones being more interesting, which my mind apparantly translated to "Planescape stuff". But if it is like that I can understand your annoyance. Thank you.

Incidentally, my project to adapt non-core classes to Ravenloft is completed! I've started posting it here. If anybody feels like giving their opinion, feel free.

Edit: Vistani are technically human. So they should be compatible with elves. If an elf and a vistani produce offspring, would it be identicall to other half-elves or would it have some or all traits of a giomorgo?

[afroakuma]

Huh, I thought the weird drowning snakes were the younger invention

Nope, it went:

OD&D: Hey dad let's have a drowny water snake.
1E D&D: Who doesn't love a drowny water snake?
2E D&D: Check out everyone's favorite drowny water snake!
3E D&D: Hi I'm an oracular lady who lives in a pool of water that can transform you into water and I tell you things about healing. Also I'm just one elemental flavor of the same thing.
3.5E D&D: ...oh and also drowny water snakes are our immature versions... for some reason.
4E D&D: What just happened? We're gonna take a breather on the insanity.
5E D&D: Breathing is for sissies, drowny water snakes are back!

Incidentally, my project to adapt non-core classes to Ravenloft is completed! I've started posting it here. If anybody feels like giving their opinion, feel free.

I've been reading with interest. I think Incarnum in particular will need a lot of new content but it looks good so far.

Edit: Vistani are technically human. So they should be compatible with elves. If an elf and a vistani produce offspring, would it be identicall to other half-elves or would it have some or all traits of a giomorgo?

Half-elf half-Vistani are called giamarga and are profoundly rare. The only listed mention of them notes that their rarity is so significant that they should not be an eligible playable race.

[Tzardok]

Nope, it went:

OD&D: Hey dad let's have a drowny water snake.
1E D&D: Who doesn't love a drowny water snake?
2E D&D: Check out everyone's favorite drowny water snake!
3E D&D: Hi I'm an oracular lady who lives in a pool of water that can transform you into water and I tell you things about healing. Also I'm just one elemental flavor of the same thing.
3.5E D&D: ...oh and also drowny water snakes are our immature versions... for some reason.
4E D&D: What just happened? We're gonna take a breather on the insanity.
5E D&D: Breathing is for sissies, drowny water snakes are back!

Everybody loves snakes (except for 4e. Typical.)

I've been reading with interest. I think Incarnum in particular will need a lot of new content but it looks good so far.

Good to know. It also may interest you that I finished posting all that stuff now. I could use a bit of help with the Healer (y'know, the underwhelming one from Miniatures Handbook); I'm not sure what to do with the unicorn companion. A unicorn dread companion sounds... yeah

Half-elf half-Vistani are called giamarga and are profoundly rare. The only listed mention of them notes that their rarity is so significant that they should not be an eligible playable race.

Huuu. Canon did think of that. Interesting.

[Beni-Kujaku]

Do we have recorded instances of illithids eating illithid brains? I know Elminster described the illithid brain as poisonous, but is it so for mind flayers themselves? What would be the result of an illithid consuming only its brethrens?

[Tzardok]

Well, you propably remember that a mind flayer brain is essentially a parasite in a humanoid body. Lords of Madness tells us that the body requires hormons and other substances produced by the originl brain which the mind flayer brain can't substitute, and that's (part of) the reason why mind flayers eat brains. A cannibalistic mind flayer won't get those, so similiar starvation symptons as a mind flayer dining only on cows are propably goind to set in. If the mind flayer dies this way, I would assume that he would rise as some kind of cannibalistic undead, a illithid version of a ghoul or a mind flayer vampire for example.

[Dalmosh]

Elder Brains subsist on illithid tadpoles, though are a higher order of being for all intents and purposes.

Tadpoles also cannibalize one another.

I'd figured illithid cannibalism was more of a taboo than a physiological constraint.

[Beni-Kujaku]

Well, you propably remember that a mind flayer brain is essentially a parasite in a humanoid body. Lords of Madness tells us that the body requires hormons and other substances produced by the originl brain which the mind flayer brain can't substitute, and that's (part of) the reason why mind flayers eat brains. A cannibalistic mind flayer won't get those, so similiar starvation symptons as a mind flayer dining only on cows are propably goind to set in. If the mind flayer dies this way, I would assume that he would rise as some kind of cannibalistic undead, a illithid version of a ghoul or a mind flayer vampire for example.

An elder brain is the brain of an ulitharid, so the tadpole has to morph into a true brain at one point or another during ceremorphosis. And I'm not sure about the cannibalistic mind flayer not being able to get hormones from the brain of another illithid. For example, the vitamin B12 is only synthesized in the digestive system of herbivores, then passed on to those who eat these herbivores. It could very well be the same for "brain hormones" that aren't synthesized by illithids, but could be passed on if an illithid eats another's brain.

[Dalmosh]

An elder brain is the brain of an ulitharid

Is that actually specified prior to 5th ed.?

[Tzardok]

An elder brain is the brain of an ulitharid, so the tadpole has to morph into a true brain at one point or another during ceremorphosis. And I'm not sure about the cannibalistic mind flayer not being able to get hormones from the brain of another illithid. For example, the vitamin B12 is only synthesized in the digestive system of herbivores, then passed on to those who eat these herbivores. It could very well be the same for "brain hormones" that aren't synthesized by illithids, but could be passed on if an illithid eats another's brain.

What? Where did you get the elder brain-ulitharid connection? Isn't it canon that no one, not even mind flayers, know where elder brains come from?

[Beni-Kujaku]

Is that actually specified prior to 5th ed.?

Yeah it was in 5e, that's my b, I didn't check the source. Still, that makes the "illithids can't eat another illithid's brain because they don't have one" argument a bit shaky.

[Tzardok]

Only if you accept 5e as canon, which this thread officially doesn't do.

[Dalmosh]

Brain cannibalism also comes with acute health risks, as brain tissue can harbour prions, which are often virulently deadly and (in real world humans) impossible to treat. They are not even normal micro-organisms, just weird self-replicating broken proteins that cause all sorts of degenerative illnesses.

Generally illithids must be able to suppress prionic diseases from human brains as that's their whole jam, but that isn't necessarily going to be the case for eating the mature brains of their own species.

[Bohandas]

What? Where did you get the elder brain-ulitharid connection? Isn't it canon that no one, not even mind flayers, know where elder brains come from?

No, it's explained pretty clearly in Illithiad. It's not ulitharids though, it's just the brains of the settlement's founders all grafted together

[Tzardok]

Yeah, well. Lords of Madness on the other hand claims that the elder brains' origins are unknown. I quote:

How and elder brain comes to be is unknown. Even to the mind flayers, an elder brain is timeless and ageless.

[Bohandas]

I still think the kind of "unknown" they're talking about there is more along the lines of how the overwhelming majority of people in the USA don't know how to build an atom bomb

[Tzardok]

What languages do quasi-elementals speak? Do they just speak the language of their respective elemental component, or do they... change it up somehow?

[enderlord99]

What planar entity would you associate most strongly with the sentence "I don't eat mortal people"