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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VIII

    Quote Originally Posted by enderlord99 View Post
    No they don't. Most don't even pretend to. The only one who does pretend to organize anything is Graz'zt
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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VIII

    Quote Originally Posted by Lagtime View Post
    So, first, of course the Metagame reason starting with 3E, the Planes were made very safe and comfortable, along with everything else in the game. So the "prison" part is mostly in name, as they won't put any negative rules in the book that might make a player sad or unhappy. So the idea that a player might fail a save and be stuck on Carceri would be out of the question.
    Planescape was a 2nd Ed setting, so why bring up 3E completely asked?

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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VIII

    Quote Originally Posted by PairO'Dice Lost View Post
    This couldn't be further from the truth.
    Maybe you never played 2E or maybe you only played a homebrew version or something. But a quick list would be things like poison kills, energy drain takes one or more class levels, system shock rolls, and the start of the removal of the save or die effects.

    And then you had the Planescape rules for the magic item 'plus' reduction, clerics being cut off from their gods and getting few spells, and the massive spell alterations for the multiverse.

    Quote Originally Posted by PairO'Dice Lost View Post
    Secondly and more relevantly, "make the planes accessible to lower-level characters" was Planescape's entire raison d'etre, so complaining that 3e made the planes too "safe and comfortable" is off-target by about 6 years.
    Accessible and safe and comfortable are not all the same thing. Only the few complained that "every time my character goes off plane they die": the players that could not handle the more complex rules and settings. Even just a three dimensional fight, common on the planes, is more then some player can handle.


    Quote Originally Posted by PairO'Dice Lost View Post
    Nope, all the fun of Planescape portals is preserved in 3e. See Manual of the Planes (p.21-22) and FRCS (p.59-61).
    ????

    The 3E rules list a couple things that might happen when a character steps through a portal safe and sound.

    It does not list all the fun stuff from Planescape books like the Planewalker Handbook. And if you want FR stuff, you can check out the portals in most Undermountain books, plus places like secrets of the magister.


    Though really it all comes down to 2E was the type of game were the DM just said things and they happened, no matter how much the players did not like it.


    Quote Originally Posted by Caelestion View Post
    Planescape was a 2nd Ed setting, so why bring up 3E completely asked?
    The thread is in the 3E/D20 subfourm.....

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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VIII

    Some questions for Afro:

    1) The 3e D&DG has example monotheistic and dualistic religions in the back, but I can't actually think of any cases where similar religions show up in published settings; even the Silver Flame in Eberron, which appears to be monotheistic at first glance, is syncretic with the Sovereign Host. Do you know of any obscure settings, Spelljammer worlds, etc. that have just one or two gods, or have religions teaching that any other gods besides their one/two god(s) are fakers/demon princes/etc.?

    2) Aside from the Spirit Realm of Kara Tur, the Gray and Black of Athas, and the Shadow World of Aebrynis (and kinda sorta Krynn's Ethereal Sea), are there other settings out there that have replacements for or variations on the local Ethereal and/or Shadow Planes?

    3) On souls:
    a) The fate of the soul after death is fairly well-defined in various materials, but the origin of souls is much less so. Aside from the information on the Wellspring in MoI and the soul fonts in Bastion of Broken Souls, is there any other information on how souls are made, how creatures are ensouled, etc.?
    b) What are souls made of? Just pure positive energy (and, if one is using MoI, presumably a bit of essentia), or N parts positive energy to M parts belief-stuff, or...?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lagtime View Post
    Maybe you never played 2E or maybe you only played a homebrew version or something. But a quick list would be things like poison kills, energy drain takes one or more class levels, system shock rolls, and the start of the removal of the save or die effects.
    Nope, I've played 1e, 2e, and a bit of BECMI, and the differences are really overblown.
    • 1e has instant-death poison, but only class D poisons kill on a failed save, and they do nothing on a successful save (which is made at +1 vs. assassins or +2 vs. anyone else); 3e has Wyvern Poison and Black Lotus Extract, which deal 4d6 Con and 6d6 Con, respectively, at nontrivial DCs.
    • Energy drain didn't allow a save or have a delay before draining levels, true, but (A) level loss is much less impactful in AD&D when there's less level-dependent stuff and the "catch-up effect" of being lower level is much larger than in 3e, (B) 3e negative levels are much more accessible to NPCs (e.g. enervation) so they lose severity but make up for it in prevalence, and (C) turning undead is much stronger in AD&D so level-draining undead are not nearly as threatening in practice. And remember how I said a lot of 3e changes were stuff people had been houseruling in AD&D for a while? A lot of players hated AD&D energy drain so much that DMs basically didn't use level-draining undead after the first or second time the party ran into them, so in practice the threat is overstated.
    • System shock rolls were removed as a mechanic as a unification thing, since they rolled into Fort saves along with save vs. death magic and save vs. petrification, and they were removed from the polymorph line and other spells because they were intended as a balancing mechanism to prevent your party fighter from being a storm giant all the time but it actually gave the PCs a bunch of effective save-or-dies (2e polymorph other requires 3 rolls [save vs. spells, system shock, and Int check] to not be turned into a newt and squished, 3e baleful polymorph requires just 2 [Fort save and Will save]).
    • There are plenty of save-or-dies in 3e; don't blame 3e for what 4e and 5e did later on. What it doesn't have nearly as many of is no-save-just-dies, which (A) were always an unfun idea, (B) mostly showed up in modules rather than sourcebooks, and (C) were, like energy drain, commonly nerfed or houseruled out due to player/DM dislike.


    And then you had the Planescape rules for the magic item 'plus' reduction, clerics being cut off from their gods and getting few spells, and the massive spell alterations for the multiverse.
    Spell alterations stuck around in the form of Enhanced, Limited, and Impeded magic traits; clerics don't automatically suffer penalties for being on different planes, but in practice 90% of clerics in Planescape games (as opposed to Clueless clerics who go planeshopping) try to worship causes, elemental gods, or gods with Outlands realms and/or go out of their way to pick up power keys to avoid or strongly mitigate the issue; and magic item plus reduction was removed not to make things better for PCs but because requiring the DM to figure out where every last magic sword was forged and how many planes away the Plane of Fire was from Carceri was a real pain.

    Accessible and safe and comfortable are not all the same thing. Only the few complained that "every time my character goes off plane they die": the players that could not handle the more complex rules and settings. Even just a three dimensional fight, common on the planes, is more then some player can handle.
    Considering that 3e basically assumes everyone is flying all that time past a certain level, those players would have the same issues in 3e as well.

    ????

    The 3E rules list a couple things that might happen when a character steps through a portal safe and sound.

    It does not list all the fun stuff from Planescape books like the Planewalker Handbook. And if you want FR stuff, you can check out the portals in most Undermountain books, plus places like secrets of the magister.
    Again, 3e has plenty of unsafe portals. All the one-off portals o' doom like in Undermountain were converted more or less faithfully, and the basic overviews in MotP and FRCS don't go into tons of detail on making portals with more unusual effects (beyond the most common one, teleporting a PC to one place and all their gear to another, which is indeed mentioned in those sections) because 3e has build-your-own-magic-item rules and guidelines that let you add life-draining or whatever else to them if desired.
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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VIII

    The whole point of Carceri is that you're trapped there by your own spite; if someone were capable of working with others well enough to get out, they wouldn't be there in the first place.

    The only thing Carceri's denizens want more than to escape, is to be the only one who escapes.
    Now this does answer my question. Thanks!

    Planescape doesn't have a "save or be stuck" effect for Carceri either, at least not in the Planescape Campaign Setting or Planes of Conflict which I just checked; Carceri is a prison for its petitioners in both editions, not just any berk who wanders by. Elysium and Hades have Entrapping traits in both editions, though.
    Those who wanders by can use portals, but I read in lore books that locals always do their best to not allow anyone to use them. If they are trapped, why allow others to run away?

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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VIII

    Quote Originally Posted by Edreyn View Post
    After someone here mentioned Carceri, I remembered what was bothering me for some time. One of lore books says, that Mercy Killers have an outpost there. Obviously there is a portal to Sigil in this prison\fortress and it can be used by Mercy Killers without problem. So, why Carceri locals won't try to siege this place? No way that this fortress could withstand an attack of a full scale army.
    The simplest problem, and one I've articulated before, is that true denizens of Carceri are the kind of person who would stop right before the finish line so they could turn around to flash the middle finger to everyone else. Carceri is the plane of the monologuing villain who just has to let slip his master plan in an attempt to make the hero even infinitesimally more miserable. It's the plane of sour grapes. Why wouldn't they go after the Mercykillers' portal, or any other known and stable one? Because it would mean accepting on some level the help of others was necessary to do what you couldn't alone, and everyone else in the multiverse is a schmuck. Not only are they all schmucks, but it's also vitally important that you let them know they are all schmucks. Gods forbid someone be allowed to be wrong on the Internet think they were in any way needed, or in any way more powerful than you.

    Quote Originally Posted by PairO'Dice Lost View Post
    1) The 3e D&DG has example monotheistic and dualistic religions in the back, but I can't actually think of any cases where similar religions show up in published settings; even the Silver Flame in Eberron, which appears to be monotheistic at first glance, is syncretic with the Sovereign Host. Do you know of any obscure settings, Spelljammer worlds, etc. that have just one or two gods, or have religions teaching that any other gods besides their one/two god(s) are fakers/demon princes/etc.?
    Lolth controls a couple of worlds where she is the only deity. There was a world depicted in a Dungeon magazine adventure ruled by a trio of deities, which is close but not quite. Jakandor might be closest; the Charonti used to worship a god of death and rebirth called Thanhotep (some few still do), while their opponents the Knorr ubiquitously follow the War Mother. They have some subordinate beliefs (hearth gods, various spirits) but only one unifying deity.

    2) Aside from the Spirit Realm of Kara Tur, the Gray and Black of Athas, and the Shadow World of Aebrynis (and kinda sorta Krynn's Ethereal Sea), are there other settings out there that have replacements for or variations on the local Ethereal and/or Shadow Planes?
    None immediately spring to mind; I'm assuming Ravenloft doesn't count, considering.

    a) The fate of the soul after death is fairly well-defined in various materials, but the origin of souls is much less so. Aside from the information on the Wellspring in MoI and the soul fonts in Bastion of Broken Souls, is there any other information on how souls are made, how creatures are ensouled, etc.?
    Bastion of Broken Souls is basically the source for information on preincarnate souls, which spring forth from special places in the Positive Energy Plane.

    b) What are souls made of? Just pure positive energy (and, if one is using MoI, presumably a bit of essentia), or N parts positive energy to M parts belief-stuff, or...?
    We've never been given the answer in any detail, but the heart of a soul is pure positive energy. As it changes from positive energy into a soul, it acquires what one might call an "address," a unique serial number demarcating its place in the universe as a thing separate from the energy that birthed it, which gives it an identity to the Astral conduits that will transfer it where it belongs. This process of becoming something distinctive is when a soul becomes a soul, and as its energy becomes more than the sum of its parts, it transforms from simple positive energy into the blend of essentia and positive energy that a soul is, linked to its Astral address and its temporal thread.
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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VIII

    The simplest problem, and one I've articulated before, is that true denizens of Carceri are the kind of person who would stop right before the finish line so they could turn around to flash the middle finger to everyone else. Carceri is the plane of the monologuing villain who just has to let slip his master plan in an attempt to make the hero even infinitesimally more miserable. It's the plane of sour grapes. Why wouldn't they go after the Mercykillers' portal, or any other known and stable one? Because it would mean accepting on some level the help of others was necessary to do what you couldn't alone, and everyone else in the multiverse is a schmuck. Not only are they all schmucks, but it's also vitally important that you let them know they are all schmucks. Gods forbid someone be allowed to be wrong on the Internet think they were in any way needed, or in any way more powerful than you.
    Yes, I understand, thanks!

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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VIII

    Quote Originally Posted by afroakuma View Post
    Lolth controls a couple of worlds where she is the only deity. There was a world depicted in a Dungeon magazine adventure ruled by a trio of deities, which is close but not quite. Jakandor might be closest; the Charonti used to worship a god of death and rebirth called Thanhotep (some few still do), while their opponents the Knorr ubiquitously follow the War Mother. They have some subordinate beliefs (hearth gods, various spirits) but only one unifying deity.
    Ah, Jakandor, I'd completely forgotten about that one, time for a wiki binge.

    What worlds does Lolth control, or where could I read more about that? I initially thought of the worlds behind the gates in Queen of the Demonweb Pits, but those worlds are under invasion by Lolth rather than controlled by her and priests on those worlds can access their own gods just fine.

    A triumvirate of gods is pretty close. Do you happen to remember which Dungeon issue that was, or a name I could search for?
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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VIII

    What does Chronepsis look like?
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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VIII

    Quote Originally Posted by Bartmanhomer View Post
    What does Chronepsis look like?
    Resident Vancian Apologist

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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VIII

    Quote Originally Posted by Eldan View Post
    Ok. Thank you.
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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VIII

    Ye of the evil 'fro, I ask you:

    How do souls interact with the Inner planes?

    Let's say that an adventurer is killed on a demiplane or elemental plane, connected to the Ethereal but with no Astral conduit. What happens when they die? Do they carry an astral conduit with them? Do they get (hypothetically) get sucked up through the Ordial Plane? Does their soul merge with the elemental plane in some manner? Do they become ghosts? And, because this question came up in a Dark Sun game, does the Grey affect the passage of the soul in this occurrance?

    Likewise, how do Ghosts come to manifest on the Ethereal, rather than the Astral? They are a being of pure soul; how do they manage to anchor themselves in the the plane of substance rather than belief?
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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VIII

    Quote Originally Posted by Fable Wright View Post
    Likewise, how do Ghosts come to manifest on the Ethereal, rather than the Astral? They are a being of pure soul; how do they manage to anchor themselves in the the plane of substance rather than belief?
    That question sounds awefully familiar...

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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VIII

    Quote Originally Posted by Eldan View Post
    I imagine him as resting atop a huge pile of HD Rosettas rather than hourglasses
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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VIII

    Tome of Magic p198 mentions a Dwarven proclivity towards Truename magic and a trend towards Truename research in Dwarven genealogy and scholarship.

    How common are pure classed Truenamers in Dwarven society, and specifically what would they contribute that the much more common, prestigious and generally far more powerful Clerics would not?
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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VIII

    Also, how do places with multiple sun gods (or multiple gods of other unitary things) that aren't affiliated with each other work? Is it like a bunch of people all messing with the thermostat? Does thy additively make the sun more sunlike? Are they merely sunlike themselves and not actually in control of the sun? Should some be assumed to be visiting gods of some other sun? Are they forced to regulate different aspects of the sun, even if they are understood by mortals as simply THE sun god? Or is it a combination of some of these or something else entirely?
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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VIII

    I have a few questions:

    1. Does Ao and Lady Of Pain have a relationship together?

    2. What's Ao and Lady Of Pain alignment?
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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VIII

    Quote Originally Posted by Bartmanhomer View Post
    I have a few questions:

    1. Does Ao and Lady Of Pain have a relationship together?
    NO.
    2. What's Ao and Lady Of Pain alignment?
    Both are probably True Neutral, but nobody can really be sure of that.
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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VIII

    Quote Originally Posted by enderlord99 View Post
    Both are probably True Neutral, but nobody can really be sure of that.
    The concerns of Ao and the Lady are largely orthogonal to alignment. They don't really care about Good, Evil, Law, or Chaos - they are concerned that Sigil and the Forgotten Realms run the way they want them to. So they would likely be perceived as True Neutral within the alignment quadrants, as this is the location of 'can't be bothered either way' characters as well as the lunatic 'everything must be forced into balance at all times' philosophy. If either being actually encouraged having a cult they would probably lean toward Lawful followers, as 'shut up and follow the rules' would be basically the entirety of their belief system.

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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VIII

    The Lady is too fast to punish people and punishments are always extremely harsh. Doesn't that make her closer to Lawful and maybe Evil? At least one of those? I always imagined her as LN or LE.
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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VIII

    Quote Originally Posted by Edreyn View Post
    The Lady is too fast to punish people and punishments are always extremely harsh. Doesn't that make her closer to Lawful and maybe Evil? At least one of those? I always imagined her as LN or LE.
    She also doesn't transcribe her laws, and there can be some inconsistency in how she delivers it—will standing in her shadow cause you to be flayed, or ignored? Will crossing her path be ignored, or not? Why did she randomly decide to end the factions one day in a very abrupt and brutal manner without any prior warning? She's a bit too capricious to be Lawful, a bit too invested in doing good works (like maintaining a free public library) and maintaining the order of the universe without stacking it to her personal benefit to be Evil, and too draconian to be Good.
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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VIII

    Maybe, this line from the Al-Qadim is applicable to Ao and Lady of Pain too?
    The Great Gods are neither good nor evil, lawful nor chaotic. They are beyond such matters. Bravery can be found in the most noble faris and the most black-hearted assassin, and who is Hajama to turn his ear from either of them? Individual followers or churches may be good or evil, but the Great gods are above these quibbles. This sets them apart from common gods and heathen deities, who are usually lock-stepped into their believers' alignments.

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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VIII

    Quote Originally Posted by ShurikVch View Post
    Maybe, this line from the Al-Qadim is applicable to Ao and Lady of Pain too?
    It applies to Ao (who is an Overgod, which is likely what's being referred to) but not to the Lady (who is not any sort of god)
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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VIII

    Quote Originally Posted by enderlord99 View Post
    Lady (who is not any sort of god)
    It, probably, was already asked somewhere, but how we can be sure about it?
    I mean - it's not like her statblock actually exists, thus - anything goes?..

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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VIII

    Quote Originally Posted by ShurikVch View Post
    It, probably, was already asked somewhere, but how we can be sure about it?
    I mean - it's not like her statblock actually exists, thus - anything goes?..
    Because the Planescape cosmology assigns certain common traits to gods, as a class of beings, and the Lady does not have those traits. (The Planescape cosmology also allows for all kinds of extremely powerful beings that are Not Gods - being a god does not mean you are on top of the power scale. It means you are one of a particular class of beings that fits a group of traits. It also usually means you're pretty powerful but it's not inherent to god-hood.)

  26. - Top - End - #116
    Ogre in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VIII

    I've been working on and off on something inspired by this post in the seventh thread:

    Quote Originally Posted by Afroakuma
    Quote Originally Posted by Tzardok
    I've been re-reading the 3e version of the sha'ir and was thinking about making stats for paraelemental gens when I thought: Are gens related to the Khayal plausible? Could a sha'ir summon a shadow gen? Do the sha'ir's powers even interact with the Khayal?
    Sha'ir powers do not interact with the khayal, who dislike the sha'ir as they do other genies. Renegade poet-vagabonds opposed to order, the sa'alik, are the agents and arbiters who work with the khayal. A su'luk cannot be lawful. Sa'alik are said to "walk alone" because their shadows are separate from them, becoming the facilitators for a su'luk's magic in place of the sha'ir's gen. Sa'alik gain access to shadowcasting but have a more difficult time acquiring spells that do not belong to Shadow.
    So now I finished the su'luk as an alternate class feature for the sha'ir. Thoughts?

    Spoiler: Su'luk
    Show

    Su'luk
    Class: Sha'ir
    Special Requirement: Must not be lawful.
    Level: 1st
    Replaces: If you select this class feature, you don't cast spells, don't gain a Gen Familiar and do not gain the following class abilities: Elemental Protection (5th), Call Janni (7th), Elemental Travel (9th) and Call Genie (11th).
    Benefit: Instead of a gen, you grant your own shadow life and use it as a familiar. The stats for this Umbral Familiar are found after this description.
    As a su'luk, you can cast mysteries and fundamentals and a few arcane spells. You have access to all paths of shadow magic and to arcane illusion and necromancy spells from the spell list for sorcerers and wizards. Unlike shadowcasters you don't need to follow paths when choosing known mysteries. Instead you use the table of known sha'ir spells to determine how many mysteries, fundamentals and arcane spells you know.
    You need to send your familiar to the Shadow Plane to fetch mysteries and spells before you can cast anything. This works by the same rules as a gen familiar fetching spells for his sha’ir master; simply replace all mentions of "arcane spell" with "mystery" and all mentions of "divine spell" with "arcane spell".
    You cast your fundamentals as spell-like abilities and your other mysteries as arcane spells. If all mysteries of a single path are among your known mysteries, you cast those as spell-like abilities too. Spells are always cast as spells. All mysteries (both fundamentals and others) that are cast as spell-like abilities can be cast twice after being fetched before fading from your memory. The total number of mysteries/spells per day you are able to cast remains unchanged.
    At 5th level you gain darkvision 60 ft. (or + 60 ft. on existing darkvision) and damage reduction 4/- against attacks made by creatures native to the Shadow Plane. Furthermore attacks against you have a 20 % miss chance as long as you are not in bright illumination.
    At 7th level you may call a khayal to your aid once per day. This functions as the planar ally spell except that you can call only a single khayal. You must pay the spell's XP cost and bargain with the Khayal as normal. Caster level is equal to class level. At 11th level you may use this ability twice per day.
    At 9th level you can use the shadow walk spell as a spell-like ability once per day. At 15th level you can use it twice per day and at 18th level at will.
    At 11th level you can once per day per point of cha-mod. order your familiar to fetch a mystery that you usually cast as a spell as a spell-like ability or a mystery that you usually cast as a spell-like ability as supernatural ability. This doubles the time the familiar needs to fetch the mystery. Mysteries cast as a supernatural ability can be cast thrice after being fetched before fading from your memory.

    Spoiler: Umbral Familiar
    Show

    Umbral Familiar
    Medium Elemental (Incorporal)
    Hit Dice: 1d8 (4 hp)
    Initiative: +4
    Speed: Fly 40 ft. (perfect)
    Armor Class: 11 (+1 deflection), touch 11, flat-footed 11
    Base Attack/Grapple: +0/-
    Attack: Incorporal touch +0 melee (1d2)
    Full Attack: Incorporal touch +0 melee (1d2)
    Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft.
    Special Attacks -
    Special Qualities: Darkvision 60 ft., elemental traits, fetch mysteries, incorporal traits, shadowy travel
    Saves: Fort +0, Ref +3, Will +1
    Abilities: Str -, Dex 10, Con 10, Int 12, Wis 12, Cha 12
    Skills: Listen +5, Spot +5, Spellcraft +5
    Feats: Combat CastingB, Improved Initiative
    Environment: None
    Organization: Solitary
    Challenge Rating: ½
    Treasure: None
    Alignment: Like the master
    Advancement: By the familiar rules
    Level Adjustment: -

    Fetch Mysteries (Ex): Like the gen's ability to Fetch Spells.

    Shadowy Travel (Sp): The umbral familiar can plane shift at will to the Shadow Plane or from there back to the Material Plane. This ability only transports the familiar. It is otherwise identical to the plane shift spell (caster level 13th).

    Note: I chose medium size because I think a living shadow should have the same size as its owner. Most sha'irs/sa'alik are humans, so...




    And here, as a little extra, the paraelemental gens that caused me to ask that question in the first place. Partially inspired by the paraelemental genies Afro created here:

    Spoiler: Paraelemental gens
    Show

    Ice Gen
    Tiny Outsider (Air, Cold, Water)
    Hit Dice: 1d8 (4 hp)
    Initiative: +2
    Speed: 20 ft. (4 squares), fly 60 ft. (perfect)
    Armor Class: 15 (+2 size, +2 dex, +1 natural), touch 14, flat-footed 13
    Base Attack/Grapple: +1/-9
    Attack: Slam +5 melee (1d2-2 plus 1 cold)
    Full Attack: Two slams +5 melee (1d2-2 plus 1 cold)
    Space/Reach: 2-1/2 ft./0 ft.
    Special Attacks Chill
    Special Qualities: Darkvision 60 ft., elemental endurance, elemental travel, fetch spells, immunity to cold, vulnerability to fire
    Saves: Fort +2, Ref +4, Will +4
    Abilities: Str 7, Dex 14, Con 10, Int 13, Wis 15, Cha 10
    Skills: Concentration +4, Escape Artist +6, Hide +12, Knowledge (Arcane) +5, Knowledge (The Planes) +5, Listen +4, Move Silenty +4, Search +5, Spellcraft +5, Spot +4, Survival +6
    Feats: Combat CastingB, Weapon Finesse
    Environment: Any elemental plane
    Organization: Solitary
    Challenge Rating: ½
    Treasure: Standard
    Alignment: Often lawful neutral
    Advancement: 2-3 hd (tiny), 4-6 hd (small)
    Level Adjustment: -

    Chill (Ex): A ice gen's freezingly cold body deals 1 point of extra cold damage whenever it hits in melee, or in each round that it maintains a hold while grappling.

    Magma Gen
    Tiny Outsider (Earth, Fire)
    Hit Dice: 1d8+1 (5 hp)
    Initiative: +1
    Speed: 20 ft. (4 squares), fly 60 ft. (perfect), burrow 10 ft.
    Armor Class: 15 (+2 size, +1 dex, +2 natural), touch 13, flat-footed 14
    Base Attack/Grapple: +1/-8
    Attack: Slam +4 melee (1d2-1)
    Full Attack: Two slams +4 melee (1d2-1)
    Space/Reach: 2-1/2 ft./0 ft.
    Special Attacks -
    Special Qualities: Damage reduction 1/adamantite, darkvision 60 ft., elemental endurance, elemental travel, fetch spells, immunity to fire, vulnerability to ice
    Saves: Fort +3, Ref +3, Will +4
    Abilities: Str 9, Dex 12, Con 12, Int 13, Wis 15, Cha 10
    Skills: Concentration +5, Escape Artist +5, Hide +11, Knowledge (Arcane) +5, Knowledge (The Planes) +5, Listen +4, Move Silenty +3, Search +5, Spellcraft +5, Spot +4, Survival +6
    Feats: Combat CastingB, Weapon Finesse
    Environment: Any elemental plane
    Organization: Solitary
    Challenge Rating: ½
    Treasure: Standard
    Alignment: Often lawful good
    Advancement: 2-3 hd (tiny), 4-6 hd (small)
    Level Adjustment: -

    Ooze Gen
    Tiny Outsider (Earth, Water)
    Hit Dice: 1d8+2 (6 hp)
    Initiative: +1
    Speed: 20 ft. (4 squares), fly 60 ft. (perfect), swim 20 ft.
    Armor Class: 14 (+2 size, +1 dex, +1 natural), touch 13, flat-footed 13
    Base Attack/Grapple: +1/-9
    Attack: Slam +4 melee (1d2-2 plus 1 sound)
    Full Attack: Two slams +4 melee (1d2-2 plus 1 sound)
    Space/Reach: 2-1/2 ft./0 ft.
    Special Attacks Vibrations
    Special Qualities: Darkvision 60 ft., elemental endurance, elemental travel, fetch spells, immunity to sound, vulnerability to elektricity
    Saves: Fort +4, Ref +3, Will +4
    Abilities: Str 7, Dex 12, Con 14, Int 13, Wis 15, Cha 10
    Skills: Concentration +6, Escape Artist +5, Hide +11, Knowledge (Arcane) +5, Knowledge (The Planes) +5, Listen +4, Move Silenty +3, Search +5, Spellcraft +5, Spot +4, Survival +6, Swim +6
    Feats: Combat CastingB, Weapon Finesse
    Environment: Any elemental plane
    Organization: Solitary
    Challenge Rating: ½
    Treasure: Standard
    Alignment: Often neutral
    Advancement: 2-3 hd (tiny), 4-6 hd (small)
    Level Adjustment: -

    Vibrations (Su): The ooze gens inherited from the sureshi an affinity for sound. A ooze gen deals 1 point of extra sound damage whenever it hits in melee, or in each round that it maintains a hold while grappling.

    Smoke Gen
    Tiny Outsider (Air, Fire)
    Hit Dice: 1d8+1 (5 hp)
    Initiative: +2
    Speed: 20 ft. (4 squares), fly 70 ft. (perfect)
    Armor Class: 15 (+2 size, +2 dex, +1 natural), touch 14, flat-footed 13
    Base Attack/Grapple: +1/-9
    Attack: Slam +5 melee (1d2-2)
    Full Attack: Two slams +5 melee (1d2-2)
    Space/Reach: 2-1/2 ft./0 ft.
    Special Attacks -
    Special Qualities: Billow, darkvision 60 ft., elemental endurance, elemental travel, fetch spells, immunity to fire, vulnerability to ice
    Saves: Fort +3, Ref +4, Will +4
    Abilities: Str 7, Dex 14, Con 12, Int 13, Wis 15, Cha 10
    Skills: Concentration +5, Escape Artist +6, Hide +12, Knowledge (Arcane) +5, Knowledge (The Planes) +5, Listen +4, Move Silenty +4, Search +5, Spellcraft +5, Spot +4, Survival +6
    Feats: Combat CastingB, Weapon Finesse
    Environment: Any elemental plane
    Organization: Solitary
    Challenge Rating: ½
    Treasure: Standard
    Alignment: Often chaotic evil
    Advancement: 2-3 hd (tiny), 4-6 hd (small)
    Level Adjustment: -

    Billow (Su): Once per round as an immediate action, a smoke gen may allow its physical form to briefly billow out as a cloud of smoke, becoming insubstantial, in response to an attack directed against it. That attack fails to affect the smoke gen. Certain effects which manipulate air or gases (gust of wind, etc.) cannot be effectively avoided in this fashion and take full effect as normal. The smoke gen must be aware of the attack to be able to billow. Any time a smoke gen would be denied its Dexterity bonus to AC, it cannot billow.

    Notes: The existence of paraelemental gens makes the Elemental Protection class feature of the sha'ir a bit complicated. For one, if the ooze gen is immun to sound, Elemental Protection should also grant resistence to sound and a bonus to saves against attacks based on sound.
    More importantly, Elemental Protection grants a damage reduction against attacks by creatures of the four elemental subtypes, with a higher damage reduction against the gen familiar's elemental subtype. As paraelemental gens have two elemental subtypes, this would make them more useful than normal gens.
    For balancing I'm thinking of either choosing one of the two subtypes or loosing the lesser damage reduction against the two other subtypes. Thoughts?
    Finally, I'm not sure wether Billow is too strong an ability for the smoke gen. The problem is, I'm not sure how to weaken it, I don't want to copy the ability of another gen and I would like to reflect the dukhan genie in some way and the only other ability unique to that one is smokesight, which appears too weak compared to the abilities of the other gens.

  27. - Top - End - #117
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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VIII

    I have some new questions.

    1) I know there are 9 races\types of outsiders defined by 9 standard alignments. I also know that each evil plane has its own denizens. But are there unique native outsiders to planes that are "in-between" alignment-wise: Bytopia, Beastlands, Arcadia, Acheron, Ysgard and Pandemonium?

    2) For some planes, I can't really understand the difference between petitioners and mortals residing there. Specifically Bytopia and Acheron. Most of Bytopia residents are gnomes and dwarves, mortal races that love this place and also petitioners have similar forms and even similar life style. Pretty much the same is with Acheron, but with goblinoids instead of gnomes. So, if someone visits one of those planes, how he would distinguish between a mortal resident and a petitioner?

    3) Rilmani have been mentioned quite a lot here. But if finding about other outsiders is relatively easy, I don't have any info on those. Where I can read about them? I don't mean stats, I am much more interested in lore, like how they usually behave, how they are organized, how their government looks like, how they treat outsiders, what relation they have to Blood War etc.

    Thank in advance!

  28. - Top - End - #118
    Ogre in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VIII

    Quote Originally Posted by Edreyn View Post
    I have some new questions.

    1) I know there are 9 races\types of outsiders defined by 9 standard alignments. I also know that each evil plane has its own denizens. But are there unique native outsiders to planes that are "in-between" alignment-wise: Bytopia, Beastlands, Arcadia, Acheron, Ysgard and Pandemonium?
    I'll assume that you mean big races on par with the exemplars or at least the gereleth. Otherwise your question can be answered simply by looking into a Planescape bestiary.
    The answer is no. Afro once tried to create such big races for all the in-between planes, and if you know where to look you may find his write-up of the Lamenti, his version of a Pandemonium race, in the archives of this forum. But he stalled, because he couldn't find a clear inspiration for most of those planes. Seems like the gereleth stay the exception, not the rule.
    2) For some planes, I can't really understand the difference between petitioners and mortals residing there. Specifically Bytopia and Acheron. Most of Bytopia residents are gnomes and dwarves, mortal races that love this place and also petitioners have similar forms and even similar life style. Pretty much the same is with Acheron, but with goblinoids instead of gnomes. So, if someone visits one of those planes, how he would distinguish between a mortal resident and a petitioner?
    I am unclear what the question is here. Do you find it confusing that on some planes/divine realms petitioners take the appearance that they had when alive? Are you wondering why living gnomes/whatever are drawn to the same places as dead ones? Or do you want to know how to differentiate between living beings and petitioners in general?

    3) Rilmani have been mentioned quite a lot here. But if finding about other outsiders is relatively easy, I don't have any info on those. Where I can read about them? I don't mean stats, I am much more interested in lore, like how they usually behave, how they are organized, how their government looks like, how they treat outsiders, what relation they have to Blood War etc.

    Thank in advance!
    This question I will defere to someone who knows the Planescape books better than I do. If I had to guess I would think that Planes of Conflict would be a good start. IIRC the Rilmani got of all the exemplars the least amount of material in 2e, so you won't find a lot.

  29. - Top - End - #119
    Ettin in the Playground
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    Post Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VIII

    Quote Originally Posted by tyckspoon View Post
    Because the Planescape cosmology assigns certain common traits to gods, as a class of beings, and the Lady does not have those traits.
    Such as?..
    No, I'm serious: Demogorgon is a god in Planescape, but Doresain - isn't.
    So, how we can be sure?..


    Quote Originally Posted by Edreyn View Post
    1) I know there are 9 races\types of outsiders defined by 9 standard alignments. I also know that each evil plane has its own denizens. But are there unique native outsiders to planes that are "in-between" alignment-wise: Bytopia, Beastlands, Arcadia, Acheron, Ysgard and Pandemonium?
    Bytopia:
    Adamantine Dragon (Dragon #321)
    Fire Gnome (Planar Handbook)
    (2E) Ethyk (Planes of Conflict/Monstrous Compendium Annual Volume Three)
    (2E) Ni'iath (Planes of Conflict)

    Beastlands:
    Beast Dragon (Dragon #321)
    Celestial Wyvern
    Dread Blossom Swarm (Monster Manual III)
    Gaspar (Planar Handbook)
    Hollyphant (Book of Exalted Deeds)
    Kadtanach (Dungeon #100)
    Spirit of the Wild (Dungeon #148)
    Wild Hunter
    Xap-Yaup Energon (Planar Handbook)
    (2E) Animal Lords - Cat, Hawk, Lizard, Wolf (Planescape Monstrous Compendium Appendix/Monstrous Compendium Outer Planes Appendix)
    (2E) Aeserpent (Planes of Conflict)
    (2E) Asrai (Planes of Chaos)
    (2E) Mortai (Planescape Monstrous Compendium Appendix II/Monstrous Compendium Outer Planes Appendix)
    (2E) Oread (Planes of Chaos)
    (2E) Warden Beast (Planes of Conflict/Monstrous Compendium Outer Planes Appendix)

    Arcadia:
    Arcadian Avenger (Monster Manual V)
    Chaturani - Pawn, Knight, Bishop, Rook, Queen, King (Dragon #358)
    Guardian Familiar (Dangerous Denizens: The Monsters of Tellene)
    Rhek (Book of Exalted Deeds)
    (2E) Busen (Planes of Law)
    (2E) Formian - Worker, Warrior, Myrmarch, Queen (Planes of Law/Monstrous Compendium Annual Volume Three)
    (2E) T'uen-rin (Planescape Monstrous Compendium Appendix II/Monstrous Compendium Outer Planes Appendix)

    Acheron:
    Achaierai
    Aspect of Hextor (Miniatures Handbook)
    Axiomatic Dragonne (Planar Handbook)
    Bladeling (Lord of the Iron Fortress)
    Bonespear (Fiend Folio)
    Chronotyryn (Fiend Folio)
    Justicator (Monster Manual III)
    Maug (Fiend Folio)
    Reth Dekala (Tome of Battle)
    Rust Dragon (Draconomicon)
    Siege Beetle (Monster Manual V)
    Steelwing (Monster Manual V)
    Steel Predator (Fiend Folio)
    Xong-Yong Energon (Planar Handbook)
    (2E) Fhorge (Planescape Monstrous Compendium Appendix II)
    (2E) Hook Spider (Planescape Monstrous Compendium Appendix II)
    (2E) Observer (Planescape Monstrous Compendium Appendix II)
    (2E) Sword Spirit (Planescape Monstrous Compendium Appendix II)
    (1E) Sugo (Dragon #47)

    Ysgard:
    Aspect of Kord (Miniatures Handbook)
    Bariaur (Book of Exalted Deeds/Planar Handbook)
    Battle Dragon (Draconomicon)
    Fensir (Fiend Folio)
    Lillend
    Valkyrie (Tome of Battle)
    (2E) Asrai (Planes of Chaos)
    (2E) Oread (Planes of Chaos)

    Pandemonium:
    Bloodthorn (Fiend Folio)
    Empathos (Dangerous Denizens: The Monsters of Tellene)
    Garngrath (Monster Manual V)
    Hordlings (Dungeon #124)
    Howling Dragon (Draconomicon)
    Howler
    Mivilorn (Monster Manual III)
    Windblades (Monster Manual IV)
    (2E) Darkweaver (Planescape Monstrous Compendium Appendix II)
    (2E) Murska (Planes of Chaos)
    (2E) Miska the Wolf-Spider (Rod of Seven Parts)
    (1E) Mapmaker (Dragon #47)

    Quote Originally Posted by Edreyn View Post
    3) Rilmani have been mentioned quite a lot here. But if finding about other outsiders is relatively easy, I don't have any info on those. Where I can read about them? I don't mean stats, I am much more interested in lore, like how they usually behave, how they are organized, how their government looks like, how they treat outsiders, what relation they have to Blood War etc.
    They're in the Fiend Folio and Planescape Monstrous Compendium Appendix II

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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VIII

    Quote Originally Posted by ShurikVch View Post
    Such as?..
    No, I'm serious: Demogorgon is a god in Planescape, but Doresain - isn't.
    So, how we can be sure?..
    Demogorgon isn't a deity. He is a demon lord. Doresain, on the other hand, is a deity, at least since 3.5 (I know a write up of him in 3.0 that isn't a god).

    Among the qualities every deity has in Planescape are the ability to grant spells to worshippers, having a portfolio (an aspect of reality they have power over that is of importance for their Material Plane worshippers) and the fact that they starve and die when they aren't worshipped.
    The Lady lacks all those qualities (well, technically we don't know that she can't grant divine spells. We only know that she never ever does.) The Lady doesn't die of lack of belief, oh no. Instead, she kills everyone who dares to try to worship her. Furthermore, she doesn't have any discernible portfolio. Her only area of interest is, what, Sigil and keeping gods and similiarly powerful things out? How is that in any way usefull as a portfolio?
    I'm sure if we think about it we can find other qualities of deityhood that don't apply to the Lady, but those should be enough.

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