afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VIII

[afroakuma]

What position/location/whatever has the Temporal Energy Plane in the Great Wheel?

Temporal Energy is a weird kind of plane because it exists insofar as it has to, and bears features of both an Inner Plane and a Transitive Plane. It is, ultimately, an aberration of the cosmos, one of the more novel of its sort (the Region of Dreams and the Plane of Faerie are examples of other aberrant planes). Cosmologically if it could be "situated" it would be at the heart of the other Inner Planes and yet outside them; it is a face of a hypercube, as it were, a four-dimensional location for the fourth dimension of existence.

What planes does it touch and what connections does it have?

In one sense, Temporal Energy technically touches virtually all of them, but in the traditional sense of planar connections it does not; rather, it is coexistent with Temporal Prime, and "contacts" other planes by way of that dimension. In the sense of borders, it has none.

Are there Quasi-Elemental planes representing the combination of an element and temporal energy?

No. Sages have theorized the existence of mysterious "transitional force" or "transitional existence" regions in the Elemental and Energy Planes that represent a contact between that plane and Temporal Energy, but no serious student of planar metaphysics pays them any heed.

[Tzardok]

Damn, that answer was inspiring. I actually designed a creature to inhabit transitional areas. You can see it here, if you want.

Besides that, I wanted to remind you that you wanted to post your headcanon on the relationship between Maglubiyet and Kikanuti.

I also have two questions, if you feel up for it:

What's the deal with ogre magi? My understanding is that ogres are the creation of Vaprak, but he doesn't sound like the guy who would create the magi. So where do they come from, and what is their relationship to actual ogres?

If an ur-priest enters the Demiplane of Dread, does he still do his thing? Is he still "stealing" trickling down divine power, does he "steal" from the Dark Powers, or do the Dark Powers their usual and just gift power to him while pretending to be something else? Does he notice a difference?

[afroakuma]

Besides that, I wanted to remind you that you wanted to post your headcanon on the relationship between Maglubiyet and Kikanuti.

Kikanuti is, or at least originally was, a piece of Maglubiyet.

At the dawn of goblinkind, there was a darkness, a great cavern, and in that darkness burned a mighty ember, some say a burning drop of the blood of Gruumsh that reviled its origin due to the weakness that caused it to be shed; others suggest a spark from the first strikes of Moradin's hammer on his anvil. Whatever its origin, the ember was a pair of flaming eyes that looked past the darkness and saw another light beyond. The ember sought to grow, to spread, to devour this light and become the only light. Part of the ember sought to go forth, to discover this other light, to know it and spread within it, to explore and to conquer. The greater part of the ember was suspicious of the other light, for if the ember wished to devour this other, surely that other would seek to devour the ember in kind. To go forth in ignorance would be foolish, but to remain in the darkness would mean it could not conquer.

The ember tore the lesser part of itself away and made it into another being, something it was willing to sacrifice. The part of itself that wanted to go forth and see. To spread. The ember commanded his other half to go out of the darkness, to look upon the other light and to come back with knowledge. She went forth as instructed, returning to tell the ember that within the light, many creatures were spreading, multiplying, exploring, conquering. The ember, suspicious, considered the possibility that this was a trick by his other half, to pull him from his safety in the darkness and bring him among enemies to be ambushed; however, not wanting to chance that she might be telling the truth and he could be outpaced by such rivals, he joined with her, giving but the least of himself, and they created the goblins. He would not give more, for he feared that his creations would turn their strength against him, and could not stand to be betrayed. These, of course, were Maglubiyet and Kikanuti.

Kikanuti wanted Maglubiyet to join her beyond the cavern, to step into the light along with their creations, but once again he was suspicious; perhaps she had tricked him into spreading himself among these lesser beings so that he could be made vulnerable. Knowing she had given of herself in kind, he tested her by asking her to go forth once more alone. Kikanuti went forth bearing nothing but her counterpart's suspicions of being led into an ambush, and a shadowy entity of formless power and a hunger to take shape was drawn to the foul suspicions that Maglubiyet had harbored around his consort, merging with the latent curse of the goblin god and seizing Kikanuti, wresting from her a part of the goblinoid nature and carrying it off to shadows of its own. This was Hruggek, and with his assault of the goddess, the bugbear race was born.

When she returned, Maglubiyet could see that his fears were realized, but Kikanuti rebuked him, saying that he was responsible for bringing his own fears to life, and that if they went forth there would be nothing to fear. Convinced that she was unreliable, he "relented," joining with her to create two sons - one strong, one bold - and sending them forth along with any of his creations who seemed more akin to their curious mother than their suspicious father, hoping his sons would report on their mother's falsehoods, asking all three to return to pledge that the world was as she said it was. This time, Kikanuti refused to return; she had her children free from the darkness, Maglubiyet had his sons to struggle with their father's suspicion and distrust, and it had been she who had paid the price for his poisonous nature last time. No longer would she waste her time on him, and when his sons returned to announce this, also telling their father that rivals drew near and that the time to act had come, he decided they had all betrayed him and that his sons, two against one, would surely betray him if he did not act first.

Flattering his sons, he manipulated them, sending them forth on missions of great importance - the time to act, as they had said. Sent to challenge the gods of the dwarves and the orcs, his sons did not return from the field of battle, for he had intentionally dispatched them to die. However, by now, Maglubiyet had overextended himself. He had cast off much of himself to create Kikanuti, fearing his own impulse to explore would be the death of him; spread a meager but still meaningful part of his essence into goblinkind, out of fear that he should be outpaced by unknown rivals; invested still more of himself into his sons, to confirm his suspicions of his wife. As he had remained in his cavern and cast so much of his own self away, he had grown weaker, and with none left to serve him and unwilling to risk surrendering even more of himself, he at long last grew fearful of remaining in the darkness and being seized upon by something that would come in to destroy him. He led his goblins out into the light, only to find that because of his meanness in giving of himself to them, his vast delay in bringing them forth on the world, and his casting aside from them all that should have belonged to them, his creations were smaller, weaker, and ill-suited to cooperating with one another to accomplish his goals. Maglubiyet reclaimed the bodies of his dead sons and from their essence brought forth a stronger creation, the hobgoblin; but ever suspicious that he might be betrayed, he elevated Khurgorbaeyag to divinity to "motivate" the goblins while fusing his sons' bodies together to create the hobgoblin patron Nomog-Geaya, putting them at odds to keep himself feeling secure.

Kikanuti has never bothered with any of them, nor with the meager overtures of Bargrivyek the Peacekeeper; her children have what they have of Maglubiyet and she has no desire to deal with him now or ever again. As he had exiled them all in the dark era, the goblin god has no claim over them. Meanwhile, from his fears in the darkness, festering for untold aeons, a terrible shadow came forth - something Maglubiyet had cast from himself without ever knowing it. The darkness desired his fear. The darkness desired to bring the death he dreaded. When the goblins and their god left the cave, the darkness followed - a Stalker hunting goblins, death ever at their heels.

What's the deal with ogre magi? My understanding is that ogres are the creation of Vaprak, but he doesn't sound like the guy who would create the magi. So where do they come from, and what is their relationship to actual ogres?

Ogre magi, otherwise known as oni, emanate from an effort of Vaprak to create divinely-empowered champions to bring destruction to the civilized races by incarnating three of his offspring on the Prime Material Plane. While his attempts failed, the bloodlines of his son Muaj and those who followed him became the first ogre mages after the wrathful Vaprak, furious that his sons failed him, exiled them from the Abyss. The existence of other forms of oni as well as the so-called "elemental mages" suggests that he's made multiple attempts at this same gimmick. Vaprak is nothing if not riddled with offspring and also deeply persistently stupid and angry.

If an ur-priest enters the Demiplane of Dread, does he still do his thing?

Yes but no. He's no longer truly stealing from the divine. He's getting his juice from the Dark Powers deciding it would be funny to let him have it.

Does he notice a difference?

Oh very yes. An ur-priest in the Demiplane of Dread finds his stealing beginning to catch up to him. In some form or other, the spells he "steals" begin to come for payback. An ur-priest casting a healing spell might discover the healed wound reflecting on his own body with a scar or see his skin break out in hives or boils; casting a buff like bull's strength on himself might result in temporary but quite apparent physical deformity, perhaps with some lingering touches. The ur-priest will grow increasingly paranoid that the gods know about him and are out to get him, and of course the Dark Powers will enjoy that.

[Tzardok]

That was a very nice origin story. And as a bonus, it also explains what I call the Bugbear Problem.

[enderlord99]

I find it darkly hilarious how Maglubiyet is so thoroughly trapped in a paranoid loop of "I think my creation might lie to me, so I'll create another one that won't, to verify... but what if it also lies? I'd better make another other one to verify..." that such thinking is the origin of literally every other Goblin deity and literally every goblin subrace (even if it's somewhat indirectly, in the case of bugbears)

[Tzardok]

Can the cosmology of Rokugan, as described in Fortunes and Winds, be reconciled with the Great Wheel? Or must Rokugan be relegated to an alternate cosmology?

[afroakuma]

Can the cosmology of Rokugan, as described in Fortunes and Winds, be reconciled with the Great Wheel? Or must Rokugan be relegated to an alternate cosmology?

Have never read the book, but from a cursory summary...

• Jigoku would be a layer, or multiple layers, of the Abyss.
• Gaki-Do would be a realm or region of Cathrys, second layer of Carceri.
• Sakkaku would be a realm or region of Limbo.
• Meido would be a local region of the Astral Plane.
• Yomi would be a realm or region of Abellio, first layer of Arcadia.
• Tengoku would be a realm or region of Mercuria (possibly sliding to Lunia during the night and back again), second (and first) layer(s) of Celestia.
• Chikushudo would be a realm or region of Krigala (likely either stationary or shifting to Brux and Karasuthra appropriately), first (or all) layer(s) of the Beastlands.
• Toshigoku would be a realm or region of Thuldanin, second layer of Acheron.
• Yume-Do is the Region of Dreams.

[Tzardok]

Part of the problem I had with the cosmology is that it apparantly has no transitive planes, with different contact points (based on "proximity" which again is based on conceptual connections and the will of the inhabitants) where one can open portals as the main way of getting from one spirit realm to another. This interpretation would require a lot of irregular planar contacts (Yomi and Jigoku for example have lots of connection points as they represent to sides of the same coin: absolute honor vs. aboslute vileness and dishonor).

Still, I think I can work with that. Thanks for your answer.

[afroakuma]

Part of the problem I had with the cosmology is that it apparantly has no transitive planes, with different contact points (based on "proximity" which again is based on conceptual connections and the will of the inhabitants) where one can open portals as the main way of getting from one spirit realm to another. This interpretation would require a lot of irregular planar contacts (Yomi and Jigoku for example have lots of connection points as they represent to sides of the same coin: absolute honor vs. aboslute vileness and dishonor).

Still, I think I can work with that. Thanks for your answer.

Not really all that hard, we've seen plenty of realms with connections between two planes (Hecate's two realms, for example) and even have a documented case of a direct portal from the Abyss to Celestia. For spiritual realms connected to the same local Astral and Ethereal phenomena, and here it's more a particularity of the sphere than anything else, it's not at all unreasonable that they have more substantial connections by and large. It's not like they are actually physically proximate; more metaphysically so. The sphere would simply be a lot more Astrally active than most are. Could be the reason why their realm of the dead is actually within the Astral rather than being fully housed on an Outer Plane.

[enderlord99]

Does this song fit with Ravenloft, and if so, which Domain?

I'm tempted to presume "yes" because "heaven ain't close in a place like this" certainly fits with a place that's both evil-leaning (making the Upper Planes conceptually far) and on the Ethereal (making all of the Outer Planes physically far)

Furthermore, I'm also tempted to say "Barovia" because it's about both romantic jealousy and seeing the same faces repeatedly.

I wanted to check that my reasoning isn't stupid, though.

[Tzardok]

Have never read the book, but from a cursory summary...

• Jigoku would be a layer, or multiple layers, of the Abyss.
• Gaki-Do would be a realm or region of Cathrys, second layer of Carceri.
• Sakkaku would be a realm or region of Limbo.
• Meido would be a local region of the Astral Plane.
• Yomi would be a realm or region of Abellio, first layer of Arcadia.
• Tengoku would be a realm or region of Mercuria (possibly sliding to Lunia during the night and back again), second (and first) layer(s) of Celestia.
• Chikushudo would be a realm or region of Krigala (likely either stationary or shifting to Brux and Karasuthra appropriately), first (or all) layer(s) of the Beastlands.
• Toshigoku would be a realm or region of Thuldanin, second layer of Acheron.
• Yume-Do is the Region of Dreams.

After re-reading Fortune & Winds, I've come to the conclusion that all of those are good fits except maybe for Sakkaku. I feel that it fits better as a region of the Plane of Faerie, on account of its association with humour and whimsy, its very fey and trickster- like inhabitants, the inability of other planes to shut it out and its aberrant cosmological place (it's the only plane in the cosmology that never receives the souls of the dead, nor does it house any deities). Not to mention that it has an actual landscape resembling the Material (even if it has no buildings or plants, the ground looks like it's polished and the sky is eternal dusk). I am undecided because it's metaphysics do have a certain amount of "lolrandom" in them, and it lacks Faerie's flowing time trait.

Other questions: I've been thinking about a common language of Shadow (let's call it Tenebric). Would introducing such a language be appropriate, or is there something to Shadow's metaphysics or themes that justifies canon's lack of such a language?

Do we know anything about Merrshaulk's origin (that isn't Serpent Kingdom's retcon)?

[enderlord99]

Other questions: I've been thinking about a common language of Shadow (let's call it Tenebric). Would introducing such a language be appropriate, or is there something to Shadow's metaphysics or themes that justifies canon's lack of such a language?

It stretches really far (though not Far) and is really big, even when compared to other planes. There may well be a language for parts of shadow, even very large parts, but not for shadow as a whole. "Tenebric" is a good enough name for it.

[Caelestion]

Ugh, not Tenebric. At least pick a real word, like Tenebrous.

[Tzardok]

I was told that Tenebric is real word. Allegedly it means something like "vague, incomprehensible, confusing". My first choice would've been Tenebral, in accordance with the German names of the elemental languages (which would mean that in English it would be Tenebran).

[Metastachydium]

Ugh, not Tenebric. At least pick a real word, like Tenebrous.

I was told that Tenebric is real word. Allegedly it means something like "vague, incomprehensible, confusing". My first choice would've been Tenebral, in accordance with the German names of the elemental languages (which would mean that in English it would be Tenebran).

Allegedly

You wound me, good Sir. I will readily grant that our (ancient?) Baatorian fellow poster is not entirely incorrect insofar it might not be a codified lexeme of standard English, but it is very much a real word, derived regularly through the usual end clipping from Latin tenebricus, -a, -um which does have the specified figurative meaning and quite officially at that. The same does not quite stand for such gems from D&D as Aquan to stay within the context of languages and their denominations (and since I'd rather pretend no one ever tried to use the word *noctumancer for any purpose whatsoever).

I could go on to posit that I find Tenebrous a horrible name for a D&D language, given that it doesn't really fit any of the established templates, but that's ultimately a matter of taste. Instead, I will challenge the notion that the Plane of Shadow is unfit to have a lingua franca of its own. Half the Great Wheel from Arcadia to Ysgard gets Clestial as its "Common". The Abyss, a supremely Chaotic and diffuse place of more infinite than thou proportions likewise gets away with having a single language, Abyssal.

[Tzardok]

You wound me, good Sir. I will readily grant that our (ancient?) Baatorian fellow poster is not entirely incorrect insofar it might not be a codified lexeme of standard English, but it is very much a real word, derived regularly through the usual end clipping from Latin tenebricus, -a, -um which does have the specified figurative meaning and quite officially at that. The same does not quite stand for such gems from D&D as Aquan to stay within the context of languages and their denominations

In that regard the German translation is a bit better. Of the elemental languages, one is in fact a real word (Aural is the adjective to aura) and the others are derived from that (Aqual, Ignal and Terral).

Edit: And as for why I said allegedly, it's because after being questioned I did a cursory look in the lexicon and didn't find it, so I wanted to hedge my bets. But you propably have experiences with "hedging"

I could go on to posit that I find Tenebrous a horrible name for a D&D language, given that it doesn't really fit any of the established templates, but that's ultimately a matter of taste.

I would agree. Tenebrous sound more like a being instead of a language (and oh wonder, it is a being in the context of D&D.)

Instead, I will challenge the notion that the Plane of Shadow is unfit to have a lingua franca of its own. Half the Great Wheel from Arcadia to Ysgard gets Celestial as its "Common".

Incidentally, you may like what the fanmade conversion of Planescape to 3.5 on planewalker.com did: it stated that the Archons, Guardinals and Eladrin all used to have languages on their own, but over millenia of cooperation these fused into Celestial. Archon, Elysian and Eladrin are still spoken by some beings, but are generally not used anymore.
(planewalker also invented Fiendish as a failed experiment of a lingua franca of the fiendish races.)

The Abyss, a supremely Chaotic and diffuse place of more infinite than thou proportions likewise gets away with having a single language, Abyssal.

On the other hand, the Abyss is mostly inhabited by a single group of beings, even if it is as diverse as demons. Shadow lacks such a group.
On the athach's third hand, according to the Spelljammer setting Common is spoken on pretty much any world, even those that never were touched by human hands, so that is not exactly a counter argument.

[Metastachydium]

Edit: And as for why I said allegedly, it's because after being questioned I did a cursory look in the lexicon and didn't find it, so I wanted to hedge my bets.

(I'm fairly convinced that a language like the hypothetical Tenebric would have at least four ways to mark that uncertainty on the predicate itself, so that's kind of all too appropriate.)

But you propably have experiences with "hedging"

Heh. You bet!

Incidentally, you may like what the fanmade conversion of Planescape to 3.5 on planewalker.com did: it stated that the Archons, Guardinals and Eladrin all used to have languages on their own, but over millenia of cooperation these fused into Celestial. Archon, Elysian and Eladrin are still spoken by some beings, but are generally not used anymore.
(planewalker also invented Fiendish as a failed experiment of a lingua franca of the fiendish races.)

Yeah, that's somewhat better. (And the idea that the Devils or the Yugoloths would try to create a Fiendish lingua franca for all fiends, leading to the greatest epic fail in the history of language planning makes nine kinds of sense.)

On the other hand, the Abyss is mostly inhabited by a single group of beings, even if it is as diverse as demons. Shadow lacks such a group.
On the athach's third hand, according to the Spelljammer setting Common is spoken on pretty much any world, even those that never were touched by human hands, so that is not exactly a counter argument.

Plus, the demons are more like three groups (obyrith, tanar'ri, loumara) at the least that hate each other. And the tanar'ri also kind of hate each other. And then we didn't even touch upon all the other weird folks living in the Abyss. I think it won't surprise you much that I'm very fond of the Abrians.

[Xihirli]

Whoaaaa heck these are still going? I've been reading a bunch of your archive for like... over a year now, didn't know you were still around the forum and doing this.
I'm using your So You Want to Kill and Orc to run my players through a campaign set in the beginning of the Netherese war on the Orcs of Anauroch.

Anything I should know about the way Netheril generally handles war? Or is that not really elaborated on?

[Tzardok]

Yeah, that's somewhat better. (And the idea that the Devils or the Yugoloths would try to create a Fiendish lingua franca for all fiends, leading to the greatest epic fail in the history of language planning makes nine kinds of sense.)

It was propably an attempt of the devils. Not only are the Lawful guys more likely to try the whole cooperation thing, Fiendish is also described as very simplified Infernal with some borrowed grammar and vocabulary from Abyssal and Yugoloth.
Incidentally, my headcanon is that Archon, Modron and Infernal have a common ancestor that also isn't in use anymore. So if Law ever needed to do large scale cooperation they would have a common language available. In that way, the linguae francae of the alignments reflect them pretty much: Law started singularily and diversified over time in the face of reality's complexity, for Good different perspectives came together for the sake of cooperation, Evil tried the same, but failed because of its flaws, and Chaos never tried to unify and doesn't want to anyway.

Plus, the demons are more like three groups (obyrith, tanar'ri, loumara) at the least that hate each other. And the tanar'ri also kind of hate each other. And then we didn't even touch upon all the other weird folks living in the Abyss. I think it won't surprise you much that I'm very fond of the Abrians.

One needs to keep in mind that the tana'ri used to be a servant race of the obyrith back during the one time the Abyss was unified, so them speaking the same language makes sense. And after they took over, they certainly didn't go "Now that we freed ourselves from the oppressors' yoke, let's make our own language", but more "This language is mine now by right of conquest, muahaha!" And the loumara, the abrians and all that other stuff are propably more like the new kids on the block who better get on with the program or get eaten.
By the way, I imagine that Abyssal doesn't change a lot over time, because of all those ancient demon lords: "This is the way I talk. If you don't understand what I'm saying, I'll wreck your face. If I can't understand what you are saying, I'll wreck your face." Language evolution and standards by violence. Fits.

[afroakuma]

After re-reading Fortune & Winds, I've come to the conclusion that all of those are good fits except maybe for Sakkaku. I feel that it fits better as a region of the Plane of Faerie, on account of its association with humour and whimsy, its very fey and trickster- like inhabitants, the inability of other planes to shut it out and its aberrant cosmological place (it's the only plane in the cosmology that never receives the souls of the dead, nor does it house any deities). Not to mention that it has an actual landscape resembling the Material (even if it has no buildings or plants, the ground looks like it's polished and the sky is eternal dusk). I am undecided because it's metaphysics do have a certain amount of "lolrandom" in them, and it lacks Faerie's flowing time trait.

I think Sakkaku is too malicious and lolrandom to be Faerie. Fey have rules, even the most chaotic of them, it's just that they are rules which are rarely fair or easily understood. It's part of what makes fey so dangerous and unpredictable - because there is an internal consistency to their actions that outsiders cannot easily read. The inhabitants of Sakkaku have no rules of any kind. It's arguably a region of Limbo where the collective will of the inhabitants is to disempower anyone from applying their will to reshape the realm, because the exercise of will or belief in control and order is to be denied and viciously mocked. The fact that the orochi hailed from there is another point in favor of Limbo over Faerie.

Other questions: I've been thinking about a common language of Shadow (let's call it Tenebric). Would introducing such a language be appropriate, or is there something to Shadow's metaphysics or themes that justifies canon's lack of such a language?

The peoples of Shadow are insular, often xenophobic, highly scattered, and mysterious by nature. None of them would want to be understood by the rest in a common language.

Do we know anything about Merrshaulk's origin (that isn't Serpent Kingdom's retcon)?

Merrshaulk is an elder god, an old and vile thing, and was at one time a little-known reptilian power who slowly developed a cult among humans. This cult called forth a foul "blessing" from their evil divinity and were "gifted" offspring that were part serpent, the first yuan-ti.

The Abyss, a supremely Chaotic and diffuse place of more infinite than thou proportions likewise gets away with having a single language, Abyssal.

Abyssal exists and functions because it is the will of demons that they be understood by others when they speak. It's sort of the hammer-to-the-face of languages.

Whoaaaa heck these are still going? I've been reading a bunch of your archive for like... over a year now, didn't know you were still around the forum and doing this.

Oh they can't get rid of me.

I'm using your So You Want to Kill and Orc to run my players through a campaign set in the beginning of the Netherese war on the Orcs of Anauroch.

Well that's fun to hear. Let me know if there's anything missing from it that you would like to have added, I know I left those things unfinished. It's my ENFP brain.

Anything I should know about the way Netheril generally handles war? Or is that not really elaborated on?

Depends on which era; in the late age of Netheril, they had flying cities and so much magic that war with anyone other than other archmagi ceased being a serious concern (or did it??? said the phaerimm...) and so they wouldn't have needed to bother. In the time of Ioulaum, war was waged against the orcs using a network of gates to rapidly mobilize an army over 50,000 strong, of whom 32,000 would end up very very dead - in exchange for 140,000 orc lives. This campaign was called the "Excursion into Extinction" as Ioulaum's goal was to totally extirpate the orcs from the land.

[Tzardok]

The fact that the orochi hailed from there is another point in favor of Limbo over Faerie.

I'm afraid I don't get that point. Unless you are alluding to Susano-o's divine realm also being in Limbo?

The peoples of Shadow are insular, often xenophobic, highly scattered, and mysterious by nature. None of them would want to be understood by the rest in a common language.

In that case I would expect most of them to have languages on their own, but most that I remember use instead languages shared with beings from other planes. Khayal speak elemental and Outer Planes languages, shadar-kai speak Sylvan, and so on.

[afroakuma]

I'm afraid I don't get that point. Unless you are alluding to Susano-o's divine realm also being in Limbo?

I'm alluding to fey don't want to leave Faerie with the intent of never returning.

In that case I would expect most of them to have languages on their own, but most that I remember use instead languages shared with beings from other planes. Khayal speak elemental and Outer Planes languages, shadar-kai speak Sylvan, and so on.

They likely do, but they also retain languages for the peoples they want to talk to - the khayal remember how to deal with other genies, and so on. They don't look to teach anyone their own language.

[Xihirli]

Well that's fun to hear. Let me know if there's anything missing from it that you would like to have added, I know I left those things unfinished. It's my ENFP brain.

Depends on which era; in the late age of Netheril, they had flying cities and so much magic that war with anyone other than other archmagi ceased being a serious concern (or did it??? said the phaerimm...) and so they wouldn't have needed to bother. In the time of Ioulaum, war was waged against the orcs using a network of gates to rapidly mobilize an army over 50,000 strong, of whom 32,000 would end up very very dead - in exchange for 140,000 orc lives. This campaign was called the "Excursion into Extinction" as Ioulaum's goal was to totally extirpate the orcs from the land.

Glad you're happy. I've gotten enough to construct a clan of orcs that specifically venerate Vasthu and have a lot of pride in him being one of their founders.
I'm thinking of that first try by Ioulaum, and just because why would I include Netheril otherwise I will do whatever timey-wimey stuff I have to to make it so that there's at least ONE mythal.
I guess my questions would be about the army of 50,000. Would they all have some proficiency in arcane magic? Would they all even be Neth (the ethnicity)? Netheril was, after all, an Empire, and that suggests the subsuming of other culture(s). I always figured at least Low Netheril would be made up of many ethnicities and cultures, so long as they're all HUMAN.
Anauroch was a desert at this point in history, right? That didn't happen AFTER Netheril pulled a Netheril on it?

[Bohandas]

Incidentally, you may like what the fanmade conversion of Planescape to 3.5 on planewalker.com did: it stated that the Archons, Guardinals and Eladrin all used to have languages on their own, but over millenia of cooperation these fused into Celestial. Archon, Elysian and Eladrin are still spoken by some beings, but are generally not used anymore.
(planewalker also invented Fiendish as a failed experiment of a lingua franca of the fiendish races.)

Is that in their 9 chapter pdf series? and if so, which chapter?

[Tzardok]

Chapter 2 has the section on languages, I think. I'm not sure; it has been ages since I read it.

[afroakuma]

I'm thinking of that first try by Ioulaum, and just because why would I include Netheril otherwise I will do whatever timey-wimey stuff I have to to make it so that there's at least ONE mythal.

Actually, the campaign against the orcs happened 131 years before Ioulaum created the first mythallar.

I guess my questions would be about the army of 50,000. Would they all have some proficiency in arcane magic?

The ethnic Neth were all introduced to basic magical education at the age of 13, though not all would go on to seriously study it. In effect, I would say treat all noncasters as though they possessed the Magical Training^FRCS feat.

Would they all even be Neth (the ethnicity)? Netheril was, after all, an Empire, and that suggests the subsuming of other culture(s). I always figured at least Low Netheril would be made up of many ethnicities and cultures, so long as they're all HUMAN.

At that time, Netheril was more imperial in the sense that the original seven villages had united as one collective and enforced claims on their territory. They hadn't conquered any other peoples, and their limited contact with the Earlanni and Illefarni elves as well as the Delzoun dwarves was chiefly trade-based. The only other civilization they had encountered by that point would have been the Rengarth, a barbarian nation of humans that was wiped out by an orc horde.

Anauroch was a desert at this point in history, right? That didn't happen AFTER Netheril pulled a Netheril on it?

The Netheril region was plains, hills, rivers, forests, pretty lush and verdant. The erosion of the ecosystem wasn't caused by Netheril (though they didn't help) but rather by the lifedrain magic of the subterranean phaerimm, which would take place a few thousand years after the time you're in.

[Xihirli]

Thank you Akuma!

[Batcathat]

Thank you Akuma!

Huh. This is literally the first time I've realized that it's Afroakuma and not Afrokuma. My worldview (or at least my confidence in my eye for detail) is shaken.

(Well, technically I suppose it's afroakuma, I do get a vaguely annoyed about people randomly capitalizing my name, so I really shouldn't do it to other people).

[Tzardok]

If I had a nickel for every time someone suddenly realized in this thread that it's akuma, not kuma, I would have two nickels. That's not a lot, but it's weird that it happened twice.

[SirKazum]

I would've thought the avatar showing Akuma from the Street Fighter franchise sporting an afro would dispel any misconceptions about the name, but apparently no, it seems...