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2020-12-01, 02:50 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VIII
What is the primary source for (seen quite a few times in these threads) piece of lore, namely: the "Guardian of the Dead Gods" is not a god anymore (but still can kick anyone's ass seven ways to Sunday) and doesn't like to be referred as "Anubis" anymore
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2020-12-01, 04:14 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VIII
Was the dwarven deity Clangeddin Silverbeard always specific to the Forgotten Realms? I seem to remember back in 1E days he was either setting neutral, or possibly from the Greyhawk dwarven pantheon?
Or am I misremembering?My winning competition entries: Kinvig Arrumskor | The Great Pumpkinhead | Wynfrith d'Acker
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2020-12-01, 05:11 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VIII
Everything I found in my search tells me that the Dwaven Pantheon is identical on all worlds it gets worshipped on and (except for when Races of Stone replaced them with suspiciously similiar substitutes) didn't change much, if at all, over the editions. That includes Clangeddin.
Last edited by Tzardok; 2020-12-01 at 05:48 PM.
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2020-12-01, 05:58 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VIII
You are not misremembering.
The first reference to Clangeddin is in the AD&D D&DG. He does not have a write up, but is merely mentioned as part of the dwarven pantheon in the description of Moradin.
A note in Dragon #64, which introduced Raxivort, said that the non-human deities from D&DG were suitable for use in Greyhawk, with some notes shifting home planes of the humanoid deities about.
The first write up of Clangeddin is in Dragon #58, part of a series on the non-human races available for player characters, which included an expanded pantheon.
That deities from that series were reprinted in Unearthed Arcana (AD&D 1st version).
They were included in DMRG4 Monster Mythology.
The Greyhawk setting boxed set From the Ashes included a note that the demihuman pantheons from Monster Mythology were found in Greyhawk.Last edited by Tiktakkat; 2020-12-01 at 05:58 PM.
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2020-12-01, 06:04 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VIII
My winning competition entries: Kinvig Arrumskor | The Great Pumpkinhead | Wynfrith d'Acker
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2020-12-01, 06:44 PM (ISO 8601)
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2020-12-01, 09:05 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VIII
"If you want to understand biology don't think about vibrant throbbing gels and oozes, think about information technology" -Richard Dawkins
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2020-12-01, 09:14 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VIII
Last edited by Bohandas; 2020-12-01 at 09:15 PM.
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2020-12-02, 05:33 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VIII
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2020-12-05, 05:50 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VIII
In our most recent session my character became infatuated with a sorceress who turned out to be a Green Slaad that was presumably impersonating the spell caster it was created from. The Slaad was eventually revealed and had a distinctly different personality from the sorceress and my character now wants to find a way to save this sorceress.
How extra dead is she? The DM is obviously the final arbiter, but what might be involved in restoring her? True Resurrection is a boring obvious answer. We're level eight and have several powerful contacts who could launch us into Planes hopping. This Green Slaad was created by a Blue so that means no original body, right?
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2020-12-05, 06:25 PM (ISO 8601)
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2020-12-05, 06:44 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VIII
Why aren't there any good and evil elemental deities but there are good and evil elemental lords?
Last edited by Bartmanhomer; 2020-12-05 at 06:45 PM.
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2020-12-06, 04:26 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VIII
"If you want to understand biology don't think about vibrant throbbing gels and oozes, think about information technology" -Richard Dawkins
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2020-12-06, 08:54 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VIII
If you use Wish or Miracle, is killing the Slaad even necessary?
Logically one would assume that the gods/lords/whatever of the elements are neutral, as the elements themselves are unaligned. I remember two explanations for why there are princes of elemental good and of elemental evil, but I don't remember which one, if any, is canonical:
The first is that the originally neutral elemental lords where corrupted by the Elder Elemental Eye (one of Tharizdun's disguises), whereupon the Elemental Planes spawned the princes of elemental good as a counter balance.
The second connects the schism to the War of Law and Chaos, where some elemental lords fought on the side of Law and others on the side of Chaos and changed their alignments based on their and their allies' methods.
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2020-12-08, 03:05 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VIII
If half-fiends have a chariama bonus why do tieflings have a charisma penalty?
"If you want to understand biology don't think about vibrant throbbing gels and oozes, think about information technology" -Richard Dawkins
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2020-12-08, 03:55 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VIII
My winning competition entries: Kinvig Arrumskor | The Great Pumpkinhead | Wynfrith d'Acker
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2020-12-09, 05:10 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VIII
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2020-12-09, 02:01 PM (ISO 8601)
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2020-12-09, 02:40 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VIII
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2020-12-09, 04:09 PM (ISO 8601)
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2020-12-10, 10:28 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VIII
Is there any reason why becoming a templated undead is not people's preferred afterlife? Because the reasons that would apply in most fantasy or horror settings are reversed in D&D; the undead (or at least templated undead) retain their faculties and their identities, whereas souls that have moved on to the next world wander their afterlife in a semi-conscious fugue state.
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2020-12-10, 10:46 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VIII
- Petitioners aren't "semi-concious", they just lose (most of) their memories;
- Undead souls are often static, unable to change. while petitioners can grow closer to their god/the concepts underlying their plane until they fuse with them or evolve into something more, an archon for example;
- Undead are unnatural and bring more negative energy (and with it decay and destruction) to the world, need to feed on the living, are mentally parodies of their original personality or a combination of those three points;
- Most people don't know about all those things and so believe that they go to paradise with their everything intact, while undead are scary and ugly.
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2020-12-10, 03:25 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VIII
Becoming a templated undead isn't an option that most people can just decide to take. Most forms of undeadification require strong personal magical capabilities (lich, dry lich, worm that walks), the sponsorship of particular gods (death knight, mummy/mummified creature, gravetouched ghoul), the assistance/intervention of other people/creatures/items (necropolitan, vampire, scion of Kyuss), unpredictable or otherwise un-guarantee-able circumstances (bodak, ghost, swordwraith), and so forth. If Joe Commoner decides that all the afterlives suck and he'd rather be an undead, there's not much he can do to bring that about without spending a lot of time and effort on that, whereas getting into the afterlife of one's choice just requires one to faithfully follow a deity.
Even evil creatures who have no compunctions whatsoever about doing the morally-questionable things that might cause them to spontaneously rise as various kinds of undead and/or would be happy serving an evil god in hopes of earning undeath as a reward would often be better served visiting the temple of Bane once a week and donating to its Conquering Widows and Orphans fund to secure a place in Acheron as a more-or-less-humanoid-like petitioner than trying to pursue esoteric forms of undeath, simply because becoming undead under those circumstances is nowhere near guaranteed whereas becoming a petitioner basically is guaranteed if you're faithful.
And that's before you get to all the practical and social limitations of undeath: undead creatures aren't welcome in most civilized regions because all the Lich Queens and Dread Emperors in a given world's history frittered away any goodwill a non-evil sapient undead might have had, someone who's undead can't really enjoy the pleasures of the flesh the way petitioner in Kord's realm can with their endless feasting or a petitioner in Sune's realm can with their endless...scintillating conversation, and so on. Compared to that, most people hoping to be faithful enough that their patron deity restores their memory core to them in the afterlife to enjoy eternal luxury as themselves looks like a better option most of the time.
Neither of those points is really supported in the lore. Regarding the former, a sapient undead can grow, learn, and change just as much in undeath as it could in life--and in fact that's kinda the whole point of the various varieties of lich, with "keep learning spells and hoarding magic items until I possess Phenomenal Cosmic Arcane Power!" being a major motivation for most of them--while many mortals don't particularly care about "becoming something more" in the abstract and can hang around for quite a while in the afterlife before merging with their plane or ascending into some other kind of outsider.
Regarding the latter,undead creaturesthe positive energy-challenged are just as natural as any other form of life, since negative energy is just as much an integral building block of the cosmos as is the positive energy that powers most mortal creatures or the elemental energy that makes up elemental creatures and powers many constructs. Animating a new negative-energy-powered skeleton doesn't noticeably increase the amount of free negative energy on the Material Plane and bring decay everywhere it goes any more than a new positive-energy-powered humanoid being born noticeably increases the amount of free positive energy on the Material Plane and brings growth everywhere it goes. Sure, ghouls need to eat flesh and vampires need to drink blood, but the only difference between a ghoul chowing down on an elf and a lion chowing down on a gazelle is that the elf is sapient and can complain about it, and while that may make the ghoul evil it doesn't make it "unnatural."
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2020-12-10, 03:37 PM (ISO 8601)
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2020-12-10, 06:02 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VIII
I used to wrong word; not static, stagnant. I am quite sure that Afro mentioned in one of the earlier threads that sapient undead have a noted tendency to not change much, to be set in their ways. He also mentioned that undead worship is less nourishing for deities and gave the stagnancy of their souls as a reason.
Regarding petitioners, all of them feel the drive to come closer to their planes/powers and fuse with them, but not all of them are in a hurry. They've got eternity.
Regarding the latter,undead creaturesthe positive energy-challenged are just as natural as any other form of life, since negative energy is just as much an integral building block of the cosmos as is the positive energy that powers most mortal creatures or the elemental energy that makes up elemental creatures and powers many constructs. Animating a new negative-energy-powered skeleton doesn't noticeably increase the amount of free negative energy on the Material Plane and bring decay everywhere it goes any more than a new positive-energy-powered humanoid being born noticeably increases the amount of free positive energy on the Material Plane and brings growth everywhere it goes. Sure, ghouls need to eat flesh and vampires need to drink blood, but the only difference between a ghoul chowing down on an elf and a lion chowing down on a gazelle is that the elf is sapient and can complain about it, and while that may make the ghoul evil it doesn't make it "unnatural."
You remember the War of Law and Chaos, do you? Well, the story I heard went that during the War the elemental leaders chose sides. Most elementals sided with Law, but some went to Chaos.
So, for example, Zaaman Rul sided with Chaos. He fought side-by-side with the early Eladrin and learnt Good from them. Imix, on the other hand, chose Law. His allies were Asmodeus and his ilk, and he learnt Evil.
Just an example. No idea wether it's true.Last edited by Tzardok; 2020-12-10 at 06:29 PM.
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2020-12-10, 06:10 PM (ISO 8601)
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2020-12-10, 06:34 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VIII
No, that is not what I said at all.
To give another (most likely inacurate) example:
Yan-C-Bin sided with Chaos. He slaughtered side-by-side with demons and learned Evil. Chan took the banner with the archons or their precedessors and learned Good.
Do you now understand what I meant with "changed their alignments based on their and their allies' methods"?
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2020-12-10, 06:38 PM (ISO 8601)
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2020-12-10, 06:58 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VIII
Not everybody involved in the War of Law and Chaos was pure Law or Chaos; their were still Lawful Good, Chaotic Good, Lawful Evil, Chaotic Evil factions, they just prioritized the Law/Chaos split in choosing sides at that time over the Good/Evil. Elementals that had previously been largely Neutral would be influenced depending on who they allied with - if you wound up fighting under Asmodeus and other fiends, you would learn the Evil perspective on Law and be influenced toward becoming Lawful Evil, or if you were more attracted to Chaos you might end up going marauding with demons and learning how to do Evil Chaotically. Same on the Good flip side: elementals who fought with angels would be drawn toward Good as well as law, while those who skirmished alongside free bands of Eladrins would tend to develop a Chaotic Good viewpoint to match their battle-brothers.
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2020-12-10, 07:03 PM (ISO 8601)
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