The Arcanist base class

[LibraryOgre]

At this point, this is mostly a notebook, but I slept like hell last night, and whenever I woke up, I played with ideas for a base class.

The basic idea of the Arcanist is that they rely entirely on Cantrips and Ritual magic, but they have a huge selection of each... any cantrip, and ritual magic from any spell list, along with some basic alchemy/herbalism (which I posted and none of you commented on. I am deeply hurt. You are all banned. VALIDATE ME AND MY BRILLIANCE!).

Three subclasses would be the
a) Alchemist, who would expand on the alchemy, being able to construct new and higher level potions and oils
b) Ritualist, who would greatly expand ritual magic; able to learn a variety of non-ritual spells and perform them as rituals. Huge breadth of ability, lots of time investment
c) Geometer, who could scribe scrolls.

Ok, I got some work to do, but, hopefully, getting this much out will let me sleep at night.

[Old Harry MTX]

Several weeks ago someone posted something about a class that relies only on cantrips, and I found the idea very interesting, so a class based on all cantrips and ritual spells seems pretty good.

I would only prefer it without too many frills, and therefore I would develop it as a subclass of something, for example the wizard or even better the sorcerer, that let you choose the subclass at 1st.

[LibraryOgre]

Several weeks ago someone posted something about a class that relies only on cantrips, and I found the idea very interesting, so a class based on all cantrips and ritual spells seems pretty good.

I would only prefer it without too many frills, and therefore I would develop it as a subclass of something, for example the wizard or even better the sorcerer, that let you choose the subclass at 1st.

I have two reasons I leaned towards a base class option.

1) No spell slots. Taking away all a wizard's spell slots is a big thing, IMO, and I want to avoid that.
2) Huge spell list. Ideally, this character will be able to learn any spell with the ritual tag, plus cantrips from several classes, plus a few spells that they will turn into rituals. Thus, hanging them on a particular character class to start requires breaking out of that; easier to start from scratch.

[Grod_The_Giant]

We appear to be thinking on very similar lines of late--we both published alchemy stuff at the same time, and I very recently built a ritual-magic-oriented 5e base class. It ignores cantrips entirely, but it might be a helpful starting point? I also have a rituals-and-at-will-effects class for 3.5 that might be an even better starting point-- replace reserve feats with cantrips and the basic structure translates pretty cleanly.

[Old Harry MTX]

I have two reasons I leaned towards a base class option.

1) No spell slots. Taking away all a wizard's spell slots is a big thing, IMO, and I want to avoid that.
2) Huge spell list. Ideally, this character will be able to learn any spell with the ritual tag, plus cantrips from several classes, plus a few spells that they will turn into rituals. Thus, hanging them on a particular character class to start requires breaking out of that; easier to start from scratch.

Yes I understand it, but personally I just do not like to create a base class AND a whole set of subclasses. Maybe I would opt for a variant of the wizard, removing the spellslots and replacing the features to recover them with something else, but keeping the various schools...

EDIT: ... or maybe, a variant of the bard?

[LibraryOgre]

I actually played with having no subclasses, just various things you chose to improve as you went along. I will see.

[clash]

I actually played with having no subclasses, just various things you chose to improve as you went along. I will see.

I think you are taking the right approach on base class with subclasses. I would never create a subclass that removes aspects of a class. You could create one that rewards a certain aspects over others but dont remove the base class in the subclass. I think there is a lot of seisgn space for an at will magic user so I am 100% behind fleshing out the whole thing.

[jjordan]

Like it.

I suggest making sure the Alchemist has a range of non-magical concoctions and abilities (refining metals, etc...) as well as magical preparations. Tying in to alchemy you posted earlier I suggest that they are also able to prepare a liquid matrix that other casters can put magic into.

I suggest looking at meta-magic for the Ritualist. Letting them expand their range of spells by modifying existing spells or chaining spells together seems cool and logical. I would also look at letting them cast spells in groups, possibly allowing them to cast spells beyond their usual capability (higher level spells) by working in groups.

I think the Geometer should be more of a sigilist, expanding on the existing glyph of warding (spell glyph) and having a wide variety of sigils that can be modified and combined. Maybe a version of this person who is a tattoo artist?

[Old Harry MTX]

So i got inspired and i sketched this out. Probably it is lightyears away from what you are trying to create, but I hope you appreciate the effort. ^^
As i said, i opted for a variant of the bard, removing the spell slots, using a linear progression of cantrips known, and filling the 7th and 11th levels with some new features. It's only a draft, but I hope it's not too much unbalanced.

The features in red are those modified/added, while the -OR- indicates two possible solutions.

Spoiler: Bard's "All Cantrips and Rituals" variant

Show

Level	Proficiency Bonus	Features	Cantrips Known	Ritual Level
1st	2	Spellcasting, Bardic Inspiration (d6)	6	1
2nd	2	Jack of All Trades, Song of Rest (d6)	7	1
3rd	2	Bard College, Expertise	8	2
4th	2	Ability Score Improvement	9	2
5th	3	Bardic Inspiration (d8), Font of Inspiration	10	3
6th	3	Countercharm, Bard College feature	11	3
7th	3	Cantrip Mastery	12	4
8th	3	Ability Score Improvement	13	4
9th	4	Song of Rest (d8)	14	5
10th	4	Bardic Inspiration (d10), Expertise, Magical Secrets	15	5
11th	4	Inspired Casting -OR- Magistral Performance	16	6
12th	4	Ability Score Improvement	17	6
13th	5	Song of Rest (d10)	18	7
14th	5	Magical Secrets, Bard College feature	19	7
15th	5	Bardic Inspiration (d12)	20	8
16th	5	Ability Score Improvement	21	8
17th	6	Song of Rest (d12)	22	9
18th	6	Magical Secrets	23	9
19th	6	Ability Score Improvement	24	9
20th	6	Superior Inspiration	25	9

Spellcasting:

Cantrips. You know six Cantrips of your choice from ANY spell list. You learn additional Cantrips of your choice at higher levels, as shown in the Bard's table.

Spellcasting Ability. Charisma is your Spellcasting Ability...

Ritual Casting. You can cast ANY spell as a ritual if that spell has the ritual tag. The spell must be of a level you can cast, as shown on the Bard's table.

Spellcasting Focus. You can use a musical instrument...

Cantrip Mastery:

At 7th level, when you use your action to cast a cantrip, you can choose a second cantrip different from the first and cast it at a level equal to your Bard's level minus 6.

Magical Secrets:

By 10th level, you have plundered magical knowledge from a wide spectrum of disciplines. Choose two Spells...
...that don't have the ritual tag from any class. A spell you choose must be of a level you can cast, as shown on the Bard's table.
-OR-
...of 5th level or lower without the ritual tag from any class.

From now on the chosen Spells count as a spell with the ritual tag for you.

You can choose two additional Spells from any class at 14th level and again at 18th level.

Inspired Casting:

When you reach 11th level you acquire the ability to perform masterfully. Using a Bardic Inspiration while casting a cantrip you can get one of the following effects:

• Roll an Ispiration die and add the number rolled to one spell attack roll or damage roll of the cantrip.
• Give to one target of the cantrip disadvantage on its first saving throw made against the spell.
• Get advantage on all the constitution saving throws made to maintain concentration on the cantrip until the beginning of your next turn.

You can use this feature once per turn.

-OR-

Magistral Performance:

When you reach 11th level you acquire the ability to perform masterfully. From now on you can cast rituals as if you were using a spell slot of higher level, equal to the maximum level you can cast, as shown on the Bard's table.

What do you think? ^^

[LibraryOgre]

So i got inspired and i sketched this out. Probably it is lightyears away from what you are trying to create, but I hope you appreciate the effort. ^^


What do you think? ^^

Not bad. I think you went a bit harder on the cantrips known than I would... 25 is a LOT... and I'm not as sure about continuing to include the musical abilities of the bard, but it's definitely a workable version of the concept.

ETA: Thinking about Cantrip Mastery, I'm wondering if that couldn't get out of hand. Cantrips tend to auto-scale in damage, so it would seem that, about the time your 2nd cantrip picks up its 2nd die, you're going to be making the damage equivalent of several attacks with cantrips... Eldritch Blast THEN Acid Bolt, or what have you, which might get a little much.

[Old Harry MTX]

Not bad. I think you went a bit harder on the cantrips known than I would... 25 is a LOT... and I'm not as sure about continuing to include the musical abilities of the bard, but it's definitely a workable version of the concept.

ETA: Thinking about Cantrip Mastery, I'm wondering if that couldn't get out of hand. Cantrips tend to auto-scale in damage, so it would seem that, about the time your 2nd cantrip picks up its 2nd die, you're going to be making the damage equivalent of several attacks with cantrips... Eldritch Blast THEN Acid Bolt, or what have you, which might get a little much.

Yes, that's what I fear. For example, throwing Eldritch Blast and Firebolt at level 7 inflicts 2+1 d10 (average 16.5), at level 11 you inflict 3+2 d10 (average 27.5), at level 17 you inflict 4+3 d10 (average 38.5). Maybe it's to much?

Moving Cantrip Mastery at level 11 the damage drops a bit, but I'm afraid it could be too much weak at lower levels...

A solution could be counting the levels of the second cantrip with a specific progression, like 2 levels every 3 levels, but it is a bit complicated.

Finally, I could just add a limited number of uses of the feature.

For sure, the best choice for the feature at level 11 is Magistral Performance.

[LibraryOgre]

Yes, that's what I fear. For example, throwing Eldritch Blast and Firebolt at level 7 inflicts 2+1 d10 (average 16.5), at level 11 you inflict 3+2 d10 (average 27.5), at level 17 you inflict 4+3 d10 (average 38.5). Maybe it's to much?

Moving Cantrip Mastery at level 11 the damage drops a bit, but I'm afraid it could be too much weak at lower levels...

A solution could be counting the levels of the second cantrip with a specific progression, like 2 levels every 3 levels, but it is a bit complicated.

Finally, I could just add a limited number of uses of the feature.

For sure, the best choice for the feature at level 11 is Magistral Performance.

Limited uses might be best, like letting the spend a Bardic Inspiration die on it (so they're burning resources that could be used for other things to do this One Neat Trick). In that case, I might remove the level penalty... being able to fling two cantrips at a time isn't THAT neat of a trick, if its eating your other neat tricks.

[Old Harry MTX]

Limited uses might be best, like letting the spend a Bardic Inspiration die on it (so they're burning resources that could be used for other things to do this One Neat Trick). In that case, I might remove the level penalty... being able to fling two cantrips at a time isn't THAT neat of a trick, if its eating your other neat tricks.

And if I remove Inspired Casting i add only a feature that consumes Bardic Inspiration... It should work, but I have to say that I like the level penalty mechanic ^^

Anyway, I don't won't to bother your topic anymore, let's return to your class!

[LibraryOgre]

And if I remove Inspired Casting i add only a feature that consumes Bardic Inspiration... It should work, but I have to say that I like the level penalty mechanic ^^

Anyway, I don't won't to bother your topic anymore, let's return to your class!

Pfft. My class was an idea that I might have worked to turn into a class. Yours is real, at this point. Does more or less what I want. I might want to tweak some of the bard aspects, but I think it works very well at making a ritual-focused caster.

[Old Harry MTX]

Pfft. My class was an idea that I might have worked to turn into a class. Yours is real, at this point. Does more or less what I want. I might want to tweak some of the bard aspects, but I think it works very well at making a ritual-focused caster.

Feel free to make it yours then! ^^

[Old Harry MTX]

Hi Mark, this weekend i had some spare time and i searched for some DPR chart and made some math on my own, trying to figure out if Cantrip Mastery is balanced or not. The closest example is to consider a level 17 walrock with Agonizing Blast, which is capable of dealing 4d10 (average 22) + 4x5 (20) = 44 damage with an Eldritch Blast. But also the other classes at that level have the DPR ranging from 30 (base) to 45 (minmaxed), perfectly in line with Cantrip Mastery.

So I would change it just adding the use of a bonus action to cast the second cantrip, preventing, for example, the assignment of Bardic Inspirations, the cast of a third cantrip that normally requires only a bonus action, or the use of other features, like Battle Magic (College of Valor).

Something like this:

Cantrip Mastery:

At 7th level, when you use your action to cast a cantrip, you can choose a second cantrip different from the first and cast it as a bonus action at a level equal to your Bard's level minus 6.

[LibraryOgre]

Hi Mark, this weekend i had some spare time and i searched for some DPR chart and made some math on my own, trying to figure out if Cantrip Mastery is balanced or not. The closest example is to consider a level 17 walrock with Agonizing Blast, which is capable of dealing 4d10 (average 22) + 4x5 (20) = 44 damage with an Eldritch Blast. But also the other classes at that level have the DPR ranging from 30 (base) to 45 (minmaxed), perfectly in line with Cantrip Mastery.

So I would change it just adding the use of a bonus action to cast the second cantrip, preventing, for example, the assignment of Bardic Inspirations, the cast of a third cantrip that normally requires only a bonus action, or the use of other features, like Battle Magic (College of Valor).

Something like this:

Cantrip Mastery:

At 7th level, when you use your action to cast a cantrip, you can choose a second cantrip different from the first and cast it as a bonus action at a level equal to your Bard's level minus 6.

I like it. TBH, I might not even require the level penalty.

[Old Harry MTX]

I like it. TBH, I might not even require the level penalty.

Probably yes. Or maybe, if you feel that there's enough room for something else (but i don't think so...), you can try to put something like that at a higher level:

Inspiring Casting:

Beginning at XXth level, your arcane art is inspirational for others. You can now use your Cantrip Mastery and Bardic Ispiration features togheter, spending a single bonus action.

This way you don't increase damage output but keep the support side of the class. I personally like it but I don't know if this clashes with your intention to tweak its bardic side.