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2020-07-24, 11:45 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2007
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- Bellona
Optimization Showcase in the Playground: Army of Darkness
INTRODUCTION
With more than a decade and a half of toying around with 3.5, I’ve accumulated a lot of spare builds and ideas. While I don’t have an active game going right now, I still like to pop open my builds folder and try to refine things. Recently I decided to make a dedicated effort to flesh out some of these builds into full write-ups, and reached out to some friends in the CO community who might be interested in doing the same. In the spirit of Tempest Stormwind’s Weekly Optimization Showcase (imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, right?), I thought I’d showcase the end results here.
The goal is (usually) not to show off any fancy new TO trick, but to showcase effective, playable builds and spur discussion. While each of us has a different build philosophy, in general the intent is to create something that can be played in most groups from level 1 to level 20. Again, the goal is discussion, so feel free to discuss the build, talk about other options, make suggestions or tear it all to shreds. Also, feel free to use anything showcased here in any of your campaigns—and let us know how they work out if you do!
Right now the group consists of myself, the Viscount, Akal Saris, Venger, WhamBamSam, Darrin and daremetoidareyou. Typically one of us writes up the build concept and possibly a stub, the others share feedback on Discord, and together we refine things until we’re happy with the final product.
For this showcase, we’ll be looking at a really ghoulish build: Army of Darkness!
Army of Darkness
This is what happens when the deadites get the boomstick...
BACKGROUND
We’ve had a wide variety of builds in these showcases, but one classic archetype we haven’t really touched is the necromancer. Sure, Cold World probably qualifies as a necromancer, but there’s nothing quite as satisfying as a good old-fashioned shambling army of zombies.
There are a lot of different ways to build a necromancer, but this was a great way to showcase one of my personal favorite classes: horned harbinger. Buried in the decidedly odd FR book Faiths & Pantheons, horned harbinger is a horned devotee of Myrkul, Lord of Bones, the angry necromancer who ascended to godhood before getting ignobly trapped in a hat. The class itself gets a few really interesting abilities, including several animate dead SLAs that can be used at range and the absolutely fantastic general of undeath capstone, which increases the total HD of undead you can control from an animate dead spell to a whopping ten times your caster level. And while the class does not progress casting, it provides a surprisingly high CL for animation spells and SLAs, and even stacks with any other class that can do so.
So, with horned harbinger to take care of the army, we started looking at the best way to really dial things up a notch with the remaining ten levels. We quickly settled on a Requiem Bardsader, using White Raven maneuvers/stances and Dragonfire Inspiration to really make that army of darkness into something worth being feared. The build came together quickly from there. I hope you enjoy.
THE BASICS
- Race: Silverbrow Human. Human for the feat, silverbrow for DFI.
- Build Stub: Divine Bard 4/Crusader 6/Horned Harbinger 10.
- Alignment: Any evil and non-lawful. You’re a crusader of the evil necromancer deity Myrkul; what did you expect?
Army of Darkness
Originally Posted by ”Army of Darkness”
Let’s see what we ended up with. You close things out with +16 BAB and 7th-level maneuvers, focusing on either charges or things that boost the party, such as leading the charge, white raven tactics, order forged from chaos and flanking maneuver. You have oodles of turn attempts and Divine Might, letting you put that excellent Charisma to good use in combat. In addition to your standard attacks, you have a set of horns as a secondary weapon or can use them in a charge for double damage, and with war leader’s charge and your stance, dishing out level-appropriate damage should be a breeze. You also have rather decent bardic music, able to add on +3d6 fire damage via dragonfire inspiration before items (and as much as +5d6 with items). This even affects the undead, thanks to Requiem…
...and speaking of undead, you’re actually one hell of a necromancer. That’s what we’re here for, right? Bardsaders are nothing new, but where you differ is that unlike the typical bardsader, you make your own friends. Assuming Charisma boosting items, you should have a CL of 25 on animate dead/create undead/create greater undead. You can use these as spell-like abilities up to 4 times per day, without dumping your whole WBL into cartloads of black onyx, and can even animate from over a hundred feet away. You get desecrate as well, just in case you wanted to boost things up a notch. And thanks to general of undeath, you can control ten times your caster level in undead this way, meaning a whopping 250 HD of shambling flesh.
That’s right: you can summon an army of deadites that would make your average dread necromancer or fell animate wizard bury their head in shame, wreath them all in dragonfire and then charge in alongside them in battle.
VARIANTS
We didn’t have a ton of variants on this one for once: this is one of the rare instances where the first draft and the final version of the build ended up remarkably similar. We talked about a version that uses a shield, with shield block and shield counter to up its defensive utility a bit, and that’s still an easy adjustment. You can also go for more divine or domain feats beyond just Divine Might; you’ll certainly have the turn attempts to power them. Basically, stick with the build’s basic structure and you can’t really go wrong with minor changes.
SOURCES
- Horned harbinger: Faiths and Pantheons
- Crusader, Song of the White Raven, Martial Study, Extra Granted Maneuver, maneuvers/stances: Tome of Battle
- Divine Might: Complete Warrior
- Divine Bard: Unearthed Arcana/SRD
- Dragonfire Inspiration, Silverbrow Human: Races of the Dragon
- Song of the Heart: Eberron Campaign Setting
- Requiem: Libris Mortis
***
And that’s that! Please let us know what you think in the comments, and what you’d like to see for future showcases!Optimization Showcase in the Playground
Former projects:
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Archer Build Compendium
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GOLD
IC LXXVI: Talos
IC LXXV: Alphonse Louise Constant
IC XLIX: Babalon, Queen of Bones
IC XLV: Dead Mists
IC XL: Lycus Blackbeak
IC XXXIX: AM-1468
IC XXXV: Parsifal the Fool
IC XXX: Jal Filius
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2020-07-24, 11:48 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2007
- Location
- Bellona
Re: Optimization Showcase in the Playground: Army of Darkness
Optimization Showcase in the Playground
Former projects:
Shadowcaster Handbook
Archer Build Compendium
Iron Chef Awards!
Spoiler
GOLD
IC LXXVI: Talos
IC LXXV: Alphonse Louise Constant
IC XLIX: Babalon, Queen of Bones
IC XLV: Dead Mists
IC XL: Lycus Blackbeak
IC XXXIX: AM-1468
IC XXXV: Parsifal the Fool
IC XXX: Jal Filius
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2020-07-25, 08:23 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2016
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2020-07-25, 08:58 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2018
Re: Optimization Showcase in the Playground: Army of Darkness
Thanks for sharing! I always look forward to these threads. They usually make excellent use of some obscure class or ability, which is a blast to see and think through. Horned Harbinger is pretty wacky.
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2020-07-25, 12:46 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2011
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- Michigan
- Gender
Re: Optimization Showcase in the Playground: Army of Darkness
I played in a long-running campaign as a DFI bard in a party with a Death Master and an evil Cleric, and you'd be surprised. Even fighting mostly humanoid nations (as we were), and the capricious whimsy of fate/the DM capriciously destroying or just making difficult to retain a precious hydra skeleton or whatever, you can generally find a way to scrounge up something that you can use.
Last edited by WhamBamSam; 2020-07-25 at 12:47 PM.
Iron Chef Medals
SpoilerSir Driscoll Conia - Silver - IC L
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Ahmtel - Silver - IC LXXVIII
Tocke of Nessus - Gold - IC LXXIX
The Blessed Third - Silver - IC LXXXI
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Sai-don, Knight of the Tide - Bronze - IC LXXXIV
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2020-07-25, 12:57 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2013
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Re: Optimization Showcase in the Playground: Army of Darkness
General of Undeath was reprinted in spell compendium with a huge nerf. You can achieve similar sized pools with a rod of undead mastery, though.
If any idiot ever tells you that life would be meaningless without death, Hyperion recommends killing them!
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2020-07-25, 01:32 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2007
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- Bellona
Re: Optimization Showcase in the Playground: Army of Darkness
Though they share a name and have similar abilities, the "general of undeath" class feature you pick up as a horned harbinger isn't a spell-like ability and doesn't actually duplicate or reference the spell at all. It's an independent supernatural ability, so the SpC update shouldn't really impact it.
Also, if you're really concerned about finding sources for corpses and don't mind dipping even further into... morally dubious arenas, fitting on the Wild Cohort feat might be worth considering. An animal companion that dies can be replaced in 24 hours with no penalties, so you could continuously summon new animal companions, slay them and raise them. It seems pretty low, even for a necromancer, but hey, desperate times call for desperate measures.Optimization Showcase in the Playground
Former projects:
Shadowcaster Handbook
Archer Build Compendium
Iron Chef Awards!
Spoiler
GOLD
IC LXXVI: Talos
IC LXXV: Alphonse Louise Constant
IC XLIX: Babalon, Queen of Bones
IC XLV: Dead Mists
IC XL: Lycus Blackbeak
IC XXXIX: AM-1468
IC XXXV: Parsifal the Fool
IC XXX: Jal Filius
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2020-07-25, 01:54 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2018
Re: Optimization Showcase in the Playground: Army of Darkness
Tbh with the sheer number you eventually raise, at a table it’s probably easier to just toss your big numbers of basic zombies at most problems rather than get creative with the undead. With the boosted damage and sheer mass of them a lot of basic threats aren’t a problem ever.
OI YOU! Join this one Discord where people talk 3.5 stuff! Also chicken infested related things! It’s pretty rad! https://discord.gg/6HmgXhUZ
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2020-07-25, 02:02 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2011
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- Texas
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Re: Optimization Showcase in the Playground: Army of Darkness
I do enjoy the idea of playing a death knight by mixing Crusader and Necromancy, and this one has some nice perks. At high levels its stronger than a gestalt build I came up with to do this very thing (abusing Share Soulmeld with a psicrystal, two familiars, and Necrocarnum Circlets).
The biggest drawback is having to reach level 8-9 for your shtick to take off, though that's unbearable given how many cool combos like this don't come online until 12+.
Very cool.
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2020-07-25, 02:43 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2009
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Re: Optimization Showcase in the Playground: Army of Darkness
Excellent work, as always. Love these showcases so much.
One thing that worries me: your effective cleric level for rebuking is just your HH level, right? Captain/General of Undeath raise the cap for HD you can hold at once but don't actually increase your ability to succeed on your rebuking checks in the first place. Do you actually have enough juice to get the beasties you make with create undead and create greater undead (which are, unlike animate dead, explicitly not under your control at time of creation)? That requires that your turning level (not turning damage, which at least scales with CHA, and not max cap of how many can be commanded at once, which is boosted by those class features) to be twice as high as the HD of the target. I don't see you having those numbers, to be honest. Can you delve into that a bit?
I remember this being a major strategy in the Guild Wars PVP metagame around, like, 2006 or so...In the Beginning Was the Word, and the Word Was Suck: A Guide to Truenamers
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2020-07-25, 06:50 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2013
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Re: Optimization Showcase in the Playground: Army of Darkness
You're right, it's a separate feature.
I have seen the animal companion thing done before to farm bears to reanimate; quite powerful, and very Evil. Conjuring up outsiders to reanimate with halasters fetch or planar binding works too, but maybe not for this build.
I don't recommend packing in a horde unless your DM lets you turn it into some kind of swarm. A handful of very powerful undead will usually perform better and be easier to run for, since high level threats in 3.5 tend to be mostly invincible against much lower level enemies.If any idiot ever tells you that life would be meaningless without death, Hyperion recommends killing them!
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2020-07-25, 07:12 PM (ISO 8601)
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2020-07-26, 06:13 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2014
Re: Optimization Showcase in the Playground: Army of Darkness
I really like this build. It combines two of my favourite concepts into one: the dread necromancer-with-Horned Harbinger-dip, and the divine bardsader-with-PrCs (always a good idea, since your IC can be advanced with feats/items). There's even synergy between the horns and White Raven maneuvers!
With a vest of legends, masterwork war horn, inspirational boost and a badge of valour, you could have IC +7, but at a high action cost.
If you took Chaos Music, you'd be one level short of full IC advancement, which is a bit annoying (that last level costs you +1 IC, which would take you up to +8) and probably not worth it.
Dark Speech doesn't let you double IC boosts, which always annoys me, because evil bardsaders should definitely exist (as this build shows!). But that's not a problem with the build, it's a problem with Dark Speech being stupid.
If you do have a vest and horn, and you have multiple strong minions (e.g. Large dragon skeletons), I would recommend using both IC and DFI. A basic version of your first turn would look like this:
Swift - activate IC
Move - Order Forged from Chaos
Standard - activate DFI
That gives you +5d6 DFI and +5 IC plus the positioning advantages.
You can increase your music further by adding a badge of valour, activated right after you end your turn. You can also combine a belt of battle with a pre-cast/use-activated harmonize (learned instead of glitterdust) to free up your standard or swift action. That lets you add inspirational boost, WRT, or a standard-action spell/maneuver (get a wand chamber and cast haste!). I think I'd rather use White Raven Tactics, haste, and Clarion Call than these small IC boosts, but with enough minions, more IC beats almost anything else.
Leaning into minionmancy a bit more, adding bard 5-7 gets you haste and Song of the Heart as bonus feat, freeing up a feat for Song of the White Raven early on, as well as extra uses of bardic music (useful when you're inspiring twice per encounter). Interestingly, crusader 4-6 adds so much to the build, that it keeps up with a bard's haste (in part due to low CL on the bard), but you might need Extra Music somewhere (either with a flaw, or replacing PA/Divine Might).
Alignment restrictions permitting (i.e. your DM doesn't mind reflavouring RKV and Lawful bards), you could replace HH 4-10 with RKV 7. That lets you use both musics on round one, and still get a charge off (or haste + Order Forged from Chaos, which is a lovely combination). If you don't mind losing HH 3 as well, you can throw in another level of bard and hit 20th-level IC with Chaos Music, or an 8th level of RKV to get IL 17 and War Master's Charge.
So many options. Bardsaders are the best thing.Last edited by ExLibrisMortis; 2020-07-26 at 06:20 AM.
Spoiler: Collectible nice thingsMy incarnate/crusader. A self-healing crowd-control melee build (ECL 8).
My Ruby Knight Vindicator barsader. A party-buffing melee build (ECL 14).
Doctor Despair's and my all-natural approach to necromancy.
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2020-09-16, 05:41 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2014
Re: Optimization Showcase in the Playground: Army of Darkness
but don’t forget that you already have a high enough CL on this ability to create mummies or mohrgs.Excel sheet for 3.5 -- Native support for stacking rules and multiple forms; as lightweight as possible otherwise. (links currently broken, if you want a copy LMK)