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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    WolfInSheepsClothing

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    Default D&D 5e Base Class Contest XII Chat Thread

    Welcome to the chat thread for the twelfth Base Class Competition for D&D 5e. If you wish to say anything about the competition which is neither a submission nor a vote, then it belongs here. You do not need to be a contestant to post here. You are allowed to critique a competitor’s work and offer suggestions on how to improve their homebrew through this thread, but it is preferred if you do so through that class’ specific thread (if applicable).

    Current Contest: Hybrid Vigor

    Voting Thread: https://forums.giantitp.com/showthre...-Voting-Thread

    Spoiler: Former Competitions
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    1st contest: Who Needs Swords or Sorcery?, won by WarrentheHero with the Inventor

    2nd contest: Expect a low Margin of Terror, Won by Mourne with the Sleepwalker

    3rd Contest: The Elements, and not the Periodic Ones (Probably?), won By Pygmybatrider with The Shaman

    4th contest: Does Not Meet Expectations, won with a tie by Molemage with the Destined and Pygmybatrider's Mesmer

    5th contest: Time to Chill out, won by Molemage with the Wintreborn

    6th contest: The Monster Mash, won with a three-way tie by Molemage with the Golem, theVoidWatches with the Lycanthrope, and daemonaetae with the Elemental Scion

    7th contest: Remix Mastery, won by KOLE with the Ranger Remixed

    8th contest: Contest VIII: Magic Without Slots, won by MoleMage with the Cultist

    9th contest: It's Time for Time, won by MoleMage with the Clockwinder

    10th contest: Blast from the Past, won by PairO'DiceLost with the Martial Adept

    11th contest: Contest XI: Signature Creation won by MoleMage with the Chef


    Spoiler: Contest Rules
    Show

    1) The class you homebrew should fit the theme. You can interpret the theme as broadly as you like without risk of disqualification, but doing so may reduce your chances of earning votes during the voting period.
    2) You may only create one base class. If you create more than one class then you must choose which one to enter and remove all the others from this thread and the contest (making them invalid) . If you do not specify which one you favor by the time voting begins, all of your content is invalid.
    3) When you submit your class you must create a post on this thread which either has the content or holds a link to it. You may also optionally create one other individual thread for your class on the homebrew design sub-forum. If it is found that you have revealed your class on another site or on another thread than one on the homebrew design sub-forum, your entry will be considered invalid. If you do make a specific thread for you class, please mention its involvement to the competition in that thread. If you use external formatting resources such as Homebrewery, or GMBinder it is recommended that you also create a PDF of the content and share it here.
    4) You may use other homebrew content (such as feats, spells, magical items and monsters) or even features to supplement your class, provided you have permission from the original creator and provide links to the source. Failure to receive permission from the original creation will disqualify you from entry in the current contest.
    5) Your class must have fully completed mechanics and descriptions for it to be valid. Entries are due by 11:59 PM Central Time on the deadline. Any submissions after this point are invalid. No changes can be made to your class while voting is taking place. Failure to comply with the previous rule will result in disqualification.
    6) Any content which has been declared invalid by the rules above cannot be voted for, but you may decide to remove it from the contest and create another class instead. If you are disqualified then you are not allowed to enter any more homebrew for this competition, though you may still vote and later enter the next competition.
    7) Please note that misunderstandings occur, if you break a rule which results in disqualification it might be excused if you can convince the group that it was a result of confusion over the rules.

    Contests stay up for 8 weeks unless an extension is requested by participants. Voting threads then go up for 3 weeks before the next contest begins.


    Spoiler: Suggested Themes
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    Dragons
    Based in Science
    Heroes from Myths
    Partial Casters
    Divine Judgment
    Other Media
    Last edited by MoleMage; 2020-09-28 at 04:13 PM.
    Currently operating the 5e Subclass Contest and the 5e Base Class Contest. Check them out if even just to vote or give feedback, we love that in there.

    Spoiler
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    My DMsGuild content. Most of it was written with feedback from right here on the forums.
    My Patreon content. It's mostly setting development and short fiction about the adventuring party in one of my games in the same setting.

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    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: D&D 5e Base Class Contest XII Chat Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by MoleMage View Post
    1. Kombatant: Suitable for good ol' fashioned fisticuffs or brutal martial arts, and the mechanics seem sound. I'm considering giving it a test.
    2. Monster: Highly customizable, unorthodox, right up my alley.
    3. Shaman: It's in a solid place, just needs some clarification on features.


    Just want to say that I liked all the classes in this contest. Picking a top 3 was difficult.

    My top picks for theme are Partial Casters and Hybrid Vigor.
    Ahh, how bittersweet: my pick for first place won, but my vote placed it over my own class. C'est la vie.
    My Homebrew (Free to use, don't even bother asking. PM me if you do, though; I'd love to hear stories).

    Avatar done by me (It's Durkon redrawn as Salvador from Borderlands 2).



    Nod, get treat.

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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: D&D 5e Base Class Contest XII Chat Thread

    Wish I was more familiar with 5e, don't really know enough about it to homebrew or even critique anything.
    "Come play in the darkness with me."
    Thanks for the avatar, banjo1985!

    Spoiler
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    I guess I'm a Neutral Good Human Wizard (4th Level)
    Ability Scores:
    Strength- 14
    Dexterity- 15
    Constitution- 17
    Intelligence- 20
    Wisdom- 20
    Charisma- 12
    Take the 'What D&D Character am I?" Quiz!


    Somehow I doubt the veracity of this quiz :P
    Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?

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    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: D&D 5e Base Class Contest XII Chat Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Edea View Post
    Wish I was more familiar with 5e, don't really know enough about it to homebrew or even critique anything.
    None of the rest of us let that stop us
    My Homebrew (Free to use, don't even bother asking. PM me if you do, though; I'd love to hear stories).

    Avatar done by me (It's Durkon redrawn as Salvador from Borderlands 2).



    Nod, get treat.

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    Dwarf in the Playground
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    Default Re: D&D 5e Base Class Contest XII Chat Thread

    I'm thinking about some kind of Monk/Sorcerer hybrid, who gets a limited form of martial arts as well as being able to use Ki for spells and metamagic. My vague thought is giving them half-caster spell progression and half ki progression, and they can convert spell slots to ki and vice versa. Not sure about the name of the class yet, but the flavor will be about using your disciplined spirit to achieve explicitly magical effects, not just enhancing your body - and being that your spells will come from your own spirit, you can have greater control over them than a wizard who learns them by rote. Subclasses will be like a mix of kung fu styles and sorcerer bloodlines - each one is a suite of magical martial arts based off of a magical creature or phenomenon, so instead of monkey style or snake style you'll have dragon style or djinn style.

    In short: half-caster Monk/Sorcerer hybrid, taking magical martial arts to the next level.
    Hi, you can call me Void. I prefer she/her or they/them pronouns, please. Yes, "they" is a singular pronoun. I write a superhero webserial called Paternum - check it out!



    PEACH My 5e Homebrew, including...

    Yet Another Warlock Rewrite (on GiantITP) Playtested Once!

    Lycanthrope Base Class (on GiantITP) Contest Winner!

    Vampire Base Class (on GiantITP) Full Class!

    Inspiration Domain (On GiantITP) In Playtest!

    Skinwalker Ranger Subclass (on GiantITP) Silver Medalist!

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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    WolfInSheepsClothing

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    Default Re: D&D 5e Base Class Contest XII Chat Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Edea View Post
    Wish I was more familiar with 5e, don't really know enough about it to homebrew or even critique anything.
    As far as creating homebrew
    sengmeng is right. We all had to take the homebrewing leap at some point, and for me at least it was this contest (or one similar to it). Don't worry so much about perfect balance on early drafts, there are a lot of people in the forum here who can give balancing advice and the reasoning behind it.

    I have been meaning to create a basic guide to homebrewing a base class for a bit now, and not just for this contest. Mind, that's just hubris talking because there are already plenty of great guides floating around for that purpose.

    As far as providing feedback
    Not all critique needs to be from a balance perspective. Opinions on class flavor or even simple proofreading are helpful too.
    Currently operating the 5e Subclass Contest and the 5e Base Class Contest. Check them out if even just to vote or give feedback, we love that in there.

    Spoiler
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    My DMsGuild content. Most of it was written with feedback from right here on the forums.
    My Patreon content. It's mostly setting development and short fiction about the adventuring party in one of my games in the same setting.

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    Dwarf in the Playground
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    Default Re: D&D 5e Base Class Contest XII Chat Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by theVoidWatches View Post
    I'm thinking about some kind of Monk/Sorcerer hybrid, who gets a limited form of martial arts as well as being able to use Ki for spells and metamagic. My vague thought is giving them half-caster spell progression and half ki progression, and they can convert spell slots to ki and vice versa. Not sure about the name of the class yet, but the flavor will be about using your disciplined spirit to achieve explicitly magical effects, not just enhancing your body - and being that your spells will come from your own spirit, you can have greater control over them than a wizard who learns them by rote. Subclasses will be like a mix of kung fu styles and sorcerer bloodlines - each one is a suite of magical martial arts based off of a magical creature or phenomenon, so instead of monkey style or snake style you'll have dragon style or djinn style.

    In short: half-caster Monk/Sorcerer hybrid, taking magical martial arts to the next level.
    Update on my plan here:
    I've outlined the base features of the class, but haven't yet created subclass features or picked out a spell list.
    Their subclass is Mystic Styles, each of which come in three tiers - normal, mastery, and exemplar. You get a Mystic Style 4 times, and each time you can choose from any Style - if you pick one you already have at the normal level, you get its Mastery. At level 18 you get one more pick, and if you pick a style you have Mastery of, you get its Exemplar feature (otherwise you get its Mastery). You can trade in a Style when you level up. I have plans for 4 Styles to start, which means you could become the Exemplar of one style and Master the other, learn all four styles and Master one of them, or learn two styles normally and become an Exemplar of a third.
    The normal features of a style are going to be a Stance (giving you passive benefits which you have access to while you're in the stance - enter it while rolling Initiative or switch as a Bonus Action), a feature that costs Ki, which can only be used while you're in that Stance, and an expanded spell list. Mastery is planned to be a bonus to those features, possibly allowing you to have a lower level of it while in another Stance. Exemplar benefits will probably vary a bit more.
    I'm gonna have a Dragon Style, which is focused on weapons and armor - making you both a devastating damage-dealer and an absolute tank, just like dragons themselves; Djinn Style, which is more focused on casting - making you into more of a war mage with a focus on an element of your choice; Hydra Style, which is focused on making additional attacks and taking damage - it'll be something along the lines of escalating benefits the more damage you've taken, like how Hydras get more dangerous with more heads; and Beholder Style, which is focused on ranged magical attacks.

    I've settled on Enlightened Martial Artist as a placeholder name, but I'm not happy with how long it is.
    Last edited by theVoidWatches; 2020-07-28 at 01:00 PM.
    Hi, you can call me Void. I prefer she/her or they/them pronouns, please. Yes, "they" is a singular pronoun. I write a superhero webserial called Paternum - check it out!



    PEACH My 5e Homebrew, including...

    Yet Another Warlock Rewrite (on GiantITP) Playtested Once!

    Lycanthrope Base Class (on GiantITP) Contest Winner!

    Vampire Base Class (on GiantITP) Full Class!

    Inspiration Domain (On GiantITP) In Playtest!

    Skinwalker Ranger Subclass (on GiantITP) Silver Medalist!

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    Orc in the Playground
     
    Daemon

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    Default Re: D&D 5e Base Class Contest XII Chat Thread

    Guildmaster is up, but I may swap out for a Monk/Ranger mix. Take the 2 weakest and make something strong.

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    Orc in the Playground
     
    SwashbucklerGuy

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    Default Re: D&D 5e Base Class Contest XII Chat Thread

    Being away from these contests for far too long, so hello there!

    I started looking at an occult detective class building on a paladin-like (half-caster, pseudo smites, channel divinity) with a wizard aspects (Int-based casting, spellbook, a lot of rituals), and a touch of rogue (Dex-based, expertise in investigation, use magic device). I am thinking that the spellcasting will be mostly rituals, with the channel divinity can be being used to cast spells directly while having features that regain it. It is mostly an outline so far.

    Either I will go with that the subclasses will represent how the occultist gains their magic similar to warlock patrons or sorcerer origins; celestials, fiend, and undead or fey?, or I might change the class to just be an occultist and have the subclasses be more about what kind of occultist you are like how rogues and paladins do it; detective, witch hunter, charlatan? The last option is closer to the main classes of inspiration and gives the class a better name, while the other feels like it could diversify a lot better.

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    Default Re: D&D 5e Base Class Contest XII Chat Thread

    Welp, I tried. I like the Enlightened Martial Artist one.
    "Come play in the darkness with me."
    Thanks for the avatar, banjo1985!

    Spoiler
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    I guess I'm a Neutral Good Human Wizard (4th Level)
    Ability Scores:
    Strength- 14
    Dexterity- 15
    Constitution- 17
    Intelligence- 20
    Wisdom- 20
    Charisma- 12
    Take the 'What D&D Character am I?" Quiz!


    Somehow I doubt the veracity of this quiz :P
    Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?

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    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: D&D 5e Base Class Contest XII Chat Thread

    Zipped through the Herald of Ragnarok; I'd previously made a 3.5 version of this class for a contest under the theme of Armageddon, and I also heavily ripped off my own entry to a previous sublcass contest, the Barbarian Path to Valhalla. Yes, I'm absolutely obsessed with Norse mythology

    If it's not obvious, it's a hybrid of barbarian and cleric, with a couple random features from wherever.

    I will try to give feedback.
    My Homebrew (Free to use, don't even bother asking. PM me if you do, though; I'd love to hear stories).

    Avatar done by me (It's Durkon redrawn as Salvador from Borderlands 2).



    Nod, get treat.

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    Default Re: D&D 5e Base Class Contest XII Chat Thread

    Finished a first draft of the Enlightened Martial Artist, including the Mystic Styles and the spell list.

    I'm... not super happy with it, tbh. I feel like it doesn't take much from sorcerer and takes too much from monk. Sorcerer's don't really have a unique mechanic other than metamagic, I guess, and the thing that ended up being unique about the EMA ended up being the subclasses, I guess. Not sure how to fix it while keeping the monk/sorcerer idea...
    Maybe it would be better to turn it into a monk/paladin? The half-casting is still viable, and smiting is a mechanic I'm quite fond of.
    I dunno. I'll come back later and see if I have any ideas.
    Hi, you can call me Void. I prefer she/her or they/them pronouns, please. Yes, "they" is a singular pronoun. I write a superhero webserial called Paternum - check it out!



    PEACH My 5e Homebrew, including...

    Yet Another Warlock Rewrite (on GiantITP) Playtested Once!

    Lycanthrope Base Class (on GiantITP) Contest Winner!

    Vampire Base Class (on GiantITP) Full Class!

    Inspiration Domain (On GiantITP) In Playtest!

    Skinwalker Ranger Subclass (on GiantITP) Silver Medalist!

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    ElfRangerGuy

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    Default Re: D&D 5e Base Class Contest XII Chat Thread

    Having a brain fart, can you give me some examples for the theme. Is this halfcasters time?
    Its poisoned, obviously

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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: D&D 5e Base Class Contest XII Chat Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Leathalsandwich View Post
    Having a brain fart, can you give me some examples for the theme. Is this halfcasters time?
    I think it's 'take two base classes (including homebrew ones if you have permission/they're yours), throw into a blender, add your own secret spices, frappe, and serve.' So like "Fighter + Ranger", or "Monk + Cleric", but with a couple of soft twists of your own.
    "Come play in the darkness with me."
    Thanks for the avatar, banjo1985!

    Spoiler
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    I guess I'm a Neutral Good Human Wizard (4th Level)
    Ability Scores:
    Strength- 14
    Dexterity- 15
    Constitution- 17
    Intelligence- 20
    Wisdom- 20
    Charisma- 12
    Take the 'What D&D Character am I?" Quiz!


    Somehow I doubt the veracity of this quiz :P
    Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?

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    Pixie in the Playground
     
    ElfRangerGuy

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    Default Re: D&D 5e Base Class Contest XII Chat Thread

    Thanks, well i better get started, i have some brews to go look over
    Its poisoned, obviously

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    Pixie in the Playground
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    Default Re: D&D 5e Base Class Contest XII Chat Thread

    I've been making my character class on homebrewery. Your recommendation was to pull a pdf of it and post that but I do not see a way to attach a pdf to a post. How do I do that? My brain un-FUBARed itself today and I was able to correct and modify an old concept I've been tinkering around with for about 2 years and once I get the spell list built I'd like to post it.

    As a side note, does that happen to anyone else? Where you just cant seem to find the right way to phrase things no matter how hard you try and the harder you try the more brain just locks up and refuses to work right. Then one day something just clicks and its like you can't type the words fast enough.

    Edit- to clarify - I've typed about 9 pages so far this evening and I am expecting another 5-6 pages to finish it. I really don't want to let this moment of happy productivity slip by and get this done before I revert back to my usual frustrated and easily distracted self. Its been so long since I finished a hobby project. I've got a house full of half finished "great" ideas that I never could see through to the end.
    Last edited by Crim the Cold; 2020-08-01 at 12:06 AM.

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    Orc in the Playground
     
    Daemon

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    Default Re: D&D 5e Base Class Contest XII Chat Thread

    I usually put it in google drive and link to it there

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    Orc in the Playground
     
    Daemon

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    Default Re: D&D 5e Base Class Contest XII Chat Thread

    Monk/Ranger Hybrid is up, replacing Guildmaster is “The Feral.”

    It’s taking its time coming together. Didn’t realize how bad the Ranger spell list is. Supplementing with some Paladin, Druid, and Wizard spells.

    The gist is you were a cast out, either raised by wolves or a pariah on the mean streets.

    You intuit some spells and learn to push past your limits for survival. Limit Break is functionally Ki, the Spell scaling is very different, almost a hybrid of monk and warlock.

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    Pixie in the Playground
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    Default Re: D&D 5e Base Class Contest XII Chat Thread

    Knight Enchanter is up. This is my first time making a character class. When I'm not so tired I'll try to give suggestions and critiques for the other character classes as best I can. No one told me creating a custom spell list for a character class would be this much work - it took way longer than I thought it would. The document is 15 pages long and has a few Walls-o-Text. I hope they arent too bad. If they are I apologize for the eye strain.

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    Orc in the Playground
     
    Daemon

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    Default Re: D&D 5e Base Class Contest XII Chat Thread

    Have all the Feral basics put together. It came together okay. Struggled a lot with the capstones.

    Adding spell casting let me replace a bunch of monk features with “here’s a spell.” Monk movement, all spells (longstrider, expeditious retreat, spiderclimb, waterwalk).

    The Wild Child probably has the better overall damage with one of their techniques granting an extra attack and bonus damage, but I think the Hood might have some solid tanking potential, with a no feat/no item AC of 21 at 17th and the human shield technique (allowing them to split damage between themselves and a creature they’re grappling with as a reaction).

    I’ll be working it into a homebrewery pdf over the next few days.

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    Default Re: D&D 5e Base Class Contest XII Chat Thread

    Oh, man, this is going to be a tricky one to make.

    Quote Originally Posted by Heavenblade View Post
    Reserving place for the Factotum, a bard-rogue hybrid!
    Looking forward to seeing this one!

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    Pixie in the Playground
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    Default Re: D&D 5e Base Class Contest XII Chat Thread

    Here are some critiques and suggestions. Please feel free to offer your own opinions on my work.

    Spoiler: Sengmeng - Herald of Ragnarok
    Show
    Love the flavor. Really like the miracle system. I will probably borrow that idea for some other homebrews I am working on for a campaign I plan to run this fall.

    What ability score do miracles use for attack bonus and DC?

    I feel some clarity is needed for the trickster blessings. Invoke duplicity does not specify what happens if the enemy interacts with the illusory copy such as attacking it. Do they automatically believe it is the real thing or do they get a saving throw and if they do get a saving throw what ability score sets the DC? Master of flame does not specify if the invisibility granted is a greater invisibility effect or the regular invisibility effect.

    Eyes of the Watcher has a minor spelling mistake on the second time perception is used in the sentence. See the unseen has blindsight misspelled. Hunter’s Rage - the bonus action should probably have a saving throw for a lesser effect on success.


    Spoiler: Berserker Unit - Feral
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    On Sight Beyond Sight you probably need to pick extend or double or reword the sentence to use both. If picking one I would pick double as it is more specific than extend which needs additional qualifiers as to how much it extends. Also is this ability supposed to have a cost? True sight at-will seems a little overpowered for level 15. If it isn’t supposed to have a cost then maybe blindsight or tremorsense might be a more 'Rangery' substitute since they rely on sharpened natural senses. Tremorsense allows the character to break stealth checks in its radius as long as the character and the stealthed target share a surface or medium other than air. It would allow the character to pull off the, “I know you’re there.” bit when a particularly stealthy enemy is trying to ambush the character or the character’s party. Truesight doesn’t do this, it just bypasses any magical obfuscations(and sometimes ruins a DM’s carefully planned dungeon but I might just be projecting here).

    I really like Swift Recovery although I thought cheat death type abilities usually came online around level 3 or so. This is a bit more powerful than other cheat death abilities so it makes sense that it comes online later.

    Brooding Demeanor - maybe add intimidation in there as well. The characters I have seen played usually have 1 or the other but not both.

    Plus Ultra - Alright Toshinori… only thing I can see here is that Plus Ultra is also a mantra about picking yourself up even if you stumble and pushing yourself beyond your limits despite your failings. I would also add in those limit break points if you roll a natural 1. Otherwise all I can say is, “Go Beyond!”

    In Wild Soul techniques, “You Prey’s Stillness.” is missing a verb. Lick wound has a sentence fragment, ”you gain proficiency in” that looks like you meant to remove it.

    Ragdoll - clarity needed on the last sentence.

    Heart of the city - It might be helpful to provide the book and page reference where those stat blocks can be found.


    Spoiler: theVoidWatches - Enlightened Martial Artist
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    Don’t sell yourself short. Outside of metamagic most of the sorcerer’s uniqueness comes from the subclasses which flavor the class with the source of their power. You’ve managed to capture that quality with the subclasses while still giving them a uniqueness all their own. The class feels like a fantasy magic martial artist whose abilities are more arcane than the typical eastern mysticism usually associated with the class. So more like Big Trouble in Little China and less like Ip Man or Jackie Chan and Jet Li in The Forbidden Kingdom. I hope that helps.

    I feel like the ki point progression is too slow for how many things you can do with it. I get that you are trying to slow down the progression due to having spells and martial arts but both sorcerer and monk players often complain about limited resources. I’d probably aim to have 15 ki points at level 20.

    In Flexible casting you called Ki Points Sorcery Points in the last sentence.

    In the subclasses nothing notes when each feature is gained. I can extrapolate from the previous feature explanation but it would make it easier to understand if it did.

    In the Dragon style, when you get access to dragon breath the total cost to use it is the same as the number of ki points you have at this point. Unless you want to give up a significant number of spells out of your total for the day to recharge your ki points you are done doing anything needing ki points that day. The only suggestion I can think of is to instead allow it to be used by using up 1 of your level 2 spells slots instead of taking up ki but only when in dragon stance. So you know it but can only use it when mentally and physically prepared to if you get my meaning.

    In Djinn style there is a name discrepancy between the exemplar feature and all the others.

    It seems that the styles can be categorized as off-tank (Dragon Style), ki recovery (Djinn Style), striker (Hydra Style), and anti-caster (Beholder Style).


    I've hit my limit for critiques for now. I tried looking at the other character classes but trying to absorb and comprehend too much info at once is starting to make stuff run together. I will get to the others later. I hope my commentary helps!
    Last edited by Crim the Cold; 2020-08-06 at 02:47 PM.

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    Default Re: D&D 5e Base Class Contest XII Chat Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Crim the Cold View Post
    Enlightened Martial Artist

    Don’t sell yourself short. Outside of metamagic most of the sorcerer’s uniqueness comes from the subclasses which flavor the class with the source of their power. You’ve managed to capture that quality with the subclasses while still giving them a uniqueness all their own. The class feels like a fantasy magic martial artist whose abilities are more arcane than the typical eastern mysticism usually associated with the class. So more like Big Trouble in Little China and less like Ip Man or Jackie Chan and Jet Li in The Forbidden Kingdom. I hope that helps.
    That was roughly the goal, so I'm glad it came across. I do feel a little better about it after having a bit to think about it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Crim the Cold View Post
    I feel like the ki point progression is too slow for how many things you can do with it. I get that you are trying to slow down the progression due to having spells and martial arts but both sorcerer and monk players often complain about limited resources. I’d probably aim to have 15 ki points at level 20.
    15 seems like a lot, though - it's still a short-rest resource. Not to mention how powerful the stances end up being. I think 10 is probably fine.

    Quote Originally Posted by Crim the Cold View Post
    In the subclasses nothing notes when each feature is gained. I can extrapolate from the previous feature explanation but it would make it easier to understand if it did.
    The styles can't specify what levels you earn them at, because you can earn them at different levels. You could take the basic features of Dragon Style at level 3, the Mastery at level 6, and the Exemplar at 18, or you could take the basic at level 3 and not pick up the Mastery until 15, and not take the Exemplar at all.
    I know it goes against the normal formatting to not specify what levels you get them at, but... I don't think I can get it into a 5e-standard format. I guess I could arrange them into something more like invocations, with masteries and exemplar features requiring you to have the previous level of the feature? It would be a lot to pack into the first level of the style, though... I'll think about this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Crim the Cold View Post
    In the Dragon style, when you get access to dragon breath the total cost to use it is the same as the number of ki points you have at this point. Unless you want to give up a significant number of spells out of your total for the day to recharge your ki points you are done doing anything needing ki points that day. The only suggestion I can think of is to instead allow it to be used by using up 1 of your level 2 spells slots instead of taking up ki but only when in dragon stance. So you know it but can only use it when mentally and physically prepared to if you get my meaning.
    And with how limited your Ki points will end up being... hm. Maybe it would be better if it just let you cast it for free once per short rest, and you could then use your Ki to cast it again?

    Quote Originally Posted by Crim the Cold View Post
    It seems that the styles can be categorized as off-tank (Dragon Style), ki recovery (Djinn Style), striker (Hydra Style), and anti-caster (Beholder Style).
    That's not entirely inaccurate for how it turned out. In my notes, Dragon Style is for weapons/armor, Djinn Style is for more magic use, Hydra Style is for making lots of attacks, and Beholder Style is for ranged attacks. The other stuff - Dragon's Breath and the flight in Dragon Style, the elemental theming of Djinn Style, the incentives to take damage in Hydra Style, and the antimagical parts of Beholder Style - came just from theming them after the creatures in question.
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    Default Re: D&D 5e Base Class Contest XII Chat Thread

    Thanks, that’s some editor style feedback I much appreciate!

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    Default Re: D&D 5e Base Class Contest XII Chat Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by theVoidWatches View Post
    15 seems like a lot, though - it's still a short-rest resource. Not to mention how powerful the stances end up being. I think 10 is probably fine.
    I was thinking of it as long rest resource. The mistake is mine.

    Quote Originally Posted by theVoidWatches View Post
    The styles can't specify what levels you earn them at, because you can earn them at different levels. You could take the basic features of Dragon Style at level 3, the Mastery at level 6, and the Exemplar at 18, or you could take the basic at level 3 and not pick up the Mastery until 15, and not take the Exemplar at all.
    I know it goes against the normal formatting to not specify what levels you get them at, but... I don't think I can get it into a 5e-standard format. I guess I could arrange them into something more like invocations, with masteries and exemplar features requiring you to have the previous level of the feature? It would be a lot to pack into the first level of the style, though... I'll think about this.
    Once again I misunderstood. I should have read better. I didn't realize that unlike normal subclasses the mystic styles can be partially taken rather than being stuck with the one you chose. In this way if you so choose you can pick all 4 mystic styles but master none of them by choosing one each at 3, 6, 10, and 15. So you can completely master 1 style and pick up the basics of another style or what i formerly mentioned and get the basics of all 4 styles. That's pretty cool! Also a very powerful and class defining feature!

    Formatting wise I wouldn't rely on the reader to intuit which parts of the style are the basics and which are the mastery and exemplar. I'm kind of a dummy and it took you explaining it for me to realize that everything else was a basic feature of the style that wasn't labeled mastery or exemplar. You'd think it would be obvious but some reason it wasn't. Maybe list (bullet point or otherwise) the basics under a larger title calling them such? Might also include a detail under mastery and exemplar that indicates the prerequisites for each to be learned.



    Quote Originally Posted by theVoidWatches View Post
    And with how limited your Ki points will end up being... hm. Maybe it would be better if it just let you cast it for free once per short rest, and you could then use your Ki to cast it again?
    Recharging it with ki seems to be the best solution since it ties the ability to the short rest resource rather than the long rest resource. This allows the decision to rest on the player. They get the one use and then they decide if it is worth using ki to recharge it or not. My previous suggestion stemmed from my previous misunderstanding where I mixed up ki and sorcery points.


    Quote Originally Posted by theVoidWatches View Post
    That's not entirely inaccurate for how it turned out. In my notes, Dragon Style is for weapons/armor, Djinn Style is for more magic use, Hydra Style is for making lots of attacks, and Beholder Style is for ranged attacks. The other stuff - Dragon's Breath and the flight in Dragon Style, the elemental theming of Djinn Style, the incentives to take damage in Hydra Style, and the antimagical parts of Beholder Style - came just from theming them after the creatures in question.
    I was just commenting on how each style and its mechanics seemed to play from my perspective. I don't share your frame of reference and mind state so its to be expected that I would see it different than you.

    Overall it is not a traditional D&D 5e base class with static subclasses that you choose and stick with and that is okay. Now that I understand that it makes it sound even cooler!

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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: D&D 5e Base Class Contest XII Chat Thread

    Making headway on the witch. For space reasons I'm not going to put the full descriptions of each formula in the post; but they'll all be recorded in the linked GMBinder document. About half of them are just rebalanced formulae from the original Alchemist. My current plan is to give feedback on anything that looks completed on Sunday through Tuesday, regardless of how much progress I've made on the Witch by then.
    Currently operating the 5e Subclass Contest and the 5e Base Class Contest. Check them out if even just to vote or give feedback, we love that in there.

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    Default Re: D&D 5e Base Class Contest XII Chat Thread

    Changing my submission to Oracle, though might be renamed
    Its poisoned, obviously

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    Default Re: D&D 5e Base Class Contest XII Chat Thread

    Feedback Pt. 1. Since Crim started with the first entry, I'll start with the last and work my way backwards so that everyone gets a review.

    Spoiler: Knight Enchanter
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    Ah yes, the warlock-fighter-wizard-cleric. The fact that this class occupies such a clear thematic space but needs to be compared to four different classes from baseline D&D suggests that its niche is fully necessary.

    • The class table shows 1 Technique at 1st level, but you don't get the feature that gives you techniques until 2nd level.
    • That's a lot of features for 1st level. The cantrips probably don't need to be on the class table though, since they're included in the spellcasting description already.
    • Enchanting refers to "Full Round Action". 5e just has Action or Bonus Action. It also uses per day terminology, while 5e tends to prefer "you can do X Y number of times. You regain all expended uses on completing a [short/long] rest." (Magic items often instead use "regain charges at [specific time of day]").
    • Enchantment usage limits seem to also be "per-weapon". This means that the Knight-Enchanter functionally has no limit on enchantment use provided they can keep providing weapons to enchant. I would make it instead work similarly to spell slots, where the Knight-Enchanter can activate X enchantment Y times, split across all enchantments of that level.
    • Can techniques be swapped out on level-up like Invocations, or are they locked in like Fighting Style?
    • Animate Weapon says it can attack, but does not say what type of action is required to make it attack. Does the weapon get its own initiative? Does it attack on your turn with no action required? Does it attack only when you take the attack action? Do you command it with a bonus action?
    • I recommend adding some paragraph breaks in Enchanting and Animate Weapon. The actual wording seems clear enough to me but I lost my line a couple times trying to read through it.
    • Masterwork Forging's example "Lighter" treats One-handed, Light, and Finesse as a spectrum, but Light and Finesse are actually two separate weapon traits. A weapon can be both (Short Swords, Daggers, Scimitars), just Light (Hand Axe), just Finesse (Rapier), or neither. The other examples seem fine, though I'm worried about Custom Fitting balance-wise, as it would allow a higher armor class than any other armor type when combined with medium armor.
    • Quick Binding in each subclass refers to a "Full Round Action".


    Techniques:
    • I'd like to see more variety of techniques, though given how few the class learns you probably don't need more than one or two additional techniques.
    • Techniques with scaling damage cap out at level 10, which seems too early.
    • Field of Blades and Sweeping Slash occupy the same usage space. The only difference is the shape of their damage. I would rather see more unique options like Dispelling Slash.
    • Storm of Blades: it's good to have a per-enemy limitation, but I think the technique would be cleaner if it just had a flat damage instead of being based on the number of weapons in your storage.



    Enchantments:
    • Some enchantments refer to "enhancement bonus". 5e doesn't have bonus types, it just specifies (a +X to attack and damage rolls) and usually indicates whether or not the effect is cumulative with similar effects (typically not).
    • Overall, the limits you've placed on enchantments (max 3 active, the short durations for non-permanent, the hard limit on number placed on a given weapon/armor) seem to be pretty good. Other than my concerns raised in the actual Enchanting feature above, I don't have anything to add here (actually looking at most of them, it seems like the class is dependent on ehchants to keep up with other classes, so the "no upper limit on enchantment activations" thing may be something of a non-issue).


    Overall, this is a fun-looking class. Other than some readability edits and a couple of terms that snuck in from 3.5e I don't have any major changes I would recommend. It's a good class (and if you've read through some of the contests you missed you'll know I'm a sucker for new subsystems).


    Spoiler: The Occultist
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    It fills an excellent niche, and also works as a witchhunter/mage breaker type class (I'll use magic, but I'm not a magic-user).

    • A class table would be nice. There are some pre-formatted example tables in this thread that you can copy and paste, editing only necessary details.
    • Is the occultist limited to ritual magic only, or do they get actual spell slots as well? It seems based on theme like it might be the former, but it isn't explicitly stated. If they get slots, what is their progression? (As Paladin seems the best fit).
    • Warding Preparation. I thought initially that making the weapon count as magical for that attack as well would be good, but thinking on it more that would basically create situations where there are no creatures immune to it, since very few things are immune to magical weapon damage.
    • Channel Occult: Is this the only non-ritual way to cast an occultist spell? If so, can you upcast spells once you have access to higher levels, or is it limited to the spell's base level only?
    • Use Magic Device: It's such a cool feature that it makes me sad to say this, but I think an extra Ambition feature might belong here instead. There's a huge gap between Ambition Spells/Channel at 3 and the next ambition feature at 10.
    • Ambitions: I'd like to see your Ambition features get their own names and be formatted as a base features. The Ambition spells seem fine.



    Looking forward to the rest of the ambition features and the spell list. I feel like this class just fits into its own place without stepping on any toes, despite drawing on fighter and wizard to exist.


    Spoiler: Duskblade
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    Rogue and Warlock are the two classes that operate outside of social norms, so combining them just makes sense.

    • Skill Proficiencies: Static proficiency in a skill is unusual in 5e. I would also reduce the total number to 3, so as not to take away from the rogue's unique trait of getting 4 skills.
    • They get Invocations at 1st level, a level earlier than their parent class. That said, they also don't get their subclass and spellcasting at 1st level, so it probably evens out.
    • Tenebrous Body and Tenebrous Mind: I'm guessing these features are why the class gives static skill proficiencies. I rather like the features (super expertise but not flexibly chosen), so I'm okay with the static skill proficiencies for that reason.
    • I really like Shadow Flicker as a feature. It's like a better version of Hide in Plain Sight (which was a travesty of a feature since moving ruined the effect).
    • Shadow Persona should probably have a cooldown on use after it or you is destroyed, and possibly should have reduced hit points compared to you. Otherwise you're basically playing two level 20 characters with the ability to make a copy of yourself the turn after dying indefinitely.


    Overall the base features look fine. It's not quite a rogue, not quite a warlock, and the "shadow" line of features gives it its own unique thing.

    Subclasses:
    • I would limit Stalker in the Night to creatures unaware of you, rather than just being hidden (similar to assassin rogue).
    • Death in the Dark doesn't indicate what type of action it is to use.
    • Dark Whispers and Dark Instinct come much earlier than the class features they duplicate. I would either make them reduced versions of those features or move them to later in their respective subclasses.
    • Shadow Eclipse, Void of the Dark Sun, and Children of the Night need some clarification on their specific effects.
    • Balance of the Night Sky: Flight maneuverability is not used in 5e anymore. Flying creatures are instead indicated as being able to hover or not (the only real distinction).
    • Shadow Pounce is cool, like a conditional Action Surge. I like it.


    My only other concern here is that there aren't really any archetypes that improve on the cantrip and invocation side of the class. Other than that and the few specific notes above I don't have anything to add.

    I'm not going to do a whole section on invocations, since almost all of them are mildly adjusted warlock invocations corrected to not require spell slots and renamed to fit the theme. A couple of new invocations to interact sneak attack or improving the class's unique features would be nice too.

    In summary, I think you have a good class here. Other than a couple of subclasses getting clones of other class's features several levels early and potential exploitation of the capstone (which really...it's competing with wish and nothing can keep up with wish), it's balanced and good.


    I'll get the rest of the currently-posted classes reviewed tomorrow. This is a great turnout already. So many different ideas blended in.
    Currently operating the 5e Subclass Contest and the 5e Base Class Contest. Check them out if even just to vote or give feedback, we love that in there.

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    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: D&D 5e Base Class Contest XII Chat Thread

    Thanks for feedback! I'll be considering all of it, implementing most of it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Crim the Cold View Post
    Sengmeng's Herald of Ragnarok Love the flavor. Really like the miracle system. I will probably borrow that idea for some other homebrews I am working on for a campaign I plan to run this fall.
    Nice! Thanks!

    What ability score do miracles use for attack bonus and DC?
    Added Wisdom as the relevant ability

    I feel some clarity is needed for the trickster blessings. Invoke duplicity does not specify what happens if the enemy interacts with the illusory copy such as attacking it. Do they automatically believe it is the real thing or do they get a saving throw and if they do get a saving throw what ability score sets the DC? Master of flame does not specify if the invisibility granted is a greater invisibility effect or the regular invisibility effect.
    This is a word for word copy from the Trickery Domain's ability of the same name, so I don't know. Clarified that Master of Flame emulates the invisibilty spell, ending when an attack is made or a spell cast.

    Eyes of the Watcher has a minor spelling mistake on the second time perception is used in the sentence. See the unseen has blindsight misspelled. Hunter’s Rage - the bonus action should probably have a saving throw for a lesser effect on success. Fixed and Done
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    Default Re: D&D 5e Base Class Contest XII Chat Thread

    Yeah, still got 3.5 paradigms on the brain. Will get to looking at those subclasses soon enough, thanks for the PEACH
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