Let's Fix: The Assassin

[Lupine]

Anyone object to increasing SA die size?

Doesnt have any of the poison damage troubles and solidifies assassin as the straight up more lethal subclass

I’m for it. Super cool, super fun. But your original idea has the dice go from 6d6 (21 damage) to 6d10 (33 damage.) Is a potential +12 damage a turn balanced?

Another cool option would be to let the 9th level ability be a multi-attack with sneak attack on both. Obviously, this plus increased dice would be stupid powerful, so don’t do that, but otherwise, it would be super cool. The one issue I see is it might let you pull off a two crits to make 24d6 damage SA (84 damage) at level 20, but that sort of massive damage is what defines an assassin, personally.

[MrStabby]

Anyone object to increasing SA die size?

Doesnt have any of the poison damage troubles and solidifies assassin as the straight up more lethal subclass

I still feel it falls a bit too much into the all or nothing category. What I think is bad design is a feature that is likely to cut into other player's enjoyment. With high initiative, sources of advantage and single massive damage hits it becomes possible for a character to deal sufficient damage on the first action of a combat that it dictates the outcome, relegating the other players to mopping things up.

I think that there is a reasonable question about how to beef up the assassin and to deliver on the theme, but I think that there should be a renewed focus on it being a team game and any ability not diminishing the prospect of other players shining. I get that the assassin wouldn't be alone here, paladins spring to mind as another class that can spoil an encounter with a critical hit on the first round.

My preference would be to allow rerolling of some number of damage dice rather than increasing the max damage. It keeps the damage capped, it doesn't scale so well with criticalsbut represents a higher average damage. I don'thave a problem with raising the normal damageper round, but worry a lot more about the exceptional.

[Kane0]

I’m for it. Super cool, super fun. But your original idea has the dice go from 6d6 (21 damage) to 6d10 (33 damage.) Is a potential +12 damage a turn balanced?

Level 1: 1d6
Level 3: 2d8
Level 5: 3d8
Level 7: 4d8
Level 9: 5d8
Level 11: 6d8
Level 13: 7d10
Level 15: 8d10
Level 17: 9d10
Level 19: 10d10

No additional minimum damage, +1 average damage and +2 max per die at levels 3-12, +2 average damage and +4 max at levels 13-20
I wouldn't immediately say it's too much, Rogues tend to be on the low end of martial damage output unless you start adding in more than one SA per round.

Originally I thought this would replace assassination but if it's liked well enough to keep then would have to readjust.

I still feel it falls a bit too much into the all or nothing category. What I think is bad design is a feature that is likely to cut into other player's enjoyment. With high initiative, sources of advantage and single massive damage hits it becomes possible for a character to deal sufficient damage on the first action of a combat that it dictates the outcome, relegating the other players to mopping things up.

I think that there is a reasonable question about how to beef up the assassin and to deliver on the theme, but I think that there should be a renewed focus on it being a team game and any ability not diminishing the prospect of other players shining. I get that the assassin wouldn't be alone here, paladins spring to mind as another class that can spoil an encounter with a critical hit on the first round.

My preference would be to allow rerolling of some number of damage dice rather than increasing the max damage. It keeps the damage capped, it doesn't scale so well with criticalsbut represents a higher average damage. I don'thave a problem with raising the normal damageper round, but worry a lot more about the exceptional.

All or nothing? Most Rogues sneak attack once every round or two.

I'm not sure how getting an assassinate off would be any more disruption to an encounter than a well used action surge, stunning flurry or Sleep/Tasha's/Hold Person

Edit: As above, assassinate + bigger SA die could be very strong so would have to be accounted for.

[MrStabby]

All or nothing? Most Rogues sneak attack once every round or two.

I'm not sure how getting an assassinate off would be any more disruption to an encounter than a well used action surge, stunning flurry or Sleep/Tasha's/Hold Person

Edit: As above, assassinate + bigger SA die could be very strong so would have to be accounted for.

I am not saying these other things are perfect, but they are (with the exception of action surge) at least team abilities. They may dominate an encounter but at least they leave things on the table for other players to kill. I think we want to avoid a situation where it is likely that any one character alone could kill the most significant threat inadvertently fight in one turn (unless there are loads of them). As I said, this doent mean there are not already problem classes in this regard, but just because something is bad, doesnt mean we should encourage more.

I think an assassin should be an assured death, not necessarily a quick death.

This is why I would prefer things like a poison mechanic or a bleeding out mechanic over raw upfront damage. Damage over time can be a bit higher without being problematic.

[Kane0]

I am not saying these other things are perfect, but they are (with the exception of action surge) at least team abilities. They may dominate an encounter but at least they leave things on the table for other players to kill. I think we want to avoid a situation where it is likely that any one character alone could kill the most significant threat inadvertently fight in one turn (unless there are loads of them). As I said, this doent mean there are not already problem classes in this regard, but just because something is bad, doesnt mean we should encourage more.

Okay no worries, but some counterthoughts:

- how often are we getting off an assassinate? Given the prep/planning and good init roll typically involved i’d say less than half of fights in my games, perhaps about one quarter to a third

- how many combats are you going to have a single significant (majority of the XP?) enemy present and taking said assassinate? The majority of combats i run feature one or two enemies above the rest in CR, but again a quarter to third at most would have such a gap as to call the lesser ones ‘minions’ or functionally decide the encounter by decapitating the leader (morale notwithstanding)

- how often would said assassinate actually remove that creature in a single hit? Taking say level 5 as an example you’re looking at something like an 8d8 +Dex assassinate, plus riders like poison and buff spells. Thats a chunk of damage better than a lightning bolt or fireball, but still a ways off the monster creation rules standard 75-90 HP for a CR 5 foe.

- for damage over time, how long do your combats run for? Mine are usually around 3-5 rounds plus another one or two to mop up, so when im looking at spike damage vs dot thats the kind of yardstick i’m eyeballing by

- on a flavor note, how do we feel about assassins being single decisive stroke vs guaranteed death at some point? Personally the name assassin implies they dont mess around, even when using poison to secure a kill fast acting is preferred.

[Yakk]

Goal:
Seperate initial burst from surprise. Permit two-turn in-combat assassination. Provide out of combat utility.

Level 3 ability is a setup that lets you target a creature for death. It takes an action, cheap out of combat if you have the drop in someone. In combat, it isn't that suboptimal; a crit is worth almost 2 hits, and you get free advantage. Also made it so it doesn't work with action-surge immediate hits.

Next, we roll the disguise stuff into one. Add in anti-magic vetos.

Then we grsnt poison. Immunity is cheap and impactful. Out of combat contact and injested poison is fun. In combat, a sneak attack damage boost at modest cost (worse damage type, bonus action).

Death blow at 17 is d12s instead of double. And "no, they are dead dead" is the right scale of veto at 17. You kill things, no cleric is bringing them back.

So roughly:

3: Setup

As an action you can prepare to assassinate a creature you are aware of within 100'. You gain advantage on all attack rolls on the creature your next turn, and if you hit the creature your attack is a critical hit.

Max 1 creature setup. Maybe extend duration. But 1 use (just allow setup 1 minute in advance)

9: Perfect Disguise
Your checks with disguise kits are always natural 20s. Your bluff checks to pretend to be someone else are always natural 20s. You are aware if magic that attempts to determine if you are lying, and can determine if it thinks you are lying. Magic that reads your mind while in disguise picks up thoughts reasonable for your disguise, not your true thoughts.

13: Poison
You are immune to poison and the poisoned condition. You can create injested (drink or food) and contact (1 minute) poisons that deal your double your sneak attack damage dice (non-combat). You can coat your weapons in similar poisons as a bonus action, which make your sneak attack damage be poison damage and deal d8s. If they deliver a critical hit, the target must save or become poisoned (repeat save each round).

17: Death
The first time you damage a creature subject to Setup they must save or take d12 sneak attack dice and be stunned for a turn. Creatures you reduce to 0 HP die and cannot be resurrected, even by a wish.

[deljzc]

Stealthscout, I like most of the ideas but that subclass is currently bloated with multiple things on every level and would need to be slimmed down and streamlined.

How about the following structure. There are holes and unfinished parts but it is an idea at least.

Assassin's Arsenal
At 3rd level, an assassin focuses in on their toolset and arsenal. You gain a rank in an assassin's arsenals of your choice: poison, chameleon, or ghosts. You get an additional rank to place in either the same or another arsenal of your choice at 9th, 13th, and 17th level. The DC for your arsenal ability is equal to 8+ your proficiency bonus + your intelligence modifier.

Poison Arsenal
At 1st rank, you gain proficiency with the poisoner's kit and may spend a bonus action to apply a dose of poison to either a weapon or a piece of ammunition.

In addition, as part of a long rest, you create a number of poison doses equal to your proficiency bonus. They remain potent for 24 hours, or for 1 minute after being applied and deal 1d8 poison damage on a failed Constitution save. This damage increases to 2d8 at 13th level, and 4d8 at 17th.

At 2nd rank, you begin adapting your poisons to your targets. When you create your poisons at the end of a long rest, you may choose which save is used to avoid the damage and a creature type. When damaging creatures of that type with the poison, ignore poison resistance and treat poison immunity as a resistance.

At 3rd rank, your poisons are vicious and effective. You may choose two creature types instead of one, for each dose of poison, and when the poison is ingested, you may add your sneak attack damage to the damage roll.

Chameleon Arsenal
At 1st rank, you gain proficiency in disguise kits. You gain a tool proficency and second identity similar to the UA changeling.

At 2nd rank, your disguises and intentions are hard to see through even with magic. You have advantage on saves against spells and effects that tries to read your intentions, thoughts, identity etc.

At 3rd rank, no clue???

Ghost Arsenal
At 1st rank, you can use your cunning action to either throw smoke bombs?, Sleep powder, or hide.

At 2nd rank, arrange your crime scenes to show what you want. It takes an investigation check to notice that the scene is modified.

At 3rd rank, some kind of ninja level sneak? Invisibility a few times a long rest as cunning action?

Established Outcome
Starting at 9th, you become a master of deciding the fate of others. By spending an hour planning and making a Intelligence (investigation) check with the DC being equal to the highest challenge rating of a hostile creature in the combat + 10, you can set the initiative rolls of a number of participants in the encounter up to a maximum equal to your intelligence (investigation) modifier. Any friendly creature will have advantage on their first attack of the combat. Once you used this feature, you need to finish a long rest before using it again.

Eternal Sleep
At 17th level, you can prevent souls to return once they died. As a reaction when a creature dies, you may steal a part of the dead creature's soul locked in one of their items. The DM can either give you a trinket or roll on the trinket list in the PHB, to decide the nature of the container. A creature affected by this is prevented from being resurrected in any way, even for spells like speak with the dead, without having the trinket at hand. Breaking the trinket removes the effect and returns the soul to the body. You can at most have a number of trinkets equal to your intelligence modifier. Once you have that many trinkets, you need to break one or more before you can get new ones.

Once you used this feature, you must finish a long rest before you can do so again.

Edits:
My personal highlights so far from this thread in no specific order; alterable poisons, some kind of protection against mindreading and forced truth abilities etc, preventing resurrection magic(an assassin in a world with healing magic is otherwise rather failing), planned ambushes, sleep dust, smoke bombs, and cover stories. It is a bit all over but some parts feel more as choices while others are more obligatory to the whole sub-class. It could work like a set of battle master options or ranked choices like storm herald, since it is to much to just gain all of it.

I like it. Lots of stuff to work with here. Lots of options for assassin as a class both good and evil. Obviously it needs cleaned up, playtested, balanced but those are some very good ideas.

[Kane0]

Ooh foiling resurrection is a great ribbon, i like that

[Stealthscout]

Deljcz - Thank you. I also like some of your ideas but shy away from a multiple-choice build. 'Ghost' and 'Chameleon' skills are covered by other classes in various forms. Assassin needs to be that alpha striker without breaking the game or being a lone wolf by definition.

I agree with some recent posts that sneak attack dice could be increased but the danger there is making this a character that takes down one creature every turn. Again, you get a lone wolf or worse a one person party. Stick to d8s at most or go for consistency and re-roll 1s and 2s. Still better, but not killing one creature every time unless you are much higher level than it.

How about this for the 'kill strike' ability: Once per short rest you can turn a sneak attack into a killing stroke. This is only possible if all of the following conditions are met:

• the target is not killed outright by your strike but will still have more HP than if you used this ability
• you either a) were successfully hidden from the target for at least 3 rounds before your turn starts or b) successfully make a deception check against their intuition skill as a bonus action
• you are making a melee weapon attack

A killing stroke reduces the target to 2 HP per hit die with no bonus for constitution. The reduction of HP is applied before any poison effects are resolved.

Good - For low HD targets you could do a bonus action attack with a dagger to outright kill the target about 50% of the time or just do a fly-by attack and let a poison finish your job. Party friendly because anyone in the party will want to down your mark ASAP and you won't use it for anyone but the BBEG. Fluff-friendly as you are 'stalking' your target for the kill without too much effort.

Bad - Still running into problems with solo creatures. At least 1/short rest is controlled and 'bursty'. This could still feel uninspiring most of the time and drive the party to working in a certain style (pointing at you, darkstalker).

[Vogie]

I like the idea of altering the SA dice.

Perhaps lean into the front-loaded burst, a la gloom stalker. Perhaps add proficiency to initiative (increasing the likelihood that they'll get high up there without requiring the alert feat), and having your SA dice turn into d8s on your first turn.

Actually, we could also take a page from the Warlock handbook, allowing an assassin to have an "Assassin's mark", increasing your crit range and upgrading your SA dice to d8s on that target once per rest. Unlike a Hunter's Mark or a Hexblade's curse, though, an assassin just marks their target, until they mark another one.

Then, your later features could piggyback on said mark. For example, if the Assassin has great disguises or whatnot, their mark can't distinguish it.


EDIT: WAIT - instead of increasing the SA damage by a strict amount, from d6s to d8s or rerolling 1s &2s... what if instead, the Sneak attack Dice change to the Target's Hit Dice?

That way, the damage scales with the size of the creature. Yes, that means those poor players must invest in more dice, but having the drop on something Gargantuan, and rolling a sneak attack of d12s would be delightful.

Perhaps that's a good 17th level feature

[Fnissalot]

I like the idea of altering the SA dice.

Perhaps lean into the front-loaded burst, a la gloom stalker. Perhaps add proficiency to initiative (increasing the likelihood that they'll get high up there without requiring the alert feat), and having your SA dice turn into d8s on your first turn.

Actually, we could also take a page from the Warlock handbook, allowing an assassin to have an "Assassin's mark", increasing your crit range and upgrading your SA dice to d8s on that target once per rest. Unlike a Hunter's Mark or a Hexblade's curse, though, an assassin just marks their target, until they mark another one.

Then, your later features could piggyback on said mark. For example, if the Assassin has great disguises or whatnot, their mark can't distinguish it.

Building all of the cool things talked about in this thread to be focused on the mark would be cool.

At level 3, you can spend a minute watching a target to mark them. When you roll 19 to hit, you may add half of your sneak attack dice to the damage. It lasts for 24 hours. Your mark have disadvangtage on seeing through your deception and disguises.

At 3rd, you also get the same proficiencies.

At 9th level, your jobs and marks take precaution to the magical problems you might encounter in your line of work. When your mark dies, you may use your reaction to take something from them to prevent them from being resurrected etc.

At 13th, you may ignore your marks resistances when dealing damage to them and may choose what they roll when they roll initative.

At 17th, your sneak attack dice becomes d10s instead of d6s versus your mark.

Edited the level 3 and 17 abilities

[FabulousFizban]

Assassinate: If the assassin sneak attacks an enemy whose CR is 1/3 the Rogue's level or less, the enemy is slain.

[MrStabby]

I like the idea of altering the SA dice.

Perhaps lean into the front-loaded burst, a la gloom stalker. Perhaps add proficiency to initiative (increasing the likelihood that they'll get high up there without requiring the alert feat), and having your SA dice turn into d8s on your first turn.

Actually, we could also take a page from the Warlock handbook, allowing an assassin to have an "Assassin's mark", increasing your crit range and upgrading your SA dice to d8s on that target once per rest. Unlike a Hunter's Mark or a Hexblade's curse, though, an assassin just marks their target, until they mark another one.

Then, your later features could piggyback on said mark. For example, if the Assassin has great disguises or whatnot, their mark can't distinguish it.


EDIT: WAIT - instead of increasing the SA damage by a strict amount, from d6s to d8s or rerolling 1s &2s... what if instead, the Sneak attack Dice change to the Target's Hit Dice?

That way, the damage scales with the size of the creature. Yes, that means those poor players must invest in more dice, but having the drop on something Gargantuan, and rolling a sneak attack of d12s would be delightful.

Perhaps that's a good 17th level feature

So some of this I like, some I don't.

Assassins mark - in principal I like it, although I would design it differently. I think I would go for it giving the extra attack feature. With the limits to sneak attack and rogue base not doing too much damage it would be a nice boost without being overwhelming. A big benefit being the second chance to hit with your sneak attack dice would mean that it would do more to raise your average damage than your maximum damage - a more reliable sneak attack. It also then has less overlap with other other class features.

As for changing the sneak attack die to that of the target... it is very cool but I don't think of it as being a reall assassin ability, but rather a kind of big game hunter ability. I would expect this kind of thing on a ranger subclass. Also... its a bit much when you are doing d20's against an ancient dragon (or it lowering your damage vs things like a fairy dragon).

[Yakk]

Actually, we could also take a page from the Warlock handbook, allowing an assassin to have an "Assassin's mark", increasing your crit range and upgrading your SA dice to d8s on that target once per rest. Unlike a Hunter's Mark or a Hexblade's curse, though, an assassin just marks their target, until they mark another one.

But we can do this without a resource. If applying a Mark required an Action, its cost in combat is high, but its cost outside of combat is low.

This rolls into the "enter combat and kill something quick" ambush without requiring surprise.

If we balance it so that using it in combat isn't a horrible idea (Mark + Attack should do equal or greater damage than Attack + Attack), it becomes a really strong ambush ability. It isn't a no-brainer, because using it on a creature that might be dead before your next turn (or that two sneak attacks would be overkill on) is a bad plan.

And it fits the Rogue class "no resource tracking" meta.

[w15p]

While I have read it all, it has been over the course of several days and cannot place this comment in context at a "level X ability" but while I like all the discussion on poison, I feel like poison is a flavor of assassin. Another could be a disabling/chi-blocking (yes, ATLA)/incapacitating strike with a contested ?Con? check against ??Cha/Dex?? (looking for force of Will here, Cha is probably closest) + proficiencyBonus, and another could be the SA dice bump -- I also understand that we are trying to avoid sub-sub-classes, but look at Eldritch Invocations for warlock, maybe split into choices at level bumps? (though that leads to the 3.5 hell of feat trees...).

For the Disabling Strike option above, on a failure, the target is incapacitated , which also ties in with not being a lone wolf solo character, but rather setting up the rest of the party for success.

[Kane0]

For the Disabling Strike option above, on a failure, the target is incapacitated , which also ties in with not being a lone wolf solo character, but rather setting up the rest of the party for success.

Could just be nice and simple, being able to KO with ranged weapons instead of just melee.

But that might suit a bounty hunter type subclass (fighter, ranger, rogue) better.

[Nhorianscum]

I actually really like the assasin shell, as a solo or heavy intrigue shell it's fine and... rouge is rouge.

The 3 and 17 are... fine, they're very 5e but they're fine.

For our 9 and 13 these are... nice ribbons that have a lot of very fun uses and abuses but assuming we want to push up the power of the class we need more than a ribbon.

9: Ribbon remains unchanged.

Additional feature: "Limiting DM fiat"

-On the first round of combat if you would roll an attack with advantage on a creature you may instead chose to roll as if that creature was suprised instead. You may use this feature a number of times equal to your dexterity modifier per long rest.

Is it a guaranteed crit? Yes. This is a swing for 10d6+2d8+dex 49 damage. With a way of double triggering sneak on a single target we hit 98 damage. With poison or booming/green flame blade we hit 112-130 damage. This is an instant kill 2/day on hill giant tier foes at 9th level fully optimized if we... play assasiny.

More assassiny play can reward our player with true suprise rounds and setting up double sneak is still tricky without party support. We're also not pushing the upper bounds of damage here.

13: Ribbon is fine, we leave it be and add...

Additional feature: "Code of conduct"

-Chose a domain or land. You may cast a number of spells equal to your wisdom modifier, of a level equal to your Wisdom Modifier-1 or lower from this list per long rest at their lowest level. You may not cast any given spell more than once per long rest. Wisdom is used for spell save/to hit/etc.

The fluff here is progressing past simple killing via some ideal, faith, or simple connection to a place or people. We're treating these as "spells" but can fluff them into prepared tricks, learned skills, magical trinkets or w/e. The mechanics are flexible and reward investment so it's a fun build around that allows for... whatever the player envisions their assasin as.

The casting is extremely limited and MAD to reflect the power of "being able to spells". It's definitely weaker than UMD or 1/3 casting off the wiz list. Still a bonkers upgrade.

Wisdom was chosen over int to avoid amulet of int cheesing and to not step on AT's shoes.

----------

Not a great fix, please be gentle.

[Stealthscout]

-On the first round of combat if you would roll an attack with advantage on a creature you may instead chose to roll as if that creature was suprised instead. You may use this feature a number of times equal to your dexterity modifier per long rest.

Is it a guaranteed crit? Yes. This is a swing for 10d6+2d8+dex 49 damage. With a way of double triggering sneak on a single target we hit 98 damage. With poison or booming/green flame blade we hit 112-130 damage. This is an instant kill 2/day on hill giant tier foes at 9th level fully optimized if we... play assasiny.

You know, I really like that. Quick and to the point while still working with precidents. I also like the fact that you don't have an implied Alert feat tax (though still advisable). It also allows you to play a black widow type that backstabs someone in the front while flirting or passing by on the street.

Personally, I would still put this at 3rd level because it is so critical to the build. Which means you need something at 9th...

-Chose a domain or land. You may cast a number of spells equal to your wisdom modifier, of a level equal to your Wisdom Modifier-1 or lower from this list per long rest at their lowest level...

Still being kind, but nope. You could do this through multiclassing for sure but shouldn't be part of an assassin build because it pulls away from the raw skill and makes yet another spellslinger class when there is already one for rogues.

I could shamelessly take from your idea and simply remove some of my more complex ideas from before and end up with this (without fully detailing mechanics):

3rd:
Keep current plus:

• Turn a sneak attack into a critical on the first round of combat regardless of situation X times per long rest (X= prof bonus or dex mod?)
• Apply poison as a bonus action

9th:
Use deception to have a 'kill in plain sight'
Better nonmagical disguise, quick disguise ability
Innate protection from lying detection (see earlier post)

13th:
Innate 'warping' of divinations linked to a kill using your 3rd level ability (see earlier post)
Ability to prevent resurrection and speak with dead

17th:
Keep death strike as-is.
Allow the new 3rd level ability to occur outside of round 1, but only once per creature per fight


End result is someone who is all about the damage stacking but has some rider abilities that are critical to survive in a magical world when they should apply. You are a terror when targeting solo creatures even of your level (though not guaranteed kills) but would need a PC party to help with large complexes (dungeons) or with mobs (one failed roll away every combat).

[Man_Over_Game]

I've been pretty busy this week, but I finally got around to tally everything up. The priority categories are:

1. Damage/Burst (52)
2. Poison (51)
3. Disguises (20)
4. Versatile Toolkit (18)
5. Conditions (15)
6. Stealth (13)

Just an FYI, I had to eyeball some of these, as very few posts made their priorities very clear, but it's very obvious that Poison and Burst Damage are the most important components to the ideal Assassin.

[HPisBS]

I've been pretty busy this week, but I finally got around to tally everything up. The priority categories are:

1. Damage/Burst (52)
2. Poison (51)
3. Disguises (20)
4. Versatile Toolkit (18)
5. Conditions (15)
6. Stealth (13)

Just an FYI, I had to eyeball some of these, as very few posts made their priorities very clear, but it's very obvious that Poison and Burst Damage are the most important components to the ideal Assassin.

Dang, I was late.

I'd have said

1 - Damage/Burst
2 - Stealth
3 - Poison
4 - Disguises
5 - Conditions
6 - Versatile Toolkit

[Man_Over_Game]

Dang, I was late.

I'd have said

1 - Damage/Burst
2 - Stealth
3 - Poison
4 - Disguises
5 - Conditions
6 - Versatile Toolkit

After taking your votes, the only thing that changes is putting Stealth and Conditions tied for last place. I had made a small typo with my original summing formula (Should be VoteNum-6, was VoteNum-5), causing the totals to be:

Burst/Damage: 69
Poison: 67
Disguises: 29
Tools: 23
Stealth/Conditions: 22

Although, after thinking about it, part of the problem is that a lot of people who said they wanted more damage were also talking about maintaining the Assassinate mechanics the same (which require stealth), and removing the stealth focus from the Assassin would probably be kinda difficult to do and still keep the same feeling.

[Nhorianscum]

You know, I really like that. Quick and to the point while still working with precidents. I also like the fact that you don't have an implied Alert feat tax (though still advisable). It also allows you to play a black widow type that backstabs someone in the front while flirting or passing by on the street.

Personally, I would still put this at 3rd level because it is so critical to the build. Which means you need something at 9th...




Still being kind, but nope. You could do this through multiclassing for sure but shouldn't be part of an assassin build because it pulls away from the raw skill and makes yet another spellslinger class when there is already one for rogues.

I could shamelessly take from your idea and simply remove some of my more complex ideas from before and end up with this (without fully detailing mechanics):

3rd:
Keep current plus:

• Turn a sneak attack into a critical on the first round of combat regardless of situation X times per long rest (X= prof bonus or dex mod?)
• Apply poison as a bonus action

9th:
Use deception to have a 'kill in plain sight'
Better nonmagical disguise, quick disguise ability
Innate protection from lying detection (see earlier post)

13th:
Innate 'warping' of divinations linked to a kill using your 3rd level ability (see earlier post)
Ability to prevent resurrection and speak with dead

17th:
Keep death strike as-is.
Allow the new 3rd level ability to occur outside of round 1, but only once per creature per fight


End result is someone who is all about the damage stacking but has some rider abilities that are critical to survive in a magical world when they should apply. You are a terror when targeting solo creatures even of your level (though not guaranteed kills) but would need a PC party to help with large complexes (dungeons) or with mobs (one failed roll away every combat).

Glad you liked some of it.

The casting is probably an impossible sell but some form of SLA was all I could think of as a "band aid" for the missing peices of the assasin kit.

-------------

The 9 was at 9 to dissuade dipping and to allow fiat in tier 1 where an unoptimized SA + offhand crit just one rounds everything. (27 average at 3 is just wild.)