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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Amechra's Avatar

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    Default Late Night Brainstorm - A Half-Caster Bard

    So, it's 2:30 AM here as I write this, and I can't sleep. What I can do, however, is complain about the Bard. Or, rather, three specific things that rub me the wrong way:

    1) I'm annoyed that they're the only class that only gets three subclass levels. I feel that that's too few - Bards end up a little too similar for my tastes.
    2) Magical Secrets on a full-caster was a mistake. It'd be fine if they could only take spells from other full-casters, but instead they get to snipe the unique spells off of the Paladin and Ranger spell lists a full tier early. It'd be a lot saner if the Bard was a half-caster.
    3) I'm annoyed by the existence of the College of Eloquence, because it has a few features that I think all Bards should get. I have a similar gripe with the College of Swords, but to a much smaller degree.

    So I thought... why not change those pain points?

    The Big Change: Bards are Artificer-Style Half-Casters
    OK, sure, they're Charisma based instead of Intelligence based, they cast from the Bard list instead of the Artificer one, and they need an instrument instead of artificer's tools... but otherwise? They have the Artificer spell slot progression, and Charisma + half level spells known (Magical Secrets really helps out here). Glibness poses a problem, because Bards should be able to cast one of their iconic spells, but I don't want Warlocks to get access to it earlier than they already do.

    Making Up For The Loss
    To make up for the fact that they aren't full-casters anymore, Bards need some more class features. My current thoughts are as follows:

    1st Level: Bardic Inspiration gives you 1+Cha uses.

    3rd Level: All Bardic Colleges get a general power boost at 3rd, to reflect that they're now going to be one of the primary sources of power for the Bard.

    7th Level: They get Unfailing Inspiration, from the Eloquence Bard. For anyone who doesn't have Theros, this basically means that people you inspire can't "waste" the die you gave them.

    11th Level: All Bardic Colleges get an extra feature at 11th level. Yay, now they have four subclass levels!

    15th Level: They get Infectious Inspiration, from the Eloquence Bard. Again, for anyone who doesn't have Theros, this lets you chain Bardic Inspiration off of people a few times per long rest.

    Song of Rest and Supreme Inspiration could also do with some boosts. And, if you couldn't tell, the College of Eloquence would need a serious overhaul to still fit with the class.

    Proof of Concept - Extra Features for the College of Valor

    3 :- Valiant Blow
    Whenever you spend a bonus action to grant another creature one of your Bardic Inspiration dice, you may make a melee weapon attack as part of the same action.

    11 :- Of Stout Heart
    Whenever you grant a creature one of your Bardic Inspiration dice, that creature also gains the benefits of the Heroism spell until they successfully spend that die.
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  2. - Top - End - #2
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    Old Harry MTX's Avatar

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    Default Re: Late Night Brainstorm - A Half-Caster Bard

    Your work seems very intersting, you should write the resulting class clearly so it would be more easy to see the changes. I think that Valiant Blow is a bit too OP, at least for a 3rd level feature, i will change it in something like "You can make an additional weapon attack spending a use of Bardic Inspiration" and i will move it at a higher level, like 11th. Written as it is now you basically get an Extra Attack before a melee class, and a second Extra Attack few levels later...

    Also, if you want to see a Bard's variant that solves the problems you raised, take a look here. ^^
    Last edited by Old Harry MTX; 2020-07-31 at 03:30 AM.

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    Amechra's Avatar

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    Default Re: Late Night Brainstorm - A Half-Caster Bard

    Quote Originally Posted by Old Harry MTX View Post
    Your work seems very intersting, you should write the resulting class clearly so it would be more easy to see the changes. I think that Valiant Blow is a bit too OP, at least for a 3rd level feature, i will change it in something like "You can make an additional weapon attack spending a use of Bardic Inspiration" and i will move it at a higher level, like 11th. Written as it is now you basically get an Extra Attack before a melee class, and a second Extra Attack few levels later...
    This was mostly a brainstorm session - like I said, it was 2am, and it seemed really reasonable to just vomit my thoughts onto the forums. Valiant Blow does look problematic in the light of day, I agree.

    Also, if you want to see a Bard's variant that solves the problems you raised, take a look here. ^^
    I have seen your Rituals + Cantrips Bard, and I don't think it solves my particular issues. It still lets you steal spells from the Paladin and Ranger spell lists a tier early, it doesn't add any more subclass levels, and it doesn't really make you any better at Bardic Inspiration.
    Last edited by Amechra; 2020-08-01 at 12:09 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by segtrfyhtfgj View Post
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    MindFlayer

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    Default Re: Late Night Brainstorm - A Half-Caster Bard

    Not telling you to do this, but when I had a stab at a half caster bard there were a few things I played around with:

    1) Can concentrate on two bard spells at once. Yes, a massive power boost (I think it was a candidate for level 11. On a half caster its a bit less over the top)

    2) Valor style/EK style cast spell as an action make an attack as a bonus action. The bard spell list is still like a caster and without a way to weave spell and sword together your turn is either a lackluster spellcast or lackluster attack.

    3) Arcane recovery. So your spell levels might be capped but this gives an option for keeping casting through the day

    4) Cast a spell with a single creature as a target as a bonus action if you hit them with a melee attack

    5) Being able to use a perform skill or slight of hand for a feint or a distraction in combat


    I think this is one of the more open projects - valor bard shows that two attacks, martial weapon proficiencies and armour are not (too) overpowered on a full caster. It does mean that the martial side can withstand some pretty serious buffing.

    I would also like to see earlier magical secrets as well - say level 2. This makes it harder to dip for any other class than the class that would give that spell whilst still letting the bard be really really flexible. MS is a bit less powerful when you have fewer spell slots to use it with.

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    Grod_The_Giant's Avatar

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    Default Re: Late Night Brainstorm - A Half-Caster Bard

    I think you definitely need a lot more to make up for the lost casting--an extra inspiration die really doesn't feel like enough. Especially before you get Bardic Inspiration, when you're short on both spell slots and inspiration dice. Maybe go for a Monk style "one die per class level, refill on a short rest, high-level abilities costing multiple dice" paradigm?
    Last edited by Grod_The_Giant; 2020-08-06 at 08:30 PM.
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