New OOTS products from CafePress
New OOTS t-shirts, ornaments, mugs, bags, and more
Results 1 to 17 of 17
  1. - Top - End - #1
    Pixie in the Playground
    Join Date
    Oct 2017

    Default Magus (Chelish Azmodean) Build

    Speaking with the DM we've shelved the idea I had planned for a new PC (as being a struggle to integrate with the party) and have settled on two options (the other is a Wildshape frontline Druid).

    The concept is a Chelish "Knight" type, a Magus who is LE in a "Strong should rule" sort of way. He's not a crazy devil worshiper ("Do you worship your King? Chelaxia is a principality of hell, they're just part of the establishment") and is very low-key on anything Evil of Devil based; he's more "corporate evil" in that he will try to see if his people can come up with a solution (it may have a cost - I'm just the middle-man here).

    I've had a look at a couple guides and previous build ideas. I'm not looking to build something obscene but I would like it to be optimal enough to cope in a party with three primary casters while being able to share front line duties with a twf fighter.

    I was thinking Half Elf Hexcrafter. He's 20pt buy, level 13, about half or a quarter wbl (DM initially suggested I could have NPC equipment).

    With racial mods and level advancements I was thinking
    Int 18, Str 16, Dex/Con/Cha 12, Wis 10 (1 advancement left over to put in Str or Int)
    As a Half Elf I'll take Dual Minded Racial, I'm not sure whether to swap Fey Thoughts for Multitalented. I'll be taking Elf FCB for the extra Arcana.

    9 feats (in no particular order): Big Game Hunter (as we are playing Runelords), Imp Crit, Aerial Roll, Imp Init, Imp Familiar (Consular Imp), Dimensional Agility, Intensify MM, Crit Focus, Authoritative MM

    Am I missing something obvious or stupidly including something I shouldn't?

    6 Arcana: Familiar, Accurate Strike, Lingering Pain ... then not sure Spell Scars? Wand Wielder? Spell blending? More Hexes?

    Hexes (1+): Really not sure here. As this character is starting at 13th level I can overland flight so don't need the flight hex. We're pretty end game so some of the fun utility stuff is less relevant. To be useful I want something that would be better than a full-round attack/spellstrike thing. Looks to me like lots of hexes are save or die, so I expect that the bad guys will make the save. Shortlist is: Agony, Retribution, Evil Eye, Withering; but I would like the option to have something I would get use of frequently out of combat.

    Finally, equipment wise:
    * I would like to know opinions on the clawhand shield, casters can use it and cast somatic spells, should this work with spell combat? (I have not posted enough to be allowed to post links, sorz like)
    * Ideally I would like Mithral full plate of speed, but reckon I will have the money for Mithral Folding plate or Mithral +2 Plate.
    * I can't see past a scimitar as a weapon, either as high a + bonus as possible and vary with pool, or go with spell storing and/or heartseeker?

    That was really long, if you've read this far you deserve a cookie.

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Kurald Galain's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jun 2007

    Default Re: Magus (Chelish Azmodean) Build

    Looks solid, but as a frontliner you should prioritize Str over Int. And 18 str is pretty low for level 13; I'd expect something like 17 base +2 racial +3 levelups +4 belt = 26.

    You probably don't need wand wielder at this level; Spell Blending is always a solid pick. There are a couple of hexes that aren't a standard action, so they can be used alongside spell combat; I suggest you look into Gift of Consumption, and Iceplant.

    "To use [the spell combat] ability, the magus must have one hand free (even if the spell being cast does not have somatic components)." So no clawhand shield.

    Also, guide in my sig.
    Guide to the Magus, the Pathfinder Gish class.

    "I would really like to see a game made by Obryn, Kurald Galain, and Knaight from these forums. I'm not joking one bit. I would buy the hell out of that." -- ChubbyRain
    Crystal Shard Studios - Freeware games designed by Kurald and others!

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Seto's Avatar

    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    Paris, France
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Magus (Chelish Azmodean) Build

    Looks really good to me. As far as spell selection, since there's already 3 primary casters in your party, they'll be more versatile and have more utility than you. As a Magus, since you can cast AND full attack, you can be of service for those spells that other people don't want to cast as a standard action (like, you can buff with Haste while other casters are casting battlefield control and debuffs - you should coordinate with them to see what kind of spells they like to cast). But since your party will not rely on you to be the main caster, I'd advise you to focus on what the Magus does best: nova, nova, nova and rack up the damage and mobility with all those delicious spell slots.
    Avatar by Mr_Saturn
    ______________________
    • Kids, watch Buffy.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bard1cKnowledge
    Charisma, it makes the difference between "Oh hey, it's this guy!" And "oh hey it's this guy."
    My True Neutral Handbook, a resource for creating and playing TN characters.

    Check out my extended signature and the "Gitp regulars as..." that I've been honored with!

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Pixie in the Playground
    Join Date
    Oct 2017

    Default Re: Magus (Chelish Azmodean) Build

    Kurald, thanks for the advice. Stats are pre-equipment, but I could swap Int and Str. I don't think I can push Str that high though without dropping con/dex/cha which are already low @12. Great tips on the Hexes, I hadn't seen either of them before. Not sure between the free endure elements + AC (I like having free endure elements as it comes up a lot in our games, but should I be focusing on Displacement/Mirror Image instead of AC?) and the forcing fort save (fighting lots of giants they tend to have a good fort save - but I misread first, I don't have to fail a fort save, just have an immediate action to spend).

    Seto, my biggest worry about the character is that my other possible character, Druid, in Tiger form would have 5 pounce attacks at +15 dealing 2d6+6 as an "all day every day" option along with DR and ER from planar wildshape. In contrast the Magus is +14/+9 and d6+5 - assuming +5 weapon (with pool) he's on +17/+17/+12 and 2d6+10 - but at that item price the Druid can use a beast talisman to give himself a further +7 attack/damage on all his attacks. The Druid doesn't need to worry about pool points running out, has more spells (and can use them as his buffs last for hours/whole day) and (reincarnate Druid) can auto-respawn once a week.

    Question about the imp: if I have UMD then the imp gets UMD so he could have a +15 on casting from a wand. Could the imp use a wand to cast shield on my character (range is personal but use share spells feature?).

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Pixie in the Playground
    Join Date
    Oct 2017

    Default Re: Magus (Chelish Azmodean) Build

    Feats wise I'm querying
    Authoritative spell: I like it, it fits in well, I love the idea of firing off magic missiles and forcing all the NPCs to stay put (or the wizard not to cast) but I don't know that I have the spell slots for it.
    Dimensional Agility: When used this feat is great, but I can use it maybe once or twice a day and it costs me the use of a different spell from that level.

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Kurald Galain's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jun 2007

    Default Re: Magus (Chelish Azmodean) Build

    Quote Originally Posted by fof3 View Post
    In contrast the Magus is +14/+9 and d6+5 - assuming +5 weapon (with pool) he's on +17/+17/+12 and 2d6+10
    Beast Talisman works only five minutes after you wild shape (and wild shape is more limited than your pool) and notably doesn't pierce DR. And it uses slots up to four, not four and up; so no +7/+7 for him.

    Anyway, cast Frostbite and your damage becomes 3d6+23; I'm pretty sure a Magus can outdamage a druid if he puts his mind to it. And yeah, you definitely want Dimensional Agility; 800' pounce is amazing.
    Last edited by Kurald Galain; 2020-08-01 at 07:50 AM.
    Guide to the Magus, the Pathfinder Gish class.

    "I would really like to see a game made by Obryn, Kurald Galain, and Knaight from these forums. I'm not joking one bit. I would buy the hell out of that." -- ChubbyRain
    Crystal Shard Studios - Freeware games designed by Kurald and others!

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Seto's Avatar

    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    Paris, France
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Magus (Chelish Azmodean) Build

    Yeah, Dimensional Agility is incredible for the Magus. I was nodding in unmitigated approval when I saw it in your list.
    Don't be too worried about spell slots. With a decent intelligence score + Improved Spell Recall, you have more than enough slots to last you a typical day without running out, unless you're grinding through a pretty intense dungeon. Running out of arcane points is more frequent, but even then you can usually avoid it with smart resource management.
    Last edited by Seto; 2020-08-01 at 08:22 AM.

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Pixie in the Playground
    Join Date
    Oct 2017

    Default Re: Magus (Chelish Azmodean) Build

    Kurald, I had read "while assuming beast form" differently, in that I thought it meant "when you are in beast form" not "when you transform in beast form" (the +7 is that a 4th level spell gives +8/+8 but doesn't stack with GMF).

    Seto, he won't have greater spell recall unless I nix the Hexcrafter archetype. With an Int of 18 he would have one extra spell levels 1-4 but without G spell recall DD is really expensive (and is still really expensive for dodd leveled spells.

    Both good points thoughbut.

    I'm looking at this previous thread
    https://forums.giantitp.com/showthre...odrager-advice

    As my other thought was the same character concept but as Crossblood Arcane/Destined Bloodrager.

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Pixie in the Playground
    Join Date
    Oct 2017

    Default Re: Magus (Chelish Azmodean) Build

    Cheers Seto,

    Based on your advice I have decided to go vanilla Magus. I do really like Gift of Consumption (and curse spells) but I think I like imp Spell Recall better.

  10. - Top - End - #10
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Seto's Avatar

    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    Paris, France
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Magus (Chelish Azmodean) Build

    Yeah, Improved Spell Recall is amazing for both versatility (preparing that rare spell you need in a pinch) and staying power (more spell slots). I hope you enjoy playing your Magus! Don't hesitate to let us know how it goes ;)
    Avatar by Mr_Saturn
    ______________________
    • Kids, watch Buffy.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bard1cKnowledge
    Charisma, it makes the difference between "Oh hey, it's this guy!" And "oh hey it's this guy."
    My True Neutral Handbook, a resource for creating and playing TN characters.

    Check out my extended signature and the "Gitp regulars as..." that I've been honored with!

  11. - Top - End - #11
    Pixie in the Playground
    Join Date
    Oct 2017

    Default Re: Magus (Chelish Azmodean) Build

    Quote Originally Posted by Kurald Galain View Post
    Also, guide in my sig.
    Have done, I should be clear - my first move was to go through the guide and select 90% of everything that was sky blue!
    The guide is much appreciated, though I don't think I shall read through all the pages of comments.

  12. - Top - End - #12
    Pixie in the Playground
    Join Date
    Oct 2017

    Default Re: Magus (Chelish Azmodean) Build

    Quote Originally Posted by Seto View Post
    Don't hesitate to let us know how it goes ;)
    First session yesterday, with a character 90% complete (which was interesting). For some reason the party took to him much better than my previous character, a Paladin who was of the "super nice guy" variety.

  13. - Top - End - #13
    Pixie in the Playground
    Join Date
    Oct 2017

    Default Re: Magus (Chelish Azmodean) Build

    Looking at spells prepared I can see that I might just about prepare one intensified shocking grasp; realistically it's the only spell worth intensifying (it's not worth a higher level slot for Fireball to gain 3d6 or storm step to gain 1d8).

    Is it really worth the feat? I guess at least with imp spell recall I can recall that spell - though IIRC metamagic does not apply, so maybe not. I might take Wanderer's fortune instead.

    I haven't played a caster since ... 1st Ed, so for the next session I am going to choose a wide range of spells and use GSR where necessary (+3 pearls of power).
    1: Frostbite (x2), Shocking Grasp (x2), Blade Lash, True Strike, Fallback Strategy
    2: Frigid Touch (x2), Mirror Image, Blade Dash, Ablative Barrier, Defending Bone
    3: Vampiric touch, Fireball, Displacement, Haste, Greater Magic Weapon
    4: Greater Invis, Dimension Door (x2), Fire Shield
    5: Overland flight, Teleport

  14. - Top - End - #14
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Seto's Avatar

    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    Paris, France
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Magus (Chelish Azmodean) Build

    Quote Originally Posted by fof3 View Post
    Looking at spells prepared I can see that I might just about prepare one intensified shocking grasp; realistically it's the only spell worth intensifying (it's not worth a higher level slot for Fireball to gain 3d6 or storm step to gain 1d8).

    Is it really worth the feat? I guess at least with imp spell recall I can recall that spell - though IIRC metamagic does not apply, so maybe not. I might take Wanderer's fortune instead.
    I'd say it's worth the feat. Metamagic does apply to spells recalled with (improved) spell recall ; you just can't apply it to spells prepared with it (the second application of ISR). So it's worth it for Shocking Grasp alone: you just have to prepare that 2nd level slot once a day, and then for 1 arcane point and a swift action each time you have access to 10d6 additional damage to your attack, which also gains +4 against metal-clad opponents. Not bad.
    Plus, I wouldn't dismiss using it on Fireball either, when you reach level 14-15. In situations when you're facing groups of enemies, it's nice to have a 15d6 burst in a 4th level slot. It's lower-level than Cone of Cold for the same amount of damage, and easier to aim at your enemies without including your allies (burst, not cone).

    I haven't played a caster since ... 1st Ed, so for the next session I am going to choose a wide range of spells and use GSR where necessary (+3 pearls of power).
    1: Frostbite (x2), Shocking Grasp (x2), Blade Lash, True Strike, Fallback Strategy
    2: Frigid Touch (x2), Mirror Image, Blade Dash, Ablative Barrier, Defending Bone
    3: Vampiric touch, Fireball, Displacement, Haste, Greater Magic Weapon
    4: Greater Invis, Dimension Door (x2), Fire Shield
    5: Overland flight, Teleport
    Sounds good. I notice you picked Fire Shield. If you want the retributive effect, I can't recommend Caustic Blood enough. It won't work against some enemies, and a smart foe might be able to turn it against your allies if you're not careful, but it's enough to dissuade most NPCs from attacking you more than once. Doesn't have Fire Shield's protection effect though.
    What arcana are you packing? Hitting against touch AC is a must, but I also personally really like the 1/day immediate metamagic. It doesn't increase casting time or spell level, which lets you hit way above your weight class (Quickening a Dimension Door or a Wall of Stone at level 15 is something no other class can do that I'm aware). Once or twice a day, when you really need it, you can stack them and nova like nobody's business, which is where the Magus shines. Quickened Empowered Maximized Caustic Blood or Cone of Cold can really carry you through some boss battles.
    Avatar by Mr_Saturn
    ______________________
    • Kids, watch Buffy.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bard1cKnowledge
    Charisma, it makes the difference between "Oh hey, it's this guy!" And "oh hey it's this guy."
    My True Neutral Handbook, a resource for creating and playing TN characters.

    Check out my extended signature and the "Gitp regulars as..." that I've been honored with!

  15. - Top - End - #15
    Pixie in the Playground
    Join Date
    Oct 2017

    Default Re: Magus (Chelish Azmodean) Build

    Thanks for the clarity on GSR - as I have edited the character several times I'll stick with Intensify then.

    I have Caustic Blood in my spells known, my choice of spells memorized for his first session include that he knows that there is a white dragon about (hence fireball and fire shield). He also has only just found out that teleport won't work to get him out of the Runeforge, which is why he has it prepared (it will be a very expensive dimension door for today).

    My final choice on Arcana were Accurate strike, Lingering Pain, Hasted Assault, Spell Scars, Critical Strike, Maximized Spell (using all my FCB from Elf for extra Arcana). I did have a good think after selecting my list how many have Pool cost and how many are only once a day. Spell Scars and Critical Strike are probably sub-optimal compared with Empowered. I liked the look of devoted blade and would have taken it in a shot if my character were good, but being LE in this campaign I'd be making the blade Axiomatic and hoping that I the bad guys are chaotic (no way to tell - but in Runelords lots of the bag guys are LE). For one pool it's a good choice I think - just not for me (Edit: it has occurred to me that there are other choices at that level and by the time you can re-dip at that level Bane is on offer, which is probably better. That said your classic good character could spend two pool points to gain +4d6 +2, which is probably worth it in a boss fight).
    Last edited by fof3; 2020-08-09 at 07:14 AM.

  16. - Top - End - #16
    Pixie in the Playground
    Join Date
    Oct 2017

    Default Re: Magus (Chelish Azmodean) Build

    I have a query RE Lingering pain: the damage is based on the damage of your attack (I assume not your full attack) and includes spellstrike damage. What about if you discharge a stored spell from your sword? Would that count towards the damage?

  17. - Top - End - #17
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Kurald Galain's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jun 2007

    Default Re: Magus (Chelish Azmodean) Build

    Quote Originally Posted by fof3 View Post
    I have a query RE Lingering pain: the damage is based on the damage of your attack (I assume not your full attack) and includes spellstrike damage. What about if you discharge a stored spell from your sword? Would that count towards the damage?
    No, because triggering a spell from a Spell Storing weapon is neither damage from that attack, nor a spell cast using spellstrike.

    (but even without this, Lingering Pain will usually prevent an enemy from casting, so no worries)
    Guide to the Magus, the Pathfinder Gish class.

    "I would really like to see a game made by Obryn, Kurald Galain, and Knaight from these forums. I'm not joking one bit. I would buy the hell out of that." -- ChubbyRain
    Crystal Shard Studios - Freeware games designed by Kurald and others!

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •